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Old 07-28-2014, 04:55 PM   #1
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CB's range in Big Bear

I have one of those Midland 75-822 handheld CB's with the car adaptor. I also have a magnet mount with a 58" antenna. I am going to use the Midland this weekend in Big Bear and was wondering if anyone knows the approximate range of the Midland in handheld form, in Big Bear, with just the rubber antenna. Is the handheld powerful enough to talk with the people I will be with on the trails or would I need to run it with the external antenna?

With my stock Jeep there isn't a lot of options for mounting the magnet. If I need it I am going to rest the magnetic base on top of my spare tire and zip tie it to the third break light assembly. I know is pretty flimsy but its the best I can think of. Unless someone has a better idea.

As always thanks in advance.

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Old 07-28-2014, 10:09 PM   #2
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It'll probably be ok with the antenna that's on the handheld. If you're worried about it, place the mag mount on your front fender, looks funny but works fine.

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Old 07-28-2014, 10:29 PM   #3
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Rubber duck antennas are barely adequate in flat unobstructed terrain, let alone mountainous areas like Big Bear. I'd use the big antenna.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:42 PM   #4
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We are gravitating towards ham radios now...cb is good but really limited...
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:58 PM   #5
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I have a rugged race radio in the Heep, works awesome!!

Depending on the group im with I'm the only one without a CB... BUT I do always carry a couple of these lil boogers.

I think these lil handheld hams go further than a full size cb.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:59 PM   #6
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Been a ham with a general class license for many years yet I barely use the ham (2 meter) radio in my Jeep offroad when compared to the CB. The CB:ham radio usage ratio in my Jeep is probably100:1. To me CBs are just better at typical offroad uses.

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Old 07-28-2014, 11:02 PM   #7
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Been a ham with a general class license for many years yet I barely use the ham (2 meter) radio in my Jeep offroad when compared to the CB. The CB:ham radio usage ratio in my Jeep is probably100:1. To me CBs are just better at typical offroad uses.

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Only cause every one has a cb and there cheaper... These days the cost of ham radios has dropped so much don't be surprised if you start using it more
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:13 PM   #8
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The biggest problem with using a VHF 2m radio in difficult mountainous terrain like Big Bear is you have to program it for repeaters, often several repeaters, to be able to communicate. That's not an issue where you live in Long Beach or LA where the terrain is flat (aside from Signal Hill) but it's a big issue in Big Bear. I have to use 3-4 different repeaters depending on where I am to communicate with my ham radio while offroading in Big Bear. I'll stick with the CB up there for my primary offroad communications needs.
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:18 AM   #9
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I have a rugged race radio in the Heep, works awesome!!

Depending on the group im with I'm the only one without a CB... BUT I do always carry a couple of these lil boogers.

I think these lil handheld hams go further than a full size cb.
For the price you can't beat em.
Amazon.com : BaoFeng UV-5RE Plus(UV-5R Plus) Dual-Band 136-174/400-480 MHz FM Ham Two-way Radio, Improved Stronger Case, More Rich and Enhanced Features (2013 Enhanced Version) : Frs Two Way Radios : Electronics
Lol that's the one I got....it picks up the race radio channels as well...
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:27 AM   #10
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We like CB because we are only less than 1/2 mile apart when wheeling in groups.
If the group is strung out more than that, it is too loose. I admit, getting back to the base camp with a CB, is way more sketchy, and perhaps using the "Ham" would be better choice, but for talking between Jeeps and chatter, CB is more accessible for the masses as well. ( Sure wish I could blank out all those clowns with the 200 watt transmitters, and a load of marbles in their mouth when they talk.) FRS is also a nice choice if everyone has one though.
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:01 PM   #11
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The biggest problem with using a VHF 2m radio in difficult mountainous terrain like Big Bear is you have to program it for repeaters, often several repeaters, to be able to communicate. That's not an issue where you live in Long Beach or LA where the terrain is flat (aside from Signal Hill) but it's a big issue in Big Bear. I have to use 3-4 different repeaters depending on where I am to communicate with my ham radio while offroading in Big Bear. I'll stick with the CB up there for my primary offroad communications needs.
Repeaters are not required for short distances.. Use simplex instead .. Works great for a line of vehicles with a greater range than cb.. Even in big bear type areas ... 2 m and 50 watts is great !!
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:35 PM   #12
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You will absolutely want the external antenna. I had the same set up until recently and had issues hearing others even with the external antenna unless we were in close proximity.
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:23 PM   #13
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Repeaters are not required for short distances.. Use simplex instead .. Works great for a line of vehicles with a greater range than cb.. Even in big bear type areas ... 2 m and 50 watts is great !!
I was gonna say... I'm not trying to "phone home" man! But where you might get 1/2-1mi range thru the woods with a CB you could probably do 5-10 on a 50w.

