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Old 10-09-2008, 03:56 AM   #1
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Question Starting A Sound System Upgrade

Hey Guys,

I'm going to be starting an upgrade to my TJ's sound system and I'm looking for some advise and ideas.

I think I've chosen a Head Unit that will suit my needs. I will probably be going with the Pioneer Premier DEH-P600UB pictured below. Just as long as I can turn those terrible background graphics off. I'm pretty sure I can, so I think it's a go. That's the easy part.


Now I have to decide on some Subs. I'm partial to Rockford Fosgate becuase I bought a set of them 10 years ago for my Truck and they are still kicking HARD today. Right now, I'm looking at getting either the Fosgate P2L-212's or the Fosgate P2L-210's pictured below.

With the 12" box I will probably barely clear width, and with the 10" box I'd have no problem.

I guess my question is: Are these speakers any good, and are they worth the money? It's been SO LONG since I've purchased anything like this, I'm kinda out of touch with it all. I'm also open to other brands, but I'm just not familiar with them, like I am with Rockford Fosgate. Any ideas?

I also wanted to know if any of you have ever delt with companies like DigiTechStop Electronics or Cartronixplus? These companies offer a huge savings on all audio equiptment, but are they legit?

I'll also be looking for some Amp suggestions. I just need a good Amp to power those subs. I think the HU can handle the others, but I'm not sure. Once again, I'm partial to Rockford Fosgate becuase I already own one, but open to anything.

As far as the dash speakers and the SoundBar speakers:
The guy I purchased the Jeep from had just put some new Pioneers in the Dash. (I pulled it apart just to make sure) So, I'll have to get a couple good ones to go in the SoundBar as well.

Thanks.

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Old 10-09-2008, 10:25 AM   #2
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go with a headunit with a removable faceplate

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Old 10-09-2008, 11:03 AM   #3
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Hello!

I just installed the clarion DX385USB and it is the coolest radio I have had to date..

Check it: Clarion U.S.A. | DXZ385USB

I purchased it from Crutchfield and they were better than stellar.. The cool thing with this radio is that you still get all of the functionality of a CD/MP3 player. The really cool thing is that you can use your ipod or Mp3 player as well.. I liked that, but I didn't like using my MP3 player because that was just too much stuff to take in and out of the Jeep every time i stopped. So, I took a regular 8gb thumb drive (it will recognize anything which uses USB Mass storage), loaded a ton of music on it and away i went.. I just leave the thumb drive in the radio and remove the faceplate when I exit the vehicle.

IT IS A REALLY COOL Source unit and it comes with WAY More features than what i listed above. Also has 4 pre-outs as well.

I only paid $149 shipped w/ Wiring Harness and Installation kit.. Very Nice!!

I am also thinking about purchasing a hard drive and permanently installing it behind the Dash!!
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:15 PM   #4
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in a jeep you can get away with just one nice sub. i have a audiobahn sub that hits just as hard as a set of 12's. as for what brand i say if you are going with RF you should go with a stage 2 or a stage 3. the stage one's are just as bad as the sony explodes. other good brands to look at are mtx, memphis, audiobahn, jl, boston acoustics, and kicker. find one you like and look it up on ebay, i saved over $300 by getting everything on ebay. when it comes to amps you get what you pay for. the more expensive ones have a better sound than the cheaper ones. if you are stuck on getting a cheap one take a look the profile california series, they seem to have good sound for a low priced amp.
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Old 10-09-2008, 03:33 PM   #5
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I have a Pioneer DEH-4000UB and I love it. The USB is he greatest thing ever!
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:01 PM   #6
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the head unit is good. I believe its removable, and yes you CAN change the graphics. They have others too, there is a high chance you will find something good from what it has.

I have a deh 5900ib and dont regret getting it for a heart beat.
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giancarlo View Post
go with a headunit with a removable faceplate
No Doubt, TJ's are too easy to get into.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberman View Post
I just installed the clarion DX385USB and it is the coolest radio I have had to date..

Check it: Clarion U.S.A. | DXZ385USB
Nice HU! It looks like it does the same as the one that I'm interested in. I too would like to get an HD at some point for extra music capacity.

