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Old 03-10-2013, 10:26 PM   #31
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I am not a welding guru by any means but as i understand it you shouldn't need them because you have your inner structure that is taking that load off the weld itself.

Don't kill me if I am wrong

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Old 03-10-2013, 11:44 PM   #32
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Black Magic Brakes, I plan on hauling my family around in this jeep and I want it to be as safe as possible, you really think it would be fine without the outer fish plates?
Judging by the quality of the welds and workmanship so far, plating them on the inside will be more than sufficient. You have to remember also to move them out past the ends of the internal bracing you did so you spread the hard non flexing spot out and don't create a giant stress riser all in the same spot.

I've extended several frames in identical fashion and have never had a single issue with a fish plate on one side.

The other thing to note is with the way you have it done, it won't fail catastrophically due to the plug welds and the inner structure you have. Cracks will start and you will be able to see them.

Remember, at the end of the day, you are still rolling around on a frame that only has .150 thick walls and you are so past that in the overkill area with that inner bracing that you could easily get by with no fish plates.

We tend to overbuild the crap out of stuff because we lack the engineering skills to make it work any other way.

I have a custom built Jeep trailer rated at just over 10,000 lbs which I load to that capacity quite frequently. I also run a measured 1200 lbs of tongue weight.

The A frame tongue is made from 2 x 4 rectangular tube with a .125 wall thickness. It has not cracked, deformed, or even hinted at not being able to do the job.

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Old 03-11-2013, 12:29 AM   #33
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If your worried about the rear axle being too bug and hitting the gas tank genright makes a good tank that keeps the stock amount of fuel and gives you room for an axle stretch so there is room for the 14 bolt. It's a little pricey but it looks pretty solid since it changes the plastic tank to an aluminum one with a skid.

http://www.genright.com/ProductInfo....ductid=GST2002

Awesome thread by the way and it looks like your doing some quality work!
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:27 AM   #34
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Thanks for the replies everyone, at the least I will fish plate the inner frame rails but I'll have to think about the outer, I had not thought about what Black Magic Brakes mentioned about creating a hard section of frame that will not flex with the rest of the Frame.
As for the genrite tank I looked at them but it will eat up way too much of my 1 ton swap budget. As it is I need to sell my ltz 400 to afford 40" tires
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:27 AM   #35
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Here's a few action shots dad sent me


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Old 03-11-2013, 09:41 AM   #36
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Which welder do you have?
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:49 AM   #37
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:21 PM   #38
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I think it will be fine with just an inner fish plate as well, what Blaine said makes a lot of sense. This rig is gona look great.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:48 PM   #39
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Looking good Bob, anxious to see it in person.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:49 PM   #40
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Let me know when you want to start your Matt .

I talked to an engineer at work today who used to work in the chassis division at GM. He says I will be fine without any fishplates. He basically confirmed what Black Magic Brakes said about creating too ridged of a stress point and due to the plug welds and inner sleeves It would be highly unlikely to have a full separation of the joint.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:53 PM   #41
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Seeing how easy (well, relatively) it is, I might end up doing it at some point. Looking to pick up a good used welder sometime soon.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:37 PM   #42
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Let me know when you want to start your Matt .

I talked to an engineer at work today who used to work in the chassis division at GM. He says I will be fine without any fishplates. He basically confirmed what Black Magic Brakes said about creating too ridged of a stress point and due to the plug welds and inner sleeves It would be highly unlikely to have a full separation of the joint.
The only thing I would have done even remotely differently is to leave a very small gap between the ends of the frame tube so that I was guaranteed to weld both ends to the inner sleeve.

Like I said though, I can tell from the pics that the craftsmanship is good and you won't have any issues.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:38 PM   #43
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Seeing how easy (well, relatively) it is, I might end up doing it at some point. Looking to pick up a good used welder sometime soon.
Stretching the frame is by far the easiest part of the whole thing. Getting the rest of it correct, finished, and dialed in is where the work comes in.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:02 PM   #44
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Funny you should mention a gap, since the frame ends were dressed up by hand with a grinder there were spots where the inner sleeve showed through and I am sure the weld reached it. I feel confident now that I will be fine without any fishplates. Thanks again for the compliments and replies.