When my group of peoples did Death Valley tour at the beginning of the year there were times where we were 10+ mi away from the leader and all coms were crystal clear.

Death Valley + no wind + 9 off road vehicles flying down dirt roads makes for some really reallllyyy long lead times between vehicles!
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Old 07-29-2014, 08:55 PM   #14
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I was gonna say... I'm not trying to "phone home" man! But where you might get 1/2-1mi range thru the woods with a CB you could probably do 5-10 on a 50w.

When my group of peoples did Death Valley tour at the beginning of the year there were times where we were 10+ mi away from the leader and all coms were crystal clear.

Death Valley + no wind + 9 off road vehicles flying down dirt roads makes for some really reallllyyy long lead times between vehicles!
You can easily get that range in flat areas running simplex. What some don't realize is that Big Bear is not flat and thus the 2m radio's line-of-sight characteristic doesn't work well when you're surrounded by mountains. Been a ham since the 60's and did both military and commercial radio communications for years so this isn't exactly a subject I'm unfamiliar with.

The OP is talking about Big Bear, I'm trying to keep my advice focused strictly on that area which is full of mountains and obstructions to line-of-site communications... not where it's flat and simplex works well.

Not even my Yaesu FT2900R's 75 watts and 5/8 antenna can get around the 2m line-of-sight restriction.
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Old 07-30-2014, 12:16 PM   #15
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I am a HAM as well... and would prefer using my FT60r or Wouxon over any CB. The options you have with a UHF/VHF radio and distance you can cover are far better than that of a CB. Just my opinion... I will be taking both my radios to the BIG BEAR meet this weekend. Just need to figure out what FREQ everyone will be on.

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Old 07-30-2014, 02:29 PM   #16
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Jerry is right about, CB radios are preferable in the mountains over 2m/70cm HAMs. The radios waves behave entirely different in the HF bands than in the VHF/UHF bands. CBs HF frequencies have longer wavelengths that can travel farther distances and are able to diffract (bend) through the mountains. VHF and UHF wavelengths travel shorter distances and are completely dependent on line of sight, they cannot diffract as easily as HF wavelengths. Yes, HAM radios transmit farther but that is only because they have a 50W transmitter versus the 4W/5W transmitter that the FCC limits CBs to without a license. That extra power does no good in an area with poor line of sight, as it cannot change the physical characteristics of the wavelengths.
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Old 07-30-2014, 07:49 PM   #17
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Jerry is right about, CB radios are preferable in the mountains over 2m/70cm HAMs. The radios waves behave entirely different in the HF bands than in the VHF/UHF bands. CBs HF frequencies have longer wavelengths that can travel farther distances and are able to diffract (bend) through the mountains. VHF and UHF wavelengths travel shorter distances and are completely dependent on line of sight, they cannot diffract as easily as HF wavelengths. Yes, HAM radios transmit farther but that is only because they have a 50W transmitter versus the 4W/5W transmitter that the FCC limits CBs to without a license. That extra power does no good in an area with poor line of sight, as it cannot change the physical characteristics of the wavelengths.
Very true. I am more than surprised a few hams in this thread aren't getting that. Actually I guess it doesn't surprise me because the Technician class license is so easy to get and many simply memorize the answers without really understanding the basics like how HF vs. VHF/UHF signals propagate.
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:26 PM   #18
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Very true. I am more than surprised a few hams in this thread aren't getting that. Actually I guess it doesn't surprise me because the Technician class license is so easy to get and many simply memorize the answers without really understanding the basics like how HF vs. VHF/UHF signals propagate.
Although I understand the characteristics of wavelength from being a ham for 20 years, my 2m still outperforms my CB in Big Bear by far. I was on Holcomb Creek while my Dad was on 3N97 and 3N16 junction and we were still able to communicate via 2m and couldn't hear anything on the CB. My CB is tuned and has a 1.2:1 match so that eliminates a bad CB. I'd take my 2M any day over the CB, even in Big Bear.
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Old 07-31-2014, 01:00 AM   #19
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I have a rugged race radio in the Heep, works awesome!!

Depending on the group im with I'm the only one without a CB... BUT I do always carry a couple of these lil boogers.

I think these lil handheld hams go further than a full size cb.
For the price you can't beat em.
Amazon.com : BaoFeng UV-5RE Plus(UV-5R Plus) Dual-Band 136-174/400-480 MHz FM Ham Two-way Radio, Improved Stronger Case, More Rich and Enhanced Features (2013 Enhanced Version) : Frs Two Way Radios : Electronics
How difficult are these cheap radios to program? If I get my license, is it pretty much a no brainer to program the repeaters? Or is simplex better for wheeling in the mountains?

Also, can you program repeaters in advance? Or do you have to be in the area to add them to your radio?
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Old 07-31-2014, 07:46 AM   #20
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A couple guys I wheel with are HAM guys and they have convinced me it the way to go. I plan to get my license and a set up for the Jeep soon. Kalvin (Evil Smurf) is on our run Saturday. I'm sure he would be happy to show you how he is set up and discuss the finer points of HAM operation.
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:05 AM   #21
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Is reading/writing Morse Code still part of receiving a HAM license?
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:14 AM   #22
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Is reading/writing Morse Code still part of receiving a HAM license?
No, that requirement has been gone for a while.

Everyone starts out with the Technician class. Some people study by just memorizing the answers to the test.

I went to a class sponsored by the local HAM club, and used a supplementary manual by Gordon West.

You can find the Gordon West manuals on Amazon and pretty much do it on your own, class or no class, if you just follow his plan.
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Old 07-31-2014, 10:30 AM   #23
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How difficult are these cheap radios to program? If I get my license, is it pretty much a no brainer to program the repeaters? Or is simplex better for wheeling in the mountains?

Also, can you program repeaters in advance? Or do you have to be in the area to add them to your radio?
There are repeater books (maybe websites too by now) that give all the repeaters by area with the information needed to program a radio for them.

Some radios are easier to program for a repeater than others. I've had some where I had to refer to the manual every time I wanted to add a new repeater so look over the repeater instructions to see if they make sense before choosing your radio. The cheap Chinese ham radios are some of the most difficult to program, mainly because their manuals are poorly translated into English and they're nearly impossible to understand. A friend of mine gave up trying to get his Chinese radio working with a repeater and uses it for simplex (no repeater) use only.

I always pre-program mine before heading into an area, though it's still not a 100% chance the repeater named for the area will work in all parts of the area. I have something like 3 Big Bear repeaters programmed into my 2m radio but there are some areas in the Big Bear mountain area that none of them work in.

We can talk ham radio this coming weekend.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:08 AM   #24
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There are repeater books (maybe websites too by now) that give all the repeaters by area with the information needed to program a radio for them.

Some radios are easier to program for a repeater than others. I've had some where I had to refer to the manual every time I wanted to add a new repeater so look over the repeater instructions to see if they make sense before choosing your radio. The cheap Chinese ham radios are some of the most difficult to program, mainly because their manuals are poorly translated into English and they're nearly impossible to understand. A friend of mine gave up trying to get his Chinese radio working with a repeater and uses it for simplex (no repeater) use only.

I always pre-program mine before heading into an area, though it's still not a 100% chance the repeater named for the area will work in all parts of the area. I have something like 3 Big Bear repeaters programmed into my 2m radio but there are some areas in the Big Bear mountain area that none of them work in.

We can talk ham radio this coming weekend.
Yeah, I know I should pony up the money for a decent radio, but my budget calls for the $40 one right now. I should probably focus on the certification first.

I assume you still need the cert to use the simplex?
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:33 AM   #25
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Yeah, I know I should pony up the money for a decent radio, but my budget calls for the $40 one right now. I should probably focus on the certification first.

I assume you still need the cert to use the simplex?
You don't need a certification to purchase a radio... you don't need a certification to use the radio if you are using it on SIMPLEX, MURS or FRS frequencies. If you want to start hitting the repeaters, get a license. Also.. .if you have someone with you that is licensed, you can use your radio and that persons call sign. I could be wrong... but that is how I interpret the rules.

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Old 07-31-2014, 11:34 AM   #26
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Yeah, I know I should pony up the money for a decent radio, but my budget calls for the $40 one right now. I should probably focus on the certification first.

I assume you still need the cert to use the simplex?
Yes, you need the license to operate the radio itself regardless of the mode. Although simplex is not the correct term, it's half-duplex. Simplex is like a broadcast radio station, communication only goes one way. Half-duplex is what any push to talk system uses; one person talks, one listens. Repeaters are full-duplex because it transmits and receives simultaneously.

EDIT: The reason you need a license is because the FCC limits non-ham radios to set pre-programmed frequencies (channels). HAM radios should not have this limitation on frequencies, you program the frequency you want to use. The license gives you access to all of the frequencies in the amateur bands, not just pre-set channels. Therefore you need to the license to operate a HAM radio.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:38 AM   #27
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You don't need a certification to purchase a radio... you don't need a certification to use the radio if you are using it on SIMPLEX, MURS or FRS frequencies. If you want to start hitting the repeaters, get a license. Also.. .if you have someone with you that is licensed, you can use your radio and that persons call sign. I could be wrong... but that is how I interpret the rules.

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Hmm. Might consider stopping by radio shack later and picking one up. Would they have one of those cheap ones? Or should I just buy it online? That way I can use the simplex and work on getting my cert.

One of my co-workers is a Ham (my boss). I might check with him if he has one for sale.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:56 AM   #28
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None of the Radio Shacks in my area carry ham radios any more. You will probably have to look on Amazon or eBay for one of those cheap Chinese 2m radios. Make sure it has the ability to use repeaters.

And yes you definitely need your ham license to legally use it.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:57 AM   #29
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You don't need a certification to purchase a radio... you don't need a certification to use the radio if you are using it on SIMPLEX, MURS or FRS frequencies. If you want to start hitting the repeaters, get a license. Also.. .if you have someone with you that is licensed, you can use your radio and that persons call sign. I could be wrong... but that is how I interpret the rules.

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This is seriously bad advice. You DO need a license to operate ANY HAM radio. Simplex is the wrong term, it's half-duplex. And using someone else's call sign is a good way to get that person's license revoked. Not to mention the hefty fines associated with operating an unlicensed transmitter.
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Old 07-31-2014, 12:42 PM   #30
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This is seriously bad advice. You DO need a license to operate ANY HAM radio. Simplex is the wrong term, it's half-duplex. And using someone else's call sign is a good way to get that person's license revoked. Not to mention the hefty fines associated with operating an unlicensed transmitter.
I seem to recall that if you dont have a license.. and you want to transmit you can with a licensed HAM present. My son is 7 and he does not have a license and he talks all the time. I will have to check my manual and the rules.. but I believe I am correct.

And.. there is no difference from FRS and UHF/VHF other and output wattage. Put your transmitter on LOW and you can talk all day long on the FRS using your UHF/VHF... again.. I could be wrong.

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