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Old 12-25-2008, 09:54 PM   #1
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Question Finally Going To Do The Sound Upgrade

Hey Guys, Merry Christmas.

Now that Christmas is over I'm finally going to start my sound upgrade.

I'm going to start with the Pioneer Premier DEH-P600UB Head Unit.
For Subs, I've pretty much decided on the Fosgate P2L-210 preloaded subs, and I think I'll push them with the Fosgate T500 1BD amp.

I have Pioneer 4x6's in the dash, but the soundbar speakers are stock, so I'll need to replace those. That's where I'm looking for some advise. Right now I'm looking at the Rockford Fosgate Power T162C 6 1/2" speakers. (That is the size of the soundbar speaker right?) I haven't been able to find any reviews on these. Has anyone heard them before?

If you'd like to suggest any other 6 1/2" speakers for the soundbar, feel free.

I'm also up in the air if I should use an amp for 4 front speakers, or if they will keep up with the amped subs. I know it would sound better amped, but I'm just not sure if I need it. Whatcha think?

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Old 12-25-2008, 10:13 PM   #2
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I'm also looking at some Pioneer Premier TS-A741P, and some Infinity Kappa 63.7i speakers. Anyone familiar with these?

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Old 12-25-2008, 11:32 PM   #3
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factory soundbar is 5 1/4, but 6.5's will fit just fine. i personally have Kicker's all around(they are "water resistant"), but i hear good things about Infinity.
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Old 12-26-2008, 03:04 AM   #4
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factory soundbar is 5 1/4, but 6.5's will fit just fine. i personally have Kicker's all around(they are "water resistant"), but i hear good things about Infinity.
Whoa, they are 5.25"? Thanks for pointing that out! I was talking with an installer a few days ago and he said that all Jeep SoundBar Speakers are 6.5". Guess he doesn't know what he's talking about. So how would a 6.5" fit then? You'd have to drill new holes wouldn't you? The guide at one of the web sites said that the 6.5" wouldn't fit, but maybe they are just referring to a "drop-in" install.

I went out to my Jeep after I read your post, and sure enough the speakers are 5.25". I'm glad I checked it out though because I found that those are NOT the factory speakers in there after all. They're just the factory grills. There are 2 Sony Xplod's in there right now, and by the looks of them, they're not that old. This means that I may not have to replace them at all if I don't want to. However, I'm seriously considering the 5.25" Infinity Kappa's though. Right now they are $90 off, and that's a smokin deal! They have a crossover and a directional Tweeter that will allow you to aim it right at your head, haha. Also, the reviews that people have left are very good, and there are even 4-5 reviews on there from Jeep Wrangler owners. It's nice to see how those particular speakers are working out in Wranglers. So at this point, I think I WILL order them along with my Subs. If they weren't on sale, I'd probably pass. But sometimes you just have to seize the opportunity. We'll see.

As for the Pioneer and Sony speakers that are in there right now:
I readjusted them to just get the highs, (because once the subs are in, that's pretty much all I'll want them for) and really pushed the hell out of them. Zero distortion at notch 20 of 30. By the time I got to notch 22, it was getting annoyingly loud with no bass, and hurting my ears. (just because that soundbar sits pretty damn close to your head probably) So that tells me that those speakers are good, and also makes me think that I might not need to amp them after all. Especially with the new Kappa's being 2ohm. They should draw a bit more power, right? But I still don't know.

Suggestions from everyone would be helpful.
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Old 12-26-2008, 08:57 AM   #5
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STAY AWAY FROM SONY! its all very over priced crap.

im not a huge fan of RF subs and speakers. mtx, audiobahn, kicker, memphis, all have great subs. when it comes to getting an amp you get what you pay for. you could have one of the top subs out and if you are using a cheep amp its gong to sound like crap. as for speakers in the soundbar i have a set of infinity perfect components. in fromt i have infinity kappa 3-way's. here are some pics of the soundbar



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Old 12-26-2008, 12:24 PM   #6
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What size are those Components JMA? Can you fit a 6.5" in there without drilling new holes? Eh, too late now though. I went ahead and ordered those Kappa's along with the Subs. I just couldn't see passing up that price. Although the 6.5" Kappa's are $130 off right now, so they would've actually been the better buy.

