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Old 08-10-2012, 12:31 PM   #1
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Trying to find detailed info on stock JK infinity (730n) system...watts/channel etc..

I'm doing a slow "as I can afford to" upgrade to the system in my JK and I'm trying to find out what wattage is currently running to each speaker...can't seem to find that info anywhere.

I know the total wattage (368), however that doesn't tell me whats going to each soundbar speaker or whats going to the sub etc.

I would prefer to do the upgrade in two steps:

1) Replace all the speakers (all ordered, arriving today; JL C2-650's)
2) Add the amp (JL XD700/5)

The problem I'm having is if I replace the sub now with a good sub (JL 8w3) I don't want to kill the sub by underpowering it before being able to get the amp to properly power it.

Of course I could just sit on the sub until I can do the amp, but for me, that would be like asking a crack addict not to take a hit of the lit crack pipe in their hand...I just don't think I could sit on it...I'd HAVE TO install it, would drive me nutts.

Thanks in advance!

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Old 08-10-2012, 12:48 PM   #2
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I doubt that the HU is putting out anything close to 20 watts - nevermind the 368. I think that is the number for the mini amp behind the dash. Someone on here did a test on the 130 and it was like 4 watts per channel to the sound bar. It simply does not put out much power.

That said are you using C2-650 components up front and 650 coaxials for the sound bar? That is what I did. I installed the same amp too.

The issue is you wont be able to add the speakers without cutting off the factory connects. You will have to use the existing wiring from the 730 and just cut off the speaker end plugs and wire in to your new speakers using the JL supplied ends. Not too big of a deal. I did all new wiring from the HU back to avoid cutting anything.

The bigger deal is that you will need a LOC or other device to obtain the speaker signal and convert it to RCA cables to use for the amp. That adds complexity and added wiring. Unless the 730 has RCA outs? Not sure. If the 730 doesn't have RCA outs, then you need to convert the speaker out to RCA. Keep in mind the soundbar signal from the HU is contoured/lowered compared to the fronts.

Do not add the JL W3 until you have the amp installed. Look at the minimum power input on the W3 and I bet that the 730/factory amp does not supply enough to meet that minimum.

Your speaker/amp/sub build list looks vaguely similar to something I have seen before....Hmmmm.....

2012 HU/Speaker/Amp Build Log


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Old 08-10-2012, 01:03 PM   #3
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I doubt that the HU is putting out anything close to 20 watts - nevermind the 368. I think that is the number for the mini amp behind the dash. Someone on here did a test on the 130 and it was like 4 watts per channel to the sound bar. It simply does not put out much power.

That said are you using C2-650 components up front and 650 coaxials for the sound bar? That is what I did. I installed the same amp too.

The issue is you wont be able to add the speakers without cutting off the factory connects. You will have to use the existing wiring from the 730 and just cut off the speaker end plugs and wire in to your new speakers using the JL supplied ends. Not too big of a deal. I did all new wiring from the HU back to avoid cutting anything.

The bigger deal is that you will need a LOC or other device to obtain the speaker signal and convert it to RCA cables to use for the amp. That adds complexity and added wiring. Unless the 730 has RCA outs? Not sure. If the 730 doesn't have RCA outs, then you need to convert the speaker out to RCA. Keep in mind the soundbar signal from the HU is contoured/lowered compared to the fronts.

Do not add the JL W3 until you have the amp installed. Look at the minimum power input on the W3 and I bet that the 730/factory amp does not supply enough to meet that minimum.

Your speaker/amp/sub build list looks vaguely similar to something I have seen before....Hmmmm.....

2012 HU/Speaker/Amp Build Log

Thanks for the quick response!

For the amp install I'm going to have that done professionally...Replacing speakers; no problem, but wiring an amp, not sure I would get it right myself so I'll just fork over the cash to ensure that part is done right.

From what I understand the 730n does have the pre-outs needed for an amp...I don't want to change the head unit though for a few reasons mainly because during the summer I have the top down all the time and frequently the doors off too...A stock system isn't real tempting for a thief when the jeep is just sitting in a parking lot like that; but an aftermarket system? Now THAT is tempting for them...plus, it's a few hundred dollars minimum to get the same functionality of the 730n...I know it won't sound as good as it could, but should still be a hell of a lot better than stock.

