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Old 10-14-2012, 12:08 PM   #1
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Caution,religious question

Now I know religion can lead to a heated debate,which I dont want.I was flipping thru stations & heard a preacher or priest,not sure which one saying that all sins are the same.That if you break one sin its the same as breaking another.Even asked someone who is very into religion & she agreed.So stealing a cookie is the same as murdering someone?? How can it be??

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Old 10-14-2012, 12:26 PM   #2
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It depends upon the religion. The Catholic religion has venial sins and mortal sins. Stealing the cookie would be a venial sin while murder would be a mortal sin.

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Old 10-14-2012, 12:41 PM   #3
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Protestant Christianity states that a sin is a sin. No matter how big or small. And because of this, no man can enter into heaven without Christ. That is why Christ came and died. To take the place of us sinners.

Interested in how other religions believe. I didn't know that about Catholicism.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:00 PM   #4
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All sin is not equal. The sin of ADAM and EVE did what? Was it a little sin or a big sin? God obviously judged Adam and Eve's sin more than most sins that came after. Their sin affected the entire human race forever.

Sins have to be judged to their severity against God's Law. In the Catholic Church, as already mentioned, venial sins are the smaller sins... such as stealing a stick of gum while you are a child. Mortal sins are the deadly sins and they are deadly because they destroy the life (the relationship) of Christ in your soul. An example would be stealing millions of people's retirement funds and pensions for sheer greed. Do you really think those two are judged the same before God?

1jeeplvr, I think it was a great question, and it should be asked. There are many people who have questions but are afraid to ask them. Don't be. If you get a bad answer, skip it and go to the next. It is just like asking how to fix something on this forum. Keep searching and the truth will be found. Again, great question.

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Old 10-16-2012, 11:03 PM   #5
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I'm a Lutheran. And I personally believe that a sin, is a sin. No matter what.

If you know you committed your sin, and you confess to God and you know it was wrong for committing that sin. Then I believe that, at least in God's eyes. You are the same as any other sinner. As you confessed and showed God you have strength for going to him, and have faith in him.

Now, to me if you just sin and sin and sin, and don't confess to God, and you just don't care that you sin. Or maybe you don't have a relationship with God because you choose not to, then I think God will look at you differently than sinners who know they did wrong and who confessed.

That's just my personal philosophy.

(I hope all that made sense)
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:33 AM   #6
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A sin is a sin in my book. So don't come getting all preachy on me when you're 400 pounds.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:28 AM   #7
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Great points everyone.There is a reason I asked this question.When I was younger,20 years younger there is a sin that I will never forgive myself for.It hurts my heart & I have confessed it to God and of lately really looked at my life differently,how I try to behave.My religion is, I was grown up catholic but my Mom has been born again for many years,so I have been to her church many times in the past,maybe start again.I let God into my heart & asked that my sin be forgiven.I feel so bad I get myself worked up about it.Im just afraid God wont forgive me.I hope he will.I am as remourseful as I can be,honestly.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:34 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1jeeplvr
Great points everyone.There is a reason I asked this question.When I was younger,20 years younger there is a sin that I will never forgive myself for.It hurts my heart & I have confessed it to God and of lately really looked at my life differently,how I try to behave.My religion is, I was grown up catholic but my Mom has been born again for many years,so I have been to her church many times in the past,maybe start again.I let God into my heart & asked that my sin be forgiven.I feel so bad I get myself worked up about it.Im just afraid God wont forgive me.I hope he will.I am as remourseful as I can be,honestly.
The bible states that once we confess our sins to God and ask for His forgiveness, it is as if this sin never happened in His eyes.
It is us being human and not allowing Him to bless us with forgiveness that you are struggling with. You need to have faith that He has forgiven you as He states He has, then continue to live your life for Him the best you can.
I will see if I can find the passage for you.
But yes, my sin of lust or greed is as bad as the person who has murdered(according to Christianity dunno about other religions). They both separate me from my God and prevent me from having a relationship with Him. But fortunately, forgiveness is the same for all sins too. Accept Christ, ask Him for forgiveness, and live your life according to His Word. You Will stumble and fall, but keep trying to live each day mor for Him than the day before.
Let the pain you have from this past act/decision go, forgive yourself, and try to live for God.
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moscoeb View Post
The bible states that once we confess our sins to God and ask for His forgiveness, it is as if this sin never happened in His eyes.
It is us being human and not allowing Him to bless us with forgiveness that you are struggling with. You need to have faith that He has forgiven you as He states He has, then continue to live your life for Him the best you can.
I will see if I can find the passage for you.
But yes, my sin of lust or greed is as bad as the person who has murdered(according to Christianity dunno about other religions). They both separate me from my God and prevent me from having a relationship with Him. But fortunately, forgiveness is the same for all sins too. Accept Christ, ask Him for forgiveness, and live your life according to His Word. You Will stumble and fall, but keep trying to live each day mor for Him than the day before.
Let the pain you have from this past act/decision go, forgive yourself, and try to live for God.
Great post Moscoeb, I couldn't have said it better.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:13 PM   #10
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Thanks for everyones input.I really do appreciate it.Its just something I think of every day, lately from the second I awake until the second Im asleep.And that is no exaggeration.Its something I have to work thru.Thank you everyone.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:24 PM   #11
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All sin is not equal. The sin of ADAM and EVE did what? Was it a little sin or a big sin? God obviously judged Adam and Eve's sin more than most sins that came after. Their sin affected the entire human race forever.

