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Old 05-04-2017, 11:13 AM   #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDawg View Post
I found it interesting that the Arizona Rocky Road Mounts guy found under-dash mounting unfeasible because of his 6 foot height, but he can live with an overhead mount. I have a Poison Spyder trail cage and had a Uniden Bearcat 980 SSB CB mounted to the overhead bar, dead center, for sometime. I cannot tell you how many times I hit my head on that thing getting in, on trail, or just leaning over to get into the glove box. That's the sole reason I no longer have a CB mounted there.



^^^ This is a neat installation, but for a tall guy it looks like it would be an even worse head knocker and even block vision because it hangs so low.

To the OP I'm going to go with the "You're crazy to even think of running that thing" option -- not because I think it's a bad radio (on 10 Meters) but because it's really going to be a challenge to find a GOOD way to mount it. Probably your least obtrusive option if you MUST run a radio of that size (without a detachable face plate) is on the passenger's side of the console. I've seen a mounting plate for that location advertised, but can't remember where. Wouldn't be too hard to fab something up though if you have some tools and skills.

Edit: Bingo! https://www.quadratec.com/products/96080_0201.htm
Thanks for the replies and ideas everyone.

Before I buy I may find a scrap piece of aluminum or light steel from a fixture at work and temporarily mount it just to see if it will be in my way. I'm 5'7" so height isn't a problem with me. I thought of under the dash, side of console but I sit a little close to the steering wheel so I can get the clutch depressed fully. The passenger side, well I'd have to listen to my wife complain about how it is in the way on the rare occasion that she rides in the Jeep. That would lead to me telling her to get out and find her own way home, I'd get a divorce and it would wind up being a really expensive radio.
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Old 05-04-2017, 02:32 PM   #782
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Maybe I got the idea from you. I can't remember where I first found the link, but I installed it a little over 2 years ago. I actually had to cut off part of the ears on mine to get it to fit. Did you have this issue as well?

No, mine bolted right up without issue. I don't recall the install procedure but is there any way you might have accidentally mounted it 180 from where that modification wouldn't have been needed? Mine bolted up without any modifications.

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Old 05-04-2017, 02:41 PM   #783
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Originally Posted by DirtyDawg View Post
I found it interesting that the Arizona Rocky Road Mounts guy found under-dash mounting unfeasible because of his 6 foot height, but he can live with an overhead mount. I have a Poison Spyder trail cage and had a Uniden Bearcat 980 SSB CB mounted to the overhead bar, dead center, for sometime. I cannot tell you how many times I hit my head on that thing getting in, on trail, or just leaning over to get into the glove box. That's the sole reason I no longer have a CB mounted there.



^^^ This is a neat installation, but for a tall guy it looks like it would be an even worse head knocker and even block vision because it hangs so low.
Even my bottom radio is positioned above the mirror so it's not blocking any forward vision. And when I have my seat belt on, I couldn't hit either radio with my head if I tried.

Mounting radios on a roll cage is a crapshoot but that's how I mounted mine on my previous (stolen) TJ. I sure don't recall it being an issue even there.

This is the first setup I mounted on a plate attached to the top of two of my previous TJ's roll cage spreaders... it was all mounted high enough to be a complete non-issue. I mounted the radios on an aluminum plate secured to the top of the forward spreaders.

This pic is how I had the radios mounted in my previous TJ.
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Old 05-05-2017, 01:49 AM   #784
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I am 6' 1" and have a FT-8800 mounted dead center. I also had a Galaxy 959 CB (pretty big unit for a CB, but I wanted SSB and those seem to all be big) mounted next to it on the passenger side. I would consider the side-by-side mounting approach rather than stacked. Downside (which isn't really a problem) is that the visor is in the permanently down position. I have never hit my head on either one and I have manual windows. I am thinking it might not be just height alone, but a long torso that may be the contributor. One could always mount a foam pad on the bottom of the radio to soften the blow. But, I would think after hitting your head a dozen times or so that would have stopped?
Lol, it did! Eventually. I moved the radio. The delay was in figuring out what else to do with it. I eventually went with a different radio and mounted it in-dash (JK).

