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Old 11-15-2006, 10:43 PM   #1
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Cb

ok i've posted one thread about a CB before but i still don't get it
i still don't get all this talk about HAM and TURKEY () and CB's. what the heck is a ham and what exactly is a CB? i know yall said it has channels and low bandwith and high bandwith or somethin like that but be a little more specific. can i get a good CB and have it setup for cheap? and where do i mount it and when would i use it? i still don't get exactly what it is.

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Old 11-16-2006, 05:55 PM   #2
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Ham vs CB: Kind of like explaining the difference between a 747 and a RC airplane...

Ham is slang for Amateur Radio Operator. Amateur Radio requires a License from the FCC by passing a series of tests. Ham radio consists of many different forms of communications from talking on a Mic, like CB, to digital modes using a computer, and a bunch of others. To keep it simple let's just compare the part that is like CB.

Citizens Band is in the 27 Mhz Frequency range of the radio spectrum which is also referred to as CB or 11 Meters (the length of the wave). CB's use channels which are 40 preset frequencies about 10 Khz apart throughout the band. Most CB's use a mode of transmission called AM or Amplitude Modulation. Some of the higher priced CB's also have SSB or Single Side Band which is another type of transmission. CB's running AM are limited to 4 Watts of RF output.

Ham radio includes many different bands of Frequency in the radio spectrum. On the HF band, which includes CB, Hams can transmit on 160, 80, 75, 60, 40, 30, 20, 15, 12, and 10 Meters, from lower to higher in frequency. Ham radio do not use channels, but VFO's which will continually tune across each band. The Ham Bands are coordinated World Wide. The 12 and 10 Meter frequencies are just on each side of the CB band. Hams use SSB, AM, FM, and other modes depending in the band and what we are trying to do.

Why so many bands? Depending on Day Time or Night Time, different parts of the HF Bands work different. At night 80 & 75 are jumping and lots of Hams are on there talking several Hundred miles away and are able to legally run 1500 Watts. Ever notice your AM radio in your car and how you can hear stations far away at night and not during the day? Same thing happens with Ham Radio. During the day, most Hams use 40 or 20, because the lower frequencies are quite. It is common to talk to Europe or Japan on 20 Meters and the signals follow the sun. Europe in the morning and Japan in the afternoon while all over the US between.

CB Operators refer to talking far as "Skip". Skip happens when the signal bounces off of the Ionosphere in space and bounces back to Earth many miles away. In the 11 Meter CB band, this happens when the sunspot cycle is active every so many years. The 10 Meter and some of the higher ham bands work the same way. Right now we are beginning the upswing of the cycle, so there is not much Skip on the band. Depending on elevation, etc. Most CB's will only talk about 7 or 8 miles on groundwave or line of sight. Not because of the low wattage or frequency, it is because the curve of the Earth gets in the way.

Hams also have other bands like VHF and UHF. You probably have heard of 2 Meters. These are the bands hams use for local communications. Because of the groundwave thing, there are things called Repeaters that Hams have which will receive and retransmit the Ham's signal. Most Repeaters are located on top of tall buildings or on tall towers which will cover large areas. This allows a Ham to talk further than the radio by itself would be able to. Here in Texas, we have several Linked Repeaters that cover the whole State. Some Texas hams can also link with other systems and talk all the way to California. Using the Internet, some repeaters link to repeaters in other counties. I have used a local repeater to talk to hams in Australia talking on a repeater down there. VHF/UHF radios normally use FM or Frequency Modulation. They are very quiet without the static and noise heard on CB.

Ham Radio is a Hobby like Jeeps. Ham Radio is Expensive compared to CB, but you get what you pay for. Ham Radios very from about $150 to $10,000 dollars. Then you have to buy antennas, amps, etc.

Why do most Jeepers use CB? It is CHEAP! About $100-$150 dollars will get you a Radio, Antenna, and the Coax to connect to two. CB does not require a License to talk on one! Most of the other Jeeps have one!

