high fenders vs. lift - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > YJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > YJ General Discussion Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 12-23-2013, 09:40 PM   #1
Jeeper
 
jordan yj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North eastern New Mexico, Four Corners area
Posts: 154
high fenders vs. lift

So in a previous post I brought up the question: how best to fit 33's under a YJ. I was initially planning on a 4 inch lift to accomplish the goal of fitting 33's. Thing is I want 33X12.5 and would prefer to keep a lower center of gravity... I have had quite a few YJ owners tell me that they still have rubbing issues unless they put in pretty severe bump stop extensions. Someone brought to my attention the idea of high fenders instead of suspension. Some require you to cut your hood to extend your front fenders upwards, but one does not. Metal Cloak! After having done a bunch of research I have decided that I think these are the best way for me to fit bigger tires and still keep the center of gravity low. According to metal cloak 33's fit with stock suspension, or 35's with a 2" lift. Anyone gone with these fenders and had good or bad experiences with them? What I hope to do is get them with the 33's (I still have open diffs dana 30 and 35) and later when I can afford locking dana 44s get the 2 inch lift and 35's. I would love to hear from anyone with low COG builds about how this system has worked for them! Thanks

jordan yj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-23-2013, 10:31 PM   #2
Jeeper
 
94Wrangler4.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
Posts: 391
I have a set of raw steel overlines waiting for paint. The quality is awsome.

__________________
4in RC 2.0, RR HD steering, 1in BD MM, RR CAI, Posi Lok CAD, 4.10's, 32x11.5x15 backed with an ax15, MC fenders
94Wrangler4.0 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-23-2013, 10:47 PM   #3
Jeeper
 
jordan yj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North eastern New Mexico, Four Corners area
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94Wrangler4.0 View Post
I have a set of raw steel overlines waiting for paint. The quality is awsome.
Right on! Please let me know how they hold up!
jordan yj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-23-2013, 11:13 PM   #4
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: King George, VA
Posts: 245
Do you know where your current COG is located?
Joe Dillard is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-23-2013, 11:20 PM   #5
Jeeper
 
jordan yj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North eastern New Mexico, Four Corners area
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Dillard View Post
Do you know where your current COG is located?
I am not sure if that question is too advanced for me or if you are being sarcastic. This is my first Jeep / first 4X4
jordan yj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-23-2013, 11:24 PM   #6
Jeeper
 
jordan yj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North eastern New Mexico, Four Corners area
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Dillard View Post
Do you know where your current COG is located?
Also I have a soft top and half doors so it is not as top heavy as full doors and a hard top if that helps answer the question.
jordan yj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-23-2013, 11:34 PM   #7
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: King George, VA
Posts: 245
Nope - I was not being sarcastic in the slightest.

Knowing where the current COG is located, then knowing where the "new" COG is located after changes are made, is what you will want to know if you are going to keep it in the constraints you mentioned.

At two of the shops I worked at (not the place I work at now) we use to take all sorts of measurements & weights and do the math for our customers so that we could build the rig to their specs.
Joe Dillard is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-23-2013, 11:47 PM   #8
Jeeper
 
jordan yj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North eastern New Mexico, Four Corners area
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Dillard View Post
Nope - I was not being sarcastic in the slightest.

Knowing where the current COG is located, then knowing where the "new" COG is located after changes are made, is what you will want to know if you are going to keep it in the constraints you mentioned.

At two of the shops I worked at (not the place I work at now) we use to take all sorts of measurements & weights and do the math for our customers so that we could build the rig to their specs.
That's awesome! I don’t know of shops around me doing that, but that doesnt mean they don't. I'll ask around! Good info thanks!
jordan yj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-24-2013, 12:06 AM   #9
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
daddyjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Smethport, PA
Posts: 2,433
Do you really think all of the measurements and calculations for COG are relevant here? Not lifting the Jeep will keep the COG lower than if it were lifted. The additional weight of the tires will outweigh the weight of the Metalcloaks.
__________________
87 YJ, 5.2/46RH/NP231, Custom 4 link/ Radius Arms, Ballistic Nitrogen Shocks, 35" Cooper STT DaddyJeep build Thread:http://www.wranglerforum.com/f8/dadd...ld-122601.html
daddyjeep is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-24-2013, 12:09 AM   #10
Guesses a lot ;)

WF Supporting Member
 
OregonPlinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Creswell, OR.
Posts: 878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Dillard View Post
Nope - I was not being sarcastic in the slightest.

