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Old 05-09-2007, 01:25 PM   #1
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Question What would you do?

Ok....still having a problem. Sorry but I've taken it to a Jeep place twice. $250 later I still have the same exact problem. (they fooled with the alignment and put in accentrics). I installed the RE 3.5" standard lift, new stablilizer, new shocks. Got death wobble. Got alignment, new tires. Death wobble gone, but still getting oscillation of steering wheel when hitting uneven bumps (even at 20 mph). I took Jerry's advice and looked under the Jeep as someone turned the wheel. Everything looked tight. The rubber bushing in the stock re-located track bar squished a little but looked normal. The Jeep shop says I need new front upper and lower control arms because aparently one wheel is a little more forward than the other wheel. But I don't trust them cuz I keep paying them and they don't fix my problem. I called another shop and they are saying I may need a DPA (I didn't tell them I only had a 4" lift). He also said that if I bring it to him, he will be able to tell what it is by driving it. My problem is, I don't have money. I don't want to replace something else and pay for it if it won't def. fix my problem. Now I know a DPA is not needed, and I know I should have an adjustable front track bar. But for now, I just want my problem fixed so I can stop driving like someone is going to steel my steering wheel from me.

What would you do in my situation??

If I post a picture will someone be able to suggest a fix??

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Old 05-09-2007, 02:24 PM   #2
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Whats a DPA ? on a 4" lift you should have used a rear trackbar relocation bracket bolted and welded to the rear diff and a front adjustable trackbar right off the bat. You should also have different sway bar disconnects, I don't know if your kit came with them or not, otherwise JKS makes good ones.
You might need a SYE and new drive shaft, not sure, on all the OME kits our club has done every one we also did a SYE on, some but not all got adjustable upper and lower control arms but they all got adjustable trackbars, no exceptions on that, otherwise the front diff was wayyyyy over on one side. Post this on www.bmja.org, we got a bunch of local members down that way who may be able to help including members who work at quadratec.
Thank god I don't live near you or I'd be even more broke more often...

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Old 05-09-2007, 05:46 PM   #3
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DPA = dropped Pitman arm.

The next thing I'd try would be to put jackstands under the axles and with the tires in the air and spinning after starting the engine and shifting into 1st gear (4Lo would further lower the wheel RPMs), check all four wheels for runout (from a bent wheel). A bent wheel as could easily be seen while the wheels are spinnning could easily trigger DW.
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Old 05-09-2007, 07:40 PM   #4
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i had the same problem and i fixed it. then its back again rarely but i know what it is. i have a bad hub bearing. jack up your front axle and try to move the wheel to see if it wobbles.
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Old 05-10-2007, 11:17 AM   #5
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Thank god I don't live near you or I'd be even more broke more often...

why is that?
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Old 05-10-2007, 11:19 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
DPA = dropped Pitman arm.

The next thing I'd try would be to put jackstands under the axles and with the tires in the air and spinning after starting the engine and shifting into 1st gear (4Lo would further lower the wheel RPMs), check all four wheels for runout (from a bent wheel). A bent wheel as could easily be seen while the wheels are spinnning could easily trigger DW.
ok, will do. again, thanks!
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Old 05-10-2007, 12:39 PM   #7
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why is that?
Quadratec...ever been in their warehouse ?
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Old 05-10-2007, 01:59 PM   #8
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Quadratec...ever been in their warehouse ?
Oh, yeah. I literally am .5 miles from them. Went to their "yard sale" last year but was too poor to be able to afford anything.
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Old 05-10-2007, 05:20 PM   #9
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Took it to another Jeep shop. They checked everything for worn out parts. Checked the wheels....they are straight. $75 bill......no fix. Now I'm $325 more in debt with the same problem! Now I'm thinking my only option is to go back to the first shop and get adjustable upper and lower control arms for the front. Is that something I can put on myself? I put the lift on, but don't really have any other experience with Jeeps. At this point I wish I could go back in time 2 months and keep it stock!
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Old 05-11-2007, 06:32 AM   #10
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You can do the A-arms yourself and save some cash... You'll need to get it aligned afterwards.
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Old 05-11-2007, 11:13 AM   #11
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Ya know when you redrill the hole to relocate the track bar, you need to drill one hole, then go through the back of the bracket? So you are actually drilling 2 holes to relocate the front track bar. Well, while drilling the second hole, the drill bit is through the first hole. This causes the first hole to wallow out a little because of MY unsteady hands. Think this is my problem?? The first hole is egged a little. If so, I would just get a new adjustable front track bar. I would then have to get it aligned again right?