I ordered the Fosgate Subs anyways. These are the P2's, so they should sound pretty good IMO. I bought some Fosgate Subs and Amp for my Truck 11 years ago and they're still kick'n hard today. To me, that says something. I just hope that the quality that was once there, STILL IS THERE WITH THEIR NEW PRODUCTS.

Yes, I stay away from Sony as well. The quality isn't there anymore. They made some pretty good products back in the late 80's and 90's, but their new stuff just isn't what it used to be.

Still don't know if I'll need to amp the SoundBar and Dash. I guess I'll just have to wait and see. As of now, below is what I have going.
(after it all comes in of course)







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Old 12-26-2008, 01:18 PM   #7
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yeah they are the 6.5's, and the older RF subs were great but the new ones sound like crap. they may be loud but they sound very sloppy. that headunit should have enough power for the front and back speakers. i saved a large amount of money by getting everything from ebay. you could of gotten a set of kappa components for that price on ebay. and i don't think its that practical to take up that much room in the back for the amount of sound those put out. but to each his own.
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Old 12-26-2008, 07:24 PM   #8
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I thought about going through Ebay at first, but it's really hard to tell what you're getting exactly when going through them. You don't know if they're refurbs, or used and repackaged, etc. The only ramification you have is through PayPal, which can take months to finalize at times. No warranty, bla bla.

I did get pretty good deals on what I bought though. (at least I think so) $90 off the Kappa's, $250 off the amp, $70 off the HU, and $59 off the Subs. So I'm happy with the money end of it. Let's see how it ends up sounding.

As for the Subs, I didn't know that RF hadn't held up their quality standards. Like I said, the ones I have are unbelievable! But let's put it this way, if for some reason they end up sounding like sh*t, I have a 30 day return policy with shipping paid for. In my book, you can't beat that. I could return them and have them send me the comparable 10" dual Kicker Comp Subs, and get $50 back as those were less expensive. I don't have any experience with Kicker, but every audio shop that I have spoken with choose the fosgate P2's over the Kicker Comps for whatever reason.

The space issue doesn't concern me in the slightest. As soon as I bought my TJ, I removed the back seat because my large German Sheppard rides with me alot, and I didn't want him to be cramped up. With that being said, I have a quite spacious cargo area when he's not in there. The box is only 16" Deep and will sit just behind the driver and passenger seats facing the tail gate. I will actually have more room left over than anyone that still has there back seat in. So, I'm pleased with that.

You never mentioned if those 6.5" speakers fit in your SoundBar without with the existing holes, or if you had to make new ones. Which was it? I can always return the 5.25" and get the 6.5" which is a better value with the savings.
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Old 12-26-2008, 07:51 PM   #9
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i can ask some audiophiles at lhforums (intrepid) what they used for door speakers. the dodge intrepid takes 6.5 door speakers...

or if you want to browse the audio section just go to lhforums.net or dodgeintrepid.net is another good place
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Old 12-26-2008, 07:59 PM   #10
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nevermind trep fronts are 6.75
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Old 12-27-2008, 04:53 AM   #11
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i've had a similar speaker discussion (or rather Q&A session) with the very helpful mario (emev0l) in this thread:
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/mari...l-23843-2.html

blacktooth - i find myself in the same speaker uncertainty situation and haven't really decided on anything yet. mario claims it's no problem to put the 6.5 kappas in the soundbar (or at least those soundpods of the more recent wrangler years) and he notified me about those unbelievable deals at crutchfield, but when i called the crutchfield people to ask about accepting international credit cards the guy warned me about gettig the 6.5s and the 5.25s for the wrangler, it's gonna be a mess to put in , etc, etc. since i'm not very confident with my skills in car modifications (not a longtime wrangler owner yet) and some people on this forum obviously have mad skills when it comes to wrangler mods, i once again refrained from getting them, but the thought (and that price deal!!) still lingers in the back of my head.

i think i will order them after all. mario was right about the possibility to put a double-DIN headunit into a wrangler, so i think his words are absolutely reliable, haha...

