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Old 08-23-2013, 06:36 PM   #1
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Unhappy 2013 jks sound?

Hey im pretty new to the jeep thing and im new to the whole audio system upgrade thing too....

So i need some help! I would like to keep my head unit or because of my connectivity package but the stock sound sucks! So im thinking about upgrading everything after the head unit.
Since i dont understand anything of all the brands and whats good about them i need some help there. What do i need, for a 2013 2 door sport? How am i getting all that in there? I really do think i am able of installing it...

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Old 08-23-2013, 08:02 PM   #2
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Sure you are. If you can operate a screwdriver, a pair of pliers and a sharp knife, and if you have a bit of logic and patience, you can install it yourself.

You will need:

- Amp, four channel if you're just going to run replacement speakers or five channel if you're also going to add a sub.

- Line output converter(s) to turn the HU speaker level outputs into pre-outs, unless your amp has speaker level inputs

- 6.5" coaxial speakers for the soundbar

- 6.5" component speakers for the dash (you could go coaxial here as well, but you shouldn't)

- Subwoofer and enclosure, if you're adding one (you should)

- Amp wiring kit

- Speaker wire, crimp connectors, zip ties, basic tools

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Old 08-23-2013, 08:29 PM   #3
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Thank you so much for taking the time!

I'm pretty good with that stuff, i thought there is maybe something way harder that i didn't thought would be part of it.

How am i rewiring the the speakers?

Yes, I would want a sub but how am i bringing a cable all the way to the back?



Would you have a brand that does good stuff for a reasonable price?
(i don't care about brands)
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:36 PM   #4
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Ouh and what am i doing with the little spekers in the dash?
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:54 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by dominik View Post
Thank you so much for taking the time!

I'm pretty good with that stuff, i thought there is maybe something way harder that i didn't thought would be part of it.

How am i rewiring the the speakers?
You don't have to rewire them, you can re-use the factory wiring - at least to an extent. What additional wiring you have to do will depend on where you install the amp.

Quote:
Yes, I would want a sub but how am i bringing a cable all the way to the back?
By hauling up the trim that runs along the door sills and adding it to the wiring that already runs through there.

Quote:
Would you have a brand that does good stuff for a reasonable price?
(i don't care about brands)
Depends what you call a reasonable price. What's your budget for doing this? We went through this the other day for someone else on here and reckoned that $450-500 was probably about the minimum you could get away with short of using really crappy kit, which kind of defeats the point.

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Ouh and what am i doing with the little spekers in the dash?
The little speakers in the dash are tweeters, they give you the really high frequencies. In my previous post I recommended component speakers for the dash and coaxials for the soundbar. Coaxial means that they are a mid range woofer with a tweeter stuck in the middle; components are basically kits that come with a mid-range woofer, a separate tweeter, and a little box called a crossover that takes the full spectrum signal from the amp and splits it, sending the high frequencies to the tweeter and the rest to the woofer. So in answer to your question, if you buy components for the dash as I recommend then you'll be replacing them. It's very easy to do.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:01 PM   #6
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That all sounds not too hard....

To the budget i dont want to spend more than i have to but i guess i'll pay as much as i have to.

What do you think how much would i need to spend on a good set up?
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:10 PM   #7
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Have a read of this thread from the other day.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/nee...em-263963.html

Once you've done that, go and do a bit of research. Go to Best Buy with one of your favourite CDs and spend some time in their car audio section, listen to how your music sounds with different speakers and amps. Do you want to listen to lots of bass heavy dubstep, or are Stravinsky's violin concertos your thing? Understanding your listening habits will help you to determine where you need to focus your expenditure.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:16 PM   #8
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Yes i'll read that.

My musik would be in the Hip hop direction but also Jack johnson kinda stuff....

Thanks for helping!
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:31 PM   #9
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I think i want a lot of bass but also a really clear sound.
It should be Powerfull and loud but good.
But that probably what everybody wants...
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:55 PM   #10
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Ususally people go with a 10" sub is that just to keep the costs down?
What if i would go with a 15"? for example a polk one?
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:30 PM   #11
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15" is big. Really big. More importantly, the box for a 15" is really big; unless you don't need storage space in your Jeep, you're probably best to steer clear of a 15".

A good 10" sub will give you a lot of kick. If you want to really give your bass some heavy power you could consider a pair of 8" subs, but that would require you to install two amps - a four channel for the speakers and a two channel for the subs. I'd suggest you start with a single sub and then decide if you need more.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:37 PM   #12
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Ok thanks i'll google all that in the next few day and than probably ask again more questons....

