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Old 04-20-2013, 06:35 PM   #1
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Need help with my YJ

I posted this up in the General Discussion also, but figure there will be more YJ gurus here. Hope to get this issue resolved soon.

I drove my YJ yesterday and had no problems. Get into it today, it starts fine, then hesistates, then stalled. Will not restart. I have no spark, I checked the rotor, looks nice and clean, plugs and wires look good. I replaced the Crank Postions Sensor and still no difference. I checked for the error code and here is what I have. 11 33 21 52 21 51 55. Not really sure what these mean, but I am sure there is a Jeep guru on here that does. Thank you in advance for any advice you may have.

Jeff


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Old 04-20-2013, 09:10 PM   #2
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SELF-DIAGNOSTIC CODES (1991 and later models):
CODE: Probable Cause:

11 Ignition

13 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Vacuum

14 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Electrical

15 Distance Sensor or Circuit

17 Engine Running Too Cool

21 Oxygen Sensor or Circuit

22 Coolant Temperature Sensor or Circuit

23 MAT Sensor or Circuit

24 Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) sensor or Circuit

25 Automatic Idle Speed (AIS) Circuit

27 Fuel Injector Control

33 Air Conditioning Clutch Relay

41 Alternator Field

42 Automatic Shutdown Relay

44 Battery Temperature Sensor

46 Battery Over Voltage

47 Battery Under Voltage

51 Oxygen Sensor - lean condition indicated

52 Oxygen Sensor - rich condition indicated

53 Internal Engine Controller Fault

54 Distributor Sync Pickup

55 End of Code Output

62 Emissions Maintenance Reminder (EMR) mileage accumulator

63 Controller Failure EEPROM write denied

*Mostly Thanks To The Haynes Manual*

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Old 04-20-2013, 10:44 PM   #3
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A little more info. I poured a little gas directly into the intake and nothing different happened. I also had my wife turn the key to the accessory position and I could hear the fuel pump prime. Additionally, I pulled a spark plug and placed a screwdriver between it and the engine block, no spark visible. I know this should be an easy fix,but I am at my wits end. Looking forward to any responses.

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Old 04-20-2013, 11:24 PM   #4
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Try posting a little more detail about your jeep, engine/manual trans/miles etc.


You said you replaced the CKS crankshaft sensor. Did you reset the ECU
afterwards? I have herd it takes the computer a bit to recognize the new sensor.

There is also a camshaft position sensor in the distributor that could have gone out.


A bad engine ground could cause the symptoms described

Could also be a bad ECU or nuetral safety switch.


With a little more info on the jeep I am sure the jeep gurus can narrow it down for you.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:00 AM   #5
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Manual trans, 177k miles. I did pull the positive battery cable for a few minutes. I also checked the main ground that looks like a ribbon and it links secure. Oh and the 4.0 engine.

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Old 04-21-2013, 09:01 AM   #6
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Double post.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:17 AM   #7
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Take the ground strap and chech for resistance or remove and clean. There is also a ground point on the passenger side of the engine many grounds. Remove all clean thoroughly. That should be the first things to do. Once all are confirmed good then check for spark.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:47 AM   #8
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with the mountain of error codes I'm thinking bad ground as well. By "clean" I think jokerchief means wire brush to a bare metal condition.
I just finished an 88. part of restore was replacing steering column. Installed new column and wouldn't start(no spark) re-installed old column:wouldn't start. Replaced coil and ICM still wouldn't start. Started tracing wiring and 12 hours later found the hidden after-market kill switch under the dash that i had tripped when pulling the original steering column.
Have 7 wranglers either YJ or TJ and most are easy fixes. Just be patient: 9 out of 10 times it's something simple.
Good Luck.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:26 AM   #9
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Ok, I have cleaned the two ground wires I found, disconnected the battery and reconnected to reset the codes. The current codes are 12 33 55. From what I can tell, the 12 is the battery has been disconnected within 50 ignition turns. 33 is for the A/C which I don't have and the 55 is end of test. Any other suggestions?