Sins have to be judged to their severity against God's Law. In the Catholic Church, as already mentioned, venial sins are the smaller sins... such as stealing a stick of gum while you are a child. Mortal sins are the deadly sins and they are deadly because they destroy the life (the relationship) of Christ in your soul. An example would be stealing millions of people's retirement funds and pensions for sheer greed. Do you really think those two are judged the same before God?

1jeeplvr, I think it was a great question, and it should be asked. There are many people who have questions but are afraid to ask them. Don't be. If you get a bad answer, skip it and go to the next. It is just like asking how to fix something on this forum. Keep searching and the truth will be found. Again, great question.

Take care,
I'm not arguing, but asking, do you have any biblical backing to support the statement that sins are judged differently according to severity?
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:25 PM   #12
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Sin, separates us from God. So sin (whatever the action/choice) keeps us from the relationship we were made for. Fast forward from Adam & Eve to the New Testament (a new covenant) and Jesus came to remove our sin so we could once again join God in a personal relationship. In that way, all sin is equal in that it separates us from God. In our laws, we have a different distinction, theft is not the same as murder, that allows a varied approach to punishment. Don't confuse earthly laws with how we relate to God, where ANY sin separates us from Him. Separation means no relationship which equals death. Jesus paid the price for our sin. It's more than just a token or symbol, he was God in the flesh and could have just waved the punishment for sin. He didn't, so he could show us his love. I'm a small child in my relationship with God, just trying to give you my understanding. There is a book you should read, it truly is the living Word because it will give you different meaning at different points in your life. All you need to do is know that the only way to the Father is through the Son, believe that Jesus is your personal savior and be who you are called to be.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:35 PM   #13
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^ That's good stuff up there in post 12.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:36 PM   #14
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It depends upon the religion. The Catholic religion has venial sins and mortal sins. Stealing the cookie would be a venial sin while murder would be a mortal sin.
Which amounts to three Hail Mary's, or an eternity in the pits of hell... respectively.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:12 PM   #15
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Whetstone,

The most Holy Bible is the word of God. if you are not Catholic, why on earth do you believe that? please, Do NOT MISUNDERSTAND ME! I am not trying to be provocative, I am just reasoning it out. where did the Bible come from? It didn't fall out of the sky. Who put it together and said, "this is the holy Word of God." I mean Moses had the 10 Commandments and the people trusted him, for the most part. But the Bible wasn't around during Jesus'time. What authority said these words were "of God"?

