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Old 03-21-2007, 05:42 PM   #31
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Bad Blue Just wondering would like to get my Jeep to do that good.Bill

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Old 03-21-2007, 06:44 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodLife View Post
Can someone explain where the power lose is. Is it in the low end torque (trying to tow something) or is it in the high end (have trouble getting to 75 or 80 MPH)? I understand the basic principle of a larger gear means more power, kind of like the larger gear on a bicycle, but how does this relate back to engine RPMs? Why do you have a lower RPM with a smaller gear?
Technically speaking the power loss is through out the whole RPM range the engine still makes exact same power as it did before its just now THE POWER TO THE WHEELS is a lot less... Its like shifting in 2nd instead of 1st to go.. then instead of 2nd shifting to 4th.. etc.. You change engine power when you get performance mods such as an intake or exhaust so you simply take power from low or high rpm and move it to another range with some minor gain unless you get a blower, higher compression pistons, stroker kit or a natural ispiration engine which revs up to above 10k rpm and its for smaller engines only, then you get more power through out the entire rpms..

It's slower because imagine racing with only 2nd gear, 4th gear and another gear lower ratio than 5th so it would be like 6th.. First of all those will be way to far apart.. when you shift to 2nd to start off you will have to scrub the clutch quite good not to fall too low in the rpm range.. then when you shift at redline 5k, now instead of your rpm range falling down to 3.5k like it would with stock gears now it would fall down to ~2.5k where there is quite less power since the gears are so extended.. Now the next shift will be just like the one before only instead of the rpms falling at 3.5k they should fall at 4k so with the extended gears they will be at around 3k which is still worse than 4k.. The basic rules of hp are higher the rpm the more hp you get so if you can rev that engine to infinite rpm you will have infinite hp at infinite rpm lol and with the right gears you are preatty much the king on the road.

If you have manual give it a shot and see what i'm talking about.. With bigger tires it may not be that dramatic but at least you will know what i'm now talking about.

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Old 03-21-2007, 09:12 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by GoodLife View Post
Can someone explain where the power lose is. Is it in the low end torque (trying to tow something) or is it in the high end (have trouble getting to 75 or 80 MPH)? I understand the basic principle of a larger gear means more power, kind of like the larger gear on a bicycle, but how does this relate back to engine RPMs? Why do you have a lower RPM with a smaller gear?
i didn't notice a difference at all in the low end but i definitely noticed a difference high end on the highway.
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Old 03-22-2007, 01:42 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ddavie View Post
4.10's with 32's and get 17 mpg.


Ok--I don't want to appear stupid but I'm new to the lift & bigger tires arena. How do I tell what gears I have? I have 32" tires and I am getting 9-10 MPG which is awful for commuting to work on occasion.
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Old 03-22-2007, 02:24 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Triple88a View Post
Technically speaking the power loss is through out the whole RPM range the engine still makes exact same power as it did before its just now THE POWER TO THE WHEELS is a lot less... Its like shifting in 2nd instead of 1st to go.. then instead of 2nd shifting to 4th.. etc.. You change engine power when you get performance mods such as an intake or exhaust so you simply take power from low or high rpm and move it to another range with some minor gain unless you get a blower, higher compression pistons, stroker kit or a natural ispiration engine which revs up to above 10k rpm and its for smaller engines only, then you get more power through out the entire rpms..

It's slower because imagine racing with only 2nd gear, 4th gear and another gear lower ratio than 5th so it would be like 6th.. First of all those will be way to far apart.. when you shift to 2nd to start off you will have to scrub the clutch quite good not to fall too low in the rpm range.. then when you shift at redline 5k, now instead of your rpm range falling down to 3.5k like it would with stock gears now it would fall down to ~2.5k where there is quite less power since the gears are so extended.. Now the next shift will be just like the one before only instead of the rpms falling at 3.5k they should fall at 4k so with the extended gears they will be at around 3k which is still worse than 4k.. The basic rules of hp are higher the rpm the more hp you get so if you can rev that engine to infinite rpm you will have infinite hp at infinite rpm lol and with the right gears you are preatty much the king on the road.

