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Old 07-28-2012, 04:24 PM   #91
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Stored away for midnight pondering. Thanks for sharing all this info!

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Old 07-28-2012, 05:14 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Dog View Post
It has reduced leakage for many people. You would just have to try it on yours and see.

TJeepman, I don't know if HM oils make an older engine last any longer or not, I have my doubts, too, but I would need more evidence either way than a statement from a random guy in a Q&A blog that says they did some sort of test at his place of work.
Just not enough background there to go on.

Rob
I agree with you as to needing more evidence. I have read a lot about it and see no need for additional additives to what oil already contains.

Some points to ponder:
- they even have high mileage synthetic now. With all the hype about synthetics, a high mileage synthetic should be redundant.
- high mileage oils are not required to meet power train warranties, even lifetime warranties. In fact they don't generally meet the Chrysler MS 6395 spec.
- the Owners Manuals say to not use additives. The additives in high mileage oil are no different than adding an additive package claiming a higher level of protection against oil burn off and viscosity breakdown.
- there are even oil filters now with additives in them to disperse "high mileage" ingredients over the life of the filter. May as well take advantage of the market niche.

I think the oil companies created their own market with the high mileage stuff. Question is - who needs it other than the oil companies. It's comparable with designer oils, some get a great feeling and high expectations by using them.

Here's some Castrol marketing on high mileage oils, absent any supporting technical data of course: http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=7017085

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Old 07-28-2012, 06:14 PM   #93
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My 97 TJ is at 180000 miles & does not use oil between oil changes (3000 mile interval) I have been using Valvoline Max Life 10w40 & a Mopar filter since I owned it (Had 159000 when I got it)
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:19 PM   #94
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I have used Valvoline 10-30w in all of my vehicles for 38 years in hot Phoenix Arizona. I have never had a engine failure.
The worst thing that you can do is keep changing Brands, oil viscosity and or convetional to synthetic,"back and forth" engines just don't like it.
Synthetic is great for gear applications where high heat is a factor. Engines on the other hand don't like it as well, because it has a tendency to delete the TBN "TOTAL BASE NUMBER " quickly which is the ability for the oil additive package to neutralize acid. I don't recommend synthetic for engines!!!
Buy a good quality conventional brand of 10-30w and stick with it for engine longevity.
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:54 PM   #95
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I've been using conventional 10W-30 since I bought it new. I did try synthetic for about 3-4 changes a couple years ago but didn't notice a difference that justified the price. I have been using the Valvoline NextGen for the past year at least but I've used regular Valvoline, Pennzoil and Quaker State as well. It really depends on what good brand is cheapest/ on sale/ has the best mail in rebate at the time. I know there's a lot of opinions about Fram filters but I've been using them since I did my first oil change. It wasn't until recently that I had even heard of there being a problem with them. Although I don't doubt people have had issues with them along the way it seems like a lot of it is "this guy I know knew a guy who bought a car from a guy who told him about ....". I am going to try the Napa Gold on my next oil change and see if it has any affect on the noisy lifters. Here's a pic from last weekend when I did the valve cover gasket @ 119K miles.
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:03 PM   #96
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I've been using conventional 10W-30 since I bought it new. I did try synthetic for about 3-4 changes a couple years ago but didn't notice a difference that justified the price. I have been using the Valvoline NextGen for the past year at least but I've used regular Valvoline, Pennzoil and Quaker State as well. It really depends on what good brand is cheapest/ on sale/ has the best mail in rebate at the time. I know there's a lot of opinions about Fram filters but I've been using them since I did my first oil change. It wasn't until recently that I had even heard of there being a problem with them. Although I don't doubt people have had issues with them along the way it seems like a lot of it is "this guy I know knew a guy who bought a car from a guy who told him about ....". I am going to try the Napa Gold on my next oil change and see if it has any affect on the noisy lifters. Here's a pic from last weekend when I did the valve cover gasket @ 119K miles.
Yes, there are some that don't like Fram oil filters. There are some that don't like all of the other brands of filters. I have been using Fram for 50 years in my vehicles and have never had one leak or slow down oil flow, in fact I have ran all of my vehicles over 100,000 miles and never had a engine failure. I'm not about to say that Fram is the best filter out there, but they sure have performed very well in my applications.
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:06 PM   #97
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Ok so on this post I will leave the cooking oil out and be serious for once