Using CB on the Trail to talk to another Jeep is perfect for CB. There are FMS & GMRS walkie-talkie type radios you can buy at any Wal-Mart. These use UHF FM frequencies, but unless everyone else has one, it would get pretty lonely. Same with Ham Radio, unless the other Jeeps have them, you are by yourself. There are several Hams in my local Jeep club, but only a couple have Ham radios in their Jeep. They ALL have CB's in their Jeeps.

If you are out running with other Jeeps or just want to find out from the Trucker's where the "Smokies" are, get a CB. If you are looking for a Hobby with lots of fun Toys and Gadgets, look into Amateur Radio. Checkout www.arrl.org

You wanted to know about Bandwidth. Bandwidth is something to do with how an Antenna will work with a radio band. The CB Band is about 1/2 Mhz wide and you want a Antenna that will work throughout the band or bandwidth. Most of the Ham Bands are much wider. Hams either have to have multiple antennas or use antenna tuners to make the radio think the Antenna is right for the radio's frequency because the antenna does not have enough width to cover the entire range.

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Old 11-16-2006, 08:30 PM   #3
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Man, that's an excellent post.

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Old 11-16-2006, 08:34 PM   #4
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i found a CB for $26 new! good reviews too!
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Old 11-16-2006, 08:52 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by bigjeep
i found a CB for $26 new! good reviews too!
See I told you, CHEAP! You'll probably keep everything around $60 or so.

Where to mount it? Good Luck, that seems like the $64,000 question with Jeeps. You might want to search for some other posts on that subject. I think there is some posts with photos on JeepForum.com. Look at GEEPS' overhead console too.
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Old 11-17-2006, 12:15 PM   #6
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Man, that's an excellent post.

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Old 11-24-2006, 09:50 AM   #7
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Just thought I'd ask a question on CB's in a wrangler also. I found what looks like the perfect one for the roon in a jeep but wanted to know if anyone has had any experience with this model. The radio is in the handset and hooks to an adapter block that is only about 3 inches by 1 in and can be mounted up under that dash.

Thanks for any info
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Old 11-24-2006, 10:34 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by KA5IVR View Post
CB Operators refer to talking far as "Skip". Skip happens when the signal bounces off of the Ionosphere in space and bounces back to Earth many miles away. In the 11 Meter CB band, this happens when the sunspot cycle is active every so many years. The 10 Meter and some of the higher ham bands work the same way. Right now we are beginning the upswing of the cycle, so there is not much Skip on the band. Depending on elevation, etc. Most CB's will only talk about 7 or 8 miles on groundwave or line of sight. Not because of the low wattage or frequency, it is because the curve of the Earth gets in the way.
Although much of the post is true and mostly accurate, there are many details and some "untruths" here. One of which is the "skip" comments. DX or "skip" (propagation) happens on any of the HF bands (specifically) and NOT just the 11 meter (i.e. CB) band. This is important because it's misleading for a newb IMO.

Especially bothersome is the so called fact of "7-8 miles on a groundwave or LoS (i.e. line of sight)" statement!" Dude, I've been into radio for over 30 years and nothing could be further from the truth! That distance would be for an idiot MOBILE operator who could barely follow instructions on changing a wheel...or using an undermodulated Cobra 75 with a POS glassmount antenna. Be factual here. I talk regularly 20-30 miles mobile to mobile on my set ups...as would be the case with 10 or 12 meter operators who know WTF they are doing with their antenna system. CB is no different than what used to be the Novice class license (functionally anyway). Too many No-Code (Tech class license) licenses were issued which made instant (want-to-be) HF experts out of UHF operators.

Personally I know many Hams...mostly either General, Advanced, or Extra ticket (licensed) holders. Great folks...especially when not on their high horse about "747 vs. RC." That has to be one of the most distorted examples I've ever heard.

