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Old 06-11-2014, 01:20 AM   #301
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I would rate Pontiac/Heartbreak/Onyx harder than gold mtn and horse thief. Horse thief is a fire road and gold mtn has one semi challenging obstacle in the beginning. Jmo.
They are all black diamond but IMO Pontiac is harder than gold mnt/horsethief too ... Once you take that turnoff and start heading up the hill there are some spots that a stock jeep could run into trouble ... It's doable sure but people need to know what they are getting into beforehand ... Got to remember that moderate and difficult are subjective ... For a beginner Pontiac is hard ... Last year I lead up group up there and had 3 turn around ... So It's better to err on the side if caution ... If you say it's difficult and easier to someone no harm ... If you say it's moderate and it's beyond someone's comfort zone then you can't really blame them for being upset and you'll be sending someone back the way they came which is never a good day ... I'd say it's more risk management and expectation management

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Old 06-11-2014, 01:23 AM   #302
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They are all black diamond but IMO Pontiac is harder than gold mnt/horsethief too ... Once you take that turnoff and start heading up the hill there are some spots that a stock jeep could run into trouble ... It's doable sure but people need to know what they are getting into beforehand ... Got to remember that moderate and difficult are subjective ... For a beginner Pontiac is hard ... Last year I lead up group up there and had 3 turn around ... So It's better to err on the side if caution ... If you say it's difficult and easier to someone no harm ... If you say it's moderate and it's beyond someone's comfort zone then you can't really blame them for being upset and you'll be sending someone back the way they came which is never a good day ... I'd say it's more risk management and expectation management
Exactly

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Old 06-11-2014, 01:42 AM   #303
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Maybe a recommendation of what's needed...

.... being a stock jeep (rubicon vs sport also) / tire size need /what size lift / locker or no locker / etc.. Instead of saying ( easy , moderate , difficult...)

it sounds like people know the trails... What's needed to get by? What do you guys recommend to get by?

Or, don't mind me.... I'm Just reading along.
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:22 PM   #304
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No, the 200' section of dishpan is more difficult.
So is the first Rock section just up past the bridge, we are also doing Holcomb and that accounts for 1 very long rock garden and a second one where the water goes across the trail. It also has 2 or 3 short but decent obstacles.

I know everybody (but one) on the Dishpan Run and they have all done the trail so we just have to make sure that anybody new on the other trails are on board. You guys are right that the books overrate the trails (as they should) and Stan I agree with your assessment of GM vs Heartbreak / Pontiac. Maybe we can add a trail description and some Jeep requirements to the first page so others can see what they need to be prepared for. All the trails listed are fun and anyone with questions can feel free to PM any of us if needed!
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:36 PM   #305
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So is the first Rock section just up past the bridge, we are also doing Holcomb and that accounts for 1 very long rock garden and a second one where the water goes across the trail. It also has 2 or 3 short but decent obstacles.

I know everybody (but one) on the Dishpan Run and they have all done the trail so we just have to make sure that anybody new on the other trails are on board. You guys are right that the books overrate the trails (as they should) and Stan I agree with your assessment of GM vs Heartbreak / Pontiac. Maybe we can add a trail description and some Jeep requirements to the first page so others can see what they need to be prepared for. All the trails listed are fun and anyone with questions can feel free to PM any of us if needed!
That's all I'm saying -- The difficulty should be more accurate. Hearbreak/Pontiac does not compare to Dishpan/Holcomb in any way. I just don't think someone should feel too intimidated to do the JPI run if they've never done that area and sign up for Gold Mtn if they've done it a dozen times, etc.

If we want to say:

My Run: Easy - Moderate
JPI: Moderate
Bill: Difficult

Not trying to beat a dead horse, just trying to get the descriptions accurate.
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:01 PM   #306
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So is anyone leading a John Bull/little John Bull run ?
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:05 PM   #307
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So is anyone leading a John Bull/little John Bull run ?
Doug is leading a JB run on Friday afternoon around 1:00. Don't know if we're doing Little JB though.
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:09 PM   #308
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Oh hey right on. ..I was just wondering if it was going to be run on Saturday.
But that's cool thanks.
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:14 PM   #309
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Oh hey right on. ..I was just wondering if it was going to be run on Saturday.
But that's cool thanks.
You coming up for the day Steve?
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:22 PM   #310
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So is the first Rock section just up past the bridge, we are also doing Holcomb and that accounts for 1 very long rock garden and a second one where the water goes across the trail. It also has 2 or 3 short but decent obstacles.

I know everybody (but one) on the Dishpan Run and they have all done the trail so we just have to make sure that anybody new on the other trails are on board. You guys are right that the books overrate the trails (as they should) and Stan I agree with your assessment of GM vs Heartbreak / Pontiac. Maybe we can add a trail description and some Jeep requirements to the first page so others can see what they need to be prepared for. All the trails listed are fun and anyone with questions can feel free to PM any of us if needed!
Not all of us

Holcomb yes.
Dishpan no.
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:21 PM   #311
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Not all of us

Holcomb yes.
Dishpan no.
I don't think the Ross Racing group will have any troubles...
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:43 PM   #312
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Not all of us

Holcomb yes.
Dishpan no.
X 2. my Jeep is a virgin to both of these trails yea!!!

Jeff
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:51 PM   #313
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Hey Stan will your run consist of some hard lines? My dad just bought a jeep thats on 40s and he wants to test its capabilities.
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:04 PM   #314
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:30 PM   #315
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The map looks awesome Dakota. I like how you included the meet rules on top. Thank you for the hard work.

Jeff
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:37 PM   #316
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X 2. my Jeep is a virgin to both of these trails yea!!!

Jeff
You're tie rod did part of Holcomb...
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:55 PM   #317
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You're tie rod did part of Holcomb...
Close, it was the drag link. Tie rod upgrade is in the plans before the Meet n Greet also.

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Old 06-11-2014, 09:00 PM   #318
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Hey Stan will your run consist of some hard lines? My dad just bought a jeep thats on 40s and he wants to test its capabilities.
There's a couple of good lines for 40s. You'll have fun
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:03 PM   #319
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Bottom line people: we will not leave anyone behind, and will be happy to spot anyone that needs help. It will be a fun, memorable day.
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:21 PM   #320
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There's a couple of good lines for 40s. You'll have fun
Sweet can't wait!
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:27 PM   #321
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You coming up for the day Steve?
I was thinking that a run on John Bull in both directions would be fun but as it turns out the family and I will still be on vacation in Hawaii that weekend Bill. So It's another no go from us again this year. You guys have fun.
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:10 PM   #322
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Hey Stan will your run consist of some hard lines? My dad just bought a jeep thats on 40s and he wants to test its capabilities.
He'd probably like the JB run on Friday afternoon if you guys can make it.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:24 AM   #323
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He'd probably like the JB run on Friday afternoon if you guys can make it.
I don't think we will be able to make friday afternoon. In the afternoon is when we plan on leaving for Big bear.
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Old 06-15-2014, 11:34 AM   #324
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Please add me to the moderate run on Saturday.

thx
John
Got you updated.

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No problem Jeff sounds like fun!

Also: Regarding the run descriptions at the beginning of the thread: you have the JPI run listed as difficult which is incorrect. Pontiac and Heartbreak would be considered easy (not difficult as listed). My run is correct at moderate.

I'm thinking Gold Mountain, Jacoby, Horsethief. I've never done Horsethief though. So if anyone has done it, please chime in and let me know what you thought of it difficulty wise. I'll try to run it soon to check it out.
OK, so lets get some requirements for the planned runs.

Rick, if you plan to run a beginner/intermediate, then that should include a stock rig with no upgrades, correct? Or do you want atendees to have a minimum tire size or other upgrades?

Stan, do you want a tire size requirement or locker, sliders etc?

Please feel free to give me some feedback on this matter and I will update accordingly.

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Old 06-16-2014, 02:48 PM   #325
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Got you updated.



OK, so lets get some requirements for the planned runs.

Rick, if you plan to run a beginner/intermediate, then that should include a stock rig with no upgrades, correct? Or do you want atendees to have a minimum tire size or other upgrades?

Stan, do you want a tire size requirement or locker, sliders etc?

Please feel free to give me some feedback on this matter and I will update accordingly.

Jeff

A stocker with rails should be good for my run. So I would say rails are not required, but highly suggested. If someone is completely stock, they may have some difficulty. As long as they don't mind a few scratches or a tug, they should be fine. Most of the Gold Mtn obstacles shouldn't be a problem and there are bypasses for some.

I haven't run Horsethief, but others have said it's not very difficult. I will run it before the event and update if necessary.
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:10 PM   #326
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My wife and I may jump in on this weekend. I should know by the end of the week. Looks like plenty of camping spots left. How many Jeeps will be allowed on the Beg/moderate run before it's capped so I can keep an eye on it.
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:12 PM   #327
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My wife and I may jump in on this weekend. I should know by the end of the week. Looks like plenty of camping spots left. How many Jeeps will be allowed on the Beg/moderate run before it's capped so I can keep an eye on it.
I'm thinking 15 - 20 should be ok.

Just say you're in now to hold your spot. You can always cancel later.
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:06 PM   #328
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Don't forget everyone- there is an entire section at Hannah that is first-come first-served (only). So if the main section gets booked up there are another 18 sites that you can't reserve but will probably be open. Last year 90% of that section was available- hardly a soul back there and some nice spots.
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:17 PM   #329
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Ok I'm in. My social event planner already said she'd like to go so we should be good. If not I'll let you know.
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:16 PM   #330
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A stocker with rails should be good for my run. So I would say rails are not required, but highly suggested. If someone is completely stock, they may have some difficulty. As long as they don't mind a few scratches or a tug, they should be fine. Most of the Gold Mtn obstacles shouldn't be a problem and there are bypasses for some.

I haven't run Horsethief, but others have said it's not very difficult. I will run it before the event and update if necessary.
Got the info updated with the slider recommendation

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Ok I'm in. My social event planner already said she'd like to go so we should be good. If not I'll let you know.
Consider yourself added.

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