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Old 07-15-2007, 12:11 PM   #1
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4-door JK Rubicon vs. Hummer H2

Hello,

a buddy sold his TJ Rubicon (Fabtech 6" Longarm/35s) for a good price.
It was the Rubicon left beside my small TJ: http://jeep.cfasp.de/upload/510631.jpg

Now he thinks about buying a H2 and installing a 6" Fabtech lift and 38s. I told him that a modified JK 4-door Rubicon like this one from Absoulte Offraoad would be better off the road and on the road: http://www.wranglerforum.com/jk-chat...-37s-9131.html

Am i right?

What would be the advantage/disadvantage of a modified H2 and a modified 4-door JK Rubicon (Both with about 6" lift and 37s-38s tires)?

Thanks for your help.

nicolas-eric

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Old 07-15-2007, 12:39 PM   #2
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a jeep is alot better on both and a fully loaded jk is 33500 new the base h2 no options is like 58000 i think

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Old 07-15-2007, 12:44 PM   #3
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why is a JK better on both? i need some real facts because i don´t want him to buy a "bling-bling" H2.
and it´s not a question of the money, only of the best offroad/onroad capabilities.

he thinks about such a H2:
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:49 PM   #4
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I'm on my phone so I don't have the means of doing a little research but a couple things to look at would be

Power th weight ratio
Insurrence on hummer I think would be a lot more then the new cheaper jeep
Availability of extra parts when you smash stuff up

The list can go on ill write more when I get home from work and have my comp
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:00 PM   #5
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The hummer is IFS and the jeep is a solid axle and will flex more.
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:36 PM   #6
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pls post as much as you can about this topic.
i don´t want my buddy to drive a pimp-mobile. his wife wants a hummer and i want to tell him why that is a very bad idea.
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:51 PM   #7
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I know jeeps dont get the best gas milage, but 8 to 10 mpg. Is reason alone not to buy one.

Heres some cons of the h2. I would post the pros from the pros and cons list but the pros are really not even worth looking at.

Quote:
CONS:

* You can't put the tailgate down to add a tailgate extender (since the spare tire would swing around in traffic), so you are limited to hauling only what fits in the bed and stops at the tailgate.
* Tan (or "wheat") leather seats are standard, regardless of exterior color, with optional black leather
* Highway merging and passing take patience, as it takes some time to get this behemoth up to speed
* Chunky appearance, with a chopped off truck bed
* Negotiating traffic isn't as easy as negotiating obstacles off-road in this vehicle
* Extreme width makes parking and maneuvering in town tricky
* Road noise is a nuisance, especially at speeds over 60mph
* Some dashboard features appear cheap for such a high-priced vehicle
* Must use running boards and hand grips to enter/exit
* Rear visibility is hindered by roof pillars, rear headrests, and spare tire -- all blocking much of the rear window
* Rear seat is too cramped for three adults
* When folded down, the midgate sits several inches above the cargo-bed floor, hindering slide-in loading of long objects
* Tailgate is very heavy (thanks to the attached, swing-out spare tire) and very high off the ground
* Limited pass-through size at the midgate
* Poor fuel economy (though it's to be expected)
What it looks like the two biggest cons is underpowered and poor fuel economy.

Article from JP mag

Quote:
Complaint: It's too big.
Reality: Overall, the JK is just over 5 inches wider than the TJ. That's only 2 1/2 inches (or about the thickness of your hand) on each side. We have yet to see a trail where this increase would stop you. If so, fold in the mirrors and let the flexible flares absorb some trail. If tight trails are in your future, get the two-door. Wanna comfortably bring your friends and family on reasonably difficult trails, get the four-door

Complaint: The plastic bumpers are stupid and weak.
Reality: So are the TJ's. How many TJs are still hitting the trails or even the streets with the factory bumpers? Swap 'em out.

