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Old 07-18-2014, 07:00 AM   #1
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Shattered Dream

Always wanted a Jeep Wrangler, but for every reason I never bought one (kids, gas mileage, practicality all the excuses). Finally this past April I saw a 93 Wrangler and left my dreams come true. Fresh paint well taken care off the color I always wanted with rim and tire combination and to boot a 4.0L HO, with a 5-speed. So I bought it. Guts you could call it the mid life crisis car. Any ways my oldest son asked if he could drive it to work and since he has been busting his bit I figured sure. Later that night he calls me. He has spun out and hit a curb now the engine is making some strange noise. So off I run to the scene. Sure enough he had stopped at a traffic light and when pulling out while making a left turn it started to slide out. He pushed in the clutch, over corrected, and spun out sliding into the curb at about 15 to 20 MPH. No damage to the body, suspension, rim or tire obvious. However, when I started it; it now sounds as if a connecting rod is trying to jump out of the engine. Checked the oil level and it I s good, no burned smell, clean. Oil pressure is good (50) and not fluctuating. If any body has any thoughts of where I should start, or what the problem might be I would greatly appreciate it.

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Old 07-18-2014, 08:35 AM   #2
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So is it a electric fuel pump it mechanical?

If mechanical check that the mechanical fuel pump is right by the engine mount and if the impact was on that tire it could have hit the pump and slammed the engine just my best guess before coffee I tend to see Zebra's instead of horses early in the morning so take with a grain of salt.

If electric fuel pump I would still check motor mounts on side that hit curb.


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Old 07-18-2014, 08:47 AM   #3
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Thanks chief. First thought was motor mounts, but they don't show any signs of deformation. I'll check the fuel pump tonight when I get home and I am going to try and see if putting some Rislone in the oil, will pump up the hydraulic lifters in case any of them collapsed when he spun out and hit the curb
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:07 AM   #4
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Record an audio file of the noise and let us hear it that might help diagnosing also did you look at transmission mounts?

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Old 07-18-2014, 09:14 AM   #5
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Also, check the bottom of the pan. It could have a dent in it, and the co rod when it comes down, could be hitting it. ( Not to wait, as it will burn thru the pan pretty quick!!)
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:15 AM   #6
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Oh Yeah, also check the fan shroud!! If it got deformed a bit, it could be hitting the fan, or one of the rotating pullys.
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Old 07-18-2014, 04:57 PM   #7
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Hey guys thanks for all of the input. I shot a short video of the noise and engine and posted it on You Tube at the following link http://youtu.be/3JVV-z4wbJY
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:07 PM   #8
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Sounds like the fan is hitting the fan shroud. Next when my son becomes driving age he will never drive my Jeep. Because all young people think everything is a hotrod..... Jeeps are not hotrods.
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:15 PM   #9
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Thanks for the heads up. Just checked the fan shroud spacing and unfortunately the fan is not hitting the shroud, or rubbing anywhere on it.
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:24 PM   #10
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if you increase the rpm does thumping sounds also increase or stay the at the same speed?

if you put your hand on a cold engine(or hot with a glove on) do you feel any vibs in certain locations vs others?
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Old 07-18-2014, 06:41 PM   #11
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Yes the noise increases with the RPM. I have not yet placed my hand on the motor to feel for vibrations. Tomorrow I was going to try the screw driver to the ear to try and narrow down the location.
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Old 07-18-2014, 06:46 PM   #12
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Thanks for the heads up. Just checked the fan shroud spacing and unfortunately the fan is not hitting the shroud, or rubbing anywhere on it.
Then chk the oil pan for a big dent, if not a main bearing (hotrod kid) is about to go. Next I would drop the oil pan and check the main bearings... It making that kind of noise its about to go.... Should be pretty easy to find if the rod is making that kind of noise should be pretty easy to find.... the loose rod bearing will be it... I would not drive it or run it anymore till you find the problem..... Its only causing more damage to the crank. Sorry.
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Old 07-18-2014, 08:03 PM   #13
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Then chk the oil pan for a big dent, if not a main bearing (hotrod kid) is about to go. Next I would drop the oil pan and check the main bearings... It making that kind of noise its about to go.... Should be pretty easy to find if the rod is making that kind of noise should be pretty easy to find.... the loose rod bearing will be it... I would not drive it or run it anymore till you find the problem..... Its only causing more damage to the crank. Sorry.
I appreciate all of the suggestions. Tomorrow is going to be a fun day. The thing that has me confused the most is that it still has good oil pressure, the oil is clean and doesn't smell burnt. My son is not working tomorrow so humans dad are going to be under the Jeep.
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Old 07-18-2014, 08:36 PM   #14
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The oil would not smell burnt, if it just now throwing a rod, but that sound is to fast of a Knock at idle to be a rod, IMO, look for something hitting anything, before you pull the pan.
Good Luck.

With That Said, count how many times it Knocks per Min. and then Knock the Shiz out of Him that many times, or put him in Time Out That Long, how ever You do it.

Time out is best, that way he will do it again, and then you can do two out of three. LOL!
And yes I did raise mine that way, Now they Work and Respect Me for it!
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:34 PM   #15
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The oil would not smell burnt, if it just now throwing a rod, but that sound is to fast of a Knock at idle to be a rod, IMO, look for something hitting anything, before you pull the pan. Good Luck. With That Said, count how many times it Knocks per Min. and then Knock the Shiz out of Him that many times, or put him in Time Out That Long, how ever You do it. Time out is best, that way he will do it again, and then you can do two out of three. LOL! And yes I did raise mine that way, Now they Work and Respect Me for it!
LOL. He is pretty upset about breaking dad's toy. He has already opened up his bank account to pay for repairs, and is spending his free time turning wrenches until it is back up and running. The good news is when he gets his own he will know how to fix it.
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:41 PM   #16
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I don't think you got the full story from your son.....
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:24 PM   #17
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Actually I got 2 witnesses 1-a county police officer that stopped and didn't site him fir anything and a lady who was behind him at the light. But I agree something is strange.
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:02 PM   #18
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It sure sounds like the fan is hitting something. Did you look to see if maybe something got knocked into the fan's path? Maybe a vacuum line, loose wire, or something?
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:06 PM   #19
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"Slide out" means it was either wet out or he dropped the lunch at higher than usual RPM, so as to lose traction. Either way, the engine cuold have been overreved, and if so, there may be something in the valvetrain that broke and came loose and is bouncing around in the top end of the engine (no loss of oil pressure, but loss of performance probable). Also, check the bell housing for small clutch parts that may have given up.
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Old 07-19-2014, 05:32 AM   #20
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take the belt off and run it for a moment
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Old 07-19-2014, 10:26 AM   #21
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I agree with checking the fan and belt very carefully. I had a similar noise, sounded just like a rod. Ended up being a piece of the serpentine belt hitting. Just turning the fan by hand may not reveal the problem as it may only happen at a faster speed than you can turn it. I agree taking off the belt for a second would clear up external problems.
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Old 07-19-2014, 10:43 AM   #22
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Initially, audio in video definitely sounds metallic and "hollow"... try opening the Oil Filler Cap with the engine running and see if the noise gets louder.

Oil pan or Valve cover, but sounds more like top end to me.

But after listening to the engine start sequence I would might also advise focussing on Fan/Fan Clutch/Belt.
Rationale: Starter engages and the engine turns over, there is no noise until the engine catches and idles. The fan clutch may or may not allow the fan to fast enough.

Put a battery charger on the battery and disconnect the distributor? so the engine won't start.

Engage the starter for a full 10 seconds to see if the noise is mechanical from the engine block or outside as in being fan related or to see when the noise starts when the engine is turning over. Don't run the starter for more than 10 seconds at a time.
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Old 07-19-2014, 10:56 AM   #23
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Yeah, I agree, the knock is too fast at idle to be a rod, I too think it's in the top end.
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:19 PM   #24
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Initially, audio in video definitely sounds metallic and "hollow"... try opening the Oil Filler Cap with the engine running and see if the noise gets louder.

Oil pan or Valve cover, but sounds more like top end to me.

But after listening to the engine start sequence I would might also advise focussing on Fan/Fan Clutch/Belt.
Rationale: Starter engages and the engine turns over, there is no noise until the engine catches and idles. The fan clutch may or may not allow the fan to fast enough.

Put a battery charger on the battery and disconnect the distributor? so the engine won't start.

Engage the starter for a full 10 seconds to see if the noise is mechanical from the engine block or outside as in being fan related or to see when the noise starts when the engine is turning over. Don't run the starter for more than 10 seconds at a time.
This is good all the years of working on Autos and I never thought of this, Thanks for the Tip. But you can run the Starter for more like 30 seconds but then have to let it cool for quiet a while, same basic motor on your Winch, I like that motor it while not running to hear better. Thanks
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Old 07-19-2014, 02:18 PM   #25
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This is good all the years of working on Autos and I never thought of this, Thanks for the Tip. But you can run the Starter for more like 30 seconds but then have to let it cool for quiet a while, same basic motor on your Winch, I like that motor it while not running to hear better. Thanks
Yeah a good long turn would help too, but the 10 seconds would give you more instances to zero in on the source and not cause excessive wear.

And then really reaching, AC compressor/clutch assy? Try turning AC on/off and see if it explodes... just kidding about the explode part, but I know how important this is to you.

The neat thing about using your camera is that while recording the next video you could CAREFULLY place the camera further into the engine compartment and move it around to any available spaces to help determine where the noise is actually coming from.
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Old 07-19-2014, 04:22 PM   #26
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Current update. I started with the fan shroud, proceeded to removing the belt and thus and have found the sound persisted. From there I have places my hand on the engine and the screw driver to the ear and have listened. Major vibration was felt around 2 and 3 cylinder, and around 5 cylinder. The noise was loudest near the top of the block. I place a wooden dowl in the cylinder through each spark plug hole and utilizing the starter checked each plug location. The dowel moved up and down through on all 6 cylinders. Pulling the valve cover revealed all if the rocket arms to be stiff and no excessive play. Last but not least drained through a screen the oil found no metal shavings and lastly dropped the oil pan. No visible scaring or marks were observed on the bottom if the crank the seats we're secure and showed no signs of movement. Yes the most important thing there was no metal shavings, pieces or particles found in the pan. Next is to pull the motor all the way out and see if I can find anything from there.
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Old 07-19-2014, 05:02 PM   #27
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Still sounds like a top end issue, and from what you've already checked, may be a bad valve? The sound in the video changed with rpm.

Have you done a compression check?
Since you've pulled the plugs, do all the plugs look clean/all the same?

If you did the cranking test, did the sound appear again, or did it only appear with ignition?

Regardless, if you are pulling the engine you'll find something soon enough.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:47 AM   #28
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Okay spent yesterday removing the front clip and pulled the engine and transmission together. Now that both are out and there is nothing In The engine bay I am debating between using a spray in bed liner or to plasti-dip in the engine compartment to prevent any rust developing in the future. Any thoughts? I'll keep you all posted on what I find as I take the engine complete apart. From first view no signs of any cracks or deformation in the block. The only interesting thing is that the clutch hydraulic fluid was empty. Besides the loud knocking this is the 1st flag of something that was not the same as before the spin out.
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Old 07-21-2014, 02:05 PM   #29
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I am a fan of plasti dip it is cheap and if you are unhappy with it pull it off and start over or try something else.

Let us know what you find that is a strange sound not one I was expecting or have heard before. No I am very curious.

As far as the kid goes I have a feeling he feels really bad so forgive him I know I screwed up plenty when I was young!

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Old 07-21-2014, 08:06 PM   #30
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I am a fan of plasti dip it is cheap and if you are unhappy with it pull it off and start over or try something else. Let us know what you find that is a strange sound not one I was expecting or have heard before. No I am very curious. As far as the kid goes I have a feeling he feels really bad so forgive him I know I screwed up plenty when I was young! Chief Chief
Thanks for the input on the plasti-dip. I think I am going to use flat black. Must say in a way I am enjoying that this has happened it is giving my son and me a lot of bonding time. Since pulling the motor he has spent this evening with a wire brush and sand paper to the inside of the engine compartment prepping for priming and paint.

He has even brought up the idea of painting the engine as we rebuild it. His claim is not only will it look good, but it would be easier to see any leaks after reassembly

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