Knowing where the current COG is located, then knowing where the "new" COG is located after changes are made, is what you will want to know if you are going to keep it in the constraints you mentioned.

At two of the shops I worked at (not the place I work at now) we use to take all sorts of measurements & weights and do the math for our customers so that we could build the rig to their specs.
Would you elaborate on these measurements and weights and how it all comes together mathematically a bit? This is very interesting!! Just one or two equations would make my week! It is Christmas time...lol
__________________
91 Laredo, 4.0ho, TF999, Magnaflow exhaust, Yukon rear axles, Spartan Lockers, Posi locker, 3.5 inch springs, 1"MML, 1"BL, 1"shackles, trimmed fenders, raised flares, 35x13.50s.
OregonPlinker is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-24-2013, 01:12 AM   #11
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: King George, VA
Posts: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddyjeep View Post
Do you really think all of the measurements and calculations for COG are relevant here?
It could be to the OP. I simply asked if he knew where the current COG was located and what we use to do to find it.
Joe Dillard is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-24-2013, 06:20 AM   #12
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 576
I went with high fenders and a 2.5 inch lift and currently run 33's but can fit 35's

I used SRC front and Gen Right rears.

My buddy used metal cloak F&R on his TJ and they are top quality.

I think we both made mistakes we never checked out our COG or balance between front to rear.

What do I do when I run my hardtop and doors compared to when I'm not running them? Should I make two calculation and should a line be painted vertical down my Jeep with COG here?

I may need to get that done before I drive it again, now I'm nervous after 20 years of driving Jeeps offroad.

Someone please hurry up with the calculations, I called several shops here and they were not helpful, maybe I should try the Herbst Race Team they must do it for their trophy trucks.
__________________
Las Vegas
1995 YJ / New in 2013 Build Link
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f118/je...ld-333681.html
Jrozar is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-24-2013, 07:23 AM   #13
Jeeper
 
95YamJam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Fort Wayne
Posts: 1,566
I'm not too sure about my cog. My jeep feels really stable no matter what a do with it. I have 36x12.5 tel ss's. I run a 2.5" spring lift, 1" bl, 1" shackle lift. I have cut out rear fenders and home made no flare front "tube" fenders. I run 1" extended bumps plus I have added extended bump pads to my axles. I have about 4" of up travel maybe a bit more when the bump stop smooshes in. Lol. No rubbing.

It's a Dd and part time wheeler. I would say most of the wheeling I do is trail riding, mudding. Very little "rock crawling".

I don't know why people get afraid of bump stops to limit up travel. ..
__________________
My build thread : http://www.wranglerforum.com/f8/my-9...yam-93463.html

"A lack of planning on your part does not constitue an instant emergency on my part"
95YamJam is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-24-2013, 07:26 AM   #14
Jeeper
 
95YamJam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Fort Wayne
Posts: 1,566
Click image for larger version

Name:	ForumRunner_20131224_082532.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	121.6 KB
ID:	611361

Here is s bad pic of what it looks like with above described lift, tires, etc. ...
__________________
My build thread : http://www.wranglerforum.com/f8/my-9...yam-93463.html

"A lack of planning on your part does not constitue an instant emergency on my part"
95YamJam is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-24-2013, 07:51 AM   #15
Jeeper
 
jordan yj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North eastern New Mexico, Four Corners area
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95YamJam View Post