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Even my bottom radio is positioned above the mirror so it's not blocking any forward vision. And when I have my seat belt on, I couldn't hit either radio with my head if I tried.

Mounting radios on a roll cage is a crapshoot but that's how I mounted mine on my previous (stolen) TJ. I sure don't recall it being an issue even there.

This is the first setup I mounted on a plate attached to the top of two of my previous TJ's roll cage spreaders... it was all mounted high enough to be a complete non-issue. I mounted the radios on an aluminum plate secured to the top of the forward spreaders.

This pic is how I had the radios mounted in my previous TJ.
That installation looks much less obtrusive, being tucked up between those two longitudinal members.
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Old 05-05-2017, 10:48 AM   #785
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Lol, it did! Eventually. I moved the radio. The delay was in figuring out what else to do with it. I eventually went with a different radio and mounted it in-dash (JK).



That installation looks much less obtrusive, being tucked up between those two longitudinal members.
It was actually close to the same height since my present Arizona Rocky Road mount also mounts on top of the roll bar. The Arizona mount may be 1/2" lower but that's just a guess and a non-issue for me.
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Old 05-13-2017, 08:14 AM   #786
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I agree not to use cheap coax but at the short lengths of cable in a vehicle, RG58 works fine since the run length is so short, no need to use RG8x. I'd only worry about that for a fixed base where the coax run might be 75-100 ft.

For a typical vehicle run of 15', the db loss difference between RG8x and RG58 is only .245 dB at 150 MHz. .245 dB is insignificant and not worthy of making it sound like there's a DRAMATIC difference. There isn't. In reality, it takes about 3 dB for the human ear to be able to hear/notice a difference. And it takes a doubling of power to cause a 3 dB difference... so that .245 dB difference is truly insignificant.

Been doing this stuff for literally >50 years and I'll just say you'd never notice the difference between the larger diameter RG8x and RG58 in a mobile installation. If there was, like there is with the antennas at my house with their 100' runs, I'd run the larger diameter but it's just too insignificant of a difference in a vehicle to try to make it sound like it is dramatic and worth worrying about... it isn't.
Mini8x and 8x are not the same cable mini8x is slightly thicker than 58 and has twice the shielding, and it is measurable in the amount of noise it is able to block. As for your "> than 50 years experience", I dont want to get insulting but I seriously have to call it into question as you are mixing sound and RF in your dB comparison, and again in the 100ft cable run you wouldnt use mini8x nor 58, you would go to RG213 or better. As for your "dB loss a1 150Mhz, it is NOT .245 dB its 2.4 -2.7 dB PER FOOT, so yes you will notice a difference real fast. in fact, in 10 foot in can mean a matter of twice as much MEASURED rf power reaching the antenna. I an an Electronics Engineer, and this is my profession, and hate to call you out on this but handing out false information is not only uncalled for, but is out and out trolling and lying. Especially when you are trying to hand it to people who have the information directly available to them through the ARRL. Dont bother back pedalling, it will only make you look worse.
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Old 05-13-2017, 02:40 PM   #787
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Check you data sheets again. No cable has a loss of 2.4 dB per foot unless you are up in Ghz frequencies. At HF you could use RG 174 and not notice the difference.

Cable shielding does not block noise. Unshielded transmission line, does not pickup and more noise than coax does.
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Old 05-13-2017, 05:22 PM   #788
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Check you data sheets again. No cable has a loss of 2.4 dB per foot unless you are up in Ghz frequencies. At HF you could use RG 174 and not notice the difference.

Cable shielding does not block noise. Unshielded transmission line, does not pickup and more noise than coax does.
X2.

Not to mention I absolutely did not say there was only a loss of .245 dB with any of the cables I mentioned as he he tried to claim I did.

