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Old 07-08-2013, 07:00 PM   #1
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Soundbar internal air volume

Does anyone happen to know the approximate internal air volume of the soundbar? What about the front speaker pods in the dash?

I've done a bit of searching via Google but not finding what I'm looking for. All results are returning information in reference to the sound volume.

thanks,

J

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Old 07-10-2013, 08:57 PM   #2
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Why do you need to know air space. For the majority of speakers that is not an issue.

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Old 07-10-2013, 11:47 PM   #3
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To be honest, I was probably overthinking the situation, but I'll share what got me wondering...

Short answer: I was considering the idea of installing some 4 ohm home audio woofers such as the Dayton Audio DC160-4 6.5. In considering this, I thought it might be a good idea to see if the driver was a good match to the air volume. Or if possibly any of the other drivers at Parts Express were a better match.

Long answer: I have the 130 Media Center with uConnect and a year of Sirius. It doesn't sound too bad when you listen to a CD or Aux inputs. It's not great either. The bass rolls off when the volume gets into the 20's, and the volume isn't very strong even with the windows down. It is completely inadequate with the freedom tops off. I know I want to improve it, but I am not interested in investing a lot to make it awesome. So I've been reading people's threads about what they have done, what has worked, what has not, etc... to come up with a reasonable compromise to improve the quality and get good value from the expense. To be clear, I'm not looking to be cheap, but don't really feel I need high end.

One of the things I've been leaning to is the idea of just replacing the speakers for now, then later adding an amp and small sub. I'm definately going to use components up front, but I'm not entirely sure I want a high quality tweeter from a coaxial just behind my head. So I was thinking of using a decent woofer or midbass type home audio driver that's rated for 4 ohms for the soundbar. I was also considering going with a bridgeable 4 channel amp. I'd drive the fronts with two channels and bridging the back to drive the sub. This would leave the soundbar drivers unamplified and just used as additional fill. Since my preferred music tends to be rock/metal, I figure a good 10" sub would do the trick for me.

Anyways... the internal volume probably doesn't matter at this point since I wouldn't want them to be producing alot of bass and causing vibrations of the enclosure. The real root of the idea was to put a good quality speaker that had a reasonable midrange quality to it, but could add some bass until I select a sub setup.

Thanks for asking. It was good to put my thoughts down and review them.

J
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:04 AM   #4
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sounds good. please let me know how those classics work for you. the only issue i see is not amping them. but you could always add that later. make sure you stuff the bar with poly fill. if they work for you i might pull the kickers out of my bar and put some in it. with the tj bar in a yj it places the speaker directly above your head so the tweeter is a little harsh.
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:51 AM   #5
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I've already done the polyfill, and it did improve the sound quality. It stopped the vibration noises from the plastic cabinet and allowed me to turn up the bass a bit.

Thank you for the feedback about the harshness of the tweeters above your head. That's good information for me. I already have a little tinnitus in my right ear. I know what a good tweeter can do, and I'm not sure I want to subject my ear to more of that.

I agree with your concern about the lack of amplification. I'm not convinced that the 4 channel configuration is the right way to go just yet. Just thinking about options. I don't really want to run multiple amps, so I may just bite the bullet and spend a little more on a quality 5 channel.

I'll definately update you on what I do with the rears, and the results if I go with a 4 ohm home audio woofer/midbass.
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:48 AM   #6
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Not sure the exact volume of the sound bar, but it is one of the worst speaker enclosures you may ever find. I took matters into my own hands a rebuilt mine from the inside.

Removed the soundbar so I could work on it. I took out the factory speakers which are just crappy "Alpine" full range 6 1/2" no range speakers. I also removed the dome
light. I sectioned off each end so the speakers were isolated from the center section and stiffened each pod up by laying in strips of dynamat and fiberglassing right over it. Each side is its own stiff enclosure.

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Then I filled the center section where the dome light is with expandable foam to fill the void and dampen any additional vibrations. This pic is before a trimmed it off and cleaned it up.

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I then stuffed each pod with polyfill. Polyfill is not to dampen vibrations although it does help some, it's to "fool" your speakers into "thinking" your enclosure is larger than it is. If you want an explanation you can google it. The proven/tested formula is 1 - 1 1/2 pounds of polyfill per cubic foot of enclosure. I measured out a few ounces per side with a small scale and made sure they matched. Many people under stuff their boxes.

I kept the factory wiring in place. The speaker wire is a smaller gauge than I used on my front speakers and subwoofers, but these are fill speakers and I wanted to reuse the molex plug. I did seal the wires with clear silicone to prevent air leaks.