Here is s bad pic of what it looks like with above described lift, tires, etc. ...
I live in New Mexico about a half hour from Colorado so most of my wheeling is rock crawling and occasional mountain passes. I am not afraid to extend bump stops, I just felt that spending $ on a lift and then not being able to fully take advantage of its flexing capabilities didnt make much sense. If I was running 36's or bigger than I get what you mean and would run a combo of fender mod and lift, but my current objective is 33's, and if I can do that without suspension modifications than that seemed to make the most sense to me. As I said bigger tires and suspension will come later when I can get the money together for stronger axles with lower gearing and lockers
jordan yj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-24-2013, 07:53 AM   #16
Jeeper
 
jordan yj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North eastern New Mexico, Four Corners area
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrozar View Post
I went with high fenders and a 2.5 inch lift and currently run 33's but can fit 35's

I used SRC front and Gen Right rears.

My buddy used metal cloak F&R on his TJ and they are top quality.

I think we both made mistakes we never checked out our COG or balance between front to rear.

What do I do when I run my hardtop and doors compared to when I'm not running them? Should I make two calculation and should a line be painted vertical down my Jeep with COG here?

I may need to get that done before I drive it again, now I'm nervous after 20 years of driving Jeeps offroad.

Someone please hurry up with the calculations, I called several shops here and they were not helpful, maybe I should try the Herbst Race Team they must do it for their trophy trucks.
Lol
jordan yj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-24-2013, 08:21 AM   #17
Jeeper
 
95YamJam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Fort Wayne
Posts: 1,566
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan yj View Post

I live in New Mexico about a half hour from Colorado so most of my wheeling is rock crawling and occasional mountain passes. I am not afraid to extend bump stops, I just felt that spending $ on a lift and then not being able to fully take advantage of its flexing capabilities didnt make much sense. If I was running 36's or bigger than I get what you mean and would run a combo of fender mod and lift, but my current objective is 33's, and if I can do that without suspension modifications than that seemed to make the most sense to me. As I said bigger tires and suspension will come later when I can get the money together for stronger axles with lower gearing and lockers
I agree...I got confused as to who wanted to run what. I think running the 33's without any suspension if you can is the best way to go imho. Good plan for sure.
__________________
My build thread : http://www.wranglerforum.com/f8/my-9...yam-93463.html

"A lack of planning on your part does not constitue an instant emergency on my part"
95YamJam is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-24-2013, 10:05 AM   #18
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 576
SRC front Gen Right Rear Old man Emu 2.5 lift with 33" BFG's.







__________________
Las Vegas
1995 YJ / New in 2013 Build Link
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f118/je...ld-333681.html
Jrozar is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-24-2013, 06:15 PM   #19
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: King George, VA
Posts: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrozar View Post
Someone please hurry up with the calculations, I called several shops here and they were not helpful, maybe I should try the Herbst Race Team they must do it for their trophy trucks.
I'm not surprised that you didn't get a well explained answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OregonPlinker View Post
Would you elaborate on these measurements and weights and how it all comes together mathematically a bit? This is very interesting!! Just one or two equations would make my week! It is Christmas time...lol
I won't reinvent the wheel since we don't always use this method - but this will get you in the ballpark.

Center of Gravity and Roll-Over Angle - Jeepaholics Anonymous
Joe Dillard is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-24-2013, 08:12 PM   #20
Jeeper
 
