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Old 07-25-2013, 04:58 PM   #31
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So I ordered my setup yesterday.... and decided I'd rather error on the side of having too much rather than not enough. Here's what I went with...

- 4" Zone suspension lift with nitro shocks
- Zone steering stabilizer
- Zone sway bar quick disconnects
- Rubicon express adjustable track bar
- Stainless brake lines
With that 4" suspension lift, you also now need to also order a SYE kit and CV driveshaft as I mentioned above.

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Old 07-25-2013, 08:30 PM   #32
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I was told I shouldn't need an SYE because I have the transfer case drop and a 5 speed. Fact our fiction?

I was concerned that with the 3" lift I wouldn't fit my tires and now I'm sinking more money into this thing. I have a feeling this will be a reoccurring theme.

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Old 07-25-2013, 08:57 PM   #33
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You should add at least rear upper ADJ CA's and skip the set up that comes with that kit .
I would get a SYE &DS don't do the drop your asking for problems
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:19 PM   #34
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I have just over 4 inches of "lift" clearance in the front and still manage to absolutely stuff my 33s. If you are not modifying the body/fenders or adding a ton of bumpstop or run the wrong length/travel shocks for your setup, then you do need roughly 4 inches of lift. Like it has been said, however there are many ways to do things, and until one is educated and has experience and a good understanding of everything that goes into a functional suspension, then this is hard to answer.

I don't see the problem giving a "blanket statement" answer to a pretty noob question, no offense OP. Given the scenario laid out in the first post, the guy wants only the required things to get his rig wheeling safely and reliably on the trails. 3 or 4 inches will both do it, but with 3 inches he is going to need some additional bump stoppage to keep from eating the flares up.

Just for the record, 33s and a 3 inch lift. I will be running 37s on this same setup (suspension/height/spring wise). And I won't be doing that by adding bumpstops





Now let's stop nit-picking and actually HELP the poster instead of just arguing with eachother over little things.

Every suspension, every build, etc is going to be different. The best thing to do is research this stuff and learn and really understand before spending your money, then make a decision. That's my advice for you OP.





Yes of course, but your TJ is setup far differently than the OP is planning on setting his up. We need to answer these questions in context. If someone wants to take the time to explain everything else to him so he can save his money and build a more advanced rig, then they should do it. But we can't just throw out a line or two and mislead people either.
nice flexing .......I was reading your post about how high people want too go ....I am a believer in if it works good off roading then that should be good ...im running a iron rock 3 inch foundation kit with jks quick disconnects and it work great ...and a sparton locker up front ..you are right everyone has different needs ..I might be a newb on this sight but not new to 4 wheeling ...I just installed my sye kit
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:00 PM   #35
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Is this SYE and CV driveshaft really for serious wheeling? I don't expect to do anything very extreme (until I catch the bug) and plan to cruise around some ranch land and stuff. Am I okay initially with the 4" or should I freak out and call Zone to switch to the 3" or 4.25" before it ships in the morning because the SYE/CV is required right from the get go?
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:06 PM   #36
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Is this SYE and CV driveshaft really for serious wheeling? I don't expect to do anything very extreme (until I catch the bug) and plan to cruise around some ranch land and stuff. Am I okay initially with the 4" or should I freak out and call Zone to switch to the 3" or 4.25" before it ships in the morning because the SYE/CV is required right from the get go?
You'll definitely need a DC/SYE if you choose to not do a TC drop, which defeats the purpose of a lift. Without either, you will be destroying your drivetrain.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:18 PM   #37
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I was planning on going with the stock TC drop that comes with the kit. My hope was that the 4" kit was a better kit to build from should I decide to add 35's (with different flares) or some better wheeling hardware like SYE and CV driveshaft. I guess I'll give them a call in the morning.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:59 PM   #38
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35's???

