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Old 05-08-2013, 02:10 PM   #181
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FYP
What does that stand for...?

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Old 05-08-2013, 02:10 PM   #182
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Fixed your post.

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Old 05-08-2013, 02:26 PM   #183
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Fixed your post.
Oh...wasn't that special ...lol
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:58 PM   #184
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Yeah it was kinda cute.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:18 AM   #185
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My feelings are this on this weight issue: I spent many years Drag Racing in the NHRA circuit from California to Indiana, Texas to Seattle. Spent countless dollars on parts and machine work, some was worth the money, some makes me wish I had the wasted dollars so I could pay cash for a nice house by the beach. Carbon fiber, aluminum, magnesium, and lots of titanium parts were part of my car and engine. The most scrutinized part on that car going through NHRA tech inspection was the chromoly chassis. No aluminum, magnesium, or any other alloy because this piece would save your life in the event of an unfortunate crash.
Basically in other words, when weight mattered, you kept everything else as light as possible to do the job so you could build a strong frame to carry everything? Sounds very much like our Jeeps. Steel frame where it's needed to support the suspension and provide exceptional mounting support for the rest of the stuff like the body, fuel tank, motor, and similar.



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Now back to these Jeeps, I'm with Steve, steel under and sides and put aluminum wherever else you want. We wheel trails, not competition in KOH, not jeep speed or other off road events. The steel, although heavier, withstands rock beatings weekend after rocky weekend.
I don't believe anyone misconstrued my examples that answer the question as being what we should be doing with our rigs, did they? As far as aluminum no holding up, it isn't hard to understand the skid plate I put up pictures of. It's been there, it's been drug over countless rocks and it still works fine.


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As far as your jeep not performing as well being heavy, were not racing as earlier said, and my pig of a JK unlimited weighs at minimum 6200 lbs, or pounds so I don't get called lazy. Anyone who wheels with me or wants to can see for themselves it will go where I point it. Ready for the KOH? No. Ready for any weekend to have fun with you guys on this forum that actually get out and wheel on a regular basis? Yes! And it does carry an ice chest, tools, jack, and maybe a bumper dumper for those unplanned movements!
And there is nary a thing wrong with that. There is also nothing wrong with looking at the other side of the weight issue and perhaps wondering if less of it might be a good thing for those on slightly smaller tires and a few inches less wheelbase? Maybe even to the point that less weight means you can run smaller axles, smaller tires, and not have to spend quite so much building up a rig.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:25 AM   #186
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Yeah it was kinda cute.
Bob, it is nice to see you doing your own experiments with weight to educate yourself. Added weight is fairly insidious in the ways we do it incrementally. I often relate it to the boiling frog analogy. Toss a frog in a pot of boiling water and he knows it's bad, tries to run away and understand immediately that the situation is not in his best interest.

On the other hand, put a frog in a pot of cold water on a burner and the gradual warming to boiling will keep him unalarmed right up until he's totally done.

We do the same things with our rigs. Add a bit here, get used to the down grade in performance, add another bit ad infinitum and one day it gets to the point where the rig can't get out of it's own way.

Now that you've had a chance to run without the hardtop, what did you notice? Bear in mind that the weight difference is what, 100 lbs or so?
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Old 05-18-2013, 06:32 PM   #187
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I noticed it in the first mile. It handles better. Not as top heavy. Now admittedly I drive hard and fast and I have road raced but still I gotta say that I am glad I switched. Enough so that I took off my gas cans and sucked the spare tire 6" in closer. I'm not sure if the HiLift is staying. I have to ponder that. I feel the big winch up front but I wanted the Powerplant and decided to figure other ways to cut weight. I am still going to look at what I put on mine as far as weight and be careful. When the cable gets some tooth on it I'll switch out to synthetic and save 20 lbs.
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Old 05-18-2013, 08:16 PM   #188
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I noticed it in the first mile. It handles better. Not as top heavy. Now admittedly I drive hard and fast and I have road raced but still I gotta say that I am glad I switched. Enough so that I took off my gas cans and sucked the spare tire 6" in closer. I'm not sure if the HiLift is staying. I have to ponder that. I feel the big winch up front but I wanted the Powerplant and decided to figure other ways to cut weight. I am still going to look at what I put on mine as far as weight and be careful. When the cable gets some tooth on it I'll switch out to synthetic and save 20 lbs.
Well Bob I guess the top made up for the winch in terms of weight, but is a lot more useful as both a winch and a compressor. I sold mine to upgrade in other places as well.
As far as the winch goes, I'm doing it opposite of you. I just today received a 3/8 by 80' warn synthetic winch line and aluminum fair lead. My winch is working fine and will be in place until I can afford a warn.
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:55 PM   #189
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Hi Bill
What winch do you have? If it's working good then why replace it?