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I have a Pioneer DEH-4000UB and I love it. The USB is he greatest thing ever!
I hear that! That's the main reason I'm getting a different HU. Plus, the one that is in here is way old. Does the 4000 allow full Sub Control? How do you like the 3 Band Parametric EQ in that vs a 7 Band Graphic?

Quote:
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the head unit is good. I believe its removable, and yes you CAN change the graphics. They have others too, there is a high chance you will find something good from what it has.
I have a deh 5900ib and dont regret getting it for a heart beat.
Great to hear Tripp, thanks. The 5900ib is last years version of the 600UB, right? I bought my Mom the 4900ib last year and she f*ck'n loves it. I think it's nice too.
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:57 PM   #8
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in a jeep you can get away with just one nice sub. i have a audiobahn sub that hits just as hard as a set of 12's. as for what brand i say if you are going with RF you should go with a stage 2 or a stage 3. the stage one's are just as bad as the sony explodes. other good brands to look at are mtx, memphis, audiobahn, jl, boston acoustics, and kicker. find one you like and look it up on ebay, i saved over $300 by getting everything on ebay. when it comes to amps you get what you pay for. the more expensive ones have a better sound than the cheaper ones. if you are stuck on getting a cheap one take a look the profile california series, they seem to have good sound for a low priced amp.
With that being said, how do you think a Basooka Tube would do in there? I've personally never heard one before. An old friend of mine had one in his 280Z and raved about it, but I never heard it. Have you? I highly doubt they're as good as RF, but all that's gonna be coming out of it is bass anyways. I listen to Metal & Rock BTW. Whatcha think about them? They also offer powered Sub Tubes, but only go up to 8". This one is a 12".
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Old 10-09-2008, 06:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKTOOTHGRIN View Post
Great to hear Tripp, thanks. The 5900ib is last years version of the 600UB, right? I bought my Mom the 4900ib last year and she f*ck'n loves it. I think it's nice too.
i believe so, i've had it for over a year and a half and i'm well satisfied. for sound adds it has 2 modes of compressors or 2 modes of expanders (1st mode being slight vs heavy of each.. obvisly you choose one out of the 4.. next it has a fully customizable 7 band eq, it also has bass boost on its own. like a bass boost seperate from the customizable 7 band eq, it has other loudness settings..off, low, med, high... it also has low and high pass filters fully customizable for loudness and frequency for each one, also has reversed speakers options, also has sub outputs that are controllable seperately from the overall volume, also 4 more outputs for front and rear speakers just in case you want an amp for those too (not subs), you can also change the rear speaker signal to be for a bass. Let say you have 2 front speakers and a sub and you want a bit of bass.. instead of getting an amp, the cd player can bridge the 2 rear speaker channels to power the sub up to i think 100 watts rms. i think that wraps it up for the sounds section.

Blacktoothgrin, for loud metal and such music i'd recomend a kicker comp of your choice and budged.

you say "all thats going to be coming out of it is bass" but crappy bass sounds worse than no bass at all.
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:35 PM   #10
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I'm kind of an audio wierdo. I do like the Memphis amps, and considering how cramped the Wrangler is I would look at some of the 5-channel amps.

I'm actually looking at some 5.25" subs with components up front. Not sure how I'm going to pull it off. Look for a good DAC. Burr Brown is a name worth buying. Take some care to match the amp with the speakers. I've always thought the Boston sound was pretty neutral for car audio.

Let us know what you come up with. What sort of music do you listen to?
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
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I hear that! That's the main reason I'm getting a different HU. Plus, the one that is in here is way old. Does the 4000 allow full Sub Control? How do you like the 3 Band Parametric EQ in that vs a 7 Band Graphic?
The EQ works for me. I'm not a total audiophile, but it does give some nice adjustments. The sub control is minimal, on off high and bass boost. I plan on getting some kind of self powered sub so it should be good for that.
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Old 10-09-2008, 10:46 PM   #12
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i believe so, i've had it for over a year and a half and i'm well satisfied. for sound adds it has 2 modes of compressors or 2 modes of expanders (1st mode being slight vs heavy of each.. obvisly you choose one out of the 4.. next it has a fully customizable 7 band eq, it also has bass boost on its own. like a bass boost seperate from the customizable 7 band eq, it has other loudness settings..off, low, med, high... it also has low and high pass filters fully customizable for loudness and frequency for each one, also has reversed speakers options, also has sub outputs that are controllable seperately from the overall volume, also 4 more outputs for front and rear speakers just in case you want an amp for those too (not subs), you can also change the rear speaker signal to be for a bass. Let say you have 2 front speakers and a sub and you want a bit of bass.. instead of getting an amp, the cd player can bridge the 2 rear speaker channels to power the sub up to i think 100 watts rms. i think that wraps it up for the sounds section.