Wow...alright...with that SYE and CV shaft you're now going to need a new rear axle and new steering at the very least.
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:30 AM   #39
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Yeah 35's need work but a d35, from what I've read (no experience here), should be fine if and only if you don't offroad it and are easy with it. Which is what you planned
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:36 AM   #40
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You can go as easy as you want on a d35 but if you slip in sand or water or snow then it's still an extremely good chance to blow it up.

Friend of mine running 35s on a d35 was just stopped on a hill and when he left from the light it grenaded...

As for steering...you'll still need a hd tie rod and drag link system such as iron rock offroad or currie (I run an iron rock system)
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:39 AM   #41
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I think you guys are causing this guy to panic. If his heart is set on the 4" kit, let him install it...run the drop that comes with it, it may totally suit his needs for now. In the future when I gets serious about 35's, he can do the SYE/CV and 8.8/44 rear etc. Lot of people have installed the Zone 4" lift as it comes and is perfectly happy with it.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:57 AM   #42
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I was planning on going with the stock TC drop that comes with the kit. My hope was that the 4" kit was a better kit to build from should I decide to add 35's (with different flares) or some better wheeling hardware like SYE and CV driveshaft. I guess I'll give them a call in the morning.
TC drop will totally work then. 4"+35s is a common route, although if you're planning on high clearance flares, *I personally* would try to keep it low (3"). One thing to add: a D35 with 35s is more common than many think, although risky - maybe keep some extra cash on hand just in case!


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I think you guys are causing this guy to panic. If his heart is set on the 4" kit, let him install it...run the drop that comes with it, it may totally suit his needs for now. In the future when I gets serious about 35's, he can do the SYE/CV and 8.8/44 rear etc. Lot of people have installed the Zone 4" lift as it comes and is perfectly happy with it.
His jeep!
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Old 07-26-2013, 07:19 AM   #43
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I was thinking further (much further) down the road with the 35s. I have the build sheet from Jeep that says I have a D44 (which was added as an option at the factory) and didn't realize additional work would be required.

Although not ideal, I can get away with the 4" with the TC do for a few months until I can afford the SYE and CV. It's definitely on my list now I just can't afford to do it now if I want to maintain my happy marriage. Besides, it's too late to swap it because it already shipped yesterday evening. Bummer
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:09 AM   #44
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Gears....

Brakes....

At a minimum for 35's. That's about $1500, assuming you don't set up the gears.
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:22 AM   #45
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Gears....

Brakes....

At a minimum for 35's. That's about $1500, assuming you don't set up the gears.
Ehhh... these 33s are just perfect
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:15 PM   #46
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I was told I shouldn't need an SYE because I have the transfer case drop and a 5 speed. Fact our fiction?

I was concerned that with the 3" lift I wouldn't fit my tires and now I'm sinking more money into this thing. I have a feeling this will be a reoccurring theme.
4" of suspension lift is the point at which the SYE and CV driveshaft becomes strongly (!) recommended. Whoever said you "don't need an SYE because you have the transfer case drop and a 5-speed" is clueless. Though some unscrupulous suspension lift sales people will push people into more expensive 4" or taller lifts without telling them they'll need a SYE/CV driveshaft until the suspension lift is installed & they have no real choice but to spend the extra $$$ for the SYE/CV driveshaft. They often don't mention it and the cost up front since they're afraid they'll lose the sale if they do.

It is possible to run a 4" suspension lift without a SYE and CV driveshaft but that causes two problems... first, you would need that stupid-low-deep transfer case drop to get rid of the drivetrain vibrations caused by such a tall suspension lift. Next, your rear driveshaft becomes too short with such a tall lift, it doesn't have much engagement left on the splined t-case output shaft.

No, you cannot simply install adjustable length control arms to adjust the rear axle's pinion angle to eliminate the vibes either. Those who suggest things like that don't understand the angle requirements of the u-joints on the stock non-CV OE driveshaft.

All of this is why I suggested a 3" suspension lift plus a 1" body lift as a way to create the 4" of clearance needed by 33" tires. A SYE/CV driveshaft is not yet needed for a 3" suspension lift.