Other than that, the post was correct (mostly) and good.
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:36 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Odhinn View Post
Just thought I'd ask a question on CB's in a wrangler also. I found what looks like the perfect one for the roon in a jeep but wanted to know if anyone has had any experience with this model. The radio is in the handset and hooks to an adapter block that is only about 3 inches by 1 in and can be mounted up under that dash.

Thanks for any info
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http://www.amazon.com/Cobra-75WXST-W.../dp/B00005N5WW
this is the one I have, it works well on the road when we travel in a pack to wheeling sites and great on the trails. The only thing I'm not crazy about is the weight of the cord (but that's my personal opinion)

since I'm not doing anything today I'll take a few pics to show you where I mounted it
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Old 11-24-2006, 12:45 PM   #10
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this is the one I have, it works well on the road when we travel in a pack to wheeling sites and great on the trails. The only thing I'm not crazy about is the weight of the cord (but that's my personal opinion)

since I'm not doing anything today I'll take a few pics to show you where I mounted it
i wanna see it too!
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Old 11-24-2006, 05:50 PM   #11
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I like that I can disconnect it and put it away when I'm not using it.
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Old 11-25-2006, 05:29 AM   #12
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Thats a nice setup. Your center dash on your TJ is seems slightly different then mine, I like how you used the ashtray spot for the mount. Is the cb block custom or is it model specific? I might have to do some conversion work like that on mine.
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Old 11-25-2006, 11:14 AM   #13
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Although much of the post is true and mostly accurate, there are many details and some "untruths" here. One of which is the "skip" comments. DX or "skip" (propagation) happens on any of the HF bands (specifically) and NOT just the 11 meter (i.e. CB) band. This is important because it's misleading for a newb IMO.

Especially bothersome is the so called fact of "7-8 miles on a groundwave or LoS (i.e. line of sight)" statement!" Dude, I've been into radio for over 30 years and nothing could be further from the truth! That distance would be for an idiot MOBILE operator who could barely follow instructions on changing a wheel...or using an undermodulated Cobra 75 with a POS glassmount antenna. Be factual here. I talk regularly 20-30 miles mobile to mobile on my set ups...as would be the case with 10 or 12 meter operators who know WTF they are doing with their antenna system. CB is no different than what used to be the Novice class license (functionally anyway). Too many No-Code (Tech class license) licenses were issued which made instant (want-to-be) HF experts out of UHF operators.

Personally I know many Hams...mostly either General, Advanced, or Extra ticket (licensed) holders. Great folks...especially when not on their high horse about "747 vs. RC." That has to be one of the most distorted examples I've ever heard.

Other than that, the post was correct (mostly) and good.
Your Amatuer Radio call sign is What? And you Engineering degree is in What and from What college? You might want to reread the content and direction of the original post!
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Old 11-25-2006, 12:34 PM   #14
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Well, I didn't want to say anything to get anything started, but I really couldn't make heads or tails of IBTJn's post. It's full of nonsense.

A mobile am CB running legal wattage may can talk 20 or 30 miles, if there are no obstructions at all. Usually though, there must be a little bounce or scatter involved. AM radio waves are really nasty. They scatter and bounce off everything.

The legal output on 10 or 12 meters is more than 4 watts.

I've only been around radio just for my lifetime. Since when was 11 meters the Novice entry level privelage? I'm not saying that's wrong. It was my understanding that the entry level license was for code only.... before nct.

Comparing CB to ham is like comparing FRS to ham. Just because it is wireless, doesn't mean it is the same thing.