How bout just putting in what the manufacture says??? My friend has a X5 twin turbo, very expensive and awesome truck in its own right. I would Not put conventional oil into it because that's not what the manufacture says should go in... My TJ on the other hand calls for conventional oil therefor that's what I put in. Just my 2cents I guess...
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:07 PM   #98
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I use STP blue oil filters, are those decent?
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:35 AM   #99
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@ TJeepman, I tend to agree the HM oils are probably not worth it unless you are trying to nurse a seal leak. They sometimes do help for that.

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I use STP blue oil filters, are those decent?
They scare me. Too much space between the plastic grids and the filter media in my opinion. Has had some media paper blowouts before. I don't know where that paper goes, but I don't want it in my engine. The STPs, usually, and a few other brands are this (trademarked) "ecore" design with the blowout:
2 x E-Core (shocker) , 20k+ Fram, P Classic - Pics - Bob Is The Oil Guy

I prefer Wix or Napa Gold (typically the same filter) Mopar, Purolator Classic or PureOne (or Bosch branded filters), K&N (good oil filters, IMO, but I don't like the air filters) and Mobil1 Extended Performance.
An informal set of tests I did a few years back got popular on Bobistheoilguy.com forums so I posted the results here on its own website.
Oil Filtration Comparisons From the Workbench - Home

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Old 07-29-2012, 07:49 PM   #100
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@ TJeepman, I tend to agree the HM oils are probably not worth it unless you are trying to nurse a seal leak. They sometimes do help for that.

They scare me. Too much space between the plastic grids and the filter media in my opinion. Has had some media paper blowouts before. I don't know where that paper goes, but I don't want it in my engine. The STPs, usually, and a few other brands are this (trademarked) "ecore" design with the blowout:
2 x E-Core (shocker) , 20k+ Fram, P Classic - Pics - Bob Is The Oil Guy

I prefer Wix or Napa Gold (typically the same filter) Mopar, Purolator Classic or PureOne (or Bosch branded filters), K&N (good oil filters, IMO, but I don't like the air filters) and Mobil1 Extended Performance.
An informal set of tests I did a few years back got popular on Bobistheoilguy.com forums so I posted the results here on its own website.
Oil Filtration Comparisons From the Workbench - Home

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Thank you, and its funny you mention that about the STP filter, the bottom of the filter would always have oil drips, and I never thought it was the filter. Can you get any of those other filters at Auto Zone? I think I seen K&N on the shelf.
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:46 PM   #101
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Yeah, AZ here sells K&N, Mobil 1 EP, and Bosch (which is typically just a PureOne painted black) and those are some I use. The Frams they sell, I avoid those except for the expensive XG or whatever their long life fiter is...the most expensive one (of course).
Walmart and K-mart also sells plain white Purolator Classics now for cheap, and I like those, too.

The drip may be the filter or the rubber seals the filter mount seals to the engine block with. I don't think they are hard to fix, but see if a new filter fixes the drip first, I guess.

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Old 07-30-2012, 08:42 AM   #102
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Mine is the same on plain old Rotella T5. 164000 miles.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe that is because the Diesel oils still retain a good level of ZDDP as compared to "energy conserving" motor oils for cars. I think another situation in which the ZDDP content is still adequate is for 20W-50.

In any case, I am wondering if there is any other additive that would contain more ZDDP than the STP... or am I stuck with pretty much the same thing regardless of additive?
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:52 AM   #103
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Glad it's working for you. I'm not saying it's a bad product at all, just that the ZDDP isn't showing up in significant quantities in a lab analysis. I emailed them and asked what the zinc content was so I could figure out how much to use, if any. They told me that was "proprietory" info. That ticked me off since I figure I should be able to know what I'm dumpoing in my oil, so I had it analyzed and sent the same customer representative I had talked to before, another email telling her how much was in it, just to be a smartass.
I know. So much of this is personal preference...