And I wouldn't take a TJ offroad with 35" tires and a stock Dana 35 axle, you're just asking for a broken axle shaft... even if you "take it easy" on it. I've helped guys off the trail with broken Dana 35 axle shafts & they only had 32" and 33" tires, let alone 35" tires. I'm not saying it's common to break an axle shaft with 32" or 33" tires, I'm just saying 35" tires are just too big for that axle... as well as too big for the stock steering system too.

Take a look at the photos on this website... it is dedicated to broken Dana 35c axle shafts caused by running too big of a tire... http://www.billhughes.com/dana35c/
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:26 PM   #47
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4" of suspension lift is the point at which the SYE and CV driveshaft becomes strongly (!) recommended. Whoever said you "don't need an SYE because you have the transfer case drop and a 5-speed" is clueless. Though some unscrupulous suspension lift sales people will push people into more expensive 4" or taller lifts without telling them they'll need a SYE/CV driveshaft until the suspension lift is installed & they have no real choice but to spend the extra $$$ for the SYE/CV driveshaft. They often don't mention it and the cost up front since they're afraid they'll lose the sale if they do.

It is possible to run a 4" suspension lift without a SYE and CV driveshaft but that causes two problems... first, you would need that stupid-low-deep transfer case drop to get rid of the drivetrain vibrations caused by such a tall suspension lift. Next, your rear driveshaft becomes too short with such a tall lift, it doesn't have much engagement left on the splined t-case output shaft.

No, you cannot simply install adjustable length control arms to adjust the rear axle's pinion angle to eliminate the vibes either. Those who suggest things like that don't understand the angle requirements of the u-joints on the stock non-CV OE driveshaft.

All of this is why I suggested a 3" suspension lift plus a 1" body lift as a way to create the 4" of clearance needed by 33" tires. A SYE/CV driveshaft is not yet needed for a 3" suspension lift.

And I wouldn't take a TJ offroad with 35" tires and a stock Dana 35 axle, you're just asking for a broken axle shaft... even if you "take it easy" on it. I've helped guys off the trail with broken Dana 35 axle shafts & they only had 32" and 33" tires, let alone 35" tires. I'm not saying it's common to break an axle shaft with 32" or 33" tires, I'm just saying 35" tires are just too big for that axle... as well as too big for the stock steering system too.

Take a look at the photos on this website... it is dedicated to broken Dana 35c axle shafts caused by running too big of a tire... http://www.billhughes.com/dana35c/
I agree 100% with all of this...

all of my posts were from first hand experience as well. I'm running 35's on my current rig and have upgraded axles (front and rear), gears, steering, brakes, control arms, drive line, track bar, etc...

you'll find out soon enough that you'll need more mods to run things correct...its not just a simple "plug and play" when it comes to lifting and modding a jeep.
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:39 PM   #48
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Well the 4" is on the way already. I'm planning on the SYE and CV driveshaft later this year but at this point, I can't return it. I'll be putting on 33's and keeping my wheeling pretty mild so as long as their isn't any violent shakes occurring, I'll plan to use it as is for a short while until I take the next step. Really appreciate you guys sharing all this information with me. You've all been really helpful. In the future, I'll certainly do more research!
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:51 PM   #49
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No amount of drivetrain vibration can be simply lived with. Any vibrations at all from that new 4" suspension lift, even if mild, will damage the u-joints, seals, and/or bearings.
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:52 PM   #50
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Next, your rear driveshaft becomes too short with such a tall lift, it doesn't have much engagement left on the splined t-case output shaft.
Gawd this reminds me of a horror story of when a friend's shaft pulled out (4" lift) as he was flying over sand whoops. That flailing shaft shattered the housing and made a mess of the tub. Amazing damage.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:20 PM   #51
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This is why a good understanding should be developed before the wallet is opened.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:27 PM   #52
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This is why a good understanding should be developed before the wallet is opened.
And thats why I'm redoing a lot of stuff I either neglected or chose not to do over the past few years of "building" my TJ

I chose to run 35's and play catch up, instead of get jeep ready for 35's and then buy them.