Complaint: The minivan 3.8L V-6 sucks.
Reality: The new V-6 makes its power at a slightly higher rpm than the retired 4.0L inline. Typically, you'll find that you'll drive the new engine about 750 rpm higher than the old one when on the highway. The 4.0L was a great engine, but even it has its downfalls with problems, such as cracked exhaust manifolds and a lean condition at wide-open throttle. The V-6 will still start in low-range First gear and idle up a hill. In our opinion, the 4:1 gearing in the Rubicon transfer case suits the V-6 better than the torquey inline. In the sand and mud, the higher-revving V-6 also seems to have an advantage.

Complaint: The new electric lockers suck.
Reality: The JK axlehousings, shafts, and gears are all stronger than the TJ's. It's true, when disengaged the rear JK Rubicon locker is open whereas the TJ's is a limited slip. But we'll take the strength and durability over the limited slip any day.

Complaint: The plastic front fenders suck.
Reality: When you bang 'em up they will be cheaper to replace than the TJ's painted steel parts. Also, the JK fender is more likely to tear off than to cause collateral damage to the grille, tub, and internal structure like the TJs fenders. Interestingly, the JK is the first Jeep introduced where we were told by the marketing and design team that they took the aftermarket into consideration. To bring the price of the vehicle down, less expensive components were used in nonessential areas that they knew would be upgraded anyway. The bumpers are a perfect example of this. The JK could be a natural for tube fenders anyway.

Complaint: The JK CV driveshafts are garbage.
Reality: With any amount of lift it is likely that the front and rear JK driveshafts will need to be replaced with U-jointed units, even on the Rubicon models. However, all 4x4 JKs will have fixed yokes front and rear. Changing out the driveshafts on the JK will cost about as much as the slip-yoke eliminator kit (not including labor) and a rear CV driveshaft needed to properly lift some TJs.

Complaint: The mid-ship-mounted fuel tank won't allow a long-arm lift kit.
Reality: You won't need an aftermarket long-arm lift kit. The JK comes with up to 32-inch tires from the factory (Sahara and Rubicon models). Fitting 35s should only require 2-3 inches of lift. This will keep the suspension geometry in check without the complexity or expense of a long-arm lift kit.

Complaint: The anti-skid Electronic Stability Program (ESP) will interfere with my driving habits.
Reality: It can be disabled with the push of a button. With the ESP activated the JK will handle light years better than the TJ on snow, ice, and slick road surfaces, even if the TJ in question has the Rubicon's limited-slip rear differential.

Complaint: I'm stupid. My TJ is stillbetter.
Reality: The '07 Wrangler and Wrangler Unlimited feature reduced prices throughout the lineup by an average of $1,200 while adding an average of $1,800 in content when compared to the outgoing '06 models. You get more of a better Jeep for less money. If you prefer the appearance of your '06-and-earlier Wrangler that's one thing, but better a TJ is not.

14 Notes From Behind the Wheel

1. The slightly larger overall size of the two-door was hardly noticeable on the trail.

2. The JKs electronically controlled throttle works perfect without hesitation or scary throttle tip-in launches like in the Hemi Grand.

3. The push-button sway-bar disconnect on the Rubicon model is brilliant. It helps provide more suspension articulation and a smoother ride off-road. Why didn't we get this option sooner?

4. Simple heavy-duty versions of the existing skidplates would be welcomed for rougher wheeling. Aftermarket, get to work!

5. We love the stiffer chassis, and the suspension on the new JK is awesome. Don't ruin it by installing a slap-together lift kit. Aftermarket, get to work!

6. The new Jeep-only (for now) version of the BFG mud terrain on the JK Rubicon grips better than the old BFG muds and better than the Goodyear MT/Rs on the '06-and-earlier Rubicons. We really like these tires and can only hope BFG will offer them in more sizes.

7. There is less gear clash and slop than previous models with 4:1 transfer cases. The JK drivetrain is tighter than the TJ overall.