Yes, I have the C2-650X and C2-650 (one is coax, thinking the x (off hand)).

Anyway...yea, you're build seems pretty similar

I take it my thinking was correct though, that the C2-650's just drop right in to the stock enclosures? That's the reason I'll also be adding the 8W3; I don't want ANY obvious signs of aftermarket upgrades...I've had systems ripped off in the past, want to avoid that and I don't need it to "bump" just want it to sound good and have some punch to it.

EDIT: Curious, I was looking at your install log (we really are doing the same system! Right down to the 8W3!)...Were you able to use the stock sub cover after the spacer/sub install?
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:19 PM   #4
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Awesome. The 730 has pre-outs which saves you a lot of headaches. I was unaware/unsure if it did.

Yep the 650x work perfectly. Actually all 6 speakers drop right in with little to no mods. Tweets are a direct fit with zero mods. The other 4 just new screw holes.

The speaker install like mentioned will be easy. Cut, butt and line up the new stuff.

The W3 is exactly why I chose it - to drop into the factory location. You will need a ring spacer as the depth is about an inch longer than the Crapfinity. The plastic cover can't be re-used so you may want to look into adding a JL grill that works with the W3. I haven't yet and really need to get one. Just for protection for things in the trunk.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:29 PM   #5
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I also noticed the JL cross overs in your build post...did those come with the 650's? Just "plug em in"? Forgive my ignorance on this; I know enough to be dangerous only
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:08 AM   #6
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Yep the C2-650 component set comes with the passive cross overs. Really simple to install. I put mine up front instead of back near the amp because I did not feel like running 4 sets of wires to the front speakers. Ran a pair to the cross overs and then much shorter lines to each speaker. Plus I set them once and never touch them. Once you get the +/- db setting, you don't really need to fiddle with them.
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:26 PM   #7
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Lynskey, I bit the bullet...jeeps in the shop right now getting everything done...just started looking at my time as X dollars (and taking three times as long as someone that really knows what they're doing) and what install costs are...came out, taking it to a shop to get done is better. They are doing everything, the c2-650's up front, checking and sealing the c2-650x's I installed, the 8w3 and the XD 700/5 and dynamatting everything.

I know that 8w3 won't "hit hard" but hoping it will make the previous infinicrap sub sound like it wasn't even there at all.

Can't wait to hear it!
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:30 AM   #8
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Sounds good. It took me a weekend to do 90% of the install, but I zip tied everything and went very slow and methodical as I only do things once!

You will notice a HUGE difference in the sub. It will take you a bit of playing around to get the settings just right, but that is the fun part. Set up the fronts by themselves, then the rear by themselves as far as the amp settings. Then blend the fronts/rears for your particular sound fill for the rears. Then set up the bass.

In my set-up I have a bit more % on the fronts than the rears. I have the same gain/input from the amp but on the HU I blended in just slightly less on the rears.

Plus 90% of my bass is only from the sub. I set up the amp filters to remove almost all bass from the soundbar and only very little mids for the fronts. That way little to no bass comes from the 4 woofers and all of it is from the sub. I am still adjusting to this day. Small tweaks here and there.

Once the install is done post up some pics!
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:42 PM   #9
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When I got it back I realized the Car Toys guys are either completely deaf or just paid to get the component in and that's it...ZERO adjusting for sound quality...got it out the other day and my ears are still ringing from first listenting to it.

I adjusted the amp manually myself, turned everything down to zero, then adjusted from there. The rears ended up being set louder then the front due to the soundbar not being sealed (so getting no mid-base at all out of them as the woofer in them doesn't have anything to push against to flex). The subwoofer ended up being set REALLY low...I didn't want overwhelming "Bumping" bass, just good clear/clean bass when needed.

Its back in there now as I type though to get the sub box fiberglassed and the upper speakers completely sealed in the sound bar so hopefully they will sound as they should once done (then I'll of course have to re-adjust again).

Hopefully they will do it "right" as this was my first experience with them doing a system and I'm no expert, but they did a pretty crappy job...some of the "crap" they did is being fixed today too.

