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Old 11-27-2013, 10:13 PM   #1
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Pioneer low profile sub or any other?

Greetings guys, I am old school audiophile and have been beating myself up about ANY sub option for my JK 2dr that does not compromise all of the limited space behind the back seat.

I have read some good things about this sub: Pioneer TS-SWX251 Compact sealed enclosure with one 10" shallow-mount sub at Crutchfield.com

The size is right, and it's down firing. Do any of you have any experience with this? ANY chance in hell it would even be slightly audible with the top off?

Option 2: JL Audio 10TW3-D4 Shallow-mount 10" subwoofer with dual 4-ohm voice coils at Crutchfield.com

Much like the first , but I would build a low profile box. It's a little beefier than the Pioneer but, I wonder if it's worth the extra coin and trouble of building a box.

Option 3: Something like this JL Audio CP208LG-W3v3 MicroSub™ slot-ported enclosure with dual 8" W3v3 subwoofers at Crutchfield.com

I would modify it with some MDF "End Pieces" to make it downfire so that I could still stack stuff on top if needed. It's ported so it may go just loud enough to be heard with the top off.

I have 400 watts to work with out of the sub channel of an Alpine PDX 5. I understand that with the top off and moving, you would have to have serious subs (at least a pair of 12s) in a big ported box to hear decent bass. What I am looking for is something that does a good job with the hard top on and a "yeah I can hear that it's still plugged in" with the top off (at city speeds).

For the money the Pioneer is hard to beat (especially at just over $100 on Amazon right now). I have built plenty of big systems in my time, I just refuse to give up the only very limited storage space for it in this vehicle.

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Old 11-27-2013, 10:49 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by loudvegas View Post
Greetings guys, I am old school audiophile and have been beating myself up about ANY sub option for my JK 2dr that does not compromise all of the limited space behind the back seat.

I have read some good things about this sub: Pioneer TS-SWX251 Compact sealed enclosure with one 10" shallow-mount sub at Crutchfield.com

The size is right, and it's down firing. Do any of you have any experience with this? ANY chance in hell it would even be slightly audible with the top off?

Option 2: JL Audio 10TW3-D4 Shallow-mount 10" subwoofer with dual 4-ohm voice coils at Crutchfield.com

Much like the first , but I would build a low profile box. It's a little beefier than the Pioneer but, I wonder if it's worth the extra coin and trouble of building a box.

Option 3: Something like this JL Audio CP208LG-W3v3 MicroSub™ slot-ported enclosure with dual 8" W3v3 subwoofers at Crutchfield.com

I would modify it with some MDF "End Pieces" to make it downfire so that I could still stack stuff on top if needed. It's ported so it may go just loud enough to be heard with the top off.

I have 400 watts to work with out of the sub channel of an Alpine PDX 5. I understand that with the top off and moving, you would have to have serious subs (at least a pair of 12s) in a big ported box to hear decent bass. What I am looking for is something that does a good job with the hard top on and a "yeah I can hear that it's still plugged in" with the top off (at city speeds).

For the money the Pioneer is hard to beat (especially at just over $100 on Amazon right now). I have built plenty of big systems in my time, I just refuse to give up the only very limited storage space for it in this vehicle.
I too am an old schooler. I actually still have a vehicle with a soundstream continum and Quart separates and JL original 12w6s. I sure miss the old days. I did a ton of research and even looked at the new slim 10 inch JL subs as well. I listened to a lot of subs and ended up going with these in my tundra DC as its very limited on space and I love them.They do not have a hollow sound like the other slim subs and their cheaper than the JL and Alpine and sound much better . Pioneers were horrible sounding.

Helix Esprit E10W

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Old 11-27-2013, 10:49 PM   #3
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Pioneer compared to JL isn't worth the comparison. It's like comparing a Jeep to a Hummer or a Suzuki Samurai. Of course the Jeep is way better.
Likewise, JL is way better.

As far the enclosure, there is a guy on another thread raving about Helix and a down-firing, low profile sub that puts out 500watts RMS from 2-10" subs, for the JK.
This is the way to go, especially if space is a consideration. You could also switch out the subs for another manufacturer which he lists available on Ebay.
If you have a 400watt sub amp, then it seems like a perfect fit.

The Ebay ad says he will match the carpet to your vehicle too.

07 13 Jeep Wrangler 4 Door Custom Sub Woofer Box Loaded 2 Helix Audio B10 Subs | eBay
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:56 PM   #4
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Pioneer compared to JL isn't worth the comparison. Of course, JL is way better.

As far the enclosure, there is a guy on another thread raving about Helix and I down-firing, low profile sub that puts out 500watts RMS from 2-10" subs, for the JK.
This is the way to go, especially if space is a consideration. You could also switch out the subs for another manufacturer which he lists available on Ebay.
If you have a 400watt sub amp, then it seems like a perfect fit.

The Ebay ad says he will match the carpet to your vehicle too.

07 13 Jeep Wrangler 4 Door Custom Sub Woofer Box Loaded 2 Helix Audio B10 Subs | eBay
This is the set up in my Jeep and although they are not shallow they entire box inst but 7.5 inches tall. The builder is a hell of a nice guy also and I am sure if you wanted to build it yourself he would help you out
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:00 PM   #5
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I'm running a 10" in the rear. It's not a compact, just a "regular" Polk. Went with a cube box that met the air space requirements for that sub. I keep it slid to one side in the rear and can easily remove it if/when needed.

I did have a compact powered sub in the rear at one point but found it just didn't produce the bass I wanted.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:08 PM   #6
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Also although I have never had my top off of my Rig I have owned several convertible cars over the years and always found a down firing box sound best with top down. Not really sure why but i would some at something to do with loading .
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:08 PM   #7
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This is the set up in my Jeep and although they are not shallow they entire box inst but 7.5 inches tall. The builder is a hell of a nice guy also and I am sure if you wanted to build it yourself he would help you out
I actually have my own upgraded sound system. 7" flip screen DVD HU, Clarion 746 7-band EQ, 4-5.25" CDT speakers @90watt RMS each, Nalin front speaker adapters, MTX Audio Thunderform loaded with 2-10" MTX speakers @ 400watts RMS, and a Alpine PDX-V9.

I was just recommending your box to the OP after your rave review and seeing it and the specs. Especially, since he wants a low profile, down firing setup. And, being that he has a JK. Bartender, give us a round. lol.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:30 PM   #8
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I actually have my own upgraded sound system. 7" flip screen DVD HU, Clarion 746 7-band EQ, 4-5.25" CDT speakers @90watt RMS each, Nalin front speaker adapters, MTX Audio Thunderform loaded with 2-10" MTX speakers @ 400watts RMS, and a Alpine PDX-V9.

I was just recommending your box to the OP after your rave review and seeing it and the specs. Especially, since he wants a low profile, down firing setup. And, being that he has a JK. Bartender, give us a round. lol.
I have the CDT ES62ius in my daily driver. Really nice speakers. There tech support leaves a lil to be desired but damn nice seperates.
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Old 11-28-2013, 12:26 AM   #9
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I have the CDT ES62ius in my daily driver. Really nice speakers. There tech support leaves a lil to be desired but damn nice seperates.
Yep, those are the speakers that I was talking about. Awesome speakers.
The Tech support over at Easy Way is way better too. One of those guys actually came on this forum to talk about them. He is an authorized distributor.

The CL-51CV and the CL-61CV are rated at 150watts and 160watts RMS.
They can be easily converted to either components or coaxial. They cost around $150. They have the crossovers and all the hardware to convert them.

CL 51 CV

CL 61 CV


I actually have another model CL-51CEX that is rated around 90-110watts RMS. Mine cost me $100 a pair. They too could be converted, but CDT phased them out for the CL-CV series because they didn't want to make two similar models, and the CV series was a little better. I happened to get the last of some left over stock from an unauthorized dealer. But, my dealer, manager and part owner, was so confident about the quality of the CDT's that he personally warrantied them for three years.
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Old 11-28-2013, 12:48 AM   #10
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Yep, those are the speakers that I was talking about. Awesome speakers.
The Tech support over at Easy Way is way better too. One of those guys actually came on this forum to talk about them. He is an authorized distributor.

The CL-51CV and the CL-61CV are rated at 150watts and 160watts RMS.
They can be easily converted to either components or coaxial. They cost around $150. They have the crossovers and all the hardware to convert them.

CL 51 CV

CL 61 CV


I actually have another model CL-51CEX that is rated around 90-110watts RMS. Mine cost me $100 a pair. They too could be converted, but CDT phased them out for the CL-CV series because they didn't want to make two similar models, and the CV series was a little better. I happened to get the last of some left over stock from an unauthorized dealer. But, my dealer was so confident about the quality that he personally warrantied them for three years.
The guy i bought my helix from is also a CDT Gold Dealer and my ES cost around 750 dollars and the Helix Esprit will walk all over them for 260 dollars. I actually listened to them in Tundra with a similar set up as to mine with Es And i do mean walk all over them. The cl is a nice entry level line and do sound good. The owner of CDT is named ken and he is from Europe as the company is based in Europe and all product are made in Europe. Ken and his wife Enga live in California now. CDT was actually made after Clif Designs break up. Ken was one of the original owners of Clif. Here are my components in my Tundra daily driver. And i regret spending that much for them when the Esprit from Helix actually sound much better . Midbass is more precise and accurate and tweeters are just as smooth as the CDT . I do however like the UPSTAGE Tweeters .




CDT Audio ES-62iUS 6.5" UPSTAGE Component Set


Sorry for the thread hijack my man
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Old 11-28-2013, 09:18 PM   #11
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Pioneer compared to JL isn't worth the comparison. It's like comparing a Jeep to a Hummer or a Suzuki Samurai. Of course the Jeep is way better.
Likewise, JL is way better.

As far the enclosure, there is a guy on another thread raving about Helix and a down-firing, low profile sub that puts out 500watts RMS from 2-10" subs, for the JK.
This is the way to go, especially if space is a consideration. You could also switch out the subs for another manufacturer which he lists available on Ebay.
If you have a 400watt sub amp, then it seems like a perfect fit.

The Ebay ad says he will match the carpet to your vehicle too.

07 13 Jeep Wrangler 4 Door Custom Sub Woofer Box Loaded 2 Helix Audio B10 Subs | eBay
Says its for a 4dr. I have a 2dr.

I am looking for something similar though. What can you guys say about your setups with the top down. Can you hear any sub at say less than 40 mph? I don't expect much but as long as it's somewhat filling it a bit with the mids/highs (amplified JL C5 components) it will be OK.
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:23 PM   #12
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From what I've heard, its best to have a downfiring subwoofer especially with the top down. That one is a downfiring sub setup. Otherwise, you lose most of the effect in the air. It is the best reputed setup for subs that being 2-10". I have that setup and its awesome. You also get a better feel from it with it downfiring. When I feel it, that's when I enjoy it most too.

It's really hard to get a decent subwoofer setup if you don't want to give up any space too. I was the same way, and for 16 years, I didn't get one for that reason. Maybe, we are all strange that way in that we don't want to give up our real estate. lol. Then, I realized that the tiny space in the so-called trunk wasn't really that much to give up. The acoustical rewards were great compared to that small sacrifice for me. Now, I'm so glad I did it. The sound is awesome.

Any who(lol), about that specific subwoofer, I would message the Ebay seller. You can ask him a question on Ebay. Since, it is low profile, and since they are custom made, you could ask him if it would fit in your trunk of your model year. It does say its 40" wide, and you could measure your Jeep trunk space. Then, you could get the depth from the seller. If it won't fit, and since it is custom, I don't see why they couldn't make it a little smaller. The best sub system is going to be in the rear. And since, it is low profile, you can put stuff on top of yours, and you won't really sacrifice that much space. I've seen other alternatives for adding additional storage inside the rear door too. Good Luck.
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:42 AM   #13
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Says its for a 4dr. I have a 2dr. I am looking for something similar though. What can you guys say about your setups with the top down. Can you hear any sub at say less than 40 mph? I don't expect much but as long as it's somewhat filling it a bit with the mids/highs (amplified JL C5 components) it will be OK.
.

Don't give up any space....

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I guarantee you hear and feel these going 70 with you top off. 10" Sundown SD-2 - 500w RMS each.
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Old 11-29-2013, 09:17 AM   #14
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.

Don't give up any space....

Attachment 551698

I guarantee you hear and feel these going 70 with you top off. 10" Sundown SD-2 - 500w RMS each.
I do think this is a good concept. I just don't understand why you didn't downfire them. It would be more enjoyable and wouldn't have all that bass going right up into your seat. I think the way they are designed the motion would make my stomach queasy and give me a headache. I think my passenger would definitely get car sick. Sorry, just being honest. I do like the concept, just not up firing, and directly below me. Although, you do get better fill in the back. But overall, this is probably the best concept I've seen for not losing your space at all.
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Old 11-29-2013, 11:34 AM   #15
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.

Don't give up any space....

Attachment 551698

I guarantee you hear and feel these going 70 with you top off. 10" Sundown SD-2 - 500w RMS each.
That is pretty awesome, but I have a 2 door and that wont work with the tilt forward seats.

Care to fill us in on those boxes? Pre fab, or did you build them?
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Old 11-29-2013, 12:58 PM   #16
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I have a single 10" downfiring with port facing forward and i can assure you i can def hear it, feel it at 70mph doors off top down. Was a custom box i built in the rear for storage as well
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Old 11-29-2013, 03:03 PM   #17
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I have a single 10" downfiring with port facing forward and i can assure you i can def hear it, feel it at 70mph doors off top down. Was a custom box i built in the rear for storage as well
Got a picture of your setup?
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Old 11-29-2013, 03:27 PM   #18
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Loud my guy says to email him and he can build pretty much anything you want. James@tech12volts.com is his email. I was suppose to start my install today but i got stuck shopping with the wife. I did however hook my box up to my home audio yesterday as it was killing me and was able to rattle my walls and piss my wife off nicely . Lol

Sent from AutoGuide.com App
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Old 11-29-2013, 03:59 PM   #19
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Got a picture of your setup?
My first ever box build. Turned out pretty slick, has ample amount if lockable storage and sub enclosure built into. Now granted mine is for my LJ but with adjustments of numbers it would look the same just not be so deep.
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:05 PM   #20
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I do think this is a good concept. I just don't understand why you didn't downfire them. It would be more enjoyable and wouldn't have all that bass going right up into your seat. I think the way they are designed the motion would make my stomach queasy and give me a headache. I think my passenger would definitely get car sick. Sorry, just being honest. I do like the concept, just not up firing, and directly below me. Although, you do get better fill in the back. But overall, this is probably the best concept I've seen for not losing your space at all.
. Everything you describe does not happen and is flat out wrong.. No queasiness, no car sickness, no brown note. Just subtle bass that can be felt and heard. I stole the idea from BMW since they put their subs firing up under the front seats of their highest end sedans. I just kicked it up a notch since they only use 8" subs. I tried in the back and under the back seats and could not hear them with the top off. No way to down fire under seat subs because there is not room.
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:06 PM   #21
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That is pretty awesome, but I have a 2 door and that wont work with the tilt forward seats. Care to fill us in on those boxes? Pre fab, or did you build them?
. Custom molded fiberglass boxes built to .52 cu ft.
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:48 PM   #22
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. Everything you describe does not happen and is flat out wrong.. No queasiness, no car sickness, no brown note.
You can't say I'm wrong unless everyone has the same constitutions, and they don't. Some people get sick in airplanes, I don't. But, I do get queasy and headaches listening to hard pumping gangsta rap. I also get car sick easily.
Everyone has different feelings. Some people don't get car sick easily. Some people can spin around on amusement park rides and not get sick. I have been in cars with crazy subwoofer systems and I got sick.

