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Old 09-08-2011, 11:10 AM   #1
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Cool '79 CJ5 help please

Newbie here!

I subscribe to the fact that no one knows as much as all of us!

My first task is to research threads on my '79 CJ5 and find out why I am over heating with a dual fan and shroud set up I had installed. I have a freshly rebuit 304 with an Isky RV cam for torque. I also have a 650 cfm, 4 barrel, Edlebrock carb and intake manifold. The problem I am having with this set up is the temperature gradually climbs past the middle of the stock gauge and then starts to run as if it only has four cyclinders and misses terribly. All componenents are new in the last two years. i.e. radiator, heatercore, water pump, thermostat, wires, plugs etc.

I think the problems is in the carb. I have the off-road option in the carb. as 90% of the traveling I do is on logging roads.

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Old 09-08-2011, 11:14 AM   #2
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I bet you need a better insulator between the intake and the carb....its boiling the gas and making it run like crap I bet.

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Old 09-08-2011, 11:20 AM   #3
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Interesting. I switched from side exhaust to full exhaust out the back and also went to a off road carb (Holley truck avenger). I think my jeep wants to run a little warmer now.

I just switched from my stock fan (no shroud) to a dual fan setup. Although i haven't wheeled it yet, I can tell a big difference.

I have a similiar engine setup but I am running a flowkooler water pump.

Are you getting any black smoke?
What size thermostat?
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:21 AM   #4
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Where do I purchase that item and what do you suggest the spacer thickness should be?
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:23 AM   #5
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No smoke that I can see and I believe it's a 180 degree thermostat. The waterpump is a stock Napa waterpump.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:27 AM   #6
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I have a 3 core radiator. I have been told that it is adequate. Thinking maybe not. Boiling gas in my carb. is also a consideration. After it cools down sometimes it runs better and sometimes not.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:56 AM   #7
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Look at 4wd.com for the waterpump.

3 core should be good. Mine is a 2 core.

Is the ignition system stock?
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:07 PM   #8
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The distributor is but the box is an MSD offroad. I have the inside the frame dual exhaust out the back and turned to the side to minimize the exhaust coming into the Jeep from the rear.

Ibuildthembig said I need a bigger insulator between the carb and manifold. That makes sense to me also.

BTW thanks for your help!

.
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:15 PM   #9
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That will be a easy test. You could get a small spacer and that would give u 2 gaskets of insulation.

Sounds like everything else is good.
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:18 PM   #10
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I had the same issue with my BBF in my beater truck. This is what fixed mine...

Edelbrock 9265 - Edelbrock Heat Insulator Gaskets - Overview - SummitRacing.com
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:22 PM   #11
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Done that! Going on a Dyno tomorrow. Will keep you informed of the results. Thanks!
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Old 09-17-2011, 01:43 PM   #12
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The dyno revealed too big a carb for a 304. I have a Edlebrock Performer series 600-700 cfm four barrel carb and manifold on it now. The mechanic went 14 sizes down in the front jets and 10 in the rear. The vehicle ran excellent except when going up a steep hill it stumbled. The fix is to get a smaller 450 - 500 cfm carburetor and hopefully I can use the old intake manifold. Anyone been through this before?
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Old 09-17-2011, 04:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teefehr
The dyno revealed too big a carb for a 304. I have a Edlebrock Performer series 600-700 cfm four barrel carb and manifold on it now. The mechanic went 14 sizes down in the front jets and 10 in the rear. The vehicle ran excellent except when going up a steep hill it stumbled. The fix is to get a smaller 450 - 500 cfm carburetor and hopefully I can use the old intake manifold. Anyone been through this before?
I ran a Holley 650 for years and ran well except on hills. I replaced it with a Holley 470 truck avenger earlier this year. I used the same edelbrock performer intake. It still runs good on the road but does awesome off road. I might have lost a little horsepower but i have plenty to spare. They can be bought for about $400. I got lucky and found a used one with 250 miles on it for about half.
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Old 09-18-2011, 11:23 AM   #14
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Dempsey,

Thanks for the confirmation. I don't want to keep pouring money into this rig without results!