let me know about your next steps. and jma20a - how big are those components of yours? new holes or not?
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Old 12-27-2008, 12:29 PM   #12
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There is a company that makes plates so you can put 5 1/4's in the dash, instead of the little 4X6's. The company is Offroad Toy Store. I bought mine off E-Bay. Haven't did yet though. Did the soundbard was very easy, just new holes and bend a little metal then right in.
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Old 12-27-2008, 01:12 PM   #13
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and jma20a - how big are those components of yours? new holes or not?
they are 6.5's and i had to remove the soundbar so that i could fit the crossovers in the soundbar. i also had to cut a small part of the fabric to get the tweeters to fit along with an extra hole for the wires from the tweeter to the crossover. i also replaced all the factory speaker wire with a better quality speaker wire.
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Old 12-27-2008, 03:25 PM   #14
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Hello all and no I am not even gonna pretend that I am a speaker guru but....since my lil bro installed my Alpine CDA-9825 deck which was a "snug" fit to say the least, my so-called stockish stereo sounds SO much better becuz now I have a deck that is way my user friendly than the stock one and I can utilize EQs, Fade, Mx, etc to make it sound way better than it ever could before! I am workin the hell out of the "pod" speakers which apparently are aftermarket cuz they r doin well so far but as far as an educated "opinion" on subs/subwoofers.....I am an MTX fan the WHOLE way! I currently have 2 MTX 10" subs that were in my big Ford that I traded for the Jeep and my amp is a JBL but we haven't had the time to install that part of my stereo yet. My brother is the pro but the ONE thing that I have learned with subs is that u HAVE to have the EXACT precise AIRSPACE to get clean and solid sound out of them. We measured n calculated and built our own custom fully enclosed speakerbox for the 2 MTX 10s and HOLY COW did they put others with double the subs, etc to shame! Ultimately, I have decided what with the room I DON'T have in the Jeep (mine's an 04), that we r going to design a box for ONE 10" sub and by all rights n means, it should work my ragtop pretty hard!!! Plus....if u research and do it RIGHT.....one 10 will produce just as much as 2 10s.... The front speakers in the Jeep stink so I work the pod speakers more than them for now seeing that mine is still under construction... FYI if u invest in a decent deck then u should only need an amp to run the sub but it all depends on OHMS, etc, etc and that is when I call my brother!! Hehe Moral of this story.....if u are NOT a stereo guru and I am not, make SURE u know what the heck u r doing or find someone who DOES and that is not an easy task...
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Old 12-27-2008, 04:14 PM   #15
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mtx, audiobahn, kicker, memphis are the only subs i would use. i have had my fair share of subs and those four always sounded great. as for a headunit he has chosen there will be no need for an amp for the speakers. i have a 10" audiobahn immortal sub and amp and i can set off car alarms while driving down the street with my windows cracked. and my infinity speakers in the soundbar can make you ears ring for a few minutes after its cranked. and the best part is there is very little to no distortion at full volume.
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Old 12-27-2008, 05:42 PM   #16
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mtx, audiobahn, kicker, memphis are the only subs i would use. i have had my fair share of subs and those four always sounded great. as for a headunit he has chosen there will be no need for an amp for the speakers. i have a 10" audiobahn immortal sub and amp and i can set off car alarms while driving down the street with my windows cracked. and my infinity speakers in the soundbar can make you ears ring for a few minutes after its cranked. and the best part is there is very little to no distortion at full volume.
Where do you have your sub located? Do you have a backseat?
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Old 12-27-2008, 05:46 PM   #17
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no back seat, took that out along time ago. i have it bolted the the floor so its not going anywhere anytime soon.
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Old 12-27-2008, 07:08 PM   #18
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Any suggestions on a sub with a backseat? I did have a bazooka but I don't think I'll be installing it.
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Old 12-27-2008, 07:15 PM   #19
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Any suggestions on a sub with a backseat? I did have a bazooka but I don't think I'll be installing it.
good to here you are not going to use a bazooka sub. as for a sub on the back they make small truck and hatchback boxes for a sub. the only thing is that there isn't a lot of room for a sub to perform at its greatest, what you should do with a box to small is to add packing to the box, this gives it a semi-deeper sound that is close to what it should sound like in the right size box.
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Old 12-27-2008, 10:32 PM   #20
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Jma,
Whats the deal with the crossover in the Kappa's? You said you had to remove your SoundBar to get them in? Can't you put them in the same hole as the speakers, just before you put the speakers in?
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Old 12-27-2008, 10:38 PM   #21
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i've had a similar speaker discussion (or rather Q&A session) with the very helpful mario (emev0l) in this thread:
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/mari...l-23843-2.html

blacktooth - i find myself in the same speaker uncertainty situation and haven't really decided on anything yet. mario claims it's no problem to put the 6.5 kappas in the soundbar (or at least those soundpods of the more recent wrangler years) and he notified me about those unbelievable deals at crutchfield, but when i called the crutchfield people to ask about accepting international credit cards the guy warned me about gettig the 6.5s and the 5.25s for the wrangler, it's gonna be a mess to put in , etc, etc. since i'm not very confident with my skills in car modifications (not a longtime wrangler owner yet) and some people on this forum obviously have mad skills when it comes to wrangler mods, i once again refrained from getting them, but the thought (and that price deal!!) still lingers in the back of my head.