I'm not putting down CB, though. I find it quite useful, and I have enjoyed many conversations on the band. It is what it is, though.
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Old 11-25-2006, 01:14 PM   #15
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A lot of your post is in the right direction - yes skip can happen on any HF band, even VHF bands under special circumstances. Are 20-30 miles common on JUST the CB band? No - this is where the CB is different. 30 miles away we usually stop using HF because our signals are already too high up in the atmosphere and over people's heads until it bounces back down (HF antenna systems have a specific "angle of attack" that they are optimized to to utilize ionospheric reflection to its maximum potential). This is why we use VHF/UHF equipment for short range, satellite and moonbounce excluded (anything less than 100 miles I consider short range - 1000-3000 miles on HF is a normal day). This equipment, for the most part (talking about mobile radios here, which are most common), is also very simple - they have to be since they are intended for quick, casual, local communications, and I don't doubt the way they are set up anyone with half a brain could use them somewhat effectively without doing damage if a few more limitions in their user interfaces were added.

So why don't they just release or VHF/UHF/SHF bands to the public? The bands are still very much active in low power experimentation, satellite use, amateur television broadcasts, earth-moon-earth (EME - moonbounce), amateur position reporting systems (APRS), computer based links, complex repeater systems, etc and so the complex equipment required to set up this infrastructure, and to utilize it, exists and is often more sophisticated than shortwave equipment purely because of the technical demands it must meet - this is also why we need a strongly enforced radio system for these delicate services to work effectively, something you lose in public radio systems (which is obvious on on FRS and CB, and to some extent GMRS).

There is also a growing safety factor that must be accounted for as you go up in frequency - as a ham you can use up to 1,500 watts legally... now imagine operating this much power on a home-built amplifier on the 24Ghz band (ignoring the financial difficulties of undergoing a project like this). No ham in their right mind would build something this massive at this frequency because they KNOW better, and its flat out not necessary, however when "everyone" is allowed to do this this discretion cannot be guaranteed. If someone mishandles this much power and this high of a frequency... people die... simple as that - you'd have a superfocused, directional, extremely powerfull microwave oven. Look at your microwave's wattage, it's around 1500 watts for a powerfull unit, and operates at 2.45Ghz 1/10th the frequency of the 24Ghz ham band commonly used for satellite uplinks/downlinks - that means that at 1500 watts, if ever done, a ham would project 10 times more energy in a focused beam; I don't have to go any further to explain the implications of giving the general public this power.

A good ham operator with HF privileges can work worldwide with the same ammount of power as a comparing CB rig, consistently, almost every day. This is because the radios are much further along technologically, and much more sophisticated (which is as I said in another post why they require licensing - when a ham screws up, things can go horribly wrong). In addition we have a plethora of bands available - usually at least one of them is open and good to go for thousands of miles of distance. Give a ham a 50 watt HF radio on shortwave and he's in heaven, enjoying conversations around the world all the time. Give a person a 50 watt CB radio, he's talking to people the next state over on a good day, or across the country on a REALLY REALLY good day.

The novice operators you describe have limited priveleges on nearly all HF bands - and have access to this "sophisticated" equipment, heavily developed antenna systems, and know how to use it - the only thing keeping them from operating outside of their allowed frequencies and modes (which corresponds to frequencies in reference to band plans) is their own discipline, not the restriction put on the user interface on the transceiver, like a CB. They can do things much more effictively than even a heavily modified CB radio with all kinds of amplifiers because of this. This is also why there is an exam - remember that until recently no code techs were REQUIRED to pass both the novice exam, AND the technician exam to get their class, they just didn't require morse code. Does it do the same thing as a CB in that you can talk to other people on a band considerd in the "HF" range... yes (and V/U/SHF)... but you can do SOOOOO much more. As stated - just because both are wireless doesnt mean they're the same thing in practice.

One more thing - mobile has very little to do with being limited to line of sight. Yes - having a full size base station makes things easy, but long distance DX (worldwide) with relatively low power is VERY MUCH a possibility on shortwave.

