2014 JKUR Speaker/Amp Upgrade - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > General Jeep Discussions > Communications and Electronics

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 01-22-2014, 04:14 PM   #1
Jeeper
 
jon snow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 156
2014 JKUR Speaker/Amp Upgrade

Done alot of Forum reading on the subject, and looking for some advice on the following planned upgrade to the existing 430N Alpine system:

Replacing front dash and soundbar speakers with Polk Audio db651s (6.5") speakers, and adding an Alpine MRV-F300 4 channel amp.

1. Assume I need to keep the factory amp to power the factory subwoofer, correct? Any problems/pitfalls with that?
2. Plan to use existing dash tweeters as well, or do they need to be replaced also?
3. Hopefully no big problems with this upgrade, as the parts are in the mail. I've done speaker and HU replacements before on other vehicles, but never added an amp to a setup like this.

Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

__________________
2014 JKUR Copperhead Pearl
"Rocky Mountain High.......in Colorado "
jon snow is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-22-2014, 09:48 PM   #2
Jeeper
 
ChasUGC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,505
Images: 2
I think they're waiting for me to comment so they can shoot me down.
I think I'm starting to develop a complex here. Yipes.

To tell you the truth though, on another topic, I sure hope they don't legalize marijuana in California. It would be like letting the horse loose off the wagon. It is wild enough here. Imagine if the hippy sit-in's were legal in California. Instead of going to the bar for happy hour, some people might spend the entire night legally smoking marijuana at a Hooka Bar. Somebody throws in some laced stuff...no happy ending. lol.

But, to tell you the truth I can't wait to go on vacation in Colorado now!!!

ChasUGC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 07:41 AM   #3
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 175
How do you plan to hook the amp to the hu?

I would recommend that you use components(db6501) in the dash. That will replace the stock tweeters and sound better then running coax.

Also you will be under powering the speakers with that amp so make sure you don't go over 3/4 volume on the hu and don't crank the gain on the amp. Or you risk blowing the speakers. Remember. Not enough power is more dangerous then too much set correctly.
Kingcat is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-23-2014, 10:24 PM   #4
Jeeper
 
ChasUGC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,505
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingcat View Post
How do you plan to hook the amp to the hu?

I would recommend that you use components(db6501) in the dash. That will replace the stock tweeters and sound better then running coax.
There are a some good points in this statement. I agree with this part, and I'll just expand on the statement.

If your front speakers have the mid-range and the tweeters in different locations,then it is true that you want to use component speakers(db6501) and not coaxial speakers(db651).

How you plan to connect the amp is also important. If your HU has RCA outputs, then you would just connect the speakers to the amp, and the amp to the HU. But, I don't think this is the case because most JKU's seem to be using a line converter such as the LCi6.

Such as this thread. I've seen more detailed writeups with pictures, but this one should give you an idea.
I want to add an amp and sub to my 2014 wrangler rubicon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingcat View Post
Also you will be under powering the speakers with that amp so make sure you don't go over 3/4 volume on the hu and don't crank the gain on the amp. Or you risk blowing the speakers. Remember. Not enough power is more dangerous then too much set correctly.
I don't completely agree with this statement. The amp the OP mentioned is fine for both the db6501 and db6521. The amp is 50watts RMS, and the db521 is 60watts RMS, and the db6501 is 100watts RMS. This is fine.

It is true that you never want to set the gains on the amp too high, because this could blow out speakers. But, as long as you stay within the RMS value of the amp, and listen for distortion when setting the gain on the amp, you shouldn't blow out your speakers.
If you don't know how to properly tune the amp, then I suggest that you take it to a professional to tune it.

But, the volume on the HU does not have anything to do with underpowering the speakers, causing them to blow out. This is something that you really need to understand. Most HU's have 1%THD or less, within the RMS value. This will not cause speakers to blow out. You can't blow out speakers with 14watts @1%THD or less.

The amp will never go above 50watts RMS, and it has a THD of 1% or less. You can't blow out the speakers, if you stay within the RMS value on the HU. What does cause the speakers to blow out, is going above the RMS value on the HU, such as using the internal amp, which is switched on with the loudness button. Volume, within the RMS value of the HU, will not cause the speakers to blow out.