What I DID say was that there is a difference of .245 dB in loss when comparing 15' of RG-58 vs. 15' of RG-8x at 150 MHz. In other words, the RG-58 incurs an insignificant .245 dB more loss over 15' at 150 MHz when compared to RG-8x. Big difference in what was claimed that I said vs. what I actually said. Reading for comprehension would have caught that before deciding to unload on what I said.

We're talking about running coax cables from our radios in Jeeps which is generally 20' or less of length. Which is why RG-58 continues to be a popular coax cable for CB and and our ham radios installed in Jeeps. Loss difference at 15-20' between RG-58 and RG-8x etc. is, as I first said, truly insignificant to any person reasonably well educated in this subject.

If I had been talking long runs like between my HF ham station and antenna at home which is roughly 100', I would have recommended RG-213/U like I use at home. Which would be a stupid ill-conceived choice of cable for my Jeep.

In other words, I have learned enough about coax cables over the past 50 years since I first connected a PL-259 to one to know which one to use depending on the application. In fact it was probably 55 years since I connected my first purchased length of RG-8/U coax cable to my first ham antenna which was a fairly crude 15m beam.

This is what I use at home, just not in my Jeep. So I'm not adverse to paying for good cable when warranted. The key is to know when more expensive coax is warranted and not warranted. Sufficient amounts of the right kind of experience will teach that.
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:43 PM   #789
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Check you data sheets again. No cable has a loss of 2.4 dB per foot unless you are up in Ghz frequencies. At HF you could use RG 174 and not notice the difference.

Cable shielding does not block noise. Unshielded transmission line, does not pickup and more noise than coax does.
I suggest you double check your facts, because you are wrong there bucko. In fact you may want to invest in an ARRL amateur radio handbook. And you will find that at frequencies above 30Mhz ladder line gets extremely noisy.
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:52 PM   #790
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X2.

Not to mention I absolutely did not say there was only a loss of .245 dB with any of the cables I mentioned as he he tried to claim I did.

What I DID say was that there is a difference of .245 dB in loss when comparing 15' of RG-58 vs. 15' of RG-8x at 150 MHz. In other words, the RG-58 incurs an insignificant .245 dB more loss over 15' at 150 MHz when compared to RG-8x. Big difference in what was claimed that I said vs. what I actually said. Reading for comprehension would have caught that before deciding to unload on what I said.

We're talking about running coax cables from our radios in Jeeps which is generally 20' or less of length. Which is why RG-58 continues to be a popular coax cable for CB and and our ham radios installed in Jeeps. Loss difference at 15-20' between RG-58 and RG-8x etc. is, as I first said, truly insignificant to any person reasonably well educated in this subject.

If I had been talking long runs like between my HF ham station and antenna at home which is roughly 100', I would have recommended RG-213/U like I use at home. Which would be a stupid ill-conceived choice of cable for my Jeep.

In other words, I have learned enough about coax cables over the past 50 years since I first connected a PL-259 to one to know which one to use depending on the application. In fact it was probably 55 years since I connected my first purchased length of RG-8/U coax cable to my first ham antenna which was a fairly crude 15m beam.

This is what I use at home, just not in my Jeep. So I'm not adverse to paying for good cable when warranted. The key is to know when more expensive coax is warranted and not warranted. Sufficient amounts of the right kind of experience will teach that.
Jerry stop back pedalling, I used the system quote and it used your words EXACTLY. and the manufacturers charts say otherwise to that. and they list losses per foot not overall.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:18 PM   #791
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Lol whatever you say. You're clearly too impressed with yourself and obviously well practiced at making snide comments to make further discussion with you worth continuing. Get over yourself and practice reading for comprehension.

I'll end all this with a compliment... you made a great choice of user name because your confrontational style is indeed toxic. Just put you into the Ignore category, you're just not worth any time.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:26 PM   #792
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I am using LMR-400 for my HF base. 2.2 dB loss per 100m at 30 MHz. My run is around 55m and I operate at 20m and 40m mainly.
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:31 AM   #793
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Jerry stop back pedalling, I used the system quote and it used your words EXACTLY. and the manufacturers charts say otherwise to that. and they list losses per foot not overall.
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Umm... You might want to revisit the Times Microwave site and take a closer look. The calculator you link to shows RG-58 as having a loss of 5.6dB per hundred feet (0.056dB/ft) at 150 MHz...

-Pat

Edit to add - Times Microwave shows RG-213 to have a loss of 2.4dB/100 feet @ 150 MHz.
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:01 AM   #794
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Oh, and duh - the subject of this thread. Recently minted ham here - K1BSY (was able to resurrect my father's old call sign from the late 50s/early 60s, when he had his ticket back before I came along). Guys at the vintage radio museum I volunteer at had been after me to get it for a few years now; finally got in gear and took (& passed!) the tech and general exams at a recent session. Going through the ARRL book on the extra now and will hopefully take a crack at that one soon.

No gear yet, but will be looking to get set up in the coming months, both mobile and a home station.

-Pat
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:34 AM   #795
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Good luck on that Extra. I bought the books to upgrade to Extra years ago but decided there was just too much new digital 'stuff' in there to have to learn. I will stick with my General, it lets me work the HF frequencies I enjoy most.

N6TAY

P.S. Do you still fly Cubs? Cool airplane if you do. The only taildraggers I ever flew were Citabrias.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:18 AM   #796
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Thanks! I haven't really gotten to the 'digital' section of the book yet, but thus far it has seemed pretty straight forward. All the new craziness will likely be more of a challenge.

I haven't flown in far too long, but have an old J-5A Cruiser (evolved into the PA-12 post war with a bigger engine and pressure cowl) waiting to be restored. It seems I can have time, or I can have money (though this damned Jeep isn't helping the latter too much recently!!), but never both simultaneously.

The extent of my tail dragging has been in J-3s, my J-5, and the PA-12 I initially got my conventional gear signoff in. I still have not gotten my paws on anything aerobatic. Some day...

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Old 05-19-2017, 10:25 AM   #797
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Thanks! I haven't really gotten to the 'digital' section of the book yet, but thus far it has seemed pretty straight forward. All the new craziness will likely be more of a challenge.

I haven't flown in far too long, but have an old J-5A Cruiser (evolved into the PA-12 post war with a bigger engine and pressure cowl) waiting to be restored. It seems I can have time, or I can have money (though this damned Jeep isn't helping the latter too much recently!!), but never both simultaneously.

The extent of my tail dragging has been in J-3s, my J-5, and the PA-12 I initially got my conventional gear signoff in. I still have not gotten my paws on anything aerobatic. Some day...

-Pat
Oh wow, how fun. I never really mastered taildraggers, I just never swapped ends in one (yet) lol. I did do some beginning aerobatics in the Citabria but switched over the Czech-built Zlin 242B (rented) for that kind of expensive malarky... it was a more fun airplane.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:20 AM   #798
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Oh wow, how fun. I never really mastered taildraggers, I just never swapped ends in one lol. I did do some beginning aerobatics in the Citabria but switched over the Czech-built Zlin 242B (rented) for that kind of expensive malarky... it was a more fun airplane.
Haha - I too have managed to stay in the 'them that will' category thus far with regards to keeping the little wheel at the back while on the ground (and with my lack of aviating at this point expect to remain there for the foreseeable future).

The Zlin does look like a fun little flying machine! And as for flying, is there anything that isn't expensive? It is certainly a pastime that I miss.

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Old 05-20-2017, 05:53 AM   #799
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Oh, and duh - the subject of this thread. Recently minted ham here - K1BSY (was able to resurrect my father's old call sign from the late 50s/early 60s, when he had his ticket back before I came along). Guys at the vintage radio museum I volunteer at had been after me to get it for a few years now; finally got in gear and took (& passed!) the tech and general exams at a recent session. Going through the ARRL book on the extra now and will hopefully take a crack at that one soon.