Thanks for all the advice!
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Old 08-24-2013, 10:44 AM   #13
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Is there a way to get more bass without a second amp?

Is there an amp i should look at or just any 5 channel?

Do you have an good idea for an amp? Where is the easiest place to put an amp?

Under the seats? Or how hard is it to get it behind the dash?
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Old 08-24-2013, 04:25 PM   #14
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More bass is provided by either a more powerful sub, or a greater number of subs. You can buy a very cheap, very powerful sub, but it won't produce clean, hard bass - it will just make a louder noise. How much bass do you need? Go and listen to a 200W RMS sub at full chat in a store, then come back and tell me if you need more.

Amp decision will be driven by how much you're prepared to spend, how much power you want, and where you want to install it. It's possible to put amps in the dash but it limits your choice fairly significantly due to the form factor. Under the seat is my preference, but that's not ideal if you're a serious off roader driving through swamps and fording rivers. Don't worry about the amp until you've figured out how loud you want your speakers to be, once you've decided on your speakers you can look at the amps capable of driving them effectively.
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Old 08-24-2013, 04:59 PM   #15
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I think i like the polks, the db 6501 and the db651 i dont need it to look all stock...

The question is what i need i figured out the the db651 are 60 watts so right now i was looking for a 5 channel amp with 4 x 50 watts at 4 ohm. Im fine with putting it under the seat.

I wont go offroading maybe a few dirt roads, but that will be it. (its my dailey driver...)

I'll just see what kind of amp i'll get and than add the sub, because i think they all will at least power a 10" or?

Thank you again for taking the time.
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Old 08-24-2013, 10:25 PM   #16
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Double check the impedance when shopping for an amp... Make sure the RMS of the speaker is close to the same RMS of the amp and at the same impedance.. For example if you have 60 watt 2 ohm speakers, you'd want an amp that will have close to 60 watts RMS at 2 ohm..
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:05 PM   #17
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How will that work?

The 6501 are 100 watt and the 651 are 60 watt both 4 ohm, am I wrong?
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:59 PM   #18
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Then whatever amp you get needs to be 100 x 4 @ 4ohm (plus whatever for your sub if you get a 5 channel). This way the two channels you have running the components can have the gain set for ~100 watts and the two channels running the coaxials can be set for ~60 watts. You can use a less powerful amp, as long as you have the gain set correctly so you don't clip the signal you'll be fine. But for optimal performance, you want to match the RMS..
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:31 AM   #19
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Hey everybody!

What do you guys think about the db 6501 + db 651 (not as an s version) + db 1240 dvc (sub) + Polk Audio PA D5000.5 (amp)?

The am has an output of 70 watt at 4 ohm but the db 651 have only 60 would that work out? I didnt thought it did but i googled and googled and found a few persons that did that.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:02 PM   #20
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All these audio threads and I never see anybody touch on the subject of sound staging. A correct sound stage would have the sound seem as it is coming from right in front of the HU. If I was to try and improve the JKU sound, I would concentrate on the front speakers and just leave the "sound bar" speakers un amped for back fill. The space for the front speakers needs to be sealed and dynomatted, with a good set of 6.5 component speakers added such as focal, MB Quart, etc. powered with a good clean 2 channel amp. It's important to use heavy gauge wiring for the amp and speakers. The factory wiring is useless and must be upgraded. A good single 10" sub in the back is all that is needed with a mono block amp matching the RMS power rating. Just make sure all the RCA cables and power leads are run on opposite sides of the cabin.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:02 PM   #21
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Hey everybody!

What do you guys think about the db 6501 + db 651 (not as an s version) + db 1240 dvc (sub) + Polk Audio PA D5000.5 (amp)?

The am has an output of 70 watt at 4 ohm but the db 651 have only 60 would that work out? I didnt thought it did but i googled and googled and found a few persons that did that.
There's nothing wrong with the amp overpowering the speakers, it just means that at full chat the amp will be capable of overdriving the cones and causing damage. Tune it properly and it won't be an issue.