for example, we buy a jeep manual or one that claims to be a close enough copy (Chilton or Haynes)... We wouldn't trust a jeep manual written and authored by, let's say "Prius"would we? (Yes, I know Prius is not a manufacturer, but I thought it was funny anyway.). If we wanted to be a doctor in America, we go to a accredited school. A school that is accredited by the American Medical Association or we can't practice in the United States of America. All their course materials and text books have to be approved to show competency in these materials which SHOULD translate to competency in the practice of being a doctor, following an internship at another accredited facility.

Can a book prove itself? Just because a book says it is authored by God, does that make it so? Anyone can write that, can't they? It seems to me that it has to be something else showing it is the true Word of God.

Oh, I digressed. I apologize. It is late and I will get back to you tomorrow. I am sorry. I love talking about the Bible and sometimes, I get a little side tracked.

Take care,
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:45 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by 1jeeplvr View Post
Great points everyone.There is a reason I asked this question.When I was younger,20 years younger there is a sin that I will never forgive myself for.It hurts my heart & I have confessed it to God and of lately really looked at my life differently,how I try to behave.My religion is, I was grown up catholic but my Mom has been born again for many years,so I have been to her church many times in the past,maybe start again.I let God into my heart & asked that my sin be forgiven.I feel so bad I get myself worked up about it.Im just afraid God wont forgive me.I hope he will.I am as remourseful as I can be,honestly.
Dude I am struggling with a similar issue. I know how you feel.

For months all I did was beat myself up, and would just sit and feel awful. I prayed to God though, and put my trust in him again, and I have been feeling a lot better since. I try and see the light in the issue and I try and look at how it has made me a better person for knowing that my sin was a sin, and it wasn't right.

Try and look at the positive parts to your issue, and know that it made you a better person from it. (Just if you haven't looked at it that way yet)

Hope this helps! God bless!

(Also, listening to Christian music helps lift your spirits and helps out a lot too in my opinion)
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:41 PM   #17
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The question is not will God forgive you. He says he will and even promises to forget it.
The question is are you willing to forgive yourself?
You can be forgiven and still suffer because YOU won't let it go.
Think of it like buying a car. You pay it off and get the title. But you keep sending money because you feel you got to good of a deal. You would not do that.
And the 2000 year old, Dead Sea Scrolls did go virtually word for word with the present KJV and the latin vulgate.
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Old 10-18-2012, 12:00 AM   #18
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Might help

James 2:10 KJV

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

This verse states that all sins are the same, theft is the same as murder.
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Old 10-18-2012, 12:22 AM   #19
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Whetstone,

The most Holy Bible is the word of God. if you are not Catholic, why on earth do you believe that? please, Do NOT MISUNDERSTAND ME! I am not trying to be provocative, I am just reasoning it out. where did the Bible come from? It didn't fall out of the sky. Who put it together and said, "this is the holy Word of God." I mean Moses had the 10 Commandments and the people trusted him, for the most part. But the Bible wasn't around during Jesus'time. What authority said these words were "of God"?

for example, we buy a jeep manual or one that claims to be a close enough copy (Chilton or Haynes)... We wouldn't trust a jeep manual written and authored by, let's say "Prius"would we? (Yes, I know Prius is not a manufacturer, but I thought it was funny anyway.). If we wanted to be a doctor in America, we go to a accredited school. A school that is accredited by the American Medical Association or we can't practice in the United States of America. All their course materials and text books have to be approved to show competency in these materials which SHOULD translate to competency in the practice of being a doctor, following an internship at another accredited facility.

Can a book prove itself? Just because a book says it is authored by God, does that make it so? Anyone can write that, can't they? It seems to me that it has to be something else showing it is the true Word of God.

Oh, I digressed. I apologize. It is late and I will get back to you tomorrow. I am sorry. I love talking about the Bible and sometimes, I get a little side tracked.

