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Old 12-05-2012, 07:54 PM   #61
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You guys are making me want to move to a county without emissions even more so.

41mpg

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Old 12-05-2012, 07:58 PM   #62
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You guys are making me want to move to a county without emissions even more so.

41mpg
That mpg was in The stock Jetta Wagon, keep that in mind. IDK what they do in a Jeep.

Also probably no need too move. Most places, if you fail emissions twice you just pay a $150 fine and then they except The vehicle

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Old 12-05-2012, 08:12 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by jasongind View Post
That mpg was in The stock Jetta Wagon, keep that in mind. IDK what they do in a Jeep.

Also probably no need too move. Most places, if you fail emissions twice you just pay a $150 fine and then they except The vehicle
Still Ive heard of 35mpg with 35" tires and 3.55 gears, I'm looking at 15-16mpg with 33s and 3.73 gears

Idk about that here. I think theres only 2 counties in TN that requires emissions, and of course I had to move into one of them.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:21 PM   #64
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I know that in new York of you fail emissions. You either get it fixed until it does pass. Or it is not longer legal to drive
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:52 PM   #65
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Still Ive heard of 35mpg with 35" tires and 3.55 gears, I'm looking at 15-16mpg with 33s and 3.73 gears

Idk about that here. I think theres only 2 counties in TN that requires emissions, and of course I had to move into one of them.
35mpg I'm a Jeep would be so awesome. I'm running 35's with 4:10's right now & get about 12.6mpg in town. It is a pig too, does not like too accelerate & 5th gear is pretty much worthless. Can't wait too do my 4:88's.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:03 PM   #66
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The intake slogging with soot is an issue to keep in the back of your mind, it irritated me when mine was getting difficult to start. I had to remove & clean the intake once, then EGR delete, went from 46-48mpg to 48-50mpg. EGR is the most idiotic idea ever, to force air into the combustion chamber that has already been depleted of O2???

Just use the EGR to pass your emissions then delete it, or use a blocker plate. Are you a member on the TDI club?
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:08 PM   #67
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The intake slogging with soot is an issue to keep in the back of your mind, it irritated me when mine was getting difficult to start. I had to remove & clean the intake once, then EGR delete, went from 46-48mpg to 48-50mpg. EGR is the most idiotic idea ever, to force air into the combustion chamber that has already been depleted of O2???

Just use the EGR to pass your emissions then delete it, or use a blocker plate. Are you a member on the TDI club?
I was really considering it with my Jetta, then decided not too. If you do some research into it The egr delete can damage The motor. It takes a lot longer for The motor too warm up, & The are many reports of it causing over heating issues.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:52 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasongind View Post
That mpg was in The stock Jetta Wagon, keep that in mind. IDK what they do in a Jeep.



Also probably no need too move. Most places, if you fail emissions twice you just pay a $150 fine and then they except The vehicle

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I was really considering it with my Jetta, then decided not too. If you do some research into it The egr delete can damage The motor. It takes a lot longer for The motor too warm up, & The are many reports of it causing over heating issues.
I expect 25 all-around. Like you, my last TJ was 12's, but we drive them for other reasons and accept the mileage as part of the overhead. I'm doing this as part personal challenge, part increased trail range, and part to keep my skills sharp.

This engine had about 77k and had, what I would consider, normal amount of carbon. I cleaned-up the EGR and intake with a rag and some elbow grease, as it was all pretty soft and not coked. In the cooled EGR diesel world, it's like an accpeted part of service with techs, some systems/drivers/fuel/variables more condusive to carbon build-up than others. Only time and driver will tell.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:03 PM   #69
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I was really considering it with my Jetta, then decided not too. If you do some research into it The egr delete can damage The motor. It takes a lot longer for The motor too warm up, & The are many reports of it causing over heating issues.
When I deleted my EGR I fully understood what I was getting into, when this engine was designed EGR was a part of that design. If you change anything that will alter your AFR/combustion properties then it's a good idea to get it professionally tuned. Just blocking the EGR system w/o changing any of the tuning isn't a good idea, not saying people haven't done it successfully.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:00 PM   #70
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Now at 300 more miles. I blew a charge air cooler connector o ring and had to tighten a few fuel line connectors, other than that its been a hoot to drive.