Blacktoothgrin, for loud metal and such music i'd recomend a kicker comp of your choice and budged.

you say "all thats going to be coming out of it is bass" but crappy bass sounds worse than no bass at all.
"crappy bass sounds worse than no bass at all." Point Taken, and well put.
Thanks for all the detailed info Tripp. NOW I KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT IS DEFINATELY THE HU I NEED! I've never looked into Kicker Speakers. So they are better fit for Metal? I will surely look into them. What's your take on the Bazooka Tubes?

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I'm kind of an audio wierdo. I do like the Memphis amps, and considering how cramped the Wrangler is I would look at some of the 5-channel amps.

I'm actually looking at some 5.25" subs with components up front. Not sure how I'm going to pull it off. Look for a good DAC. Burr Brown is a name worth buying. Take some care to match the amp with the speakers. I've always thought the Boston sound was pretty neutral for car audio.

Let us know what you come up with. What sort of music do you listen to?
I mainly listen to Metal & Rock. I can get into a little bit of Rap, but more Rock/Rap. Country=, at least for me anyways. I'll look at Menphis as well, thanks. God, I've been out of this for a long time. What's a DAC? And good luck with your project as well.

As far as matching Amps to Speakers...
I just don't have the tech head for that sort of stuff. What should I keep in mind?

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The EQ works for me. I'm not a total audiophile, but it does give some nice adjustments. The sub control is minimal, on off high and bass boost. I plan on getting some kind of self powered sub so it should be good for that.
Yeah, I was looking at some self powered Bazooka Tubes as well. I think it might be a great space saver, but I have no idea what they sound like. And I haven't heard back from anyone yet either. I'll let you know if I find anything out about them other than from here.

Okay guys, I'm headed out of town again for the weekend. I'll do more searching when I return, and let ya all know what I find. If you have any other ideas, please drop them off here, and I'll check em out when I return. Have a great weekend!
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Old 10-10-2008, 01:24 AM   #13
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I HAVE THAT EXCACT HEAD UNIT. It is awesome. and it does detatch. I also have Polk Speakers and a Kicker L7(Which barely fits). The setup is awesome. It is expensive, but o well.
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Old 10-10-2008, 01:58 AM   #14
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[QUOTE=Triple88a;271208]Blacktoothgrin, for loud metal and such music i'd recomend a kicker comp of your choice and budged.QUOTE]

Trip,
Why is Kicker Comp is a better choice for metal?
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Old 10-10-2008, 07:15 AM   #15
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What's a DAC? And good luck with your project as well.

As far as matching Amps to Speakers...
I just don't have the tech head for that sort of stuff. What should I keep in mind?
DAC is the chip that converts digital to analog. It is probably the most critical part of a CD player. Also look for a strong output, something more than 4 volts. That is a good strong clean signal coming out of the head unit.

Most amps have pumped up numbers, and can produce peak outputs. The often show their weakness in sustained volume situations with complicated music. Memphis amps are overbuilt and test out higher than their numbers. They also have good pace and tend to pull out details even under stress.

Matching speakers is just a matter of choosing the right efficiency. Look at speakers that are rated similar watts to the output channels of your amp. Speakers with lower wattage requirements can be pushed well by lower power amps. Match up the Ohms as well, and keep in mind that the amps rated output is probably fudged by about 20% or so.

Hope that helps. Loving my Wrangler.
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Old 10-10-2008, 09:38 AM   #16
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Thats it!