To the OP...About that TC drop. You will definitely still have vibrations. My suggestion is start saving for the SYE and CV shaft. I drove my jeep with a similar setup that you have and it took about a year before my first U-joint exploded on me. After that I was kind of broke at the time so I decided to go the cheap way again, and just add a motor mount lift to try and get a little bit of correct driveline angle back. To my surprise the vibrations were pretty much gone and the jeep drove well. Almost another year went by before I lost another U-joint. Luckily money was better and I was able to afford the SYE and CV shaft.

Get the SYE and CV shaft asap.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:37 PM   #53
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I'll plan to do it in the next few months for sure. I've gotta let a few bills pass before I do it again. In the end, I think I'll be plenty happy with this setup especially knowing I bought the necessary components.
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Old 07-26-2013, 04:29 PM   #54
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I'll plan to do it in the next few months for sure.
Even driving a few days with the level of drivetrain vibrations a 4" suspension lift can create can cause failures of u-joints, seals, bearings, etc. This is another case of lots of good advice given before the purchase that was ignored and apparently wasn't taken seriously.
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Old 07-26-2013, 04:33 PM   #55
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I wouldn't bother with anything but the springs and shocks from Zone. The other components, like the control arms, are rather junky.
+1.....but you better have a pretty darn heavy TJ to run zone springs. Very stiff rates.
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Old 07-26-2013, 04:40 PM   #56
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This is why a good understanding should be developed before the wallet is opened.
+1..............again.
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Old 07-26-2013, 04:43 PM   #57
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Even driving a few days with the level of drivetrain vibrations a 4" suspension lift can create can cause failures of u-joints, seals, bearings, etc. This is another case of lots of good advice given before the purchase that was ignored and apparently wasn't taken seriously.
I talked to multiple install shops here in the DFW area who both suggested I not do the SYE/CV with the 4" unless I plan to do serious wheeling. Both have installed over a dozen 4" Zone lifts on Jeeps and said they haven't had any issues with it as long as you do the transfer case drop and the rear pinion cam locks that rotate the rear pinion for proper driveline angles. I also had several PM conversations with forum members who've done the 4" without the SYE/CV without any issues whatsoever. The advice has come both ways.

My Jeep is not my daily driver and will be used on a limited basis until the funds are available to do the SYE/CV upgrade. You may not agree but I can't go back and change it. Trust me, I tried.
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:02 PM   #58
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I talked to multiple install shops here in the DFW area who both suggested I not do the SYE/CV with the 4" unless I plan to do serious wheeling. Both have installed over a dozen 4" Zone lifts on Jeeps and said they haven't had any issues with it as long as you do the transfer case drop and the rear pinion cam locks that rotate the rear pinion for proper driveline angles.
That last sentence speaks volumes about them totally misunderstanding the geometry of how pinion angles are supposed to be set up. Overall, those shops gave you some self-serving bad advice but I've said all I can say.

P.S. I used to teach this type of information to retail 4x4 shop personnel. I was surprised at their lack of knowledge on how suspensions and drivetrain angles really worked. They consistently gave out bad information based on what their equally-ill informed buddies had told them.
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:47 PM   #59
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I say the OP should drop his t case 4 inches as a form of humiliation until he does it the right way.
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Old 07-26-2013, 10:08 PM   #60
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I say the OP should drop his t case 4 inches as a form of humiliation until he does it the right way.
LOL, I'm 100% sure I'm going to do it the right way. I just can't do it immediately and may drive it around town a half dozen times before I do it. Trust me, I appreciate everyone's feedback and recognize I ordered the wrong lift. I'm going to make it right and spend the extra $1K to have a capable Jeep that I don't have to worry about.

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