If you have manual give it a shot and see what i'm talking about.. With bigger tires it may not be that dramatic but at least you will know what i'm now talking about.
Thanks for the example. I tried it out and found a complete lack of acceleration. If I put larger tires on and it drives anywhere close to that, I'll be re-gearing quickly. If my jeep always drove like that it would bother me, but mine drives really great and I don't want that to change.


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Originally Posted by bigjeep View Post
i didn't notice a difference at all in the low end but i definitely noticed a difference high end on the highway.
Thanks. I think I am starting to understand this now.
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Old 03-22-2007, 06:27 PM   #36
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I do what i can to help I dont think it will be that bad as shifting from 2nd to 4th but it will be somewhere there.
Bigjeep dont you have to stay on the clutch more now or do you have an auto?
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Old 03-22-2007, 08:39 PM   #37
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Ok--I don't want to appear stupid but I'm new to the lift & bigger tires arena. How do I tell what gears I have? I have 32" tires and I am getting 9-10 MPG which is awful for commuting to work on occasion.
the gear ratio will be on a metal tag on the rear diff. there is a number on the top left corner and then two below it. thats the ratio.

triple, i have a manual...don't have to stay on the clutch more...are you asking if i have to downshift more? hardly ever...just once in a while i'll go back down from 6th to 5th on the highway.
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Old 03-22-2007, 09:43 PM   #38
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sweet 6th to 5th too bad mine is only a 5 speed lol maybe i should try to see if i have 6th jk lol

I ment when you take off or when you are on a trail.. you cant speed the rig too fast so you will either have to hold the clutch or it will die out. .. unless ur in 4lo..
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Old 03-23-2007, 07:29 AM   #39
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sweet 6th to 5th too bad mine is only a 5 speed lol maybe i should try to see if i have 6th jk lol

I ment when you take off or when you are on a trail.. you cant speed the rig too fast so you will either have to hold the clutch or it will die out. .. unless ur in 4lo..
i do indeed have a problem with that. sometimes the trail won't call for 4lo so i'll be going to fast...so i hold the clutch or just use 4lo or neutral...try not to stay on the clutch though...it will start to burn
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Old 03-23-2007, 02:23 PM   #40
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i do indeed have a problem with that. sometimes the trail won't call for 4lo so i'll be going to fast...so i hold the clutch or just use 4lo or neutral...try not to stay on the clutch though...it will start to burn
Ahhhh, there's nothing like burning clutch smell on the trail.
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Old 03-23-2007, 02:40 PM   #41
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Ahhhh, there's nothing like burning clutch smell on the trail.
Smoke? What's that you say? Smoke from the clutch?

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Old 03-23-2007, 02:47 PM   #42
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That sir is exactly what I was talking about. I don't know why, but I love that smell on the trail. You smell clutch and you know someone's workin hard.

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Smoke? What's that you say? Smoke from the clutch?

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Old 03-23-2007, 03:19 PM   #43
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hes full of ti I'm running 4.56 with 33's now and I'm getting between 14 and 16 mpg that's with a three speed auto
I have plenty of power going up hills

plus when I go to a 35 in. tire I don't have to regear
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Old 03-23-2007, 03:39 PM   #44
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i do indeed have a problem with that. sometimes the trail won't call for 4lo so i'll be going to fast...so i hold the clutch or just use 4lo or neutral...try not to stay on the clutch though...it will start to burn
If 4Hi is forcing you to go too fast for trail conditions, then those same trail conditions are trying to tell you that you should be in 4Lo. Period.
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Old 03-23-2007, 06:04 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by 1BLKJP View Post
Ahhhh, there's nothing like burning clutch smell on the trail.
I like the smell of rubber better though since clutch smell makes me sad while rubber smell+smoke makes me happy

Yep i barely stay on the clutch.. whenever i cant go above 5 mph i am in 4lo.
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Old 03-24-2007, 07:59 PM   #46
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jerry...is that pic really showing clutch smoke???
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Old 03-25-2007, 12:46 AM   #47
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jerry...is that pic really showing clutch smoke???
It is.
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Old 03-25-2007, 01:46 PM   #48
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It is.
so i'm not the only one that stays on the clutch??? i didn't know it could take that much abuse
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Old 03-27-2007, 05:51 AM   #49
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3.73's here, Had a 32 tooth speedo gear installed yesterday (being lazy) and Need some time to figure the true mileage.