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With that being said, how do you think a Basooka Tube would do in there? I've personally never heard one before. An old friend of mine had one in his 280Z and raved about it, but I never heard it. Have you? I highly doubt they're as good as RF, but all that's gonna be coming out of it is bass anyways. I listen to Metal & Rock BTW. Whatcha think about them? They also offer powered Sub Tubes, but only go up to 8". This one is a 12".
I am planning on that exact sub.. Probably after the lockers and exhaust system though.
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:39 PM   #17
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depends on how much you wanna spend. i would recommend this. one JL10W7 powered by a 1000watt JL class D monoblock amp. and if you want the best sound for the money go with MB quart components for the speakers. both are pretty expensive, but you wont hear a system for the money that has the sound quality and range of these products. just my .02
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Old 10-10-2008, 03:07 PM   #18
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With that being said, how do you think a Basooka Tube would do in there? I've personally never heard one before. An old friend of mine had one in his 280Z and raved about it, but I never heard it. Have you? I highly doubt they're as good as RF, but all that's gonna be coming out of it is bass anyways. I listen to Metal & Rock BTW. Whatcha think about them? They also offer powered Sub Tubes, but only go up to 8". This one is a 12".

im not a big fan of those powered subs. the only powered sub i would buy is the boss powered sub, my brother had one and it sounded great. if you compare it to an RF sub i think that the high end bazzoka tube has the same bass as a stage one punch, not that great of a sound.
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Old 10-10-2008, 03:13 PM   #19
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depends on how much you wanna spend. i would recommend this. one JL10W7 powered by a 1000watt JL class D monoblock amp. and if you want the best sound for the money go with MB quart components for the speakers. both are pretty expensive, but you wont hear a system for the money that has the sound quality and range of these products. just my .02
sounds like a good setup. the only thing that would stop me is having a system that expensive in a jeep. thats why i ended up going with the infinity perfect components in the rollbar and kappa's in front. the perfects have close to the same sound imo.
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Old 10-10-2008, 03:58 PM   #20
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sounds like a good setup. the only thing that would stop me is having a system that expensive in a jeep. thats why i ended up going with the infinity perfect components in the rollbar and kappa's in front. the perfects have close to the same sound imo.
exact reason why theres kenwoods in my dash and bar, kenwood head unit, and rockford powered sub. had the nice one in my 2001 dodge ram with some MB tweeters and a kicker crossover with a JVC fold out 7" dvd screen (not practical in a vehicle with windows that unzip) but damn was it nice
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Old 10-10-2008, 06:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Trip,
Why is Kicker Comp is a better choice for metal?
Comps are loud . Also they are pretty hard for bass which is exactly what metal is. A buddy of mine has 2 12" comps (the black ones) and on rock, those are hard and loud. They dont bend the quality at all, nor do they make flapping noises.

Now i'm not saying those are the best because there are endless possibilities out there however from what i've heard i think they sound good.
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:47 AM   #22
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the nice kicker subs hit hard and sound good,i went with the audiobahn because it hits like the kickers but sounds great no matter what type of music. they can be fussy but the right amp powering an audiobahn makes a sub sound deeper and louder than 50% of 12's. i also like the amount of excursion they have with the 2" foam surrounds.
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Old 10-14-2008, 11:30 PM   #23
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Well, I'm back, but a bit irritated.

I've talked with some sales reps and they say nothing but the opposite of what to buy. Here is what they all are recomending for metal and rock music:

RF P2L-210 Subs
and a
RF T500-1BD Amp.


They completely disagreed with any Audiobahn and Kicker products all together. I'm not saying that any of you are wrong, (probably quite the opposite) they just didn't like the products. They were trying to push Diamond and JL audio products, (Some of the most expensive of course) but I told them I couldn't afford them. So then they recomended the RF stuff above. Kinda feels like they are just out to get as much of my money as they can.

So obviously I'm stuck. With the HU that I want, plus the subs and amp they recomend, I'm looking at about a grand. I didn't really want to spend that much. I was hoping to get away spending about $600 or so. I'm not to sure what I'm gonna do now. When I was younger I didn't have a problem throwing $2500 into a system. Now days, that bugs me quite a bit.