CBs have their place without a doubt - I enjoy mine on road trips, and wheeling trips, because EVERYONE has them; but when I want to use my radio for more than local chatter with a few buddies, I switch to my ham radio equipment. To get into a CB as an entry level operator, you just have to know how to turn on the radio and change the channel, and work on increasing your knowledge. To get into HAM radio as an entry level shortwave operator, you have to KNOW the concepts by heart expressed in these question pools: http://www.ncvec.org/downloads/2006tech.txt and http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/el3-release-12-1-03.txt , some of which are common sense, some of which are operating practices and easy to understand, some of which require extensive memorization, and some of which require educating oneself in the physics/electrical principles of radios, and THEN you can turn on the radio and change the frequency, and work on becoming an even more knowledgable operator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBTJn View Post
Although much of the post is true and mostly accurate, there are many details and some "untruths" here. One of which is the "skip" comments. DX or "skip" (propagation) happens on any of the HF bands (specifically) and NOT just the 11 meter (i.e. CB) band. This is important because it's misleading for a newb IMO.

Especially bothersome is the so called fact of "7-8 miles on a groundwave or LoS (i.e. line of sight)" statement!" Dude, I've been into radio for over 30 years and nothing could be further from the truth! That distance would be for an idiot MOBILE operator who could barely follow instructions on changing a wheel...or using an undermodulated Cobra 75 with a POS glassmount antenna. Be factual here. I talk regularly 20-30 miles mobile to mobile on my set ups...as would be the case with 10 or 12 meter operators who know WTF they are doing with their antenna system. CB is no different than what used to be the Novice class license (functionally anyway). Too many No-Code (Tech class license) licenses were issued which made instant (want-to-be) HF experts out of UHF operators.

Personally I know many Hams...mostly either General, Advanced, or Extra ticket (licensed) holders. Great folks...especially when not on their high horse about "747 vs. RC." That has to be one of the most distorted examples I've ever heard.

Other than that, the post was correct (mostly) and good.
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Old 11-25-2006, 06:36 PM   #16
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A lot of your post is in the right direction - yes skip can happen on any HF band, even VHF bands under special circumstances. Are 20-30 miles common on JUST the CB band? No - this is where the CB is different. 30 miles away we usually stop using HF because our signals are already too high up in the atmosphere and over people's heads until it bounces back down (HF antenna systems have a specific "angle of attack" that they are optimized to to utilize ionospheric reflection to its maximum potential). This is why we use VHF/UHF equipment for short range, satellite and moonbounce excluded (anything less than 100 miles I consider short range - 1000-3000 miles on HF is a normal day). This equipment, for the most part (talking about mobile radios here, which are most common), is also very simple - they have to be since they are intended for quick, casual, local communications, and I don't doubt the way they are set up anyone with half a brain could use them somewhat effectively without doing damage if a few more limitions in their user interfaces were added.

So why don't they just release or VHF/UHF/SHF bands to the public? The bands are still very much active in low power experimentation, satellite use, amateur television broadcasts, earth-moon-earth (EME - moonbounce), amateur position reporting systems (APRS), computer based links, complex repeater systems, etc and so the complex equipment required to set up this infrastructure, and to utilize it, exists and is often more sophisticated than shortwave equipment purely because of the technical demands it must meet - this is also why we need a strongly enforced radio system for these delicate services to work effectively, something you lose in public radio systems (which is obvious on on FRS and CB, and to some extent GMRS).

There is also a growing safety factor that must be accounted for as you go up in frequency - as a ham you can use up to 1,500 watts legally... now imagine operating this much power on a home-built amplifier on the 24Ghz band (ignoring the financial difficulties of undergoing a project like this). No ham in their right mind would build something this massive at this frequency because they KNOW better, and its flat out not necessary, however when "everyone" is allowed to do this this discretion cannot be guaranteed. If someone mishandles this much power and this high of a frequency... people die... simple as that - you'd have a superfocused, directional, extremely powerfull microwave oven. Look at your microwave's wattage, it's around 1500 watts for a powerfull unit, and operates at 2.45Ghz 1/10th the frequency of the 24Ghz ham band commonly used for satellite uplinks/downlinks - that means that at 1500 watts, if ever done, a ham would project 10 times more energy in a focused beam; I don't have to go any further to explain the implications of giving the general public this power.