8. The locker and sway-bar disconnect buttons are somewhat awkwardly placed in the dash. They are a little low and hard to see and reach while maneuvering in the boulder patch. It would be nice if these controls were on the steering wheel.

9. We love the gauge cluster.

10. The transfer case has a real shifter and shifts much more smoothly and easier than previous models.

11. These are the best factory rocker guards Jeep has ever built (Rubicon only). Still wish they had some sort of hoop for even more protection.

12. The three-piece modular hardtop is a way-cool option.

13. The six-speed manual tranny shifter feels a little loose and sloppy. A short-throw shifter might be nice.

14. We'd like to see an aftermarket exhaust (after-cat system) to add some rumble to the 3.8L V-6. It's a little too quiet.
~Lev
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Old 07-15-2007, 04:34 PM   #8
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JMHO the jeep is a better 4WD for the implied purpose. I say implied because the H2 gives the look of being very capable out of the box but its just not. The jeep is the best out of the box 4WD that this country offers.

I think the JK is going to replace the H2 as the new "Bling-Bling/Soccer Mom" vehicle. But thats OK because it IS a more useful 4WD hands down. It also means that there are going to be a lot of "Lease Returns" and high turnover on purchases because that type of individual just doesn't own their vehicles very long, 2-4 years is a long time for many people.
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Old 07-16-2007, 01:35 AM   #9
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H2s are very capapble out of the box. ive seen them run some hard trails stock.

cons: they are just gas guzzlers, reallly heavy, wide, IFS, weak front steering, expensive as hell

pros: 4 to 1 tcase, stock on 35s, heavy duty skids, rear locker i think.

everyone else mention the good stuff about a JK already.
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawkon View Post
H2s are very capapble out of the box. ive seen them run some hard trails stock.

cons: they are just gas guzzlers, reallly heavy, wide, IFS, weak front steering, expensive as hell

pros: 4 to 1 tcase, stock on 35s, heavy duty skids, rear locker i think.

everyone else mention the good stuff about a JK already.
Yes but the JK rubicon also comes with 4:1, Lockers front and rear on dana 44s, and automatic swaybar disconnects.
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:23 PM   #11
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I've been on the trail with H2s. The group was always being held up because the H2s were too big to easily get around trees, tight curves, etc.

TJs, YJs, KJs - no problem. JK Unlimited wouldn't have a problem either.
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:34 PM   #12
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if your buddy has to have a $$$ 4x4 at least get one that's bad ass.. like this G-wagon. The h2 is considered here in the states as mall 4x4, something to take the kids to the movies in and tow your trail rig.

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Old 07-16-2007, 09:46 PM   #13
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Ooohh now I do like the G-wagon...
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:03 PM   #14
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he already has a G.




now he wants an US 4wheeler again after he sold his tj rubicon.
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:08 PM   #15
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As stated:

Cons:

WEAK font steering, Too big, WAY too heavy.. Heavy enough to get you into a lot of trouble offroad without realizing it, EATS gas for breakfast. About half the gas mileage as a Wrangler, with only about 300/350 hp/tq. IFS. Theres nothing wrong with IFS when its setup right, under the right conditions, especially stock, but a 6 inch lift and that large of tires, is pushing the limit on driveline angles with half shafts. Atleast Jeep still has a solid front, so the axles have a better chance of staying intact on rough terrain and high power.

A JK rubicon has many of the things an H2 does, and not too many of its weaknesses. From what I have seen, its size, motor(you have diesel there so it doesnt matter), plastic bumpers and flares (Getting replaced anyway, doesnt matter) and 6 speed transmission, are the only flaws. The 6 speed is an amazing transmission, as far as ratios go, offroad, but DC has been having lots of problems with it in the TJs (I know from personal experience). Im not sure if its the same 6 speed from the TJs, but I would assume it is. Youd have to check on that. If its not, then good, no issues, but if it is the same one, its a Con for the JK. It wont break on the trail, but if will break on the street, and have some clutch/throw out bearing issues, and synchro issues. That is, unless they worked out the bugs in it for the JKs.
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:51 PM   #16
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawkon View Post
pros: 4 to 1 tcase, stock on 35s, heavy duty skids, rear locker i think.