When I lived in So Cal there was a shop near me that was just about the national authority on kick ass installs...in just about every audiophile magazine they had a spread on their latest big install...really good shop. Anyway, I'm used to that quality of install, when you get it out it sounds absolutely 100% perfect; the best those components you chose could ever sound in the car you installed them in - period (of course, their typical install was thousands in just labor, but the end result was worth it!).

Car Toys needless to say left a bit to be desired there.

Wish I could find a shop as good as the so cal shop here. I've got a buddy that lives about 150 miles away though, hes going to be coming down in a few weeks for a visit and he used to work at that So Cal shop so he'll be applying some tweaks when he's here
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:42 PM   #10
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Where did they end up placing the amp? Are the speakers centered in the pods and looking good? They didnt adjust anything? Wow. Well honestly I would tune it myself anyway.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:29 PM   #11
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Where did they end up placing the amp? Are the speakers centered in the pods and looking good? They didnt adjust anything? Wow. Well honestly I would tune it myself anyway.
Yea, in my opinion if you're in the NW and you want to have a system done, go ANYWHERE but Car Toys...just bad...really really bad...My mother could have done a better job.


Problems:
  1. The adjustments they made to the amp initially made it so horrible you couldn't turn it up at all; when THEY did when they were showing me "hey, doesn't it sound awesome" it made my ears ring for two days from the highs; and my response to their question, was...wait for it..."No, actually, it sounds like shit, but I'll tune it myself when I get home".
  2. Didn't even BOTHER trying to seal the rear sound bar speakers...zero effort.
  3. Completely missed the amp had a bad channel, apparently they don't check each speaker individually after an install? But, they replaced the amp quick enough.
  4. When they fiberglassed the sub box the guy that put it back in didn't bother raising the sub level at all (was at lowest possible input sensor) to actually LISTEN to see if the sub was even on...I thought it wasn't, put my ear up to it and only then realized it was on, I just needed to level it (they offered to, I said "uhh, no, that's ok".
  5. Snuck in a $150 warranty I didn't want then tried to say if they remove it they will also have to remove all my "discounts" and it would be the same cost without the warranty (at that point the conversations got ugly and when quality of the install came up; I couldn't help myself..."Your installers are deaf first of all!").
Now that I HAVE TUNED IT, it sounds pretty good.

The fiberglassing of the sub box is done now, definetely much tighter/cleaner sound BUT did lose some overall bass (which I'm fine with, I prefer quality over boom anyway).

Lynskey, you mentioned pics, here they are (not real happy about the amp under the seat, will need to do something to hide it for doors off, but after the "tuning snafu" I'm glad they weren't able to fit it in the dash as they were originally going to do!):
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:56 PM   #12
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Wow sorry to hear they did such a crappy job. So what exactly did they fiberglass? All they needed to do was add a ring spacer and use some butyl rope or something similar to "seal" in the sub. I don't get why they glassed anything?

So the amp had a bad channel and they did not check it when they installed? Also did they affix the amp in any way or just plop it under the seat? At a minimum they should have raised it slightly and used some mounting brackets. Maybe they did and it just does not show up in the pics?

I like the sub protector grill. I need to pick one up and install it Well good luck with the system!
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:17 PM   #13
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Well the box has a bunch of seams in it and though glassing it may have been a bit of overkill I'm glad it was done, it's REALLY completely freakin' sealed now.

As for the amp...Get this (forgot to mention it in the problems section above)...They screwed it into (wait for it...)

...The CARPET

That's right...the CARPET. When I showed it to them I said "gimme some good cutters and I'll have it out of there in about 4 seconds"...

It's now screwed down into metal (which of course they also didn't bother cutting the ends of the screws like the should have and I highly doubt they checked under the jeep before doing it to ensure they wouldn't go through a brake line or something...idiots.

Anyway, Car Toys idiots aside, the system sounds really really good...quite happy with it!

And by the way - I SWEAR i picked all my components before I even knew of your build...just tells me great minds think alike
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:37 PM   #14
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How did you have the amp hooked up from the 730N HU?

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