i think i will order them after all. mario was right about the possibility to put a double-DIN headunit into a wrangler, so i think his words are absolutely reliable, haha...

let me know about your next steps. and jma20a - how big are those components of yours? new holes or not?
Thanks for that link RobinHood. Why did Crutchfield say the 6.5 and 5.25 Kappa's would be bad for a Wrangler?
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Old 12-27-2008, 10:55 PM   #22
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Ntddyz,

Yeah, I agree about the air space. The RF Subs that I ordered are Preloaded in a RF Box, so I would presume that RF built them right for those Subs. And I'm "hoping" that they sound good. Jma has spooked me a little bit with his comments about Rockford not being what the used to be. We'll just have to wait and see.

If they sound like sh*t then I'll probably swap them out for the 10" Preloaded Kicker Comps. On different forums I hear alot of people like them, but all the audio shops that I have spoken with prefer the RF P2's over the Comps, so I don't know. Audiobahn was suggested as well, but I personally think those sound like sh*t for Rock/Heavy Metal/Death Metal. A friend of a friend has some, I just think they're garbage. Maybe better for Rap, I dunno.
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:25 AM   #23
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as far as re-drilling for 6.5's, the metal is so thin up there you dont even need a bit; the screw will make its own hole if you give just enough pressure.
it sounds kinda intimidating. "re-drilling your speaker holes", but if youre using a power drill you wont know if you hit old holes or not.
just connect/hold the speaker up, use one of the factory holes to hold the speaker in, hit the other 3 holes, and there ya go- way better sound than 5.25's!
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:13 AM   #24
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as far as re-drilling for 6.5's, the metal is so thin up there you dont even need a bit; the screw will make its own hole if you give just enough pressure.
it sounds kinda intimidating. "re-drilling your speaker holes", but if youre using a power drill you wont know if you hit old holes or not.
just connect/hold the speaker up, use one of the factory holes to hold the speaker in, hit the other 3 holes, and there ya go- way better sound than 5.25's!
Thanks for that description TigerTrack!
I'm gonna order the 6.5" Infinity Kappa's right now then. They are the ones that I originally wanted, and the better deal being as they are $130 off right now. Plus they are 3 way, while the 5.25" that I ordered are only 2 way.

Then I'll probably just send the 5.25" back, unless someone thinks they would sound better than the 4x6 Pioneer 3 way that I have in my dash now. If so, don't I need a special plate for that? How much is it, and where do I find such a plate?
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:47 AM   #25
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Okay, I just ordered them. Thanks again TigerTrack. I don't know if I mentioned where I was getting these for such a good price. If not, i will right now. I'm getting them from Crutchfeld. The Infinity Kappas 5.25" are $90 off and the 6.5" are $130 off.

I don't know if any of you guys shop there or not, but if you'd like to, here is my refferal code:
p2fsx-a8dv1-ij5c0

It will save you $20 off your first purchase of $200 or more. Feel free to copy and paste it in when you are checking out.
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:43 AM   #26
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Thanks for that link RobinHood. Why did Crutchfield say the 6.5 and 5.25 Kappa's would be bad for a Wrangler?
well, the guy just advised me that getting these speakers will involve a lot of modifications to the car since there's really not enough space in the dash for the 5.25s, plus the space provided "by the factory" is not round but rectangular (the 4x6s). at this point, i think we all know that. and this is why mario got these adapter plates off eBay, and the crutchfield man is obviously always looking for the easiest, most secure way possible. they definitely don't want to get hit with guarantee and/or return claims from stupid people who get oversized speakers without doing all the research.

he also said that the 6.5s are simply too big for the openings in the sound bar or pods. but again, as mentioned above, these holes are easily drilled and you obviously do get much more bang for the buck.