The main idea is too not use the internal amp on the HU. A lot of people like to use the loudness button, which turns on the internal amp, because it adds fidelity, such as increased bass and better audio expansion. But, this is the wrong way to add fidelity. The proper way is to use an external EQ, which has a low THD. Using an internal EQ is fine too, as long as it doesn't incorporate the internal amp.

The proper way to set the gains on the amp is with the EQ flat.

Still, any EQ adds gain to the chosen frequency. When you add so much gain, that it distorts, you risk blowing your speakers. Most people don't do this normally, because it sounds horrible.

Again, it is most important to properly set the gains on the amp. The HU, will add distortion, especially near its max RMS value of 1% THD, which can be magnified by the amp. Therefore you would crank up the volume on the HU, and adjust your amp gain properly to reduce any distortion. The gain on the amp, is what controls the distortion being sent to the speakers, and not the HU.

A good point was made because most people set the gains on the amp at 3/4 the max volume on the HU.

If you do like to go above 3/4 the max volume on the HU, then I would listen for distortion and reduce your amp gains if you hear distortion.

Remember: It is distortion that blows speakers, not volume, if the amp is properly chosen for the speakers, which it is in this case.
ChasUGC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-24-2014, 06:23 AM   #5
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasUGC View Post


I don't completely agree with this statement. The amp the OP mentioned is fine for both the db6501 and db6521. The amp is 50watts RMS, and the db521 is 60watts RMS, and the db6501 is 100watts RMS. This is fine.

It is true that you never want to set the gains on the amp too high, because this could blow out speakers. But, as long as you stay within the RMS value of the amp, and listen for distortion when setting the gain on the amp, you shouldn't blow out your speakers.
If you don't know how to properly tune the amp, then I suggest that you take it to a professional to tune it.

But, the volume on the HU does not have anything to do with underpowering the speakers, causing them to blow out. This is something that you really need to understand. Most HU's have 1%THD or less, within the RMS value. This will not cause speakers to blow out. You can't blow out speakers with 14watts @1%THD or less.

The amp will never go above 50watts RMS, and it has a THD of 1% or less. You can't blow out the speakers, if you stay within the RMS value on the HU. What does cause the speakers to blow out, is going above the RMS value on the HU, such as using the internal amp, which is switched on with the loudness button. Volume, within the RMS value of the HU, will not cause the speakers to blow out.

The main idea is too not use the internal amp on the HU. A lot of people like to use the loudness button, which turns on the internal amp, because it adds fidelity, such as increased bass and better audio expansion. But, this is the wrong way to add fidelity. The proper way is to use an external EQ, which has a low THD. Using an internal EQ is fine too, as long as it doesn't incorporate the internal amp.

The proper way to set the gains on the amp is with the EQ flat.

Still, any EQ adds gain to the chosen frequency. When you add so much gain, that it distorts, you risk blowing your speakers. Most people don't do this normally, because it sounds horrible.

Again, it is most important to properly set the gains on the amp. The HU, will add distortion, especially near its max RMS value of 1% THD, which can be magnified by the amp. Therefore you would crank up the volume on the HU, and adjust your amp gain properly to reduce any distortion. The gain on the amp, is what controls the distortion being sent to the speakers, and not the HU.

A good point was made because most people set the gains on the amp at 3/4 the max volume on the HU.

If you do like to go above 3/4 the max volume on the HU, then I would listen for distortion and reduce your amp gains if you hear distortion.

Remember: It is distortion that blows speakers, not volume, if the amp is properly chosen for the speakers, which it is in this case.
No mentioned db521. We were discussing db651s and db6501 both iirc are 100w RMS +.so a 50w RMS are not enough.

You do not set gains by ear. You set them with a dmm but you don't know how so you think it is wrong.
Kingcat is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-24-2014, 02:45 PM   #6
Jeeper
 
jon snow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 156
Already bought the speakers, and would prefer not to return them. Since they include built in tweeters, can I just disconnect the stock component tweeters?