A good ham operator with HF privileges can work worldwide with the same ammount of power as a comparing CB rig, consistently, almost every day. This is because the radios are much further along technologically, and much more sophisticated (which is as I said in another post why they require licensing - when a ham screws up, things can go horribly wrong). In addition we have a plethora of bands available - usually at least one of them is open and good to go for thousands of miles of distance. Give a ham a 50 watt HF radio on shortwave and he's in heaven, enjoying conversations around the world all the time. Give a person a 50 watt CB radio, he's talking to people the next state over on a good day, or across the country on a REALLY REALLY good day.

The novice operators you describe have limited priveleges on nearly all HF bands - and have access to this "sophisticated" equipment, heavily developed antenna systems, and know how to use it - the only thing keeping them from operating outside of their allowed frequencies and modes (which corresponds to frequencies in reference to band plans) is their own discipline, not the restriction put on the user interface on the transceiver, like a CB. They can do things much more effictively than even a heavily modified CB radio with all kinds of amplifiers because of this. This is also why there is an exam - remember that until recently no code techs were REQUIRED to pass both the novice exam, AND the technician exam to get their class, they just didn't require morse code. Does it do the same thing as a CB in that you can talk to other people on a band considerd in the "HF" range... yes (and V/U/SHF)... but you can do SOOOOO much more. As stated - just because both are wireless doesnt mean they're the same thing in practice.

One more thing - mobile has very little to do with being limited to line of sight. Yes - having a full size base station makes things easy, but long distance DX (worldwide) with relatively low power is VERY MUCH a possibility on shortwave.

CBs have their place without a doubt - I enjoy mine on road trips, and wheeling trips, because EVERYONE has them; but when I want to use my radio for more than local chatter with a few buddies, I switch to my ham radio equipment. To get into a CB as an entry level operator, you just have to know how to turn on the radio and change the channel, and work on increasing your knowledge. To get into HAM radio as an entry level shortwave operator, you have to KNOW the concepts by heart expressed in these question pools: http://www.ncvec.org/downloads/2006tech.txt and http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/el3-release-12-1-03.txt , some of which are common sense, some of which are operating practices and easy to understand, some of which require extensive memorization, and some of which require educating oneself in the physics/electrical principles of radios, and THEN you can turn on the radio and change the frequency, and work on becoming an even more knowledgable operator.
This is correct. Nice post!
With the exception of the distancing. IF we were strickly talking about AM (which SSB was brought up therefor I went with it) then in fact the nasty TX of it would be limited. However, mobile to base AM isn't out of line. HF can and does bend some with the earth. You guys already know this though. I didn't specify AM or SSB on my TX, and really should have. However, to say that 10 & 12 meters are totally different isn't true. The frequencies are merely a different (higher/lower) part of the spectrum. The only limiting factor is the radio...which I know lots of Hams (most in fact) who have modified their HF rigs to TX/RX on 11 meters. On the flip side I know many freebanders who modify their HF rigs (bought on egay or wherever) to do the same. Point I was trying to make earlier is that given the right equipment, CB can perform just as well. Antenna system always being the key.

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Old 11-25-2006, 06:58 PM   #17
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Well, I didn't want to say anything to get anything started, but I really couldn't make heads or tails of IBTJn's post. It's full of nonsense.

Comparing CB to ham is like comparing FRS to ham. Just because it is wireless, doesn't mean it is the same thing.
I find your post to be confusing.

FRS operates at about 462mhz, which is really close to the popular 70cm band. Hell, its close enough that my HAM operates quite nicely on both 70cm and FRS. Most modern FRS radios offer an increased power output upwards of 5 watts (same as my handheld.) As IBTJn mentioned the biggest difference between the two is the quality of the equipment and antennas.
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Old 11-25-2006, 08:19 PM   #18
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How is it confusing? You're being to literal. If you think FRS is ham radio just because your ham radio operates on those frequncies, then I can't help you. I have a radio that will tx/rx in VHF and UHF on the TV freqs. Does that make my television a ham radio?