I'm impressed.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:40 PM   #71
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:52 PM   #72
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So far the Jeep is averaging 25 mpg, combined city and freeway driving in southern California. I've been driving with a heavy throttle, partly for component testing, but mostly because it's been fun to drive. There are a few items that deserve note:

The stock 4.10's work ok, but it could benefit from 4.30's or even 4.56 ratio with the 33's. On the highway, it's not an issue, as even in 5th it has pulled every on-ramp and mountain grade without lugging to maintain uphill speed. In low range 1st gear, it idles through ditches and over easier obstacles without any throttle, since the PCM compensates for reduction in idle rpm (to a degree, you can still stall it).

The engine sits about 2" further aft than the 2.5.

The Nth Degree transfer case mounts do not dampen engine vibrations as well as the Volvo mounts used up-front. End-result is slightly more vibration at idle, but normal while in motion.

I plumbed the heater core inlet to take coolant from the EGR cooler out port, so you get interior heat quickly.

This engine uses a variable geometry turbocharger, which is a good thing. On the down side, it's constanly modulating and thus the pitch/sound of the thing is noticeable inside and outside the cab. Neighbor said it sounded like a mini 737 when I was wheeling in the field the other day. In stock form, the VW has a big airbox with paper pleat air filter, as well as some restrictive and somewhat sound-deadening intake plumbing. The conversion uses an oiled-cotton filter and pretty straight-thru tubing runners including the air/water intercooler. Expect some looks on the street when up and downshifting.

So that's about it. I reckon with sane driving you could get a little better economy, perhaps significantly better. But 25 for hammer the heck outta it so far isn't too bad.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:21 PM   #73
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Thats awesome. I always loved The sounds of my ALH turbo spooling. It would sound even better from a Jeep LOL.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:13 PM   #74
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One thing is for sure, it was an awesome learning experience. The only recurring problem are air leaks that have developed along the boost track. I admit, though, that I've been working it hard to try and get a fail so's to build-in a fix for the next rig.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:03 PM   #75
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Cold start this morning - 28f, with no problems. I will integrate a preheat indicator in the instrument cluster eventually, but for now I just wait 3-5 seconds. Fuel economy is holding at 25.1 mostly town driving with a few freeway trips, and some light wheeling off-road. Transmission and clutch holding-up fine; interior warms quickly thanks to scavenging EGR cooler-heated coolant straight into the the heater core.
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Old 12-22-2012, 06:02 PM   #76
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Depending on your altitude 3-5 sec isn't enough time too pre heat. When I was At sea level it was, once I got in Denver my pre heat lamp would stay on for 25-30 sec on cold mornings. So that indicator can come I handy.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:48 PM   #77
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Cold start this AM; 5 second pre heat @ 33f. Had a chance to drive it several days in the heavy rains earlier this week with no troubles. In Atlanta metro traffic is it averaging 25.2 MPG.
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:59 PM   #78
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Looks like 25 is top of the mark with normal driving, meaning mostly suburban stop-and-go (70%) and freeway to 75mph (30%). Been pretty agressive, truthfully, since it's neat to drive a Wrangler that actually can get out of it's own way

Is it worth it? If you like diesels, sure, why not. The sound has drawn more looks and questions than I was expecting. The idle torque is really the best part, and where it really shines. It's light, fast, and sounds cool. It'll never get better than mid-high twenties; A lifted Jeep is an areodynamic brick that works hard to part the wind. It sucks fuel and that's just they way it is, yo.

If your looking for increased fuel economy, buy a Daihatsu.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:17 PM   #79
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20+ is no joke though. Especially with the amount of torque. I am truly envious.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:01 PM   #80
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Same here. That millage is awesome for a brick. Very nice work there bro, I bow to your knowledge and skill.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:09 PM   #81
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This is really cool, my dad has a TDI Jetta. I think it would be fun to feel what that's like in the Jeep. Nice work and definitely jealous of the mileage.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:25 PM   #82
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Same here. That millage is awesome for a brick. Very nice work there bro, I bow to your knowledge and skill.
I appreciate the comps, guys, I REALLY do

I just want to be clear that the rumors that you can get a 38mpg trail rig out of this conversion are not likely. A stock unloaded clothtop SE, maybe 30 with granmaw driving. Romp-throttle, mud/dirt/sand, metro-jungle reality will return 20's.