newbie that i am, i was a little intimidated by his sober words, but i've overcome my fears, will believe the voices in these threads, and order those frickin' speakers now. i'm sick of all the decision making! yes.
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:48 AM   #27
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front 5.25" adapter plates: (id go off ebay or make your own. its just a piece of plastic, there will be no difference in quality)

here is an actual jeep related website, the company "33" has very nice products:
33 Engineering 5-1/4 Speaker Adapter Plates for 97-06 Jeep Wrangler (Pair): OffroadToyStore

here is a write up on how to put the adapters in:
ROCKCRAWLER.com - 33 Engineering 5 1/4 Speaker Adapter Plates for TJ

here is the cheapest ebay listing i ran across:
5¼" Front Speaker Adapters for 1997+ Jeep Wrangler TJ - eBay (item 310110994136 end time Dec-30-08 06:33:17 PST)
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:58 PM   #28
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I am not sure if it was just my unit but I figured that I would post up a quick warning about that Pioneer head unit. I have the same one in my wrangler and it started having issues a few weeks ago and it just recently crapped out on me. From what I was able to gather on it, it has a thin data ribbon that sends the power ect from the head unit to the faceplate. That ribbon flexes when the face slides open to insert a cd or remove the faceplate. It appears that though the frequent opening and closing to remove the faceplate/change cds, as well as the bumping and jostling my jeep sees, something caused the ribbon to wear out or come loose, and the faceplate no longer gets any power nor can it control anything. I loved the headunit and was pretty impressed with its functions, and I dont know if anyone else has ever had that issue with this head unit, but I figured that I would post up a heads up to be careful with that ribbon.
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:25 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by tigertrack1600m View Post
front 5.25" adapter plates: (id go off ebay or make your own. its just a piece of plastic, there will be no difference in quality)

here is an actual jeep related website, the company "33" has very nice products:
33 Engineering 5-1/4 Speaker Adapter Plates for 97-06 Jeep Wrangler (Pair): OffroadToyStore

here is a write up on how to put the adapters in:
ROCKCRAWLER.com - 33 Engineering 5 1/4 Speaker Adapter Plates for TJ

here is the cheapest ebay listing i ran across:
5¼" Front Speaker Adapters for 1997+ Jeep Wrangler TJ - eBay (item 310110994136 end time Dec-30-08 06:33:17 PST)
Great Info TigerTrack! Thanks again.
I just ordered the 5.25" conversion plates. I guess I just committed myself to keeping the 5.25" Kappa's for the dash. I just hope I'm not getting in over my head. I'm not really comfortable with cutting away metal on the inside of my dash. That piece MUST support something, right? Do you know what? Will it weaken my dash in any way, or is it just a support for the 4x6's? Will I ever be able to use the 4x6 mounts again if I want/need to?

The other thing I'm leery about is the wiring of the crossover. I understand what the crossover does, but I have no clue on how to wire it in. Can someone who has done this explain it a bit please? Do I need extra stuff that isn't already in there?
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:35 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jp90Talon View Post
I am not sure if it was just my unit but I figured that I would post up a quick warning about that Pioneer head unit. I have the same one in my wrangler and it started having issues a few weeks ago and it just recently crapped out on me. From what I was able to gather on it, it has a thin data ribbon that sends the power ect from the head unit to the faceplate. That ribbon flexes when the face slides open to insert a cd or remove the faceplate. It appears that though the frequent opening and closing to remove the faceplate/change cds, as well as the bumping and jostling my jeep sees, something caused the ribbon to wear out or come loose, and the faceplate no longer gets any power nor can it control anything. I loved the head unit and was pretty impressed with its functions, and I don't know if anyone else has ever had that issue with this head unit, but I figured that I would post up a heads up to be careful with that ribbon.
Jp90Talon,
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope that this is just an isolated issue. Did you send it in for repair? Pioneer warrants the Premier models for 2 years.

I don't have my HU yet, but I've seen that the face has to open for you to detach it. Does it open up automatically when you shut your vehicle off. If so, can you somehow disable that feature so it's not constantly opening and closing for no reason? I would think that could wear out the motor very quickly. I'm not worried about wearing it out on my own with CD's because one of the main reasons I bought this unit was because of the rear USB support, so I can use my 16GB thumb drive for music. (plus all of its other capabilities of course) If you can't disable that auto feature, I too am concerned with the longevity of this unit.

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