Just to add I ran 4.56's in my Cherokee and it was a world of difference offroad.
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:14 AM   #50
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so i'm not the only one that stays on the clutch??? i didn't know it could take that much abuse
Not a good habit. One of the 1st things learned by those new to rocks is to stay away from that clutch. As long as your crawl ratio is good, it isn't a problem....

Not making any judgements on the posted photo (wasn't there).
Was that taken at the gatekeeper in Calico?

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Old 03-28-2007, 10:56 AM   #51
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so i'm not the only one that stays on the clutch??? i didn't know it could take that much abuse
It can, in fact my clutch had 167,000 miles on it when I replaced in last month and it still looked and functioned fine. I just figured it was time. However, I usually avoid slipping my clutch, that's not a good thing. Which is why I REALLY want to upgrade to an automatic asap.

And RWsJeep, yes that was right after the Gatekeeper at the opening of Doran Canyon. I don't normally smoke my clutch like that but of the 4-5 times I've gone up Doran, I nearly couldn't find the right line that day so I had a hell of a time making it up past that particular part.

Wow, the first time I went up Doran I made it in like 2 minutes. Those days are long gone, it's really dug out now.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:22 PM   #52
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...
Wow, the first time I went up Doran I made it in like 2 minutes. Those days are long gone, it's really dug out now.
Some days are like that :o
I spent two weekends out there recently (one removing graffiti and one wheeling) - Saw plenty of people hung up in that stretch (mostly yota's )

Those canyons really do change from year to year.

OOPS - And to keep this on topic .... To the OP:

I have 4.88s on 33s. Don't have any idea what kind of gas milage I'm getting - This combo works great for me. While my TJ is not a daily driver, It drives great on or off road. I will be going to an atlas xfer case when I go to 35s though (love to crawl).
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:28 PM   #53
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As long as your crawl ratio is good, it isn't a problem....
cool. well now i have an excuse to stay on the clutch

maybe i should get tera low
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:31 PM   #54
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cool. well now i have an excuse to stay on the clutch

maybe i should get tera low

let me help you spend your money....get a STaK
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:35 PM   #55
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let me help you spend your money....get a STaK
even better. doesn't that thing have two sticks? i forgot you had that beast.
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Old 03-31-2007, 09:38 AM   #56
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I was in Tampa this week so I stopped at a 4wheelparts.com store to burn some time. I ask the guy there the same question and got a similar response. With 32s keep your stock gears. With 33s go to 4.10 because 4.56 is really for 35s and up. That just doesn't make sense to me since the gear charts show something different.

Oh well, I order some 32s and am going to see how they do with my 3.73, but I'm already planning to re-gear 4.56.
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Old 03-31-2007, 08:38 PM   #57
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haha...if i had 33's there is no way i'd get 4.10's. the 06 and earlier rubis had 4.10's with only 31's.
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Old 04-02-2007, 09:25 AM   #58
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Yeah I would find another shop. 4.56 gears with 33's are more efficient and shouldn't cut into your mpg's like he said it would. Plus, if you're running 33's, is mpg really your main concern? Maybe you would be better off in a Honda. jk jk

Heck I run 33's and I'm gonna go to 4.88's!
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Old 04-02-2007, 10:35 AM   #59
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However, I usually avoid slipping my clutch, that's not a good thing. Which is why I REALLY want to upgrade to an automatic asap.

Just a thought Jerry, wouldn't a Tera-Low conversion, or a Stak, or AtlasII, be a better alternative, to give you a better crawl ratio, then the stock 2.73:1. I just can't give up the contol, of the stick, vs. auto. Having the right crawl ratio's, allows one to just idle up anything, without the use of the clutch, or skinny pedal. I know that a lot of people prefer the auto, and it's simplicity, but I sure do like to be able to dump the clutch, and bring the front end, back to the ground, if I get tipsy. That is hard to do, with a auto. The low on my Stak, gives me a ratio of 5.44:1, and mid range of 3.44:1, and with my 4:56 gears in the pumkins, there is not much need for feathering the clutch. Just seems that might aid your low end crawling, without the smoke............
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Old 04-02-2007, 11:43 AM   #60
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nice post blu. you made me feel better.

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