I bought the Powerplant at 100 lbs because I traded off the 25 pounds of weight from the Powertank in the back. Net weight gain is only 75. Then when I do the syn rope I will be down to 55 pounds added. That is not figuring an aluminum winch plate and fairlead which will whittle maybe another 10. so I ended up with my on board air and a quality 9500 lb winch for a 45 pound net gain. And yeah the top. There is a hundred pounds off so I am going to have to add some ballast to keep it from floating away.
I think this is the way I am going to look at my diet program for the jeep. Just keep whittling away at the weight without giving up strength.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:55 PM   #190
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Yes I run old school Dana 44s the front one is out of an 81 Wagoneer and the rear is an HD Dana 44 out of an Isuzu that uses d60 parts...I run 37" Irok's bias tires that are liter then most 35"s and I've never broken any part of the axles.
for u with ur 2.5 and wanting to stay 5 lug and with the narrow 8.8 I'd look for a front d44 out of a Waggy and convert it to ford or Scout spindles & breaks
How do you like the IROKs for this kind of wheeling? I'm from the south so all we run are swampers there. I've been looking at the MTRs, IROKs, and pro comp extreme MTs. Granted I really only road trip my jeep to the trail....(I either spend my money on parts or wheeling trips besides my normal bills). The majority of people I wheel with swear by the MTR and when I was telling them the tires I was looking at they get all disgusted. But yeah how do the IROKs work for you?
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:38 PM   #191
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How do you like the IROKs for this kind of wheeling? I'm from the south so all we run are swampers there. I've been looking at the MTRs, IROKs, and pro comp extreme MTs. Granted I really only road trip my jeep to the trail....(I either spend my money on parts or wheeling trips besides my normal bills). The majority of people I wheel with swear by the MTR and when I was telling them the tires I was looking at they get all disgusted. But yeah how do the IROKs work for you?
In situations that require a high traction tire, they are a very interesting tire. I've wheeled in JV extensively with several folks that run that tire and they have never once not made it over an obstacle that others did with a different tire. The only difference is driving style. The Iroks spun easily, but as they were spinning the rig was still making steady forward progress.

To keep the discussion somewhat apples to apples, my friend Adam drove a SOA YJ on 36" Iroks and they never held him back. It is just a matter of whether or not you can deal with having to keep them spinning to stay moving.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:43 PM   #192
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In situations that require a high traction tire, they are a very interesting tire. I've wheeled in JV extensively with several folks that run that tire and they have never once not made it over an obstacle that others did with a different tire. The only difference is driving style. The Iroks spun easily, but as they were spinning the rig was still making steady forward progress.

To keep the discussion somewhat apples to apples, my friend Adam drove a SOA YJ on 36" Iroks and they never held him back. It is just a matter of whether or not you can deal with having to keep them spinning to stay moving.
Any issues with chunking real bad or gashes in the side walls? I'll be running 15x8s for a little while then eventually running 15x8 bead locks once I find some willing to weld them on, and not an arm and a leg.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:57 PM   #193
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I noticed it in the first mile. It handles better. Not as top heavy. Now admittedly I drive hard and fast and I have road raced but still I gotta say that I am glad I switched. Enough so that I took off my gas cans and sucked the spare tire 6" in closer. I'm not sure if the HiLift is staying. I have to ponder that. I feel the big winch up front but I wanted the Powerplant and decided to figure other ways to cut weight. I am still going to look at what I put on mine as far as weight and be careful. When the cable gets some tooth on it I'll switch out to synthetic and save 20 lbs.
Having been involved in about a bazillion "You Can't be A Jeeper without the Big 3" threads, those being the Optima Battery, K&N air filter, and the Hi-lift jack, I can tell you there are two schools of thought.

Them that adhere to the "it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it" and those that adhere to the "It is a dangerous, heavy, generally useless chunk of dead weight that is not used often enough to warrant the weight and expense".

I have personally dealt with more stucks and breaks than I can count and not once have I wished for a hi-lift and generally will send them back to their homes when the owners carry them up to where I'm working.

I'd rather have a winch, just about any winch over a hi-lift. Now with all that said, that doesn't mean I think any less of anyone that carries one. They just don't fit my personal needs in the least and the one I have is still in the same disused condition it has been in for the last 10 or so years and roughly in the same spot in the storage shed.

I've not found a single instance where I needed to lift an axle where I couldn't easily make the stock jack or a small hydraulic bottle jack work.

Where I play, about 90% of the time I don't even use a jack. Just drive forward or back a few feet and drive the diff or axle up on a rock if all I'm doing is plugging or changing a tire.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:58 PM   #194
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Any issues with chunking real bad or gashes in the side walls? I'll be running 15x8s for a little while then eventually running 15x8 bead locks once I find some willing to weld them on, and not an arm and a leg.
Of the folks that I've wheeled with that had them, Adam showed up the most in his YJ and he never complained about any of that nor did I witness it.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:09 AM   #195
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Having been involved in about a bazillion "You Can't be A Jeeper without the Big 3" threads, those being the Optima Battery, K&N air filter, and the Hi-lift jack, I can tell you there are two schools of thought.

Them that adhere to the "it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it" and those that adhere to the "It is a dangerous, heavy, generally useless chunk of dead weight that is not used often enough to warrant the weight and expense".

I have personally dealt with more stucks and breaks than I can count and not once have I wished for a hi-lift and generally will send them back to their homes when the owners carry them up to where I'm working.

I'd rather have a winch, just about any winch over a hi-lift. Now with all that said, that doesn't mean I think any less of anyone that carries one. They just don't fit my personal needs in the least and the one I have is still in the same disused condition it has been in for the last 10 or so years and roughly in the same spot in the storage shed.

I've not found a single instance where I needed to lift an axle where I couldn't easily make the stock jack or a small hydraulic bottle jack work.

Where I play, about 90% of the time I don't even use a jack. Just drive forward or back a few feet and drive the diff or axle up on a rock if all I'm doing is plugging or changing a tire.
I carry a hi-lift... And my last couple wheeling trips I've used it. Granted one tried to flex on a random rock and it rolled under him. Had to use the high lift to get it off the rock then move the rock out from under him. Another time was to get a rock out of someones wheel well. They are useful but only to lift up the vehicle. Screw winching with one.... It will make you cuss more than usual.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:50 AM   #196
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Right now I am of a mind to dump the HiLift. I'm no trail rat but I have guys I wheel with who have been doing it for 30 years. Dennis has done SledgeHammer, the rubicon, moab, etc. He says he has never used his but he still carries it every trip. He also has a welder and OBA. Plus tons of spares. And I'll be darned if he at 70 and on 33's isn't one hard Hombre to follow. But by the same token Kenny used it twice lately. Makes it a hard decision.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:59 AM   #197
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Right now I am of a mind to dump the HiLift. I'm no trail rat but I have guys I wheel with who have been doing it for 30 years. Dennis has done SledgeHammer, the rubicon, moab, etc. He says he has never used his but he still carries it every trip. He also has a welder and OBA. Plus tons of spares. And I'll be darned if he at 70 and on 33's isn't one hard Hombre to follow. But by the same token Kenny used it twice lately. Makes it a hard decision.
I totally cracked my factory sub woofer enclosure with it in the back which pisses me off. I'd rather armor up before buy some $50 mounts for a hi-lift, which take 10 mins to get it off the damn tailgate. But in the past 3 months I've used it maybe 8 times. So it helps me. I think its bc most the people I go wheeling with are pretty new and less capable rigs.
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:56 AM   #198
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I'm gonna save it for now. It's stashed. I'll decide later if I want it or not. Right now it doesn't cost me to keep it in the storage.
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:38 AM   #199
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I'm gonna save it for now. It's stashed. I'll decide later if I want it or not. Right now it doesn't cost me to keep it in the storage.
For some reason, I find it difficult to part with mine and I likely won't, but I'll never carry it in a TJ or LJ sized Jeep.

But, I'm also the guy that right after finishing a build-up on my rig, ran out of time for an upcoming trip so I snagged a tire carrier from Currie and installed it. Ran Sledgehammer, hated the way the weight unbalanced the rig, removed it when we got back to camp and promptly sold it when we got home.

That was my epiphany where the question "Does weight matter?" was answered.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:10 AM   #200
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How do you like the IROKs for this kind of wheeling? I'm from the south so all we run are swampers there. I've been looking at the MTRs, IROKs, and pro comp extreme MTs. Granted I really only road trip my jeep to the trail....(I either spend my money on parts or wheeling trips besides my normal bills). The majority of people I wheel with swear by the MTR and when I was telling them the tires I was looking at they get all disgusted. But yeah how do the IROKs work for you?
I'd have to say that I really like the bias Irok's. I'm running the 37x14x15.. they give a huge footprint but do need to be run in the single digits to really make them squat. The bias 36 x 12:50 Irok's are a little taller and might be a better match for your 8" wheel...a couple bucks cheaper too.
I agree with Blaine that they do spin more then other tires I've run in the past and take some getting used to but that's how they work...which makes them a perfect tire if your running front & rear digs...another thing about them is they're like a new pair of boots in regards to they need to be broke in and once they are...Oh boy they're awesome ....I think that's why people that run them run them till they're almost slicks ....
So ...yes I like the tire and works great for me both on and off the pavement but this is not my daily drive.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:17 AM   #201
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I'd have to say that I really like the bias Irok's. I'm running the 37x14x15.. they give a huge footprint but do need to be run in the single digits to really make them squat. The bias 36 x 12:50 Irok's are a little taller and might be a better match for your 8" wheel...a couple bucks cheaper to.
I agree with Blaine that they do spin more then other tires I've run in the past and take some getting used to but that's how they work...another thing about them is they're like a new pair of boots in regards to they need to be broke in and once they are...Oh boy they're awesome ....I think that's why people that run them run them till they're almost slicks ....
So ...yes I like the tire and works great for me both on and off the pavement but this is not my daily drive.
Well technically my rubi is my daily driver.... But I'm stationed at ft Irwin and the only places I go, is to the trail. So that whole must drive well on the highway and road noise stuff I don't give a damn about. Then again I bought my jeep bc I needed a newer vehicle, and its got a factory beefy drivetrain lol. Sucks trying to figure out what tires you want to run. But for my driving style I hate wheel spin. So I need something that sticks like glue. I wish BFG crawlers weren't such a soft tread compound lol
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:26 AM   #202
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...which makes them a perfect tire if your running front & rear digs....
I've run 40" DOT MT/Rk's, and 2 full sets of 39" Red Label Krawlers and never had much of an issue doing digs. I'm not sure the tire matters that much.

The only thing I can think of would be if you are running a D-44 size u-joint then you might care. Then again, as much as I give them crap for doing it, several of my friends do them with HP 30 fronts and MT/R's on the rocks, so it just might not matter at all.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:30 AM   #203
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I wish BFG crawlers weren't such a soft tread compound lol
Which ones? DOT or the stickies? I can tell you that the stickies are very sticky but they will lose about half the tread depth from new if you make one trip to JV from OC on the highway.

The DOT versions are not that soft, have pretty good traction and wear well on the highway.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:36 AM   #204
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Oh the good ol Hi-lift ...I made some mounts to mount mine across my hood.... I don't know maybe some 7 or 9 years ago and it has been there ever sense. In the past 10 year's I'd have to say that I've seen one being used to lift a body to remove a wedged rock from a wheel well.
The big problem with the jack is you really have to put the body of the jeep high in the air just to lift the wheel off the ground enough to change a tire and at that point for me I'm feeling nervous about it falling over on me ...
I guess I'm superstitious in that if I remove it I'll surely need it...lol
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:38 AM   #205
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Which ones? DOT or the stickies? I can tell you that the stickies are very sticky but they will lose about half the tread depth from new if you make one trip to JV from OC on the highway.

The DOT versions are not that soft, have pretty good traction and wear well on the highway.
Might look into those more. I really want to play in johnson valley but this champagne dreams on a beer budget might take a while to get there (year or so).
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:59 AM   #206
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Might look into those more. I really want to play in johnson valley but this champagne dreams on a beer budget might take a while to get there (year or so).
Entirely different recommendation in that case. You will have to go a very long way to outdo the MTRk out there.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:00 AM   #207
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Oh the good ol Hi-lift ...I made some mounts to mount mine across my hood.... I don't know maybe some 7 or 9 years ago and it has been there ever sense. In the past 10 year's I'd have to say that I've seen one being used to lift a body to remove a wedged rock from a wheel well.
The big problem with the jack is you really have to put the body of the jeep high in the air just to lift the wheel off the ground enough to change a tire and at that point for me I'm feeling nervous about it falling over on me ...
I guess I'm superstitious in that if I remove it I'll surely need it...lol
It works much better if you keep a small chunk of chain with hooks around. Use it to chain the axle up to the frame so you get full lift of the axle when the frame moves.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:10 AM   #208
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Entirely different recommendation in that case. You will have to go a very long way to outdo the MTRk out there.
Well I know I'll be wheeling a mix of big bear, calico, JV, and other trails that I plan on till I finally buy some decent size tires. Right now I'm all about wheeling, upgrading to correct issues or areas that I've found my rubi to struggle in.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:16 AM   #209
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It works much better if you keep a small chunk of chain with hooks around. Use it to chain the axle up to the frame so you get full lift of the axle when the frame moves.
Hey that's a good idea...thanx
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:19 AM   #210
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Although I have never used my Hi-Lift and have a few friends that have never used theirs as well, but we all carry one. That said in the last 8 months I have seen it used four times and twice on one run. Everything we do to our rigs is for just in case of this or that but fun to add stuff to our jeeps

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