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Old 04-21-2013, 12:10 PM   #10
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my last YJ had similar symptoms and it ended up being the electronic module inside the distributor.. the one under the rotor button. it took me a few days to diagnose it going through all of the crank/throttle sensors etc.. It looked perfect when I pulled it out but once I replaced it, all was well.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:21 PM   #11
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1) Put the jeep in neutral, set the E-brake, turn the key on and see if you can start it by bridging the two big posts on the solenoid, be sure to use a flat head with a good rubber handle so you don't get a little zap. If it is a safety neutral or ignition this will bypass it.


2) It is possible you got a bad Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKS) from the parts store. Lots of people have had that issue. Try to exchange it or have it tested. Note that my bad CKS (crankshaft sensor) did not throw a code.


3) Oh and try this ... there are many different methods to reset the ECU. All you might have done is clear the memory, but what you need is a factory reset. Try looking up Factory Reboot. By removing the terminals you erase code history, you'll have to use up stored power in ECU. Simply touch the neg/pos wires together after you pull them off the terminals.


Doing that sets the ECU to Factory settings to ensure it recognizes the new CKS. I had to touch the neg and positive battery terminals connectors together to use up the stored memory in the ECU (completely resets to factory), but there are other ways. Either way you want an ECU factory reset.


4) As the individual in the post above stated it could be the CPS camshaft position sensor. You have to remove the dist. to get that out. Try the things I mentioned first, I believe their is a way to test these sensors. If you pull the Dist, make sure you mark it good and take some good pics of which direction the rotor is pointing. Also if you are looking for the part in the local auto part store it is called " Pick-up coil" make sure to use the dash if doing an online search.

Like others have said it is usually an easy fix. You are getting a crash course in jeep know how, it will pay off in the future.
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:30 PM   #12
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I will try these when I get home from work today. Thank you for the assistance.


Jeff
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:54 PM   #13
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I was having the same problem. 15 minutes later, with a new Crank Sensor, an ECU reset, and it started right up for the first time in 2 weeks. I hope this solves this issue for a while. I always do an ECU reset after every sensor change just to make sure it's defaulted to factory spec.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babasnoopy View Post
I was having the same problem. 15 minutes later, with a new Crank Sensor, an ECU reset, and it started right up for the first time in 2 weeks. I hope this solves this issue for a while. I always do an ECU reset after every sensor change just to make sure it's defaulted to factory spec.
So...... Still did it after I stopped at the gym for a little over 90 minutes. I then decided to drive to AutoZone and have them test my battery. Shocker, the battery isn't holding a charge and its been getting progressively worse over the past week or so. New battery, and it started up just like it should. I feel like a bit of an idiot now. Oh well.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babasnoopy View Post

So...... Still did it after I stopped at the gym for a little over 90 minutes. I then decided to drive to AutoZone and have them test my battery. Shocker, the battery isn't holding a charge and its been getting progressively worse over the past week or so. New battery, and it started up just like it should. I feel like a bit of an idiot now. Oh well.
Was the motor cranking over well? Manual or auto?

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Old 04-22-2013, 09:48 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel 442 View Post
1) Put the jeep in neutral, set the E-brake, turn the key on and see if you can start it by bridging the two big posts on the solenoid, be sure to use a flat head with a good rubber handle so you don't get a little zap. If it is a safety neutral or ignition this will bypass it.

2) It is possible you got a bad Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKS) from the parts store. Lots of people have had that issue. Try to exchange it or have it tested. Note that my bad CKS (crankshaft sensor) did not throw a code.

3) Oh and try this ... there are many different methods to reset the ECU. All you might have done is clear the memory, but what you need is a factory reset. Try looking up Factory Reboot. By removing the terminals you erase code history, you'll have to use up stored power in ECU. Simply touch the neg/pos wires together after you pull them off the terminals.

Doing that sets the ECU to Factory settings to ensure it recognizes the new CKS. I had to touch the neg and positive battery terminals connectors together to use up the stored memory in the ECU (completely resets to factory), but there are other ways. Either way you want an ECU factory reset.

4) As the individual in the post above stated it could be the CPS camshaft position sensor. You have to remove the dist. to get that out. Try the things I mentioned first, I believe their is a way to test these sensors. If you pull the Dist, make sure you mark it good and take some good pics of which direction the rotor is pointing. Also if you are looking for the part in the local auto part store it is called " Pick-up coil" make sure to use the dash if doing an online search.