jordan yj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North eastern New Mexico, Four Corners area
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Dillard View Post
Cool!
jordan yj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-24-2013, 08:29 PM   #21
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
daddyjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Smethport, PA
Posts: 2,433
That's a good link. I might have to go through that process one day just so I know where I am at. If you know someone with race cars they might have scales you can use.
__________________
87 YJ, 5.2/46RH/NP231, Custom 4 link/ Radius Arms, Ballistic Nitrogen Shocks, 35" Cooper STT DaddyJeep build Thread:http://www.wranglerforum.com/f8/dadd...ld-122601.html
daddyjeep is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-25-2013, 11:01 AM   #22
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: King George, VA
Posts: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddyjeep View Post
That's a good link. I might have to go through that process one day just so I know where I am at. If you know someone with race cars they might have scales you can use.
We had scales in our shop and for each build we were doing, used them. It provides a good baseline and helps when dialing in shocks and other things for a well balanced rig.
Joe Dillard is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-25-2013, 06:46 PM   #23
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: fort dodge iowa
Posts: 125
Virtual center of gravity ( cog) if easy to figure with scales but you should remember that as the jeep moves so does the c.o.g. tbis needs to be figured in while setting up suspension. One thing ive noticed in the offrooad area is links seem to be considered more as just a way to hang axels and less as a suspension/traction control device. Think of it this way your cog is directly inline with the angle of lower congrol arms. I havent seem much of this in 4wd convos so id think drag racing/ dirt track cars would have more info about this
new2jeepin is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-25-2013, 06:57 PM   #24
Jeeper
 
jordan yj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North eastern New Mexico, Four Corners area
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by new2jeepin View Post
Virtual center of gravity ( cog) if easy to figure with scales but you should remember that as the jeep moves so does the c.o.g. tbis needs to be figured in while setting up suspension. One thing ive noticed in the offrooad area is links seem to be considered more as just a way to hang axels and less as a suspension/traction control device. Think of it this way your cog is directly inline with the angle of lower congrol arms. I havent seem much of this in 4wd convos so id think drag racing/ dirt track cars would have more info about this
Leaf sprung.. no control arms. I do hear ya though it seems like most people are willing to sacrifice handling for flex, rigidity for articulation, low cog for ground clearance. I am trying to fit somewhere in the "best of both worlds" category and it seems that conversation isn't common in 4WD community.
jordan yj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-25-2013, 10:49 PM   #25
Guesses a lot ;)

WF Supporting Member
 
OregonPlinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Creswell, OR.
Posts: 878
Its a jeep... What is handling? lol.

Have you thought about a tummy tuck? 33s and no lift you will have a very capable all purpose Jeep. If you get a flat skid under it you will be set up even better...
__________________
91 Laredo, 4.0ho, TF999, Magnaflow exhaust, Yukon rear axles, Spartan Lockers, Posi locker, 3.5 inch springs, 1"MML, 1"BL, 1"shackles, trimmed fenders, raised flares, 35x13.50s.
OregonPlinker is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-25-2013, 11:37 PM   #26
Jeeper
 
jordan yj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North eastern New Mexico, Four Corners area
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by OregonPlinker View Post
Its a jeep... What is handling? lol.

Have you thought about a tummy tuck? 33s and no lift you will have a very capable all purpose Jeep. If you get a flat skid under it you will be set up even better...
Yes and I think it is an awesome mod to have... however cost can be an issue with a tummy tuck. Need and sye, new driveshaft, and extended motor mounts to go with it, and I feel like if I do that it will come when I have the $ for axles too. From what I've read most people wont even consider it until they are swapping to an atlas transfer case. It is just too much work to be able to justify when using stock transfer case and stock axles. I am taking this build one small step at a time. I should mention this yj is my daily driver as well.
jordan yj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-26-2013, 01:00 AM   #27
Guesses a lot ;)

WF Supporting Member
 
OregonPlinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Creswell, OR.
Posts: 878
Gotcha. With not having a lift you could get by without the SYE and CV. They arent exactly all their cracked up to be anyway... Just a big MML like 1.5 inch and some shims for pinion angle I bet would get you there. Or cutting off the perches and re doing them. If you have access to the right tools you could make the skid and transfer mount for like 40-50 bucks if you kept it simple.

But like you said, I am doing it when I swap in my new axles, go SOA and stretch her a little. Mine is a trailer queen for the most part too. Hell, it dont even run right now...lol

If you havent already, check out norcal_chris build thread. Its pretty inspiring for the LCOG enthusiast.