I used Focal coax 6 3/4" speakers in the sound bar when I was done. They are sisters of the front Focal components. They are powered by and external amp with 75 watts per channel. I reused the factory grills because I wanted stealth. No, the tweeters are not harsh or distracting. The gain to the rear channels is less than the front channels. But to me, it's nice to have a full range fill when the top is off and I'm driving around. The mid-bass is punchy and the sound bar actually sounds great now.

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Old 07-13-2013, 08:45 AM   #7
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Your best bet would be to get an aftermarket headunit. The stock one is VERY weak.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:29 AM   #8
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Mattk11:

That's a nice project. Sounds like your work paid off in the results. I'm not sure I'd want to go that far with this, but it's good to know it's a option.

I think you made a good point with mentioning that you have the gain reduced on your pod speakers. That would also help with my concern about the proximity to my ears.


wassup8687:

Yes, an aftermarket head unit would be very beneficial. Thank you for the suggestion. I believe I understand the limitations of the factory head unit, and I like it's features. I don't feel it sounds as bad as some people claim, but that could be that I just don't have the ear for it.

Since I have a Garmin GPS, I just don't see the value in spending $500 at this stage to get a head unit with similar features, the required harness, adapters for steering wheel controls, remote usb cabling, sirius satallite tuner, and whatever else I'm forgetting. If I go with a NAV unit, that number could double. I'm just not convinced that this is the right place to start, but I recognize I'll probably get an upgraded head unit with NAV and media features before this project is over.


I'm still reading and exploring options. I've not made any decisions beyond that I know I'm going to do some work to improve what I have. No suggestions are really off the table at this point in time.
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:39 AM   #9
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To me, worrying about the air volume in a Jeep's sound bar for purposes of optimized speaker performance is like worrying about whether the Thunderbird fortified wine in the local skid row liquor store was properly aged or not. Neither will make a difference worth even thinking about. Now if this was for a speaker enclosure for a good listening environment, of course its volume would be a difference... just not where a Jeep's sound bar is concerned.
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
To me, worrying about the air volume in a Jeep's sound bar...
Thanks Jerry. Though I've already stated in my previous responses that I'm past that thought, Mattk11 has shown that the internal volume could be relevant if you put the work into improving the enclosure.

I've since decided that they will best serve me as "fill". Therefore, internal volume is irrelevant for my purpose.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:03 PM   #11
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Beginning to change my plan...

So I went out to listen to some speakers after dinner last night. I listened to every 6.5 coaxial and component at Best Buy using both headunit and amplified power with a flat EQ. I made sure to listen while standing closely in front of the speaker to see how it felt to have one that close to my ears. None of them felt harsh to my ears. Most all of them sounded good. It was surprising to hear how some brands didn't sound as good as I expected, and other lesser brands sounded better than expected.

Playing with the App based radios was pretty cool. Especially the new one by Pioneer. It reminded me of one of my prior setups that I enjoyed quite a bit, and gave me a bug for a new head unit. I've reviewed what I'll lose if i upgrade, and I can live with it if I can retain my year of SiriusXM. I'll post a new thread when I make some decisions and start acting on the upgrades.

Thanks for all the input.
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:41 AM   #12
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I've replaced my speakers in my pods with Polk MOMO 6.5 component speakers. They were what I had when they were in my VW Jetta before I went back to Jeep. I removed the small lights and made them into the tweeter locations. I've been very disappointed in the performance because of the amount of vibration the plastic housing allows and the rattle from anything with a small amount of bass. Granted these are 150RMS rated speakers and I have almost 200 watts running to them (with the matching Polk amp) but the amount of travel the woofer can do causes the top of the pod to bounce. I've poly filled them, I've ported them, and now my next plan is to dynamat the inside of the pod. If that still doesn't work I think my next plan is to down grade to 2-way speakers with less bottom end. I guess my advice is to not try to get your bass out of the pods without extensive modification to remove the vibration.
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:01 PM   #13
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Tiburon,

I think you are right. The soundbar should play the midbass role and either have bass blockers or a hipass filter applied to them at either the headunit or amp.

