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Old 03-27-2012, 11:54 PM   #1
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Let the Squirrels breath-Cold air intake throttle body spacer combos

I have a 2.5L on a 95 and I was thinking about letting my little engine breathe better. I've been looking into spacers and intakes, i want to get both. Any suggestions?

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Old 03-28-2012, 03:57 PM   #2
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Yup, just get a 4.0 throttle body and swap it, did mine pick-up a few hp. Gonna port match the intaake to the TB one of these days too. Just google 2.5 to 4.0 TB swap and you'll get a ton of pages. Or go to WWW.4bangerJP.com.

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Old 03-28-2012, 06:39 PM   #3
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Spacers and intakes wont do anything.

I had both on my Jeep from the PO. Removed them both, sold them for $150 and everything is the same. No change whatsoever.

Jeep 2.5l use fuel injection, not throttle body injection. Youre "throttle body" you are enlarging only lets in air, 2.5 only needs so much you can force feed it more and expect horsepower or something
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:54 PM   #4
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you put throttle body in quotations like its imaginary. And increased airflow still allows for better fuel injection.More air allows more fuel to burn making more energy producing more power. Those two product lets more air flow into the engine. Are you saying theres no amount of added airflow thatll benefit the 2.5 in anyway?
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:06 AM   #5
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I put an AEM brute force cold air in my TJ and it gave me another mpg and a little better pick-up as well as a meaner sound. IMO it was well worth the money.
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:09 AM   #6
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An air intake, 4.0 throttle body, and throttle body spacer have been proven on a dyno to gain somewhere around 6-8hp, ontop of gaining acceleration. Removing them is doing quite the opposite.
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Old 03-29-2012, 08:03 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Xpress
An air intake, 4.0 throttle body, and throttle body spacer have been proven on a dyno to gain somewhere around 6-8hp, ontop of gaining acceleration. Removing them is doing quite the opposite.
Tell me if you felt the difference, if you did it was a placebo feeling because you want to think it changed it a bunch.

An engine can only use so much air, as it only injects so much fuel. For there to be a great combustion there has to be a ratio of fuel to air. Unless you tune, or advance the timing of the spark in the engine you wont use anymore air then the stock intake provides. Coming from someone who has had them, and removed them I feel I know if there was a difference and there was none. And again, my CAI let more dirt through, a spacer does nothing if anything let more debris and hot air in.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:29 AM   #8
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With fuel injection you have a mass air sensor so if a cold air intake allows more air in then then the injectors can also add more fuel while keeping air to fuel mixtures the same. The "cold" portion of a cold air intake is actually very important, the colder the air going to your engine the better the fuel can atomize resulting in a more efficient burn of the fuel resulting in more power and better mpg.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:50 AM   #9
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With fuel injection you have a mass air sensor so if a cold air intake allows more air in then then the injectors can also add more fuel while keeping air to fuel mixtures the same. The "cold" portion of a cold air intake is actually very important, the colder the air going to your engine the better the fuel can atomize resulting in a more efficient burn of the fuel resulting in more power and better mpg.
I bet you could take a thermometer to the "cool" side of the intake/shield and then the engine side...and there wouldnt be much difference. I also have a CAI and didnt notice anything other than a change in sound. I put it on back when I was new to jeeps and didnt know any better. I really wish I coulda saved myself a couple hundred dollars lol.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:58 AM   #10
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Spacers and intakes wont do anything.

Jeep 2.5l use fuel injection, not throttle body injection.
X2. This was a constant on going debate with the TJs. If you want more response from your 2.5, get an exhaust header, freeflow exhaust, replace manual fan with an electric fan(frees up horsepower), regear, get a turbo kit or never use the 5th gear. In reference to the "cold air" intake, it's actually more of a hot air intake unless you have a ram air induction scoop directly over your cold air intake
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Old 03-29-2012, 06:46 PM   #11
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I have the exhaust, getting new headers. I'm gunna get the intake and spacer anyway I was asking if anyone had brand suggestions
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Old 03-29-2012, 06:51 PM   #12
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I have the exhaust, getting new headers. I'm gunna get the intake and spacer anyway I was asking if anyone had brand suggestions
Airaid is popular for both intake and spacer. I personally like S&B filters, but I don't think they make spacers.
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Old 03-29-2012, 08:07 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by IndyJeepMan View Post
Tell me if you felt the difference, if you did it was a placebo feeling because you want to think it changed it a bunch.

An engine can only use so much air, as it only injects so much fuel. For there to be a great combustion there has to be a ratio of fuel to air. Unless you tune, or advance the timing of the spark in the engine you wont use anymore air then the stock intake provides. Coming from someone who has had them, and removed them I feel I know if there was a difference and there was none. And again, my CAI let more dirt through, a spacer does nothing if anything let more debris and hot air in.
That's 6-8hp on dyno sheets. If I can find them I will post them, it's adding horsepower. There's no placebo effect to dynomometer results, it's telling you the FACTS as they are. You're just going to arrogantly say that opening up the intake and exhaust is going to do nothing? That's incorrect, opening up the intake AND exhaust absolutely HAS to create a more profound effect on engine acceleration and power output, putting those components on won't leave the engine running as stock. Open up its lungs and let it breathe, it's going to perform better. Doesn't matter what engine you do it to, be it coal, steam, diesel, whatever, it's going to perform better. Believe it or not throttle body spacers do infact work, they create turbulence inside of the intake which causes the air to mix up the fuel spray better. Basically it goes from a small cloud to a very large and potent cloud, either TBI or MPFI. A spacer alone won't do anything more than a modest 1hp increase, it takes an accumulation of components to create a notable effect on engine performance.