Anyway, what I mean to say there is that CB is comparable to FRS. CB doesn't compare to Ham. Like I said, I am not knocking CB, but it IS a different animal.

Did you join the forum just to say you were confused?

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Originally Posted by RioGrande95 View Post
I find your post to be confusing.

FRS operates at about 462mhz, which is really close to the popular 70cm band. Hell, its close enough that my HAM operates quite nicely on both 70cm and FRS. Most modern FRS radios offer an increased power output upwards of 5 watts (same as my handheld.) As IBTJn mentioned the biggest difference between the two is the quality of the equipment and antennas.
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Old 11-25-2006, 09:57 PM   #19
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Actually yes, I've been lurking for a while now and decided to join the discussion. When you rephrased to compare CB and FRS directly your post made a little more sense.

I never said FRS was HAM radio. You brought up the comparison between the two, so I elaborated for the benefit of others. FRS does have limitations, hardware, power output, ability to use a repeater, etc. I would assume trail communication would be the main focus of a Jeep forum. I would also asume the debate over long range communication would be better suited for a HAM forum.

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Originally Posted by amerijeep View Post
How is it confusing? You're being to literal. If you think FRS is ham radio just because your ham radio operates on those frequncies, then I can't help you. I have a radio that will tx/rx in VHF and UHF on the TV freqs. Does that make my television a ham radio?

Anyway, what I mean to say there is that CB is comparable to FRS. CB doesn't compare to Ham. Like I said, I am not knocking CB, but it IS a different animal.

Did you join the forum just to say you were confused?
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Old 11-25-2006, 10:01 PM   #20
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Well, I'm glad you joined up. I'm always glad to see another op.

I'd love to see some pics of your Rio Grande. They are a rarity around these parts, for some reason.
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Old 11-26-2006, 02:35 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBTJn View Post
This is correct. Nice post!
With the exception of the distancing. IF we were strickly talking about AM (which SSB was brought up therefor I went with it) then in fact the nasty TX of it would be limited. However, mobile to base AM isn't out of line. HF can and does bend some with the earth. You guys already know this though. I didn't specify AM or SSB on my TX, and really should have. However, to say that 10 & 12 meters are totally different isn't true. The frequencies are merely a different (higher/lower) part of the spectrum. The only limiting factor is the radio...which I know lots of Hams (most in fact) who have modified their HF rigs to TX/RX on 11 meters. On the flip side I know many freebanders who modify their HF rigs (bought on egay or wherever) to do the same. Point I was trying to make earlier is that given the right equipment, CB can perform just as well. Antenna system always being the key.

But the problem with that is whether or not a modified ham radio HF (or mil. surplus, commercial, etc.) rig that can be operated on 11M should be considered a part of the CB radio market, or just a ham radio using just another part of the rado spectrum. Yes, it operates on the band, but can all the R&D that went into a good ham HF rig qualify it to be possessed as a "CB radio".

Strictly speaking "off-the-shelf" with realistic intentions, even if CB's didn't have the 4 watt legal limit on them, a CB is made to talk fairly locally, while the ham HF rig, modded for 11m or not, is intended for worldwide usage. Therefore to say to anyone who is curious about what the services were made for that "CB's can talk worldwide" I feel is unrealistic as it's more so "CB's can work worldwide.... with modified ham radio gear". At that point the right answer in my mind inherently becomes "Ham radios are good for long distance communications, as well as local, but requires licensing, whereas CBs are good for local communications, but don't require licensing", because that IS the realistic answer to someone who wants to buy a radio off the shelf, or use readily available, albeit illegal, components (such as 11M amplifiers).