Take care,
I don't think that God would let his book have anything but the truth in it. But that's just my opinion, and I respect yours as well.
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Old 10-18-2012, 12:55 AM   #20
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Biblical defense of the sacrament of confession #1

Whetstone,

Sorry I am late getting back to you. Your insightful question took a little thinking on my part and a little research. Before I provide the answer you are looking for, I want to point something out.

To debate an issue, it is generally necessary to look at all sources of information about that issue to get to the "heart of the matter." So, for this question, I had to look up three sources to provide insight. They were: (1) The Holy Word of God present in the Bible. (2) What the early Church did regarding the sacrament of confession. What did the apostles teach their followers to do. What was the sacred tradition exercised back 2,000 years ago by the Catholic Church. (3) The Roman Catholic Catechism.

Debating the Bible is tricky because we are debating semantics and meanings of words "taking out of context" such as quoted in this thread by others. Because of that, I will quote the Bible as you asked. I will also quote historical practices from the early Church and using reason to help explain why? I believe this is the best way to answer your question respectfully and truthfully.

Can God forgive our sins without going to a Catholic priest? Sure. He is God. He can do whatever He wants to. The question should really be, did God create a priesthood to work for Him and to dispense sacraments to us? Yes He did. (What is a sacrament? It is outward sign, instituted by Christ, to give grace. Sacraments are what brings us into Christ's Church-baptism for example. Sacraments are the "special graces" we receive to keep us on the right path to Him. This is why confession is so important.)

In the Old Testament, we find in:

Leviticus 19: 20-22: A man who committed adultery had to bring a guilt offering for himself to the door of the tent of meeting (holy place where the ark of the covenant, which contained God’s true presence was kept).* But then it adds “And the priest shall make atonement for him …before the Lord for his sin…and the sin which he has committed shall be forgiven.”* (see also Leviticus 5: 5-6)* The priest could not make atonement if he were not aware of the man's sin, therefore the sinner had to confess his sins to a priest. Technically, the priest is acting as a mediator for the repentant sinner. God is forgiving the sinner through the priest.

In the New Testament, we find a few examples:

Matthew 3: 16 (and Mk 1: 5): “. . . they were baptized by him [John the Baptist] in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.”* So he who prepared the way for Christ, listened to confessions of sin, even though Christ hadn't instituted this sacrament until later with the apostles.

Matthew 9: 6-8: Jesus tells us that He was given authority on earth to forgive sins (a power reserved to God alone) and proves it with miraculous healings and then Scripture notes this same authority was given to “men” (plural).* Is this merely a figure of speech? No, John's Gospel makes it quite clear Our Lord intended this authority to go to "men".

John 20: 21-23: In his very first Resurrection appearance our Lord gives this awesome power to his Apostles with the words: “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”* How could they forgive sins if they were not confessed?* They could not.* Who were the apostles? The first bishops/priests of the Church. Who is the speaker? Christ Himself. He is saying how it is going to work. The Truth speaking the truth.

Peter (Mt. 16: 19) and then the other apostles (Mt. 18:18)?* “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” This includes sins.* Jesus allowed for us to receive spiritual consolation and counsel in this beautiful sacrament of the Church.
*
*James 5: 14-17:* "Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another …” Notice the command does not say confess your sins straight to God. *Notice also who they are to go to the “elders” (bishops or priests—see the Acts 14: 23; 15: 2 for example).

John 1: 9: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”* The word confess has an oral/verbal or proclamation meaning.* St. Paul describes his ministry as one of reconciliation of sinners:

2 Corinthians 5: 18: “All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation . . .”*

We can interpret this anyway we want but it is clear that in the Bible, there is more than enough evidence of confession being thought of as necessary to grow in holiness, to grow in purity, to grow closer to Our Lord.

Do we see evidence of this in the early Church? Yes we do, but that is for another post.