FWIW, colder air entering the engine carries more density with it which creates for a more powerful explosion inside of the cylinder. It also helps aid in cooling.
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Old 03-29-2012, 08:21 PM   #14
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Well said Xpress....
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:05 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Xpress

That's 6-8hp on dyno sheets. If I can find them I will post them, it's adding horsepower. There's no placebo effect to dynomometer results, it's telling you the FACTS as they are. You're just going to arrogantly say that opening up the intake and exhaust is going to do nothing? That's incorrect, opening up the intake AND exhaust absolutely HAS to create a more profound effect on engine acceleration and power output, putting those components on won't leave the engine running as stock. Open up its lungs and let it breathe, it's going to perform better. Doesn't matter what engine you do it to, be it coal, steam, diesel, whatever, it's going to perform better. Believe it or not throttle body spacers do infact work, they create turbulence inside of the intake which causes the air to mix up the fuel spray better. Basically it goes from a small cloud to a very large and potent cloud, either TBI or MPFI. A spacer alone won't do anything more than a modest 1hp increase, it takes an accumulation of components to create a notable effect on engine performance.

FWIW, colder air entering the engine carries more density with it which creates for a more powerful explosion inside of the cylinder. It also helps aid in cooling.
You would have been an easy buyer to get rid of the junk that was on my Jeep.

Talk to me when you can tell the power difference, when the power to money ratio is below 25:1.

The only time that 8hp is worth $600 in junk is when you are peaking a high performance engine on a high performance race car.

You also arent getting any better flow, or colder with these "CAI" until you route it under the vehicle, or abover with a induction port or scoop you will still be using under the hood heated air temperatures through a plastic tube. The exact same thing your stock intake does.

Show me these dyno sheets, and then ill show you that the 8hp comes in at some stupid high non commonly used RPM. Especially in a 2.5l MPFI engine that slightly produces more than 100hp.

Your money, your time. I got rid of it, and my rig runs 100% the same.
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Old 03-30-2012, 07:36 AM   #16
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The most expensive options are way under $600. Good try tho
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:20 AM   #17
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Sandstorm: it's true that six or eight horses are going to be hard to feel, but easier breathing is always more efficient, and I think intake upgrades would compliment your exhaust. I always put them on with the hope of increased fuel economy. On my '02 Dodge Ram 4.7 gas, I gained a solid 2 mpg with a K&N FIPK and I got about 1.5 out of my '07 Ram Cummins diesel with an S&B CAI. Both have stock exhaust, and mpg was calculated over several tanks. When you are getting 12 mpg, a two point increase is a lot, and the higher the price of gas and the bigger the gain percentage-wise, the quicker they pay for themselves. I can't say the gain will be significant on a 2.5, but if my YJ ever becomes a daily driver, I will probably try one based on previous results. IMO it is a kinda costly 8 hp, but how many power upgrades pay for themselves over time?
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandstorm95
The most expensive options are way under $600. Good try tho
$200 intake, $250 exhaust ($350-400) with header. $50 spacer.

$500-$700.

Have fun with that
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:46 PM   #19
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Instead of shooting the OP down why don't we just help him out since it is HIS jeep and HIS and leave out our opinions
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:57 PM   #20
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Agreed ^
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:05 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Instead of shooting the OP down why don't we just help him out since it is HIS jeep and HIS and leave out our opinions
I don't think anyone is trying to shoot him down, but when u try to argue with people's experience with the situation, he must already have his mind made up. He's looking for advice on what to go with and the general consensus is that they are a waste of money on a wrangler. When looking for advice on something like intakes...it is going to be an opinion. He can take what he wants from our "advice" and do as he wishes.
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:48 PM   #22
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YJ Wheezer Squeezing

Back in 2004, tech editor hazel suddenly found himself the owner of a cheap, 100K-mile '95 yJ with a good-running 2.5l and an aX-5 tranny.

It was quiet, economical, and comfortable to drive, so naturally he modded the hell out of it until it was loud and uncomfortable. here's the power play and dyno numbers from the engine modification installment of the buildup. while it's impressive that we actually raised horsepower by 14 percent, the power came on at a much higher rpm and driveability actually suffered. in reality, it was a nicer-driving vehicle with the stock drivetrain. live and learn.