At that point if someone unlicensed desides to buy an HF ham radio rig, and use it on the CB band... well that's entirely up to them, but in a way they are utilizing the ham radio market, just not in a legal manner
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Old 11-26-2006, 06:15 AM   #22
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Very informative info on HAM radio's but it seems to be a bit complicated to me, I have only used CB's on trips and on the trails and don't know much about radios. I listen to Art Bell sometimes and he talks about HAM all the time. I was actually thinking of looking into it and doing some more research. Is there anything I need to concentrate on in my info gathering?
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Old 11-26-2006, 09:05 AM   #23
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Yes, Odhinn. Here's a very good link. It almost makes it sound cheesy, but it is really kinda cool. The site is very informative.

Hello Radio
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Old 11-26-2006, 09:05 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RioGrande95 View Post
I would assume trail communication would be the main focus of a Jeep forum.
x2 on this statement!

I'm not knocking CB either. This part of the Forum should be focused on Trail Communications and what the best way to do it.

I still believe CB is still probably the best choice when it comes to Trail Communications after you consider the Costs, Everyone else having one, No-Licensing, etc. to talk to someone mostly within sight anyway.
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Old 11-26-2006, 09:30 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Odhinn View Post
Very informative info on HAM radio's but it seems to be a bit complicated to me, I have only used CB's on trips and on the trails and don't know much about radios. I listen to Art Bell sometimes and he talks about HAM all the time. I was actually thinking of looking into it and doing some more research. Is there anything I need to concentrate on in my info gathering?

Art Bell is a HAM! It is very common to hear him down on 80 Meters at night talking with his buddies. If you look on his website, I think you can see his Ham Equipment in the background of some of the photos.

If you are looking for a really cool hobby with lots of toys and gadgets, Amateur Radio may be the way to go.

It really is Not very complicated. The tests are not hard to pass, if you study the guides first. The Gordon West books are excellent and you can usually find them at Radio Shack. The first test (Technican) is a simple 50 question muiltple choice test. It is simular to taking the drivers license test at the DMV, except you don't have to stand in that long line!
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Old 11-26-2006, 09:43 AM   #26
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Thank you very much guys, I am going to check into it. In my earlier post I forgot to mension that I talk on a railroad radio for a living all the time. We are monitored to the point that all of our conversations are recorded and the recordings are held for a particular amount of time (which I am not sure of the amount of time held). At work the use of proper railroad radio communication language is the extent of my current experience. maybe that might change in the future. Thanks once again and maybe I will join the ranks if so approved by my household.
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Old 11-26-2006, 11:25 AM   #27
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The Gordon West books are great.

Also check out http://www.hamuniversity.com .
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Old 11-26-2006, 06:12 PM   #28
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maybe I will join the ranks if so approved by my household.
Where abouts in Texas are you?
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Old 11-26-2006, 06:15 PM   #29
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Where abouts in Texas are you?
DFW
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Old 12-31-2006, 03:58 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KA5IVR View Post
x2 on this statement!

I'm not knocking CB either. This part of the Forum should be focused on Trail Communications and what the best way to do it.

I still believe CB is still probably the best choice when it comes to Trail Communications after you consider the Costs, Everyone else having one, No-Licensing, etc. to talk to someone mostly within sight anyway.
I disagree completely.
Our Jeeps spend 95% of their time running around places other than trails and even when we are off road, one of the things I liked to do was find the good places to ride the skip, you can't do that in town.
One of the places I found was a little dish shaped area surrounded by hills , I was able to talk to a guy in Texas from Washington with a hand held CB, now that's fun
Another time I talked to a guy in Oregon from the top of the Grapevine in California.
Since AMy and I are on different schedules, it's not uncommon for one of us to head out to set up camp much earlier than the other, it would be really nice to be able to talk to each other over distances a CB won't normally make.
CB, Ham or FRS, heck, even smoke signals should all be free topics for discussion here IMO.

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