No gear yet, but will be looking to get set up in the coming months, both mobile and a home station.

-Pat
Congratulations on getting your ticket, good luck on you Extra, & getting your dad's call sign. Welcome to the hobby.

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Old 05-20-2017, 03:51 PM   #800
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Congratulations on getting your ticket, good luck on you Extra, & getting your dad's call sign. Welcome to the hobby.

Terry, n0ve
Thanks, Terry. LOL - just what I needed - another expensive hobby!

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Old 05-20-2017, 05:42 PM   #801
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Thanks, Terry. LOL - just what I needed - another expensive hobby!

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Congratulations! Yes, HF base station setup can be very expensive and time consuming. The good news is that the USD to Japanese Yen exchange rate is still very favorable for transceivers in the USA.
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Old 05-20-2017, 06:16 PM   #802
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I too stopped at my General ticket. It's a hobby that can be as expensive or as cheap as you want to go. There are so many specialized avenues to peruse. I just have fun with it and am on-again-off-again kind of ham.The better you get at it the more you can do with less. I get a big kick out of making a contact in Michigan from here in Arizona with 75 watts and a vertical on my IC745 (25 year old rig like my YJ). Code is even more fun they say but I've never been able to learn it.
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Old 05-20-2017, 06:47 PM   #803
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I too stopped at my General ticket. It's a hobby that can be as expensive or as cheap as you want to go. There are so many specialized avenues to peruse. I just have fun with it and am on-again-off-again kind of ham.The better you get at it the more you can do with less. I get a big kick out of making a contact in Michigan from here in Arizona with 75 watts and a vertical on my IC745 (25 year old rig like my YJ). Code is even more fun they say but I've never been able to learn it.
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How does that vertical work for you Gene? I've run nothing but multi-band dipoles since my CC&Rs prevent me from installing a nice beam on a even a short tower. I think I could get away with a vertical as my lot's pretty big & I doubt the one neighbor who could barely see it would complain. A vertical antenna's vertical polarization has kinda soured me on them but at this point, it'd sure be less trouble than my multi-band dipole that is hard to keep up due to lack of a good support for one end of it.
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Old 05-20-2017, 11:39 PM   #804
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Jerry,
I'm using an old Cushcraft R7 and I'm 6500 feet altitude. When the 40 meter band is open I can really get out there. There a lot of antenna designs that you can hide and are very effective. A lot of verticals don't work well but the Cushcraft ones are great.
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Old 05-21-2017, 06:09 AM   #805
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I've been a ham since 1984 and and extra since 1990. I mainly operate HF CW. I have quite a station with equipment I have accumulated here and there. I don't have to have the latest whiz bang box and really like restoring and operating tube equipment.

Ham radio is one of the cheapest hobbies on the planet. Unless you compare it to say bird watching in your back yard with a cheap pair of binoculars. You can buy a complete station for around $500 and it will serve you for years. Of course, this is used equipment. I run radios from the 60's. So the stuff will last a very long time.

My opinion on verticals. They are a great antenna when that is all that you can use such as automotive applications and neighborhood restrictions. A wire mounted in any configuration will almost 100% out perform a vertical. I have heard and worked stations on a low dipole that you could not hear on the vertical due to the polarization. If you put the two on an a/b switch and switch back and forth, you will quickly see what I am talking about.