H2 Does not have a 4:1 T-case, I am pretty sure that they are on 37" BFG All-Terrains, and the rear Electric locker is Problematic, to say the least. Ok, So that leaves Skid plates. Not baggin on you Rawkon, just the H2..

Joe


UPDATE: Found these specs verifying this post.


)

Overview
Model: HUMMER H2
Body style / driveline: 4-door hard-top, 4-wheel drive
EPA vehicle class: full-size sport utility
Manufacturing location: Mishawaka, Indiana
Key competitors: Range Rover, Lexus LX 470, Lincoln Navigator

Engine
Type: Vortec 6000 6.0L V-8
Displacement (cu in / cc): 364 / 5967
Bore & stroke (in / mm): 4 x 3.62 / 101.6 x 92
Block material: cast iron
Cylinder head material: cast aluminum
Valvetrain: overhead valve
Compression ratio: 9.4:1
Horsepower (hp / kw @ rpm): 316 / 237 @ 5200
Torque (lb-ft / Nm @ rpm): 360 / 488 @ 4000

Transmission
Type: Hydra-Matic 4L65-E, 4-speed electronically controlled automatic
Gear ratios (:1):
First:
3.06
Second:
1.63
Third:
1.00
Fourth:
0.70
Reverse:
2.29
Final drive (axle) ratio: 4.10
Stall ratio: 1.90
Low range lock gear reduction: 2.64
Crawl ratio: 33:1

Chassis/Suspension
Front: independent with torsion bars; 46-mm monotube gas shocks; 36-mm front stabilizer bar
Rear: 5-link variable-rate coil spring; optional self-leveling air spring (w/ RPO ZM6); 46-mm monotube gas shocks, 30-mm stabilizer bar (coil) or 32-mm (air)
Traction control: brake-controlled, single-wheel control capability with rear axle locking differential
Steering type: variable ratio, integral power; recirculating ball type
Steering ratio: variable 15/13:1
Steering wheel turns,
lock-to-lock: 3
Turning diameter,
curb-to-curb (ft / m): 43.5 / 13.5

Brakes
Type: 4-wheel disc, 4-wheel/4-channel ABS, dual piston calipers with Dynamic Rear Proportioning
Rotor diameter x thickness
(in / mm): front: 12.79 x 1.5 / 325 x 38
rear: 13 x 1.14 / 330 x 29

Wheels/Tires
Wheel size and type: 17-inch cast aluminum
Tires: LT315/70R17 all-terrain

Dimensions
Exterior
Wheelbase (in): 122.7
Overall length (in): 203.6
Overall width (in): excluding mirrors: 81.2
Overall height (in): without roof racks: 79.2
with roof racks: 81.7
Track (in): front: 69.4
rear: 69.4
Minimum ground clearance (in): 10 (coil); 10.5 (air)
Curb weight (lb): 6400
Standard GVWR (lb): 8600

Interior
Seating capacity
(front / rear): 2 / 3 / 1 (opt)
Head room (in): front: 40.5
2nd row: 39.7
3rd row: 38.8
Leg room (in): front: 41.3
2nd row: 38.6
3rd row: 27.3
Shoulder room (in): front: 66.4
2nd row: 66.3
3rd row: 41.4
Hip room (in): front: 62.9
2nd row: 62
3rd row: 30.3

Capacities
Cargo volume (cu ft ): 40 - 86.6
Trailer towing maximum
(lb):
7000
Fuel tank (gal): 32
Engine oil (qt): 6.0
Cooling system (qt): 16.8

Vehicle Performance Data
Cruising range (miles / km at an average of 30-40 mph (48-64 km/h) over a hard surface and rolling terrain):
310 / 499
Grade capability: 60%
Side slope capability: 40%
Approach angle: 40.8° (coil) - 42.8° (air)
Departure angle: 39.6° (coil) - 38.1° (air) (40° with ERH)
Ramp brake-over angle: 25.8° (coil) - 27.5° (air)
Axle differential to ground
(in / mm): 9.9 / 251.5




PRICING

BASE: $53,280.00
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
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he already has a G.




now he wants an US 4wheeler again after he sold his tj rubicon.