95 YJ Budget Build-
__________________
91 Laredo, 4.0ho, TF999, Magnaflow exhaust, Yukon rear axles, Spartan Lockers, Posi locker, 3.5 inch springs, 1"MML, 1"BL, 1"shackles, trimmed fenders, raised flares, 35x13.50s.
OregonPlinker is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-26-2013, 10:24 AM   #28
Jeeper
 
jordan yj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North eastern New Mexico, Four Corners area
Posts: 154
If you havent already, check out norcal_chris build thread. Its pretty inspiring for the LCOG enthusiast.

95 YJ Budget Build-[/QUOTE]

Right on will do thanks!
jordan yj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-26-2013, 10:57 AM   #29
2xs
Cali Smog Nazi.

WF Supporting Member
 
2xs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Santa Rosa, Ca.
Posts: 2,641
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrozar View Post
I went with high fenders and a 2.5 inch lift and currently run 33's but can fit 35's

I used SRC front and Gen Right rears.

My buddy used metal cloak F&R on his TJ and they are top quality.

I think we both made mistakes we never checked out our COG or balance between front to rear.

What do I do when I run my hardtop and doors compared to when I'm not running them? Should I make two calculation and should a line be painted vertical down my Jeep with COG here?

I may need to get that done before I drive it again, now I'm nervous after 20 years of driving Jeeps offroad.

Someone please hurry up with the calculations, I called several shops here and they were not helpful, maybe I should try the Herbst Race Team they must do it for their trophy trucks.
I laughed....

If you know your Jeep, and like it, you are good, if you dont like its handling, change something to lower its COG.
Rocket surgery with all the calculations and high tech stuff doesnt tell you what to do, its all irrelevant if you dont know your rig. However common sense does, you want your COG lower? lower your rig, shave this and that, cut your fenders, SEARCH for tummy tuck!

If you are into crunching numbers, go at it, but all its going to tell you is where this point is, and nothing about how to change it.

This all reminds me about the "butt" dyno, that part you put on made you "think" you have more power, but actually driving it you can feel the difference if any....
Ooh, I have this pretty piece of paper that says my COG is here, see that? I never looked at my center consoles floor like I do now! BUT, I want to look at the top of my Tcase like that, how do I do that Mr pretty piece of paper with numbers all over it and a pic with a few lines through a jeep....
Basically no amount of calculations can replace actual driving experience and familiarity with your rig....


Oh, wait...


Sorry, got carried away there, wont happen again....
__________________
'93 Black YJ, 4.0L AX15 - UNDER CONSTRUCTION!
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f330/2x...ad-490865.html
'04 SV1000s:
http://www.svrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=280873
Old Jeep that was totaled (and SOLD!):
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f330/2x...ad-101879.html
2xs is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 12-26-2013, 02:49 PM   #30
Moderator

::WF Moderator::
 
harleydragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: south georgia
Posts: 3,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xs View Post
I laughed....

If you know your Jeep, and like it, you are good, if you dont like its handling, change something to lower its COG.
Rocket surgery with all the calculations and high tech stuff doesnt tell you what to do, its all irrelevant if you dont know your rig. However common sense does, you want your COG lower? lower your rig, shave this and that, cut your fenders, SEARCH for tummy tuck!

If you are into crunching numbers, go at it, but all its going to tell you is where this point is, and nothing about how to change it.

This all reminds me about the "butt" dyno, that part you put on made you "think" you have more power, but actually driving it you can feel the difference if any....
Ooh, I have this pretty piece of paper that says my COG is here, see that? I never looked at my center consoles floor like I do now! BUT, I want to look at the top of my Tcase like that, how do I do that Mr pretty piece of paper with numbers all over it and a pic with a few lines through a jeep....
Basically no amount of calculations can replace actual driving experience and familiarity with your rig....


Oh, wait...


Sorry, got carried away there, wont happen again....
and that's the real story..glad someone finally told it like it is

harleydragon is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:56 AM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC