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Old 03-29-2014, 01:22 PM   #1
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Question on speaker upgrade...

Ok, I got the Polk Audio 651 6.5 inch speakers to upgrade the sound bar. After playing with the fader, there doesnt seem to be a whole of power going to the soundbar, and the front dash speakers are much louder. Should I put these polks in the front instead of soundbar? They fit either place. Just seems like i would get most bang for my buck there. I poly filled the soundbar. Should poly fill be done in the dash too?

I have a 2011 unlimited with the infinity/sub package.

Thanks

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Old 03-29-2014, 02:59 PM   #2
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The problem is that the Infinity speakers are 2ohm speakers, and twice as loud as the 4ohm Polks. Which also means, the Infinity speakers will reach their peak and blow out twice as fast as the Polks. ( I blew out a pair of Infinity speakers myself)

Personally, I think 2ohm speakers suck. You might want to put another pair of Polks in the front, and later maybe add an amp to properly amplify them.

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Old 03-29-2014, 08:44 PM   #3
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The problem is that the Infinity speakers are 2ohm speakers, and twice as loud as the 4ohm Polks. Which also means, the Infinity speakers will reach their peak and blow out twice as fast as the Polks. ( I blew out a pair of Infinity speakers myself) Personally, I think 2ohm speakers suck. You might want to put another pair of Polks in the front, and later maybe add an amp to properly amplify them.
The first part of this is not correct. There's nothing wrong with 2 ohm speakers.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:24 AM   #4
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The first part of this is not correct. There's nothing wrong with 2 ohm speakers.
Yes, I guess that is why everyone just loves their stock Infinity speakers. My fault, sorry.
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Old 03-30-2014, 06:09 PM   #5
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Yes, I guess that is why everyone just loves their stock Infinity speakers. My fault, sorry.
This has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Stop providing bad information and trying to back it up with arguments like this, please.
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:14 PM   #6
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Well, I've got the Polks. I'll see how they do.
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:34 PM   #7
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This has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Stop providing bad information and trying to back it up with arguments like this, please.
I'm not going to get into a flame argument with you, sorry. These continued personal attacks are really off topic. If you disagree with something that I've said, please say what it is, instead of making personal attacks on me. Thank You.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:02 PM   #8
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These are other opinions of Infinity speakers owners, and I agree because I have had them too.

"I sure hope u can return the infinity. As someone previously stated, it's very bright and midbass is practically non-existant."

"Lower ohms have a higher rate of distortion.
Or at least thats what Morels multimillion dollar research team concluded."

"I have Kappas in my truck. I bought them on clearance. I can't wait to get rid of them. Your ears will be bleeding after 10 minutes. I typically like bright highs, but "harsh" is an understatement. I much prefer the sound of Polk DBs vs. Kappas."

2 ohm vs. 4 ohm and Infinity

Benefit of running a sub at 4 ohms vs. 2? - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum
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Old 03-30-2014, 09:25 PM   #9
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Well, I've got the Polks. I'll see how they do.
I hope you enjoy your selection! I've heard a lot of good reports.

I've never messed with Infinity mids/highs so I won't comment there...

However, any additional distortion that may be present in a 2 ohm speaker vs a 4 ohm speaker is going to be negligible to anyone not competing in a SQ comp... especially if they drive a Jeep!! Beep Beep!!
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:15 PM   #10
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Well, I've got the Polks. I'll see how they do.
Please come back and give feedback on how you like the Polks. It might help other members who are considering the same speaker upgrade. Most people here say that they are really good speakers.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:17 AM   #11
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Will do. I think I will put them in the sound bar first,see how it sounds. I'm not expecting much. I m going to pick up 2 more for the front on payday.
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:59 AM   #12
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JimboFL, you are putting a 4 ohm speaker in a 2 ohm system, basically you are reduce the power output of the amp in half. It does not matter where you put them it will be the same. You need to be careful doing this. I don't know the rating of the speakers you bought but there is the possibility of blowing the speaker because of distortion. Under powering a speaker is not a good thing.

I am doing the same thing though as I can not afford to upgrade my amp yet. I will take my chances and see what it sounds like. If it does not sound that great I will disconnect until I have the amp. Actually the stock system sounds better without the sound bar anyway.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:00 AM   #13
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Terry I know you know what you mean but you should be careful using the term underpowering. Using less than RMS for any given speaker won't harm it unless the signal is clipped (which is easier if it's underpowered).

Like I said I know you know that cause you mentioned it in the other thread but just so everyone is on the same page, its the clipped signal and not the under powering that causes harm.
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:53 PM   #14
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JimboFL, you are putting a 4 ohm speaker in a 2 ohm system, basically you are reduce the power output of the amp in half. It does not matter where you put them it will be the same. You need to be careful doing this. I don't know the rating of the speakers you bought but there is the possibility of blowing the speaker because of distortion. Under powering a speaker is not a good thing.

I am doing the same thing though as I can not afford to upgrade my amp yet. I will take my chances and see what it sounds like. If it does not sound that great I will disconnect until I have the amp. Actually the stock system sounds better without the sound bar anyway.
Just because Jeep used 2ohm speakers, doesn't mean it is a 2ohm system. You can put 2ohm or 4ohm speakers on a Head Unit. Jeep probably used 2ohm speakers because they are louder, and cheaper. Most Head Units are 4ohm Head Units. Even the cheapest stereo on Crutchfield is measured at 4ohms.

CEA2006 Specs:
16 watts RMS x 4 channels (at 4 ohms, 20Hz-20kHz, 1% THD-N)

Clarion FZ150 Digital media receiver at Crutchfield.com

I've never seen a 2ohm HU. I seriously doubt that Jeep used a 2ohm HU. I've also never seen Jeep give such detailed specs on their audio systems, such as THD, RMS, or ohms, at all.

In fact there is a lot of debate about how 2ohm speakers could damage and shorten the life of a Head Unit for obvious reasons.

2 ohm speakers are bad for your headunit - Speakers - Car Audio, Video, & GPS - Crutchfield Forums

Alpine iDA-X001 w/ Infinity Kappas - Speakers - Car Audio, Video, & GPS - Crutchfield Forums

But, I do agree that you should not use these "High Powered 50x4" Headunit to power your speakers. The reason being is that they include a lot of unrated distortion above the RMS value of the HU. I never use the "loudness" button on my HU, for this reason. This button "kicks in" the internal amplifier, and where I have seen specs on such power, it was given as 8-10% THD. And, this particular marine HU seemed to think that 8% THD was a decent distortion spec. 8% THD is horrible distortion. And, you can expect higher distortion from HU's that don't give that THD value at 50watts. Most HU's only give a rating without the internal amp "kicked in". They will say, 22watts@1%THD, but say nothing about the distortion at 50watts, on their "High Powered" Head Units.

I tried the loudness button on my head unit, but I heard way too much distortion, and I immediately brought an external amplifier. And, I never used or needed to use that loudness button again. But, just to be safe, if you do crank it up, and push the loudness button, just turn the volume down when you hear too much distortion. As, it could damage your speakers.

Is it really pleasant to hear loud music that is so distorted anyway?
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:08 PM   #15
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I must further say though, that I wouldn't run 2ohm speakers and 4ohm speakers at the same time on a HU. I would run all 4ohms, or all 2ohms. I am just not sure how the electronics in the HU, will handle two different ohms on the same circuits. Likewise, I wouldn't run 2ohm front speakers, 4ohm Rear Speakers, and a 1ohm subwoofer, on a 5 channel amp. Some might argue that it is okay, but I wouldn't do it.
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:14 PM   #16
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I must further say though, that I wouldn't run 2ohm speakers and 4ohm speakers at the same time on a HU. I would run all 4ohms, or all 2ohms. I am just not sure how the electronics in the HU, will handle two different ohms on the same circuits. Likewise, I wouldn't run 2ohm front speakers, 4ohm Rear Speakers, and a 1ohm subwoofer, on a 5 channel amp. Some might argue that it is okay, but I wouldn't do it.
Depends entirely on the amps specs. Some have the front 4 channels only stable to 4 ohm but a sub channel stable at 2 or 1 ohm. Each manufacturer has their own recommendations. Follow those.
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Old 03-31-2014, 05:01 PM   #17
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Well, the big problem I m having with all this is that my system specs are some kind of state secret. Why is it so hard to find the details of your jeep system? I am assuming my system is 2ohms, but don't really know for sure. I assume the sub is 2ohms, but don't really know.

Also, when someone says "stock system" i assume they are talking about the base jeep/Chrysler stereo. I don't refer to mine as stock, even tho it came from the factory. I call it the Infinity system, 362w with sub. Are the speakers in my system the same or different than the "stock" or base system? When someone says stock, what do they mean?

Thanks for all your help.
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Old 03-31-2014, 05:16 PM   #18
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When I say stock I mean whatever the factory installed. That being said, and if you're getting another set of speakers for the dash, I simply suggest a 4ch amp and Line Output Converter being installed with your stock HU unless you're certain you're going to do an aftermarket sub. If you're certain on a sub then a 5 channel amp like Chas said may be a good option. Then you'll be ready to replace the factory sub and have power for the new one.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:59 PM   #19
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Chas would you stop posting BS. 2 ohm speakers are no louder than 4 ohm, 8 ohm or even 16 ohm speakers. It all depends on the speaker design and the amp used to power it. If you have a amp rated at 2 ohms for 400 watts and a 4 ohm amp rated at 400 watts paired with matching speakers they will be both have the same volume capability.

The reason 2 ohm systems and even 4 ohm systems exist is because of the voltage limitation in car audio systems. It is much easier to produce power at 2 ohms than at 4 ohms, this is a simple fact. We could have a amp that produced power for a 16 ohm speaker but it would take up your trunk to do so.

Our systems in our Jeeps do not run power from the HU but from an amp. When an audio engineer designs a system they used matched components. I know of no engineer that would match 4 ohm speakers to a 2 ohm rated amp. Talk about crippling a system from the get go.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:00 PM   #20
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When I say stock I mean whatever the factory installed. That being said, and if you're getting another set of speakers for the dash, I simply suggest a 4ch amp and Line Output Converter being installed with your stock HU unless you're certain you're going to do an aftermarket sub. If you're certain on a sub then a 5 channel amp like Chas said may be a good option. Then you'll be ready to replace the factory sub and have power for the new one.
I agree
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:57 AM   #21
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I got the soundbar speakers in. The difference is marginal. The dash is next. Then I'll probably amp it at some point.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:01 AM   #22
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Amping will show a huge improvement.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:15 AM   #23
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I am working on the same project. I am currently upgrading the sound bar and will have a write up on it in the next couple of days. I am not expecting miracles, the stock amp will not push the speakers I am installing, Morel Maximo's. What I do expect though is clean vibration free sound. Watch for the write up.
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Old 04-01-2014, 08:11 PM   #24
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I replaced ALL the 2011 Infinity stuff shortly after getting it with JL Audio speakers, sub-woofer, and power amp, and an Alpine head unit. It has AMAZING sound quality AND volume capabilities! I've never been happier with a car audio system...and over a lot of years, I've had a bunch...:-)
The dealer was able to get me a better deal on a marine power amp that JL was clearing which has been a good thing given that they are better sealed and waterproofed than ordinary ones.
The next item will be a custom JL sub woofer/power amp enclosure that mounts at the back on the floor and utilizes the shallow storage area at the back just in front of the tailgate. It comes with a 10" woofer (like the one I currently have in a box). I've seen it installed on other Jeeps and takes up hardly any space AND nobody would even know there's anything there...
Definitely consider JL!
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:14 PM   #25
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From what I remember, most head units are designed for 4 ohm speakers. Given the same power in the same system, 2 ohm speakers would sound louder. You can always run 2 of the 2 ohm speakers in series and that will create a 4 ohm resistance and balance the sound for the other 4 ohm speakers.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:45 PM   #26
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From what I remember, most head units are designed for 4 ohm speakers. Given the same power in the same system, 2 ohm speakers would sound louder. You can always run 2 of the 2 ohm speakers in series and that will create a 4 ohm resistance and balance the sound for the other 4 ohm speakers.
Not a very good plan. Head units' internal amplifiers aren't meant to support lower impedance loads. Plus you want to keep the stereo imaging separate
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:42 AM   #27
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I must further say though, that I wouldn't run 2ohm speakers and 4ohm speakers at the same time on a HU. I would run all 4ohms, or all 2ohms. I am just not sure how the electronics in the HU, will handle two different ohms on the same circuits. Likewise, I wouldn't run 2ohm front speakers, 4ohm Rear Speakers, and a 1ohm subwoofer, on a 5 channel amp. Some might argue that it is okay, but I wouldn't do it.
The head unit doesn't care what your speakers are. You are talking about impedance from the amp btw. The lower the impedance the more current flow through the speaker which means faster distortion and more heat. The heat will shorten the life of the amp and the speaker. So as you can imagine, there is a happy medium with Ohm. So depending on the speaker design, wattage, size, liquid cooled or not, etc etc will tell what Ohm the speaker runs optimal at.

Now, I have replaced my Infinity with the Polk Audio DB651s. I put the DB651's in the sound bar and the DB651-S in the front. Just for everyone, there is a difference between the 651 and the 651S - S = slim fit, which if you want to use the factory grills you need the S model. In the dash you have to have the S. It's the length of the tweeter post, S model the tweeter is even to the rest of the speaker (Flat across the speaker face).

I cut and crimped the sound bar speakers, merely because I didn't have the adapters but had the adapters in the front. Very simple installation. Drivers side front was tough to get the speaker box in and out. I also had to re-drill the brackets that came with the Polk speakers. It's no big deal, one hole is off by about a 1/4" . Took 2 minutes to mark and drill to fix. I did load the speaker boxes with poly fill. The only reason I did it was because it cost about $4. Not even going to have that argument.

Now the sound difference is much, much better. Those Infinity speakers are crap. You'll know what I'm saying when you get the Polk installed. The Polk have a fuller range of sound, much more crisp and clear. The only way to describe the stock speakers is dull and roaring. The Polk 651s are great replacements for the Jeep, they aren't too big or small (power wise) and with the marine certification they will take the rain and dirt while having your top off.

I am very happy with the upgrade. I run with the top off most of the summer and playing the radio loud on the highway hammered the Infinity speakers. I've got $120-140 in this upgrade, not bad at all once you hear the difference.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:01 AM   #28
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Well, the big problem I m having with all this is that my system specs are some kind of state secret. Why is it so hard to find the details of your jeep system? I am assuming my system is 2ohms, but don't really know for sure. I assume the sub is 2ohms, but don't really know.

Also, when someone says "stock system" i assume they are talking about the base jeep/Chrysler stereo. I don't refer to mine as stock, even tho it came from the factory. I call it the Infinity system, 362w with sub. Are the speakers in my system the same or different than the "stock" or base system? When someone says stock, what do they mean?

Thanks for all your help.
I've seen a wiring schematic of the factory Infinity system (it's on the internet if you search). There's the HU-Amp-Speakers. The amp is under the steering column just behind the lower access panel. The Sound bar speakers are basically turned down (wattage and frequency) by the factory amp. You can't change that so if think you'll get loudness from a new speaker think again. You could by-pass the factory amp. There's tons of write-ups on this if you look around.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:00 PM   #29
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Thanks Thud. That's just what I'm going to do. Did you mess with the tweeters at all?
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:19 PM   #30
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Thanks Thud. That's just what I'm going to do. Did you mess with the tweeters at all?
Not yet but was thinking about it. The other good thing about the Polk Audio speaker is the tweeter can be pointed. In the sound bar I pointed them forward towards the seats. Being that I run all summer with the top off I don't want speakers with cardboard cones so the polyurethane cones in the Polk are perfect. I saw some tweeters for on top of the dash that were called "Jeep Replacement" but wasn't real impressed with them. I've used Polk before for different configurations (in a cigar shop) and they have lasted longer than any other thing being covered in cigar smoke all day which eats up anything. I wouldn't buy anything more expensive than the DB651s unless I was going to add a head unit and amp. Not much point in paying money for a higher wattage speaker if you don't have the power to push it. Don't be fooled by what the manufacturer says the wattage is, you have to do the math using the Ohms/impedance and output. I think i figured out the DB651s are about 65 watt each. I think the box says 180 maximum. Not sure how they came up with that unless it's when it will literally blow apart. Sorry I'm all over the place, I'm throwing out everything I can remember. Another thing, in the sound bar I just have the regular DB651 so the factory speaker grills will not work (tweeter sticks up to far). I used the Polk grills which are fine but if you want the Jeep grills go with the DB651S (slim model). And to modify the mounting bracket I took the factory grill and stuck allen wrenches in the 2 holes that match (to hold it in place) and the just drilled through the 3rd hole. I did this in my hand, it's just plastic, drill zipped right through it. mounted up fine. The DB651 do come with mounting brackets, you just have to modify the 1 hole so no need to buy other brackets unless you want to.

If anyone is interested in learning about Ohms/Wattage etc - Ohms, Amps and Speakers
http://www.activebass.com/a42--Under...p-and-Speakers

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