Think this should be my next step?
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Old 05-11-2007, 11:35 AM   #12
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Since learning just how ridiculously easily checking/adjusting the TJ's toe-in and centering the steering wheel is, I haven't paid to have my Jeep aligned in years. So even if it did need a minor toe-in adjustment or the steering wheel needed to be re-centered after installing an adjustable-length trackbar, you could EASILY and ACCURATELY do it yourself. Here's a good instructional website on how to do just that... http://www.4x4xplor.com/alignment.html

That the trackbar bolt hole is now egged out a tad probably didn't change anything providing you have the mounting bolt tight enough (45 ft-lbs).
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Old 05-14-2007, 02:20 PM   #13
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Think this was my problem!?

So I decided to NOT be lazy and just take off the track bar to see what the hole I drilled looked like. This is what it looked like:

http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=IMG_3014.jpg

http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t...t=IMG_3015.jpg


Yeah, I would guess that this would be it. Now I decided to go with the popular JKS track bar. The cut off height for the two track bars is 3.5" and the other one starts at 4". My RE 3.5" lift gave me about 4". I am staying with the "up to 3.5" of lift" track bar. Good idea? I am purchasing from quadratec only because I live right next to them, DPG is out of stock, and I need this ASAP. Alignment will not be necessary after install, will it? I want to paint it silver with Krylon Fusion. Thoughts? Also, does anyone think this bracket is now too weak? I don't offroad much, and it still looks like it would hold with no problems.

It's amazing that both Jeep shops didn't catch this. Lazy I guess.
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Old 05-14-2007, 03:40 PM   #14
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Yeah bro that's EXACTLY what your problem is. No matter how tight you got that bolt in there it was going to move around under load.

I'd actually suggest going with the 4" and higher trac bar so that you won't have to buy another one if you go any higher. The stock mounting hole looks fine and you can re-use it when you put your new one on. No alignment will be necessary except to make sure that your axle is centered under the vehicle.

This is the exact reason why I feel it's very irresponsible for manufacturer's of lifts to tell people just to drill a new hole in that bracket. It makes it weaker and more suceptible to failure when you do that.

Oh, and here's your pic with no click needed.

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Old 05-14-2007, 04:36 PM   #15
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I'd use a drop pitman arm with a 4" also. Too steep of an angle. Just my $.02
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Old 05-14-2007, 04:49 PM   #16
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I'd use a drop pitman arm with a 4" also. Too steep of an angle. Just my $.02
NOT with a TJ. Installing a dropped Pitman arm will cause bump steer. Do YOU have a 4" lift with a DPA? A DPA is always installed on a CJ or YJ after a suspension lift has been installed but the TJ's redesigned steering system does not need one and installing one will just screw up the geometry. A DPA should only be installed on either a MUCH taller than 4" lift or when a dropped upper trackbar mount has also been installed like for the RE 1610 front trackbar.
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Old 05-14-2007, 06:39 PM   #17
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I'd actually suggest going with the 4" and higher trac bar so that you won't have to buy another one if you go any higher.

Thats what I was thinking. Will either work? I actually called JKS and the guy said to go with the 3.5 and under unless I know that I'm going to go bigger.

Quote:
Oh, and here's your pic with no click needed.
how do you do that!?



After taking off my track bar, I tried cranking it down really tight when putting it back on and snapped the bolt . Now I'm searching around for another grade 8 while trying to get the broken off bolt out of the original nut with that handle attached (forget the name). Hope I don't have to resort the the stealership!
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Old 05-14-2007, 06:42 PM   #18
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Flag nut.
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Old 05-14-2007, 06:48 PM   #19
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Considering that the RE springs give you at least 4" of lift then I'd go with the one that you won't have to max out right away. The 4" and up trac bar will still work for you centering your axle. Just don't put it in the hole that you drilled. Use the factory hole.