Ausgezeichnet! Das gefaellt mir.

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Old 07-17-2007, 12:01 AM   #19
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:58 AM   #20
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Did you just sneeze?
If you think it looks bad, you should try saying it.

It's German for: "Excellent! I like it."
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Old 07-19-2007, 06:53 PM   #21
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ooh i know the h3 has a 4:1 i thought the big brother did too. or am i wrong and the h3 doesnt have the 4:1 either?? and for sure there not on 37s there 35s
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:15 PM   #22
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He does know that an H2 is nothing more than a tahoe with a different body and price right?
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:23 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrubicon2004 View Post
He does know that an H2 is nothing more than a tahoe with a different body and price right?
is that true?
engine, drivetrain, axles ... are the same in a H2 and a tahoe?
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:53 PM   #24
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Engine is from a 3/4 ton chevy pick up, the Tahoe Denali, Caddillac Escalade etc. Basically its the 6.0, its a gas HOG and produces low HP for a chevy small block...

the rest is a Tahoe, yes.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:22 PM   #25
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look at the sheet up there what does the hummer compete with?

Range Rover, Lexus LX 470, Lincoln Navigator

do any of those look as off road worthy as a jeep? so then why would a H2 if those are its competitiors:chair:
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:27 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCS05Rubi View Post
Engine is from a 3/4 ton chevy pick up, the Tahoe Denali, Caddillac Escalade etc. Basically its the 6.0, its a gas HOG and produces low HP for a chevy small block...

the rest is a Tahoe, yes.
My 1/2ton has the 6.0. It is factory rated at 340hp and gets 18mpg on the hwy. How is that bad? I know this because I actually own one. I would take this truck over ANY other 1/2ton available on the market.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:33 PM   #27
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just the weight&size difference alone would make me pick the jk
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Old 07-20-2007, 06:42 AM   #28
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My 1/2ton has the 6.0. It is factory rated at 340hp and gets 18mpg on the hwy. How is that bad? I know this because I actually own one. I would take this truck over ANY other 1/2ton available on the market.
What do you have, a 1/2 SS or a 1/2 HD? Only the HD gets a 6.0 as far as I know, the other 1/2 tons get a 5.3. A buddy of mine has a reg cab, long bed, work truck 2wd 6 cyl and only gets 18..

I also had a 6.0 and got 7mpg out of it. My boss has a Denali and gets 12mpg out of the 6.0 in his Denali.

We arent talking about a 2,000 lb pickup with a 6.0, were talking about a 30,000 lb H2 here.. He is NOT going to see any better than 12, period. Id be suprised if he even saw double digits.


Edit: BTW, my 6.0 was also "Rated" at 340. Sorry slick, but id be very surprised if it even put down 280 hp and 320 ftlb torque. The newer 6.0s have a crap load of Torque management built into the computer, designed to save the driveline components from its "power." You give it gas, it cuts timing. I was seeing timing retard 28 and higher during WOT. Not once did my 03 come anywhere close to 340 hp... I think you might have the 1/2 ton "SS" which is built for playing in the street more than anything else. My buddy had a 3/4 ton ext cab short bed. Put intake/exhaust and a programmer on it, and was pushing 350 hp 410 ft lbs of torque. I dont think he had 340/360 stock
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Old 07-20-2007, 08:21 AM   #29
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