By the by, how much less than 1200 ppm did the STP have in it?
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:00 AM   #104
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got oil changed yesterday with Valv Synth 10w30. Has 300K warranty as long as you use it.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:30 AM   #105
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By the by, how much less than 1200 ppm did the STP have in it?
1100-something ppm. It was like 15 ounces of really thick API SJ oil in that regard. I use an ounce or two of Lucas TB Zinc Plus per six quarts SM/SN oil to boost the zinc to about 1000-1300 ppm by my calculations. Too high of ZDDP causes problems too, so that's my limit. I got it off the shelf at Advance Auto Parts in my area. A 16 oz. bottle lasts a long time. (I used to boost the ZDDP a bit in an old car I had.)
Not sure if I was helping it or hurting it by doing this, but I doubt I was hurting anything with my dosage. If I needed thicker oil I would just start with that and put in a little of this break-in additive. I doubt STP hurts anything either, but it wasn't what I wanted. I wanted as close to the original oil formulation as possible with minimun dilution of an aftermarket additive and zinc level up a little to what it used to be maybe 10 years ago for my flat tappets.

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Old 07-30-2012, 11:42 AM   #106
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I always used the golden jug Pennzoil high mileage 10W30.
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:56 AM   #107
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1100-something ppm. It was like 15 ounces of really thick API SJ oil in that regard. I use an ounce or two of Lucas TB Zinc Plus per six quarts SM/SN oil to boost the zinc to about 1000-1300 ppm by my calculations. Too high of ZDDP causes problems too, so that's my limit. I got it off the shelf at Advance Auto Parts in my area. A 16 oz. bottle lasts a long time. (I used to boost the ZDDP a bit in an old car I had.)
Not sure if I was helping it or hurting it by doing this, but I doubt I was hurting anything with my dosage. If I needed thicker oil I would just start with that and put in a little of this break-in additive. I doubt STP hurts anything either, but it wasn't what I wanted. I wanted as close to the original oil formulation as possible with minimun dilution of an aftermarket additive and zinc level up a little to what it used to be maybe 10 years ago for my flat tappets.

Rob
Aha! See I have a 2.5 which means I share it with approximately 3.6 quarts of oil. I bet the concentration is a bit higher for me. (With the additive it comes out to 4 quarts even).
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:40 AM   #108
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Aha! See I have a 2.5 which means I share it with approximately 3.6 quarts of oil. I bet the concentration is a bit higher for me. (With the additive it comes out to 4 quarts even).
Not that much, really.
If we round the ZDDP content of the STP up to 1200 ppm, and the oil you're using is 800 ppm, the total with the additive comes to about 846.1 ppm ZDDP by my calculations.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:26 PM   #109
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Trying thick oil, changed oil today with rotella 15w-40.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:04 PM   #110
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I have 95,500 miles on my TJ 4.0 w/auto and use Valvoline 10w-30w and Valvoline oil filter and my pressure is just fine and the lifters do not make any noise. I believe in using what the OEM specs call for.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:15 PM   #111
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Trying thick oil, changed oil today with rotella 15w-40.
Why would you choose an extra-heavy oil viscosity that is not factory recommended, is harder to pump, and is slower to reach all of the engine's points that need lubrication... especially when cold?