Oh, and when you are posting up at the top of the the post window is a little icon with a mountain on it. Just put your url for your pic in the box that pops up and hit enter. It will put the IMG tags around your pic so that you don't have to click and will just show on screen.
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Old 05-14-2007, 08:44 PM   #20
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Flag nut.

Flag Nut! Thats it. I tried going to the hardware store to get a new grade 8 bolt for my track bar but I'm having trouble getting the exact one. Anyone know what size this is? I'm pretty sure its metric, as everything else on the Jeep is. Also, trying to get the track bar off on the driver's side and having some trouble. Gonna hit it with liquid wrench tonight and try tom morning but any advice would be appreciated. I just can't get leverage cuz its in a tight spot.


Maybe I will switch to the track bar for larger lifts. Just worried it won't be as effective.
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Old 05-14-2007, 09:04 PM   #21
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Just switch to an appropriate size new Grade 5 or Grade 8 nut and bolt, I was able to get an open-end wrench on the nut inside the bracket to hold it when I did so.
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Old 05-14-2007, 09:23 PM   #22
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Sounds good.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:16 PM   #23
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Ordered the JKS track bar, picked it up from Quadratec, put it on..............................still wobbles . Before I go for adjustable front upper and lower control arms, I gotta have my tires checked. I Just think that if it were unbalanced tires, the wobble would come at a certain speed and not just when I hit bumps. I guess if they weren't too bad, they would be ok on the road until a bump threw off the balance a little. I don't trust any shop to balance them PERFECTLY. I will check the toe in as well. My new suspension that I put on myself to save money has now costed me more than double what I paid for it .
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:33 PM   #24
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<SNIP> My new suspension that I put on myself to save money has now costed me more than double what I paid for it .</SNIP>
Exactly why I havent dont one yet I want one bad, but I know darn well a 400 dollar lift is just going to cost me 400 more that I dont have
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Old 05-16-2007, 08:18 PM   #25
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I am told that the problem I am having are very uncommon. Usually, the lift works out, or if wobbling occurs, it is fixed by an alignment or tire blancing. The knowledge I have gained from this hellish experience that I am still having is almost worth the money.......ALMOST.
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Old 05-17-2007, 07:06 AM   #26
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I am told that the problem I am having are very uncommon. Usually, the lift works out, or if wobbling occurs, it is fixed by an alignment or tire blancing. The knowledge I have gained from this hellish experience that I am still having is almost worth the money.......ALMOST.
HINT: .5 miles from your house is probably the most knowledgable bunch of jeep guys in the north east, just look around the parking lot and supress the jeep envy . Most of them are bmja members who spend their weekends as trail guides at paragon, RC, do the JJ and CJ events as staff.
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Old 05-17-2007, 09:55 AM   #27
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HINT: .5 miles from your house is probably the most knowledgable bunch of jeep guys in the north east, just look around the parking lot and supress the jeep envy . Most of them are bmja members who spend their weekends as trail guides at paragon, RC, do the JJ and CJ events as staff.
I did take your advice and post on that forum. Seems its too hard to diagnose my problem without seeing/driving the Jeep.




Your avatar creeps me out.
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:02 AM   #28
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Do you know what your caster angle is?
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:04 AM   #29
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I do not....is this something I can measure myself? The first shop I took it to said that was my problem. They said my one wheel was slightly more forward than the other and that I needed the front upper and lower adjustable control arms to get them perfect. Makes sense, just don't have the money for that. Should I get my tires balanced again?
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Old 05-17-2007, 11:46 AM   #30
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It's very tough to measure your own caster angle. I asked about it because the TJ's front end can be more suceptible to DW when the caster angle is out too far. For your 4" of lift height, 5 or 5.5 degrees is about right. I'd say 4.5 degrees due to your lift height but I think you're only running 33" tires as I recall. Trying to get the caster angle up to the factory setting would be a mistake, don't let an alignment shop try to tell you that's where it should be... which is only correct for an unlifted TJ.

I can't say if your tires need balancing again but you might try rotating the front tires to the back on your own since you want to hold your costs down.

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