I've raced BMW's in my 1967 GTA Convertible Mustang which I modified for street racing, and I killed a BMW. So, just because BMW does something doesn't make it the best. That goes for Ferrari too.

So, I'm not wrong. It depends on each individual person's preferences and tolerances.

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I tried in the back and under the back seats and could not hear them with the top off. No way to down fire under seat subs because there is not room.
Your statement here confirms my point. If you up fire a sub, you can't hear it with the top off. I don't know what you mean about not being able to down fire them in the back seat. If you mount them inside the back seat, there is plenty of room to down fire them. I've seen it done.

And, the space required for a sub woofer is the same up or down. You can also down fire them under the front seat. It is just a matter of engineering since you only need 1-2 inches of open space below them. If you mount them in a square box, that is going to cost room. If you mount them behind 1" plywood, that is also going to cost room. You could for example, cut out a tight circular hole in the back and push the magnet flush with the plywood. Therefore, you could save one inch of space that way. There are also low profile subwoofers that can be used to save even more room. Like I said, it is just a matter of engineering.

Don't get me wrong though. I am not disrespecting your setup. It looks nice and it is a good idea. It is just not my preference. It may work for you, and it may work for someone else. If you are happy with it, that's great, and I'm happy for you. That's all that should matter for you.

It just isn't for me. When I sit in my living room, I don't have my subwoofer underneath me. That would be really uncomfortable. I'm sorry but that is just the way I feel. And, I'm not wrong about my personal feelings. I'm entitled to have my own personal feelings. I mean all of this in a peaceful, friendly manner. It is just a difference of opinion.
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Old 11-29-2013, 08:05 PM   #23
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Here's the proof that there is room under the back seat.

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Old 11-29-2013, 08:31 PM   #24
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Here's the proof that there is room under the back seat.
I'm curious, why are those hear seat hinges sticking up like that when folded? Mine sure don't! I don't have any exposed hinge like that
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:02 PM   #25
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You do, you probably just don't remember it, if you have taken out your seat. In the picture the seat is shown upside down, so that you can see the subs from the rear.
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:18 PM   #26
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You do, you probably just don't remember it, if you have taken out your seat. In the picture the seat is shown upside down, so that you can see the subs from the rear.
Mine folds & flips forward just like the photo so you can see my underside of the seat and I do not have those long hinges sticking up. I can sit a piece of plywood across my flipped seat all the way to the back & without those hinges sticking up. I flip my seat forward almost every day.

I also notice his front seats are shaped different, so maybe the hinges are an issue with the earlier tjs. See in my pic of my backseat flipped
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:22 PM   #27
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You do, you probably just don't remember it, if you have taken out your seat. In the picture the seat is shown upside down, so that you can see the subs from the rear.
In other words those subs actually are in the Back of the seat, not the bottom.
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:26 PM   #28
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In other words those subs actually are in the Back of the seat, not the bottom.
Wait so those are in the back of the upright seat? Im confused. So theyre not downfiring then but firing towards the tailgate?
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:33 PM   #29
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From the looks of it they would normally point towards the front when folded, and towards the tailgate when the seat is unfolded. It looks like they've gone through the process of folding the seat, then ejected it from it's bracket and spun it around.
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:48 PM   #30
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It looks like they've gone through the process of folding the seat, then ejected it from it's bracket and spun it around.
Exactly. It's spun around 180 degrees clockwise.

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