Take care,
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:07 AM   #21
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CMA rider,

It is clear that all sin is sin, so in that way they are equal in name and that they take us away from God by destroying that relationship with Him. However do you go through life and really believe that stealing a stick of gum/candy as a child is just as severe as murdering a child? Of course not. That is not what God taught us either. For example, Adam and Eve ate fruit from a tree and got kicked out of the Garden of Eden, correct? Yet, their son Caine murdered Abel... did God punish the entire human race again for that sin? No. Therefore, there must be a degree of severity involved in this judgement, after all, the parents just ate a piece of fruit yet, Caine murdered his brother. One put the effects of original sin upon us, one banished Caine from his parents. Both acts were disobedience to God's Will, defined as "sin." Yet, because of the consequences after, clearly the eating of the fruit was the worst of the offenses.

Take care,
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:20 AM   #22
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Defense of the Sacrament of Confession #2

Whetstone,

What were the practices of the early Church? We have some mention of this already in the Bible but we also have a written history about the early Church's traditions and witness. For example: St. Polycarp was the immediate successor to St. John the Apostle. He was imprisoned for being a Christian and was sent to the coliseum to be eaten by lions. From prison, he wrote, "I hope to be crunched and munched by the lions as Our Lord Jesus is in the Eucharist during the Mass." St. Polycarp was one of the early Church Fathers and their records and books are all over the place, if you look.

Back to confession... in the early Church communities, confessions were public and said to a bishop in front of the entire Church community. This pretty much stayed the same practice until around 1,000 AD. The practice was then changed to a private confession BUT THE SACRAMENT WAS THE SAME. ITS VALIDITY DIDN'T CHANGE, ONLY THE PROCEDURE CHANGED. Note that at no time was the idea even promoted to confess your sins secretly to God and God alone, without a priest being present. Why? Because this was how Christ taught the apostles to do it. He was the boss. He is either God or He isn't.

There is no Church history of this ever being the case until Martin Luther broke from the Church. Now for the first time ever, we have the idea that no priest is necessary for forgiveness of sins... just confess them to God alone. Remember, God is the one who established this procedure, not man...just like he did with the priesthood of the Old Testament. That is the simplicity of this argument. God makes a Church. God makes the rules. Either the Church follows them or not.

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Old 10-18-2012, 01:22 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1SAS
CMA rider,

It is clear that all sin is sin, so in that way they are equal in name and that they take us away from God by destroying that relationship with Him. However do you go through life and really believe that stealing a stick of gum/candy as a child is just as severe as murdering a child? Of course not. That is not what God taught us either. For example, Adam and Eve ate fruit from a tree and got kicked out of the Garden of Eden, correct? Yet, their son Caine murdered Abel... did God punish the entire human race again for that sin? No. Therefore, there must be a degree of severity involved in this judgement, after all, the parents just ate a piece of fruit yet, Caine murdered his brother. One put the effects of original sin upon us, one banished Caine from his parents. Both acts were disobedience to God's Will, defined as "sin." Yet, because of the consequences after, clearly the eating of the fruit was the worst of the offenses.

Take care,
For one your taking it out of context, read it for what it says not what you think its saying.

And two the reason that adam and eve were punished in such a way was they introduced sin into the world then they lied about it to god and so their punishment was being kicked out of the garden. This is because they were no longer pure thus neither was their offspring.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:43 AM   #24
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Defense of the Sacrament of Confession #3

Whetstone,

The Catechism of the Catholic Church has both "dogmas" and "doctrines" in it. ("Dogmas" are those mysteries that Christ Himself handed down to the apostles that are not to be changed by man. Examples: Three Divine Persons in One God, Christ is truly present in the Most Blessed Sacrament, etc.) We don't necessarily understand them BUT WE KNOW THAT CHRIST TAUGHT THESE TRUTHS TO THE APOSTLES WHO PASSED THEM DOWN TO THEIR SUCCESSORS. ("Doctrines" are those teachings that come from interpretation of the Bible, writings of early Church Fathers, writings of the saints, and reason. These can change.)