Thanks to both of you for the info.
__________________
2014 JKUR Copperhead Pearl
"Rocky Mountain High.......in Colorado "
jon snow is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-25-2014, 03:57 PM   #7
Jeeper
 
ChasUGC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,505
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon snow View Post
Already bought the speakers, and would prefer not to return them. Since they include built in tweeters, can I just disconnect the stock component tweeters?

Thanks to both of you for the info.
Yes. You're going to be replacing the speakers anyway.
ChasUGC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-25-2014, 04:23 PM   #8
Jeeper
 
ChasUGC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,505
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingcat View Post
No mentioned db521. We were discussing db651s and db6501 both iirc are 100w RMS +.so a 50w RMS are not enough.

You do not set gains by ear. You set them with a dmm but you don't know how so you think it is wrong.
Polk Audio db651


Highlights:

  • 6-1/2" 2-way car speakers (pair)
  • supplied adapter rings allow for fit into 6-3/4" locations
  • Dynamic Balance polymer/mica composite woofer with butyl rubber surround
  • 3/4" pivoting liquid-cooled silk/polymer composite dome tweeter
  • Neodymium tweeter magnet
  • Kapton voice coil
  • built-in 2-way crossover network
  • ABS wheel-design grilles
  • stainless steel mounting hardware
  • power range: 6-60 watts RMS (180 watts peak power)
Polk Audio db651 6-1/2" 2-way car speakers — for 6-1/2" and 6-3/4" openings at Crutchfield.com

I think you can see that you are wrong about the RMS value.

Now, you are able to read my mind, and know what I think? I think you really need to chill out.

Nor, can you say what is enough. 50watts is enough, if this is what the person wants in his Jeep. He could use 200watt speakers, if he wanted to, without consequence.

The important thing is to choose the speakers according to the amp, and to make sure that you are providing clean wattage to your speakers. You wouldn't choose 50watt speakers for a 100watt amp. But, 60watt speakers for a 50watt amp is perfect. The OP has left himself a little headroom. The latter was also successfully accomplished by the OP with the use of an external amp.
ChasUGC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 01-25-2014, 04:46 PM   #9
Jeeper
 
ChasUGC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,505
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon snow View Post
Already bought the speakers, and would prefer not to return them. Since they include built in tweeters, can I just disconnect the stock component tweeters?

Thanks to both of you for the info.
But, I wouldn't do it myself. Are you sure that you won't have that nagging feeling that you didn't treat your baby right? And, with a brand new Jeep?

I wouldn't leave an empty hole like that. Do you feel that half smile?
I would go for the complete smile.

I would just return them and wait. No sense in rushing it and not doing it right. There is a guy selling the db6501 on ebay brand new and only twenty dollars more than Crutchfield's db651 price.

But, its your Jeep, your choice.
ChasUGC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2014, 01:08 PM   #10
Jeeper
 
jon snow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasUGC View Post
But, I wouldn't do it myself. Are you sure that you won't have that nagging feeling that you didn't treat your baby right? And, with a brand new Jeep?

I wouldn't leave an empty hole like that. Do you feel that half smile?
I would go for the complete smile.

I would just return them and wait. No sense in rushing it and not doing it right. There is a guy selling the db6501 on ebay brand new and only twenty dollars more than Crutchfield's db651 price.

But, its your Jeep, your choice.
Chas,

Made some progress on this project (the easy parts - soundbar speakers replaced and amp mounted on a bracket under the passenger seat). Now for the hard part (for me), the wiring. One big question I have is this: is there a trick to connecting the front and rear speakers to the new amp while utilizing the stock amp to power the stock subwoofer? Any insight would be very helpful before I start making connections. I'd like to do this right the first time if possible .
__________________
2014 JKUR Copperhead Pearl
"Rocky Mountain High.......in Colorado "
jon snow is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2014, 05:54 PM   #11
Jeeper
 
ChasUGC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,505
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon snow View Post
Chas,

Made some progress on this project (the easy parts - soundbar speakers replaced and amp mounted on a bracket under the passenger seat). Now for the hard part (for me), the wiring. One big question I have is this: is there a trick to connecting the front and rear speakers to the new amp while utilizing the stock amp to power the stock subwoofer? Any insight would be very helpful before I start making connections. I'd like to do this right the first time if possible .
There are many threads on installing an amp in a 2014 JKU using the stock amp. There are also write ups that I've seen here at Wrangler Forum. One such thread is below. The insight here says that you need a LC6i or a LC8i, to maintain the capability of the stock HU, fader capability, and stock amp.