I run dual flexlite fans. I was coming out of my hunting area last night and it heated up to about 3/4. Will a smaller carb fix the overheating problem. I have the fans adjusted to the minus sign on the radiator control. This aapears to cause the fans to come on more often. I had some wiring issues from the guy that insatlled this fan that I believe are now fixed. The shop where I had it installed used one 14 gauge wire to two 14 gauge wires to run both fans. I replaced the one 14 gauge wire to a 12 gauge. The wire is not heating up and shorting out inside the crimped connector like the previous one did.

I have a neighbor that's got a new 450/500 cfm Carter. He wants to do a trade on the Edlebrock 650 carb. Will that work. I have heard about the truck Avenger's and they are $326.00 when I Nexttag it through Summit.

Thanks again for the help. Trust me, it is appreciated more than you will ever know.
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Old 09-18-2011, 11:40 AM   #15
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Dempsey,

Did you need an adapter plate or a spacer between the carb and intake manifold? I have phenolic spacer between the Edlebrock carb and the intake manifold to reduce conductive heat between the manifold and carb. Did the truck Avenger carb come with the correct jets?

One thing I like about the Carter is the smaller primaries. I believe I would get better mileage with that Carb. Your thoughts on these issues will be greatly appreciated.
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Old 09-18-2011, 12:18 PM   #16
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First question is what is nexttag?

Now I am running a dual electric fan setup off some ford car. It covers the entire radiator. It pulls 27.5 amps so I am running 10 gauge wiring.

Anyway. I have a 30 over 304 with a decent cam, flowkooler water pump, DUI dizzy, stock radiator, alum intake and 470 carb. Since I got the fans my jeep is running 200 degrees.

I can't say how the carb will affect running cooler but if you want to offroad and run a 4 barrel it is the best and easiest way IMO. I do know that if the spark, gas, etc isn't right it will run bad.

I don't think there will be any issues with swapping. I wouldn't swap carbs with the guy because I don't think it will help improve off road.

I'd call Holley and talk to a tech.
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Old 09-18-2011, 04:17 PM   #17
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Nextag - Compare Prices Before you Buy Check it out for comparing prices. I just ordered a bird dog trainers for my pups. Prices can range 10% - 15% higher than the lowest price. Lowest price with free shipping and no tax is what I'm after. Our built in microwave went south after 32 years. I priced one locally and found the same thing online for $120.00 cheaper.

I'll switch my fan wiring to 10 gauge. Flowkooler water pump may be an option also. The water pump issue is that I am running a new stock water pump. Are they that much better? I have a MSD6 offroad. Stock distributor. MSD Coil. The guy that dyno'ed my Jeep said Truck Avenger first thing. He also said Carter would be a good carb. too.

I'm off to do some changes. Thanks again your help is appreciated.
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Old 09-18-2011, 04:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teefehr
Nextag - Compare Prices Before you Buy Check it out for comparing prices. I just ordered a bird dog trainers for my pups. Prices can range 10% - 15% higher than the lowest price. Lowest price with free shipping and no tax is what I'm after. Our built in microwave went south after 32 years. I priced one locally and found the same thing online for $120.00 cheaper.

I'll switch my fan wiring to 10 gauge. Flowkooler water pump may be an option also. The water pump issue is that I am running a new stock water pump. Are they that much better? I have a MSD6 offroad. Stock distributor. MSD Coil. The guy that dyno'ed my Jeep said Truck Avenger first thing. He also said Carter would be a good carb. too.

I'm off to do some changes. Thanks again your help is appreciated.
I was just comparing my setup
To yours for reference. I'd upsize wire just to be safe. Also check to make sure your relay isn't getting hot. I melted my first fuse holder. I'd wait on the waterpump until you get the carb setup done right.

I have heard nothing but good stuff about the truck avenger and I had good luck. It came off a similar setup 304 so I have done nothing but adjust idle.

Hope that helps.
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Old 09-19-2011, 12:39 AM   #19
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Jeep CJ These are my fans. 573 is the model number. Note the draw is 22 amps and require a 12 gauge wire to the fan motor per installation instructions. http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/575-99751.pdf
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Old 09-22-2011, 04:33 PM   #20
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Bought a new truck avenger 470 cfm carb. After flushing my coolant and installing a 180 degree F thermostat and running it up some hills it still heated up. Digital infrared thermometer en-route. Flex-a-lite is also confused. They are suggesting if this does not work a bigger fan motors will fix the problem. So goes the battle! I should have won the war by this time next week. Anyone use the Cen-tech infrared digital thermometers?
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teefehr
Bought a new truck avenger 470 cfm carb. After flushing my coolant and installing a 180 degree F thermostat and running it up some hills it still heated up. Digital infrared thermometer en-route. Flex-a-lite is also confused. They are suggesting if this does not work a bigger fan motors will fix the problem. So goes the battle! I should have won the war by this time next week. Anyone use the Cen-tech infrared digital thermometers?
Well how did the carb do?
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:42 AM   #22
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Carb is enroute. Should be here next week.
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Old 09-23-2011, 11:55 PM   #23
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Dempsey,

I was on Summit Racing page tonight and it quoted the Holley 470 truck avenger as not being for a v8 motor.To be used on a 4 cylider or v6 motor only. It said it would not do well on the street but would do well off-road.

WTH??????
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:10 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teefehr View Post
Dempsey,

I was on Summit Racing page tonight and it quoted the Holley 470 truck avenger as not being for a v8 motor.To be used on a 4 cylider or v6 motor only. It said it would not do well on the street but would do well off-road.

WTH??????
Well it surprises me that Summit would be different than Holley's website. Here is their carb selector feature. It clearly shows that for off road the 470 is the option for the 304.
Holley Interactive Carburetor Selector

Now I have put about 100 miles on the street with mine with no issues. It runs as well as my quickfuel 650 on the street and will actually run off road.

But if you don't really trust my opinion, which is fine. Give Summit a call and ask someone that works the phone what you should buy because they know more than someone who built there jeep from the ground up...obviously. Or better yet buy that 600 carter AFB piece of junk because everybody else is running carter's today.

My last piece of advice for you is that dont always listen to people tell you what to do. If I only installed what "fit" by some guide I wouldn't be running 1/2 the stuff on my jeep.
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Old 09-24-2011, 11:36 AM   #25
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Thanks Dempsey. I went to the Holley Interactive Carb Selector right after I posted this last night. The immediaste results was the Truck Avenger 470. This baby should be here Tuesday!

I appreciate all the support and advice. There is so much information out there it's mind boggling.

The overheat issue will be addressed after the new carb is on and tuned. Flex-a-lite has stepped up and said they will send a bigger fan motor and blades if I still have the overheating problem. The flex-a-lite tech I spoke to today said the set-up I have now will cool a 350. I can't help but feel the old carb is building too much heat in the motor???? I am hoping the new carb will fix this problem.

Any idea what your air to fuel ratio is? Where do you run your timing? I am running mine at 8* BTC. I noticed that I get a slight dieseling in the hot weather with my current set-up.

Need some mountain time and get the jeep back on the trail.
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Old 09-24-2011, 11:49 AM   #26
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Next up is suspension. I'm running a 2 1/2" Skyjacker lift which includes their v-8 leaf springs and shocks. I need to take the shudder bumps and pot holes out of the logging roads. I am running my tire pressures at 18 psi. I run 35" x 12.5 Toyo tires. Any suggestions?
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:27 PM   #27
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What is your wheel width? If you're running a 12.50 tire on an 8" wheel you can safely air down to 10-12 Psi without worry. I run mine in the 12 psi range and haven't (yet) blown one off the rim. The ride is much better. You really don't start seeing the benefits of airing down until you get in sub 15 psi numbers.
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:43 PM   #28
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Thanks Ageless! Good information.
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:46 PM   #29
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Dempsey, I'm thinking about running a phenolic spacer between the new carb and manifold. Interested in your opinion.
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Old 09-24-2011, 08:28 PM   #30
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If it is dieseling then your timing is probably set too high. As far as timing, mine will be different because I have a different cam. Refer to your cam card if it isn't stock size.

AS answered the wheel question. I run the same as him.

I think the spacer is a good idea. I have a small one on mine. The double gaskets give an added thermal break too.

I wheeled mine today and with the factory fan I hit temps around 230. With my new fans I never saw 210. Very pleased.

I think you will like the carb. I love mine. I got in a bind today going down hill and it restarted easy when I killed it. Lol

I run a yj ome lift and like it a lot.

I think that answered all your questions.

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