The catechism can be very wordy, but it generally is to the point. Using reason, we can look at how the Church has "developed/grown" over time, the good and the bad. We can use reason to see human history attacking the Church and its teachings and how typical reactions tend to show what is historically accurate. For example, the Catechism teaches us:

"It is therefore Catholic doctrine that the Church from the earliest times believed in the power to forgive sins as granted by Christ to the Apostles. Such a belief in fact was clearly inculcated by the words with which Christ granted the power, and it would have been inexplicable to the early Christians if any one who professed faith in Christ had questioned the existence of that power in the Church. But if, contrariwise, we suppose that no such belief existed from the beginning, we encounter a still greater difficulty: the first mention of that power would have been regarded as an innovation both needless and intolerable; it would have shown little practical wisdom on the part of those who were endeavouring to draw men to Christ; and it would have raised a protest or led to a schism which would certainly have gone on record as plainly at least as did early divisions on matters of less importance. But no such record is found; even those who sought to limit the power itself presupposed its existence, and their very attempt at limitation put them in opposition to the prevalent Catholic belief."

In simple words, there would be a history of not having confession throughout the past 2,000 years if there were no confession at the beginning. If it came along as just an "institution of man" by the Church, it would have probably formed a schism and there would have been a lot of "fall out" over it.

Take care,
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:07 AM   #25
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Defense of the Sacrament of Confession #4

Some of you guys have suggested that "all sin is equal." Well, it isn't and I have found some examples in the Bible and use simple reason to show it. Why is this so important? An awareness of venial sins (explained later) makes you fight mortal sin all the more. If all sin is equal, than you can justify murdering a child AS EQUAL TO a child stealing a stick of gum. If you understand that all sin is bad, but some are worse than others, you have an "ongoing awareness" of your actions. How did you do today? Did you do your best to love your fellow man or did you slack off and put yourself first?

I have already gone over Adam and Eve, Caine and Abel, so I will not do it again. In the New Testament, it is said in more than one place that "all sins are to be forgiven" but Christ said something else. He said, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven either in this world nor the next. (Matt 12:31-32) so even though His Sacrifice on the cross atoned for every sin, that sin will not be forgiven. A simple implied degree of severity to that sin compared to all others by the "end results of committing that particular sin." We know that if Christ doesn't forgive us, then we go to hell. We lose salvation.

St. John the Evangelist wrote, "All wrongdoing is sin, but there is a sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that." (1John 5:16) St. John was talking about praying for sinners to take away the sin BUT HE CHANGED HIS SPEECH REGARDING CERTAIN DEADLY SINS. He is saying praying for the sinner will not take away that sin. Therefore the sinner must do something else. The history of the Catholic Church shows confession to a priest has the power to forgive the sin BECAUSE THAT AUTHORITY CAME FROM CHRIST HIMSELF.

The Catholic Church has taught that "venial sin" is the small sins and "mortal sins" are the deadly ones. I would rather know I am forgiven by going to confession and partaking of the beautiful sacrament that Christ Himself instituted through His Church, rather than not. We are all answerable to Christ in the end. He instituted a Church. He instituted the sacraments. He never said His Church would be perfect, as matter of fact, He said just the opposite. Christ said that when He returns, He will have to seperate the goats from the sheep in His own house. He also said that when He returns, that His bride (the Church) will be dazzling white... implying that it isn't pure before it is made dazzling white. The Catholic Church isn't perfect... it isn't, but it will be, one day.

Take care,
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Old 10-18-2012, 06:40 AM   #26
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I think this is a great question, and I respect all viewpoints and beliefs. I've read most of the posts, and they have made me consider my own faith. I read a bumper sticker the other day stating that you can't believe in abortion and be Catholic at the same time. It made me wonder how many of us really have full, 100% faith in our professed religion. That answer is in your own heart.