This is a challenging conversion. The vendor supplies the hardware, but you must build and reason-out the architecture for the powertrain management system. Man, though, it's soooooooooo cool to drive a Jeep Wrangler that responds like a Duramax, and little-to-no soot.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:25 PM   #83
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You should make these for a living, I would get one. Once you figure it all out it would be easy for you to do again.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:56 PM   #84
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You should make these for a living, I would get one. Once you figure it all out it would be easy for you to do again.
All i know is if i had serious cash to invest, id certainly pay him to do this conversion to my TJ
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:46 PM   #85
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Had a few questions about wiring. It is VERY HELPFUL to use Mitchell On-Demand/Snap-On Shopkey for your wiring diagrams; save doc, goto Kinkos and have them print the four pages on a plotter, paste to a science project display. You'll have a reference chart that spells-out the circuit design and you can reference it easily without going crazy. VW and Bentley pubs are excellent but they use what is called "Current Track" wiring diagrams, which are for diagnostic purposes only. If you attempt to reverse-engineer a current track set of documents your head will explode
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:13 PM   #86
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More finished harness and wired accelerator pics. I labeled each connector and module per VW parlance. That way, the system mirrors a VW A4 setup for diagnostic and repair purposes.

A Painless Wiring aux 7-bank switched circuit center provides a fast, easy solution for the powered, fused circuits on the VW side, as well as aux fans, pump, and accessories.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:18 PM   #87
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More. First pic is of an electronic voltage regulator I sourced from Ebay. It is NOS for a 1981 Toyota Land Cruiser; what's important is it works perfectly with the externally regulated Denso/Jeep alternator, with a set voltage of 14.22v. Robust, small, and spec'd for heavy-duty use.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:25 PM   #88
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This is the VW main load fuse box. I mounted it next to the jeep external fuse box, and ran the main tap from there (green fusible link, alternator). Top to bottom: 150 amp alternator, 110 amp system, 40 amp glow plug controller, 50 amp cooling fan.

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Accelerator pedal position in respect to brake and clutch:

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Old 01-28-2013, 07:48 PM   #89
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:47 AM   #90
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I'm a big fan of diesels, when the wife and I first got married and had no money she and I both had diesel rabbits (early 80's). Paid next to nothing for them (used) one had 100K and the other 155K on the motors when we purchased them. We each drove those things into the ground, I sold the last one for twice what I paid for it in 2000 with 650K miles on the speedo. The bad thing about the VW's were the electronics and these were caused normally by water leaks and shorting stuff out. But with enough relays I was able to keep the things running and they both got over 50 mpg.

I guess my question (or rambling thought's are) the older diesels needed power to the pump, power to the solenoid on the injector pump and power to the glow plugs to start and run, nothing else. With today's more electronic driven engines I can see a massive headache attempting to do a conversion.

I now own a 2000 Dodge 2500 diesel quad cab, 4x4 and get 25 mpg at 60 mph, 22 mpg and 70 mph and the truck almost weighs 8K pounds. Now it has it's share of electronics, but the older Cummins motors in the Dodge pick-ups had NO electronics, give it 12 volts and the b*tch would run all day until it ran out of fuel. I have helped do swaps in Class C motor homes using this motor and the motor home went from getting 6 - 7 mpg to 23 mpg. Granted the motors were rated for 145 - 165 hp, but that was stump pulling HP that I believe a Jeeper would love.

I was really hoping Fiat would put the diesel in the Wrangler for 2014, for the sole reason that Wrangler buyers (be it a small %) take the damn thing off road, the rest are Soccer Mom commuter vehicles at least in the No VA area where I live. But Fiat and the bean counters have deem it necessary to put the diesel in the Grand PoBa machine..........what a waste IMHO.

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