For those subscribed, I'm giving serious consideration to: the new Pioneer Appradio 3, Alpine ICS-X7HD, or maybe one of the JVC unit's with Mirrorlink. I've not made any decisions yet on the speakers though. When I listened to the Polk DXI650's, they didn't sound significantly better than the Pioneer TS-G1644R. Even more surprising, the JVC CS-V627 sounded as good or better than the Polks at about half the price.
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Old 07-17-2013, 08:37 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Tiburon View Post
I've replaced my speakers in my pods with Polk MOMO 6.5 component speakers. They were what I had when they were in my VW Jetta before I went back to Jeep. I removed the small lights and made them into the tweeter locations. I've been very disappointed in the performance because of the amount of vibration the plastic housing allows and the rattle from anything with a small amount of bass. Granted these are 150RMS rated speakers and I have almost 200 watts running to them (with the matching Polk amp) but the amount of travel the woofer can do causes the top of the pod to bounce. I've poly filled them, I've ported them, and now my next plan is to dynamat the inside of the pod. If that still doesn't work I think my next plan is to down grade to 2-way speakers with less bottom end. I guess my advice is to not try to get your bass out of the pods without extensive modification to remove the vibration.
See my previous post.
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Old 07-23-2013, 01:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VertigoTX View Post
Tiburon,

I think you are right. The soundbar should play the midbass role and either have bass blockers or a hipass filter applied to them at either the headunit or amp.

For those subscribed, I'm giving serious consideration to: the new Pioneer Appradio 3, Alpine ICS-X7HD, or maybe one of the JVC unit's with Mirrorlink. I've not made any decisions yet on the speakers though. When I listened to the Polk DXI650's, they didn't sound significantly better than the Pioneer TS-G1644R. Even more surprising, the JVC CS-V627 sounded as good or better than the Polks at about half the price.
The Polks are marine rated and I'm not sure if the others are. With the element exposure the speakers will see I'd take that into consideration.
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Old 07-23-2013, 02:55 PM   #16
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The Polks are marine rated and I'm not sure if the others are. With the element exposure the speakers will see I'd take that into consideration.
I live in an apartment and may not ever get to take my rear hard top off. I do take the freedom tops off from time to time. For me and my situation, I don't think my speakers will see significantly more moisture than any other previous car/truck I've owned with my frequently rolled down windows.

That being said, I went back and played with the Appradio and speakers some more. This time they were under my control, so I setup the Appradio with a flat EQ. I then played some rock and metal through the various speakers. The Polks sounded much better this time around. I may end up getting them anyways.
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Old 07-23-2013, 08:24 PM   #17
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Let me post this for the hundredth time. Marine speakers are not necessary in a Jeep or even a boat for that matter. Contrary to popular belief they are not 100% water proof, they are water resistant. Any speaker will be fine in even the most off roaded Jeep as long as you chose something that does not have a paper cone. Which is almost any after market speaker. Marine is simply a way for Audio companies to extract an extra 20-40% out of your pocket.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:19 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattk11 View Post
Let me post this for the hundredth time. Marine speakers are not necessary in a Jeep or even a boat for that matter. Contrary to popular belief they are not 100% water proof, they are water resistant. Any speaker will be fine in even the most off roaded Jeep as long as you chose something that does not have a paper cone. Which is almost any after market speaker. Marine is simply a way for Audio companies to extract an extra 20-40% out of your pocket.
Bottom line is buy what sounds good with your budget. That post wasn't helpful. Not everyone has the ability to fiberglass and custom build speaker pods, or the funds to have someone do it for them. I wasn't only referring to their ability to water repel but also the UV exposure that having a convertible would see. I've seen nice after market speakers crumble in 2 or three years due to that. If the top or doors never come off than its not an issue, but i can only speak for me and how I would think when all the blanks aren't filled in.
Matt I'm sure you have talent and knowledge but some of the stuff you posted is over the heads of who was reading.
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:28 PM   #19
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Bottom line is buy what sounds good with your budget. That post wasn't helpful. Not everyone has the ability to fiberglass and custom build speaker pods, or the funds to have someone do it for them. I wasn't only referring to their ability to water repel but also the UV exposure that having a convertible would see. I've seen nice after market speakers crumble in 2 or three years due to that. If the top or doors never come off than its not an issue, but i can only speak for me and how I would think when all the blanks aren't filled in.
Matt I'm sure you have talent and knowledge but some of the stuff you posted is over the heads of who was reading.
Just trying to save the guy a few bucks that he can use elsewhere. No where in my post about marine speakers did I make mention of custom work or upgrading or his budget.

But you definitely put me in my place so I'm sure you feel better.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:27 PM   #20
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I appreciate both of your inputs. I know I have definitely learned quite a few things from this forum and this thread. Thanks for taking your time out to share your thoughts.

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