I had no experience with Jeep TJS. So when I bought my 2004, I had grand ideas of mounting a full size tarheel and installing a nice radio. Did'nt take long to figure out that is really hard to do.....
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:29 AM   #806
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
How does that vertical work for you Gene? I've run nothing but multi-band dipoles since my CC&Rs prevent me from installing a nice beam on a even a short tower. I think I could get away with a vertical as my lot's pretty big & I doubt the one neighbor who could barely see it would complain. A vertical antenna's vertical polarization has kinda soured me on them but at this point, it'd sure be less trouble than my multi-band dipole that is hard to keep up due to lack of a good support for one end of it.
Jerry, aside from polarization, the challenge with most verticals is having an adequate ground plane. If you can't install a good radial system, you'd be better off to figure another way to support your dipole. There are also rigid dipole options out there and for 10, 15, or even 20 meters, it wouldn't be too difficult to fabricate your own (monoband). When I was a young ham, I built a 10m rigid dipole from salvaged TV antennas! It worked great and I had many QSOs into South America and the Caribbean on it. My Dad also had some success with a wire loop on the ceiling of the ham shack, but you could also put one in your attic. And there are commercially available "stealth" antennas for attic installation as well. Just didn't want you to think a vertical was your only other option besides your wire dipole. And wanted to be sure you knew about the importance of the ground plane as well.

73 de WD5COT (Scott)
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Old 05-21-2017, 10:43 AM   #807
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Thanks guys, you confirmed what I was thinking all along, just to keep the dipole which does work really well. At least it works well when its far end is up off the ground lol. For sure, dipoles do work well.

Heck my first single band 10m dipole worked the world when I only had a Tech Plus license. It was installed inside my attic since I couldn't have any external antennas at my previous house. A neighbor even threatened to sue me when I saw me start to install a small outside dipole 12" off the peak of the roof. That simple single-band antenna in the attic worked Vladivostok Russia, Japan, Pitcairn Island, Tasmania, much of western Europe, etc.

Glad you all talked me out of the vertical... I knew what you guys were going to say, I've advised others against them for the same reasons lol. I guess I should just get off my lazy butt and sink a vertical support in some concrete in a hidden part of my backyard so it won't be too visible to support the far end of the dipole. What is sad is I have a huge multi-level lot but it and my CC&Rs are just not antenna-friendly.
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Old 05-21-2017, 10:31 PM   #808
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Multi-band verticals are good for what they are and take up very little space. An elevated 1/2 wave dipole is also a great antenna, but it's single band and can take up a lot of linear ground space at long wavelengths.

Keep in mind propagation is very bad now, so what worked years ago may not cut it now.

I went with a HyGain AV-18HT (10/15/20/40/80m) two years ago. This has been a great setup for me and very happy with it. I have worked countries all over the world on 40m and can pretty much hit anything in the USA on 20m with good regularity. Polarization is not an issue on HF bands as it gets scrambled anyway. Radials are very important and there have been many papers written on the subject. There is a lot of misinformation regarding the performance trades of the numbers of radials so careful research is a must. Otherwise you will spend an eternity digging trenches.

https://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/2238

I don't have any restrictions on antennas at my property (other than 100 ft limit) and I could have installed a Yagi if I wanted. But honestly I don't really want to look at something that monstrous in my yard. Only got my General in 2014, so I thought (correctly) that the vertical would be a good way to introduce myself to the hobby and the various HF bands to see if I liked it and wanted to pursue it further.

From my experience the cost of this antenna (around $950) is about 35% of the total cost for all the other parts needed to make the installation. 5000 lbs of concrete for example was $500 to have delivered, pumped, and finished. Specialized tools can be expensive as well. For my caliche type earth I needed a Bosch Electric Demolition Hammer to drive 16 eight foot long ground rods that go around the perimeter of my house. Grounding wire is #2 solid copper wire with exothermic connections. - Copper is not inexpensive and I needed 250 feet of the stuff. 200 feet of LMR-400, coax surge protector, 1000ft of 14ga wire for the radials, radial plate, junction box for home entry, the list goes on and on.

For anyone considering a vertical, do the research ahead of time, know what you are getting into cost and time wise. It is a major undertaking to correctly install an antenna in ones yard. I personally would never put the antenna right next to the house if there is alot of lightening in the area. Mine is about 100 feet away from the house.

Southern Arizona is known for it's spectacular lighting shows and I every year I get hits very close to my property. I have heard some people just put one or two ground rods at the home entry point, but that is insufficient to protect the house from a lightening surge. Take the time and do it right, it is time and money well spent.

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