I want to add an amp and sub to my 2014 wrangler rubicon

But, it doesn't seem that you really know what you need to do the job right. I don't think you have knowledge in how to tear apart a new 2014 JKU Wrangler. I would in the very least go to a professional installer, and tell them what you want to do, and ask them what you need. Then, ask them what they would charge you. $100-$120 dollars is not that much considering that you spent $20,000 to $40,000 on your new wrangler. Do you really want to risk messing up your brand new $40,000 dollar Wrangler just to save one hundred bucks?

I also had installed HU's and speakers, and stuff, in my other vehicles. But, these new vehicles have grown in complexity, and electronics.

It is also important to tune the amp properly.

This is why I took mine to a professional installer. Then, I learned how to tear it apart myself, after seeing how they did it, and asking them questions.

I learned what they did that I didn't like, and afterwards I customized their base installation for my higher expectations.

Once I saw how they wired it, I re-wired everything, knowing where all the wiring was suppose to connect. I did this for many reasons. But, the base system was properly connected, and I learned a lot about my Wrangler's audio system, how to tear apart my Wrangler, and the higher expectations that I desired from my Wrangler Audio System.
ChasUGC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-19-2014, 12:12 PM   #12
Jeeper
 
jon snow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasUGC View Post
I would in the very least go to a professional installer, and tell them what you want to do, and ask them what you need.
Agreed. Going to see an installer this Saturday about having all the amp wiring done. Just too complicated. Definitely plan to take a look at how they do it, though, for future reference.
__________________
2014 JKUR Copperhead Pearl
"Rocky Mountain High.......in Colorado "
jon snow is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-08-2014, 08:32 PM   #13
Jeeper
 
HK_Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ken Caryl Valley, Colorado
Posts: 2,244
If I just wanted to replace speakers and add a decent (small) Amp, which ones would you guys recommend? Prefer normal (non-Marine/weatherproof) speakers that can be swapped with the stock ones, and an amp small enough to where I can hide it (under passenger seat?). I may have the upgraded stereo too, but it still is very underwhelming. I just want some crisp and clear notes. 430n with Nav is what I have.
__________________
2014 JKU Rubicon- all white with tan leather

LOD front bumper, AEV rear bumper, TeraFlex tire carrier, Shrockworks sliders, Method Standard wheels, 35" MTR Kevlars, Englewood driveshafts, Synergy 3" Lift, Rancho 9000XLs, Artec truss, Teraflex C-gussets, Grabars, HotHead Liners, MORE dead pedal, Tuffy underseat box, Uniden 520 XL, 10lb CO2 tank...
HK_Runner is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-08-2014, 09:55 PM   #14
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 175
Polk components up front and Polk coax in the rear. Ran off a rockford fosgate pbr300x4.
Kingcat is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-09-2014, 12:09 PM   #15
Jeeper
 
ChasUGC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,505
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingcat View Post
Polk components up front and Polk coax in the rear. Ran off a rockford fosgate pbr300x4.
It's not that simple if he has a JK, he'll probably need a LCi6 or LC8.
__________________
ChasUGC is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-09-2014, 12:59 PM   #16
Jeeper
 
jon snow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 156
I did without the LCi6, with the only consequence being losing fade control, which I was willing to live with. Otherwise everything sounds great after having the amp wired and tuned by a professional installer. Much improved over the underpowered stock system. To each his own, of course !
__________________
2014 JKUR Copperhead Pearl
"Rocky Mountain High.......in Colorado "
jon snow is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-09-2014, 05:09 PM   #17
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasUGC View Post

It's not that simple if he has a JK, he'll probably need a LCi6 or LC8.
The pbr300x4 has speaker level inputs so no a proscesor is not "needed".

Kingcat is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:03 AM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC