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Old 11-01-2008, 12:42 PM   #1
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Can someone explain to me why...

...the two men in Kentucky who hung Obama in effigy were jailed for hate crimes while the two men in N. Hollywood who hung Palin were just labeled "Pranksters".

Disclaimer: I just read this story in the local paper and can't account for the credibility of the article. The Palin story has been on the news here all week, but this is the first I've heard about the guys in Lexington.

On edit: A little quick research says that they were only charged with "disorderly conduct"

Quote:
Hunter Bush, 21, of Lexington, Kentucky who was arrested with Joe Fischer, 22, a UK student, for hanging an effigy of Barack Obama from a tree. The charge was for disorderly conduct, though it is unclear why these men were arrested while a recent example of hanging Palin was not made into a criminal matter.

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Old 11-01-2008, 01:09 PM   #2
Really?

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No one can Brian... Seems "Political Correctness" doesn't cut across the color barrier.

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Old 11-01-2008, 01:09 PM   #3
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No one can explain it, Unlimited. There's not a single explanation that can justify the inequity of reaction to these incidents.
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Old 11-01-2008, 01:12 PM   #4
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It makes the politicians feel good to write laws to "protect" minorities.

I can't believe any charges would stand, since "freedom of speech" has been perverted into "freedom of expression" I can't see how this doesn't fall under the first amendment in both cases.
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Old 11-01-2008, 05:27 PM   #5
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As I understand it, states rights are central to the Republican platform. That would mean that different laws and standards should exists between different states and not be Federally mandated.

And, remember, as annoying as it is, the PC movement is not a political movement. It is people shaming people. That's is the way social mores SHOULD be propagated, rather than being codified in law.

And as for the first amendment, sounds like Ms. Palin believes it should be used to protect government from critique by the press. Calling this interpretation interesting is an understatement. I'm afraid we may have a person in line for the presidency that doesn't fundamentally understand the first amendment.
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Old 11-02-2008, 02:08 AM   #6
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Here's the CA Penal code section. Go figure why the courts will only use it to protect minorities. While the liberals may disagree, white guys DO get robbed and attacked in the getto because of their color and racism is active in all races. The double standard in this country is stupid.


422.55. For purposes of this title, and for purposes of all other
state law unless an explicit provision of law or the context clearly
requires a different meaning, the following shall apply:
(a) "Hate crime" means a criminal act committed, in whole or in
part, because of one or more of the following actual or perceived
characteristics of the victim:
(1) Disability.
(2) Gender.
(3) Nationality.
(4) Race or ethnicity.
(5) Religion.
(6) Sexual orientation.
(7) Association with a person or group with one or more of these
actual or perceived characteristics.
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Old 11-02-2008, 06:56 AM   #7
that's what she said

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so, if obama does not win the election is that going to be considered a hate crime? or is everyone who didn't vote for him just going to be considered racist?
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Old 11-02-2008, 09:48 AM   #8
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Even though I know you don't want an answer since the questions were posed for effect and not a legitimate desire to know, the answer is No. Those sorts of conclusions would be completely false and strawman at that. Racist in context to how someone is voting only comes into play when color is used as a reason to vote for or against. And of course, to be a hate crime it must be a crime first.
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Old 11-02-2008, 09:57 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Dirt View Post
Here's the CA Penal code section. Go figure why the courts will only use it to protect minorities. While the liberals may disagree, white guys DO get robbed and attacked in the getto because of their color and racism is active in all races. The double standard in this country is stupid.


422.55. For purposes of this title, and for purposes of all other
state law unless an explicit provision of law or the context clearly
requires a different meaning, the following shall apply:
(a) "Hate crime" means a criminal act committed, in whole or in
part, because of one or more of the following actual or perceived
characteristics of the victim:

(1) Disability.
(2) Gender.
(3) Nationality.
(4) Race or ethnicity.
(5) Religion.
(6) Sexual orientation.
(7) Association with a person or group with one or more of these
actual or perceived characteristics.
Bolded the problem. The accepted definition of a hate crime leaves the law open to interpretation. Just because a seedy character hurls racial slurs at his intended victim does not mean he's robbing/assaulting the person because of that characteristic.

And, if I may offer my own interpretation, since gender is in there, wouldn't all rapes be a hate crime? Male rapists usually choose female victims out of the desire to do violence against a woman. Hate crime yes? The law needs to be rewritten to remove the need for interpretation.
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Old 11-02-2008, 10:31 AM   #10
that's what she said

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiny terror View Post
Even though I know you don't want an answer since the questions were posed for effect and not a legitimate desire to know, the answer is No. Those sorts of conclusions would be completely false and strawman at that. Racist in context to how someone is voting only comes into play when color is used as a reason to vote for or against. And of course, to be a hate crime it must be a crime first.

i know, i just get frustrated with the election b.s. and the double standard that has been set. the excerpt that joe dirt has quoted also says gender is another qualification, so why can we just laugh off the Palin hanging, what if these people are male shovanists out to lynch women? The problem is that people take things like this too seriously. do some people actually think that these two guys are going to get obama and hang him? it is just a likely that the people who hung palin are going to acutally hang her.
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Old 11-02-2008, 10:40 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgano23 View Post
i know, i just get frustrated with the election b.s. and the double standard that has been set. the excerpt that joe dirt has quoted also says gender is another qualification, so why can we just laugh off the Palin hanging, what if these people are male shovanists out to lynch women? The problem is that people take things like this too seriously. do some people actually think that these two guys are going to get obama and hang him? it is just a likely that the people who hung palin are going to acutally hang her.

I agree, but an argument can be made over history. Lynching had been long used to symbolize a racist view. Let me pose it another way... Say the effigies were... stay with me as I try to state this in a forum friendly manner... say both Palin and Obama were taking it up the... [get where I'm going?]. I'd say there would be more outrage of an effigy of Palin being "raped" than for an Obama effigy getting the same treatment.

See what I'm saying? It's all in the context I think. Hell, there's been not one mention of John McCain's effigy, and yes there was one, along with the Palin effigy. He was shooting out of the chimney, flames included.
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Old 11-02-2008, 10:50 AM   #12
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i completely get your point and i agree, but would someone have been arrested because of the "raping" effigy?
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Old 11-02-2008, 10:58 AM   #13
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Unfortunately, lots of people get arrested and the charges lessened. Police are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I'd say as unfair - and it is, unfair and unbalanced - the reaction shows how clearly divided the country is over the singular desire to get the US back on track.

However it all falls on the arresting officer's judgment. And I'm sure he was using his best judgment at that moment. I'd be interested to know however if the Hate Crime laws in Kentucky vary significantly from the laws in California.
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Old 11-02-2008, 11:14 AM   #14
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once again good point. it seems to me that the Kentucky law is very similar to the california law. http://162.114.4.13/KRS/532-00/031.PDF. it's still frustrating though. I am hoping that come November 5th all of this political garbage is done.

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