Power Play Combo:
Flex-a-lite electric fan, pn 475
Banks torquetube header
Banks stinger exhaust random technolgies high flow catalytic converter,pn 822201
Stock 58mm 4.0l throttle body
AEM Brute Force air intake and filter




Vehicle Specs:
1995 YJ wrangler
2.5L
AX-5 transmission
4.10 gears
29-inch tires
Power Gains:
stock: 100 hp, 121 lb-ft*
Modified: 114 hp, 128 lb-ft*
*Note - numbers taken at rear tires



Read more: Powerful Jeep Engines - 10 Proven Power Plays - Jp Magazine
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:50 PM   #23
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So about 2000$ in mods for about a 14 HP gain...


Either way, I'm going to do the intake, headers, and exhaust ( i need to change my exhaust manifold and exhaust anyway as they are falling apart ).
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:16 PM   #24
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$200 intake, $250 exhaust ($350-400) with header. $50 spacer.

$500-$700.

Have fun with that
Nobody in their right mind would spend $200 for a high flow intake (high flow intake, not cold air intake). You can make one for $20 ($6 filter, $10 tubing, $4 in misc hardware) or less!

$190 for a higher flow header from quadratec, $150 for muffler, and you're basically there.

$30 spacer off of ebay. Or make your own for less. $390.

You forget that the very reason we have Jeeps is so that we can customize them to how WE want. Instead you are attacking the OP and telling him what not to do because YOU didn't experience anything. Stop posting here, it's getting annoying now.

The above dyno sheet shows almost nothing. How the hell do we compare anything if only one sheet was given? You can't, it's an invalid comparison against nothing. Jeepers who have done everything as far as bolt on components go have noticed plenty of more power out of the 2.5L, especially pulling up hills. No more downshifting.

There are things that need to be done to the 2.5L to increase performance:

-High flow intake
-High flow exhaust components
-Ford 19lb injectors
-Throttle body spacer
-4.0 throttle body
-Electric fan
-High performance coil

All of which has been proven to pump up engine output by 45-50hp at the most. Realistically, it's about 35hp increase, and won't cost you more than $700 or so in parts total. Considering that engine swap often cost upwards of $1500+ and THEN you have to deal with getting the swap legalized, upgrading the 2.5L is perfectly reasonable. $2000 in parts is just being ripped off, there's no reason for you to ever spend that much. The reviewer is an idiot for paying that much for those parts in the first place. Another factor to consider, he did little to the engine compared to what could have been done. He opened up the lungs, he did nothing else to improve performance.
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:26 PM   #25
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Where does that power come in? And whered the proof, I have no reason to believe anything that you spill out of your mouth.

Im not telling the op to do anything, im giving him my opinion, for which a forum is for and my REAL life views, not some lab tested dynomometer BS in which the added power comes in a 4,000+ rpm.

You sir need to watch how you approach others, you come off as arrogant.

Oh and youre here to tell me 35hp at the crank is worth $700? So more like 15 at the wheels through the Jeeps very parasitic drivetrain and rolling resistence. You can OP, and whoever do with what you please with your money.

Me, ill save my money for mods that actually are worth their value.
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Old 03-30-2012, 07:21 PM   #26
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Already have the exhaust and need to buy new headers anyway. Indyjeepman thanks for the help you've proven nothing
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Old 03-30-2012, 07:30 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Sandstorm95
Already have the exhaust and need to buy new headers anyway. Indyjeepman thanks for the help you've proven nothing
Have fun buddy .
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:25 AM   #28
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Jeep 2.5l use fuel injection, not throttle body injection. Youre "throttle body" you are enlarging only lets in air, 2.5 only needs so much you can force feed it more and expect horsepower or something
OK, maybe I did call it by an improper name, but the spacer under it is called a "Throttle Body" spacer. So you call it what you want and I'll call it what everyone knows it by. BTW: it should be "your" (possessive) and not "youre" aka you're(contraction of "you are.")

Well seeing how you are telling everyone of your experence, I will tell mine. All I have done to mine is the 4.0L TB swap, which cost me $0 cause I had one on the shelf, but they are only $20 to $30 at the junkyard. Mine was a dog before the swap, now it is still a dog, but a dog with some bite. It will bark 2nd gear now, never would before. I am running 32in tires and still using 5th. I know others that can't do that until highway speeds. And it is not a placebo. Go check www.4bangerJP.com.

Now on to the math.
6-8hp "in a 2.5l MPFI engine that slightly produces more than 100hp" is roughly a 6-8% increase in hp. And I can get it for way less than what you are claiming it cost. That is the equivalent of 20-25hp in a 300hp motor. Try and get that much hp for under $100.

I will agree with you on the spacer, never seen much from them unless it is used for tuning a high HP motor.

But in the grand scheme of the 2.5, this list is about all we can do, short of heavy machine work to head and cam. So why not take advantage of all we can as long as it works for us?

-High flow intake
-High flow exhaust components
-Ford 19lb injectors
-Throttle body spacer
-4.0 throttle body
-Electric fan
-High performance coil
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:36 AM   #29
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Let's all play nice and keep it friendly. This discussion is as old as the forum. There are pages and pages of the very same debate over the years.
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:22 AM   #30
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Riff Raff, you called it by the correct name. The butterfly and housing are called a throttle body, regardless of where the fuel is injected. Throttle body injection just means fuel is injected at the TB, where multi-port is injected closer to the head. Still requires a throttle body to regulate air.

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