Matt, the tedious part of this project hasn't been started yet, stop over when I start making the new floor and side panels
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:00 AM   #45
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Stretching the frame is by far the easiest part of the whole thing. Getting the rest of it correct, finished, and dialed in is where the work comes in.
Completely understand, but even so unless things have changed I believe he's going for a somewhat stock LJ style suspension for now until he gets his other axles built, so for now it shouldn't be bad.

Regardless when or if I ever do something similar, I'll probably follow a similar path. Won't be for a while though, need to buy a house before I can justify ripping apart the TJ.

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Matt, the tedious part of this project hasn't been started yet, stop over when I start making the new floor and side panels
That's precisely where I'll refer to you. I've been studying suspension for a while, but body work is definitely not my forte. Anxious to see how the body turns out.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:28 PM   #46
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The truss, diff cover, and shave kit for the 14bolt rear from Ballistic fabrication is waiting at the house for me, I'll post some pics when I get home. I also ordered the soft top retainer rails for an LJ from the dealer and dropped my driveshaft off to be lengthened today. I won't get a chance to work on it again until the weekend though.
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:35 PM   #47
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If anyone else decides to jump into a project like this here are the dealer part numbers for the lj belt rails (the part you tuck the soft top into on the top of the tub.
56052 374AA (right) and 56052 375AA (left) lj tub rails It was $70 for the pair.
here are a few pics of the goodies from ballistic fab.
Coolest looking diff cover ever!


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Old 03-13-2013, 09:52 PM   #48
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If you haven't bought a tank yet. Another user on here cut his skid and bent it to allow for more clearance, then heated his tank up and used ratchet straps to make it conform to the modded skid.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:13 PM   #49
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If you haven't bought a tank yet. Another user on here cut his skid and bent it to allow for more clearance, then heated his tank up and used ratchet straps to make it conform to the modded skid.
I plan on keeping the stock tank, I have a Rokmen gas tank skid, I'm not opposed to altering the tank skid, but I am not putting heat to a plastic gas tank, no thanks
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:46 PM   #50
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Quote:
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I plan on keeping the stock tank, I have a Rokmen gas tank skid, I'm not opposed to altering the tank skid, but I am not putting heat to a plastic gas tank, no thanks
I wish I could remember where I saw it so I could show you, maybe it was on forbiddenjeeps.com. But he had a 14 bolt rear, and it was a small notch just wide enough for the diff to clear all parameters. Then put the tank on it and ratcheted down and heated the metal part, so there wasn't a risk of burning a hole or starting a fire, and as it warmed the plastic he ratcheted tighter and tighter and the tank conformed to the skid. Let cool and it holds it's shape. I would do it. But it's understandable if you don't. Just a way to gain a couple more inches in the stretch.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:08 PM   #51
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Quote:
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I plan on keeping the stock tank, I have a Rokmen gas tank skid, I'm not opposed to altering the tank skid, but I am not putting heat to a plastic gas tank, no thanks
I've got the same skid. I just put it on and it seems pretty sturdy. I get to test it this weekend in slade ky
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:45 PM   #52
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I did some grinding this morning and welded the body mounts back into the frame. I'm going to pick up my brake line tomorrow, still not sure want the best way to extent to fuel line is though.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:02 PM   #53
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Finished grinding the outside of the frame and I decided not to grind the inner frame. Here's a shot of the body mounts back on with a little paint on it.

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Old 03-15-2013, 10:22 PM   #54
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When I first saw this thread pop up, I thought it was some kind of typo. I'm glad I was wrong, because this is really cool to watch.

Sub'd.
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:05 PM   #55
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Nothing too exciting today, I extended the exhaust, and the fuel pump wiring, and I ran a new rear brake line and fuel return line. Tomorrow I'll extend the fuel feed line then I'm ready to put the body back on and start making the floor.

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Old 03-16-2013, 05:53 PM   #56
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Really awesome work man, looking great.
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:19 AM   #57
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Thanks.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:33 PM   #58
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I finished the fuel line and a friend stopped over to help me set the tub back on. Now its all down to body work
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:41 PM   #59
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This is going to be bad a$$ but I was just wondering what's the length difference going to be between your extended TJ and an LJ?
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:08 PM   #60
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Not my build but based on stock axle positions this one would be 5 inches longer than an LJ

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