I may actually start using 5W-30 Valvoline instead of the 10W-30 I've been using for many years... its 5W weight when cold helps reduce the length of time the oil needs to reach all the nooks and crannies and it is during a cold start when the most wear occurs in an engine.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:23 PM   #112
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I have been using Valvoline 10w30 since I bought it. Saw an ad at Autozone for 10w30 Valvoline NextGen Maxlife and went with it on my last change. For 25 dollars and some change I got the oil and the Purolater Pure one filter.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:14 PM   #113
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Maybe I am opening a new can of worms... I just bought an 05 LJ with 90K and need to do the first oil change. On the OPDA thread on the other site there are some suggesting to use the Valvoline 10w-30 VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (funny, the bottle shown in the pic does not say "conventional"). Then there are 250 more pages to the thread. That's a bit of reading to wade through...
So, what are thoughts about a smart oil to keep your OPDA healthy?
That year also has the 6 speed manual. What is the best lube for that tranny?
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:16 PM   #114
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My lifters are noisier with anything thicker than 10W-30. A neighbor friend of mine runs 5W-20 on his '99 TJ to keep the same noise down. Too thin for me for this engine.
Anyone know why they would clatter related to viscosity?
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:23 PM   #115
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Maybe I am opening a new can of worms... I just bought an 05 LJ with 90K and need to do the first oil change. On the OPDA thread on the other site there are some suggesting to use the Valvoline 10w-30 VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (funny, the bottle shown in the pic does not say "conventional"). Then there are 250 more pages to the thread. That's a bit of reading to wade through...
So, what are thoughts about a smart oil to keep your OPDA healthy?
That year also has the 6 speed manual. What is the best lube for that tranny?
Two good tranny lubes include Redline MTL and Royal Purple Synchromax.

So far as that OPDA thread goes, there are some zinc fanatics over there that just drive me crazy with their wild claims. To my way of thinking, you only need extra zinc if you're driving a modified engine with stiffer valve springs and higher lift cam that creates higher than normal tappet pressures. For a stock engine, I'll continue using standard plain-vanilla Valvoline (or Castrol, Shell, Mobil, Pennzoil, etc.) 10W-30... especially since none of us who have been running those engine oils for many years are having any engine failures.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:26 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by bandman
Maybe I am opening a new can of worms... I just bought an 05 LJ with 90K and need to do the first oil change. On the OPDA thread on the other site there are some suggesting to use the Valvoline 10w-30 VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (funny, the bottle shown in the pic does not say "conventional"). Then there are 250 more pages to the thread. That's a bit of reading to wade through...
So, what are thoughts about a smart oil to keep your OPDA healthy?
That year also has the 6 speed manual. What is the best lube for that tranny?
They are looking at zinc content of oil, and yes that horse has been beaten to death. I think Jerry is right. Get something that will move quickly on start up and not strain the oil pump. Just my opinion, but 5-30 should be the oil for colder months. Higher mileage would be good to run year round. If you look at the zinc thing long enough, you will see a significant decrease in that level in modern oils. Just add a supplement like rislone and you will be fine.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:08 PM   #117
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Great information. Thank you very much. This is an awesome community!
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:57 AM   #118
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Well it may not be for everyone and is likely only delaying the inevitable. The thicker oil seems to help. My lifters were so bad, i was ready to pull the head and replace. I'd tried several different snake oils/mechanic in a bottle to no avail. I had a horrible ticking that would seem to fluctuate with the cycling of the thermostat (not sure of the correlation) and one or two that would collapse on occasion. I have a magnaflow muffler and at its worse it would sound like a Subaru WRX that thup thup thup sound. My mpg had gone to shit as well.
After putting in Rotella 15w-40, it's been almost two weeks I think. It's been a slow improvement but now no more collapses and thup thup thup. Mpg has came up, and the ticking has decreased
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:01 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford
Why would you choose an extra-heavy oil viscosity that is not factory recommended, is harder to pump, and is slower to reach all of the engine's points that need lubrication... especially when cold?

I may actually start using 5W-30 Valvoline instead of the 10W-30 I've been using for many years... its 5W weight when cold helps reduce the length of time the oil needs to reach all the nooks and crannies and it is during a cold start when the most wear occurs in an engine.
Why? Because I've tried just about everything else. The only difference between 15-40 and 10-40 is on startup once up to temp they are both acting as 40 weight. What I want to know is why does the HDEO seem to be helping? Amount of detergents, amount of zinc, amount of something else that hasn't been beat to death in the threads?
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:55 AM   #120
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...Amount of detergents, amount of zinc, amount of something else that hasn't been beat to death in the threads?
Might be a higher HTHS viscosity on the HDEO. That is the viscosity characteristic of a motor oil that usually directly controls the hot engine oil pressure, not the "40 weight" part.
Just a guess why this would make your lifters quieter. Mine run quieter on thinner oil, so who knows...?

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