The only way that I've seen to cut some of the cost is to go through places like CarTronixPlus.com, Digitechstom.com, and DealerCostCarAudio.com. All advertise that the items are Brand New and NOT refurbs, but I just don't know if I can trust them on that. Do any of you have any experience with places like this?
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Old 10-14-2008, 11:38 PM   #24
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I had 2 10" punches stage one.. i didnt like how they sounded when turned up. They plopped. I hope you know how that sounds.. i cant explain it any better.

If you are trying to decide on RF. Go to bestbuy, they should have a corner setup with different subs.. see how their stuff sounds on what you listen to and go from there.

As for money, find what you like, go to ebay and get it from there. My system ended up being about 400-500 for the subs and 200 for the HU. My sub said it was referbished or something.. it was missing the plastic cover for the front but eh i dont care, it works like new so.. only missing the plastic..
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Old 10-15-2008, 04:04 AM   #25
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Yeah, I was in BB a couple days ago. They don't ahve the RF P2L-210 pre loads yet. They just have the P2D-410 mounted in the BB stock type of enclosures. I'd like to hear them in the RF custom enclosure that was made for them. I'm sure there is a difference. IF I go with RF, I would prefer to have the 2 10" stage 2's in their native box. As for now, BB is still waiting to get them in. When they arrive, they will cost $350. (Same as Crutchfield)
One of those off the wall websites that I posted (DigitechStp.com) is offering them @ $266 including shipping. I'd like to pick them up there, but don't know if I can trust them not to be f*cked up in some manner. Also, they are not a licenced dealer of RF, so the manufaturers warranty wouldn't be for sh*t. I'm just not to sure I'd like to roll the dice with $266, just to save $100 ya know?

I thought about going with ebay as well, but you take the same chance with those guys as well. I've only bought about 20 items on Ebay in my life. Some of them, I got GREAT deals on, and had no problems at all. However, 4 different times, someone either jacked me, or TRIED to jack me. And it was a HUGE pain in the butt trying to solve those problems. If you do the math, the chances of getting screwed, (at least in my dealings) is way too high.

I don't know. I'll just have to see how it goes I guess. I'll trust my piers suggestions over a salesman's any day of the week. He's the only one trying to get into my pocket.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:05 PM   #26
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to save room i recommend getting a single powerful sub, thats what it did. if you get a nice 12" stage 3 with a decent amp you will be satisfied with the sound and power. with my single 10" audiobahn i can set off car alarms in a parking garage.

when it comes to ebay and getting any thing over $100 make sure you stick with an ebay store, someone who has 4000 positive feedback, those people are 95% of the time very reliable and will be more than happy to make sure that you are satisfied with the price and quality of there product.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:12 PM   #27
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2x ^.. people who have 3-4k in good feedback are good sellers. Most of the negative feedback is because some people are either ignorant to contact the person if the product is bad or they are just impatient and will not wait a day after they send a msg..

Most common are the "I got my product friday.. there appears to be damage on it so i send you a msg friday night. I did not get any response saturday so sunday mourning i left a negative comment."
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:36 AM   #28
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well i dont have subs just polk audio sound bar and fronts im bout to get 10 and if u dont want to drop money on a lock box safest thing dont bump ne wear ur not used to going like me i go to fort worth with that 10 and i bump gone in 10 sec no prob but wat they dont hear they dont see they wont steal lol
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:56 AM   #29
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Dont listen to it loud when close to home
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Old 10-24-2008, 04:42 AM   #30
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Hey Guys,

Unfortunately I think I'm going to have to place this upgrade on hold for the time being. After talking with all of you and other locals here in town, I've decided that saving a few hundred extra dollars and cutting corners (like I was trying to do) may not be the best route to take. If I'm unsatified with it, I know I'll just end up spending a bunch more to do it right. As for now, I just don't have the funds to really do it right. However, I heard on the news last night that we all might be getting another stimulas check in the mail. That wouldn't make that much difference though. The honey always has it spent before it comes.

Like I said before, when I was a kid I didn't mind dumping an ass load of cash into a sound system for my vehicle, but I don't spend the kind of time in my vehicles like I used to either. Or maybe I'm just gett'n to be a tight-wad.

We'll just have to see how it all plays out. Maybe that fat b*stard in the red suit will help me out with it in a couple of months.........

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