I haven't used the Polk amp or heard their subs, so I don't know what they'll sound like. For some reason you've specced a DVC sub, so you'll have to wire the sub channels in series which will run it at a 2 ohm load; I'm presuming there's no reason why the amp can't handle a 2 ohm load on one channel and 4 ohms on the other 4, but I'm not sure. Personally I'd look for an SVC sub.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:13 PM   #22
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All these audio threads and I never see anybody touch on the subject of sound staging. A correct sound stage would have the sound seem as it is coming from right in front of the HU. If I was to try and improve the JKU sound, I would concentrate on the front speakers and just leave the "sound bar" speakers un amped for back fill. The space for the front speakers needs to be sealed and dynomatted, with a good set of 6.5 component speakers added such as focal, MB Quart, etc. powered with a good clean 2 channel amp. It's important to use heavy gauge wiring for the amp and speakers. The factory wiring is useless and must be upgraded. A good single 10" sub in the back is all that is needed with a mono block amp matching the RMS power rating. Just make sure all the RCA cables and power leads are run on opposite sides of the cabin.
The balance to provide effective staging is why your amplifier has little dials marked "gain". You don't just install an amp and then turn everything to 11, you need to tune it as well.

Most of the rest of your post is recommended in most of the longer threads about upgrading audio systems. Dynamat, polyfill and enclosure sealing have all been discussed at huge length. Every thread discussing amp installation recommends separate cable runs for power and sound.

It isn't important to use heavy gauge wiring for the vast majority of installs. You seem to miss the point of why most people upgrade the audio in their Jeep - it's because with the roof down, it needs to be louder and clearer than the stock system allows. That's about it. The miniscule benefit to be gained from expensive cable in the vast majority of installs discussed on here is for many people not worth it. I've re-wired my entire Jeep with 14 gauge wire, and you know what difference it made? Nine tenths of bugger all. It's a car audio system. Anyone who tells you they can tell the difference between 18 gauge stock wiring and 14 gauge Monster at 70mph with the roof off is lying.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:16 PM   #23
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Would the db 1212 be better? I like that one more because it already comes with a box
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:29 PM   #24
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It's SVC but it's 2 ohm, so the same point stands. I'm sure it will work because I can't see why you would have an issue with different impedance loads on different channels, but I can't guarantee it.

Why are you wedded to a single manufacturer for all components?
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:41 PM   #25
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It doesn't need to be all polk it just gave me somehow a better feeling, I assumed that they probably would work great together.

Do you have a 5 channel amp and sub you could recommend?
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:51 PM   #26
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My point is that it seems most of the posts from members asking about upgrades seem to be stuck on which speakers are the best. But somebody that doesn't know any better would go and shell out way too much money for speakers with the expectations of much better sound, and still have a wall of horrible noise coming from the sound bar above their head completely defeating the purpose of the "audio upgrade"
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:52 PM   #27
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It doesn't need to be all polk it just gave me somehow a better feeling, I assumed that they probably would work great together.

Do you have a 5 channel amp and sub you could recommend?
At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, go and listen to some. Seriously. What I like in a speaker and what I think sounds good may be very different to what you like. Take a CD to Best Buy and try a few out - that's why they have those sounding rooms. Then, when you've found a set up you like, price it on Amazon and give Best Buy the chance to match it.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:59 PM   #28
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My point is that it seems most of the posts from members asking about upgrades seem to be stuck on which speakers are the best. But somebody that doesn't know any better would go and shell out way too much money for speakers with the expectations of much better sound, and still have a wall of horrible noise coming from the sound bar above their head completely defeating the purpose of the "audio upgrade"
That's a fair enough point, although tuning your amp will resolve a lot of that. Still, sound staging - as with everything else in ICE - depends to a large extent on what you're listening to. Good staging's essential for opera, but largely irrelevant for listening to, say, dub. The higher the frequency, the more directional the sound.

Most recommendations on the typical "my stock audio sucks, what should I replace it with?" threads tend towards the right imbalance of power with a bias towards the front; the shape of the speaker enclosures naturally dictates that anyway. (Actually, a lot of "recommendations" on these threads tend to be "here's the list of what I installed and it's amazing and it's the best thing you can do" rather than actually asking what the OP wants to achieve, but that's my personal bugbear!) With the right tuning of amp and HU, reasonable staging is easy to achieve with pretty much any mix of components.
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:27 PM   #29
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Thank you guys for the help!

I'll go and listen to all that in person!
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:46 PM   #30
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I agree that staging is really important - only to those who deem it important..

I only have amped front components in kickpanel enclosures - I did this to attempt to achieve the best imaging and staging and for me, it worked. All of my music sounds like it's coming straight from the hood of the Jeep through my windshield..

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