Like others have said it is usually an easy fix. You are getting a crash course in jeep know how, it will pay off in the future.

Ok, I tried bridging the gap on the starter, it cranks but no start. I reset the ECU by touching the positive cable to the negative terminal for 30 seconds per a recommendation I found on the web, still no difference. The battery still feels strong and cranks over easily. I have a couple of other members giving me info, so hopefully we can put our collective heads together and figure this out.

Jeff
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:01 PM   #17
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A little more info. I just had my wife crank over the engine while I held the wire from the coil to the distributor and I have no spark there... Time for mor research.

Jeff
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:18 PM   #18
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Bad coil
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Bad clil
Bad clil?

Never mind, I just caught it before the edit. hahaha. I will try that as my next job tomorrow.

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Old 04-22-2013, 11:20 PM   #20
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I agree could be a bad coil or like I stated you could have picked up a faulty CKS. Good news is you should be close to a solution, just need to eliminate a few more things.

Since resetting try to run the codes again to see if the ECU picked up on something else. It won't cost you nothing.


Thank Baby Jesus it was not in your ignition!
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:21 AM   #21
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I had the same problem my ecu turned out to be bad I basically changed out everything try changing your caps first see if there's any change good luck
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:01 PM   #22
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OK, just got in from work a little bit ago. Two long days in a row. I am planning on getting a voltage meter and testing the battery, coil, etc to see if I can find a bad spot before I invest in a new PCM. Fingers crossed it is an expensive fix.

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Old 04-23-2013, 11:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel 442 View Post
I agree could be a bad coil or like I stated you could have picked up a faulty CKS. Good news is you should be close to a solution, just need to eliminate a few more things.

Since resetting try to run the codes again to see if the ECU picked up on something else. It won't cost you nothing.


Thank Baby Jesus it was not in your ignition!
No new codes, 12 33 55. I am getting ready to run away screaming from this issue. But I gotta get my Jeep running. I love it too much to give up.

Jeff
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:46 AM   #24
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What's 12? 33 is A/C Clutch, who needs A/C when u have a convertible? And 55 is end of codes.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:43 AM   #25
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What's 12? 33 is A/C Clutch, who needs A/C when u have a convertible? And 55 is end of codes.
12 states that the battery has been unholed within 50 ignition cranks.

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Old 04-25-2013, 12:40 AM   #26
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Did you try to get spark out of the coil? I know you said no spark at the plugs. See if you get spark from the coil. If there is no spark at the plugs but spark at the coil you Camshaft Position sensor may be tits up.

If you don't have spark at the coil ... I would double check the Crankshaft Position Sensor. Pull it off and make sure there is not a lot of oil/dirt between the sensor and the bell housing. Also make sure it is plugged in good at the connector. Did you return the one on it and get a new one yet?

Last make sure your engine grounds are good. I had a bad ground and it equal intermittent spark. can't remember if you said you cleaned all the grounds.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:54 PM   #27
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I did try to get spark at the coil, no go. Have not had a chance to get back to the auto parts store due to long work days. The motor grounds have been pulled and cleaned to bare metal. Hope to do some more tonight after work.

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Old 04-25-2013, 01:50 PM   #28
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I'd replace the coil for sure. Remember, it ran before this failure so don't go swapping a bunch of stuff... you'll only create more headache. You've done a great job at narrowing it back to the coil and not having spark there. Replace it... You've done the troubleshooting perfect w/process of elimination.


But your symptoms just scream coil to me... I first though cap and rotor for sure as they wear out and cause that same thing. But, if your not getting spark one step back at the coil then its prob. not the cap and rotor. Only 1 thing failed, the tricky part is finding it.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:48 AM   #29
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It's fixed, it's fixed it's fixed!!!!! Was the coil that went bad. Now I can enjoy me jeep again!!!!

Thank you to everyone that had suggestions for me to eliminate the cause of my issue.

Jeff
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:47 AM   #30
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It's fixed, it's fixed it's fixed!!!!! Was the coil that went bad. Now I can enjoy me jeep again!!!!

Thank you to everyone that had suggestions for me to eliminate the cause of my issue.

Jeff

Awesome!

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