My view won't be popular, and according to some I am probably on the fast track to Hell. I was raised Catholic but I am no longer. I stopped having faith in that a long time ago. I believe fully in the Ten Commandments but only some of the Holy Sacraments. That knocks out being Catholic. I don't believe I need to be taught what I should believe. My relationship with God and Christ is just that - mine.

I'm not a huge reader of the Bible, but I feel it teaches me how I should live my life. The Koran has similar stories, as does the Old Testament, which is the same as the Torah, in my understanding. Like I said, I'm not a student of the Bible, but I know that the New Testament is what distinguishes us as Christians. The interpretations of the New Testament is what distinguishes us as different religions, right?

I won't tell someone what to believe, nor will I fault them for it. I think that, in general, we all want to be close to our God and want to live the way He has taught us to live. How we get there is our personal choice. I respect the fellowship of faith and worshipping together, but organized religion is not for me. Like I said, some may see me going straight to Hell, and I'm ok with that.

Now that I've taken the Family Circus route to the original question, what's up with sin? If I have sinned, I have broken my promise to God. Period. I believe He will forgive me if I am truly remorseful and change my ways. Will I forgive myself? That's debatable. Some things yes, others...not so much. Being able to justify a sin doesn't lessen the sin itself. If I take a life in self defense, I have still taken a life. How I reconcile that with God is what matters to me. Unfortunately, I don't think that's taught in the Bible. I can't live my life by what others have told me I should believe if that isn't what is truly in my heart. To me, that's living a lie, and I promised not to do that. I strive to keep my promises to God, and I feel I'm truly remorseful when I sin, but only God will know if I'm as remorseful as I think I am. He knows my heart better than I do. I don't know where that falls on the religion scale, but it's what I believe.
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:49 PM   #27
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1SAS,
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I'm no biblical scholar by any stretch of the imagination, that's why I asked . I grew up Protestant, so my views are obviously shaped by their teachings. I'm always open to another point of view, whether I agree with all, some, or none of it, and you've definately given me something occupy my studies for awhile...
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Old 10-18-2012, 04:27 PM   #28
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Ive been doing a lot of reading lately and I happened to see this that caught my eye.I know there are a lot of catholics on here and I know the religion teaches that you have to go to a priest and confess your sins,Im pretty sure of that.What your take on this quote.Again,not questioning anyones religion,just trying to learn

Again, the concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture. We are to confess our sins to God (1 John 1:9). As New Covenant believers, we do not need mediators between us and God. We can go to God directly because of Jesus’ sacrifice for us. First Timothy 2:5 says, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:35 PM   #29
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1jeeplvr,

In post #20 above I list more than one "biblical reference" to confessing our sins to a priest. Also, try to remember, the Catholic Church was started by Christ. The Bible was put together by the Catholic Church at the Council of Hippo in 397AD. (The four gospels were written BEFORE the Council of Hippo, but there were 7 gospels all together... three were rejected by the Church as being "not of God.")

If you want to only use the Bible as a source of reference, then you are relying on your own interpretation of God's Words... kind of like you are your own church. If instead, you use the Bible, the tradition of the early Church and the catechism of the Catholic Church, you get a much more consistent belief and interpretation than personal interpretation. Why?

Well, look at how liberals interpret the U.S. Constitution... particularly the Second Amendment. They "personally interpret" the 2nd Amendment to mean the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Founding Fathers intentions and writings. But how do we know that? If you are interpreting the Constitution to mean whatever you want it to mean, than arguing it is useless. (Last time I checked, English was a pretty consistent language with consistent meanings.) But if you look at what the Founding Fathers wrote BESIDES THE CONSTITUTION or if you look at how it was interpreted and acted upon by the early colonists, than you can see if your interpretation is consistent with the originators of that document. It is not difficult to do... it only takes the desire to find out the truth in its fullness and not take a "luke warm" approach to the truth.

"The Federalist Papers" used to be required reading in my Catholic High School but it isn't taught anymore, rarely even in college. This book contains the original arguments three of our Founding Fathers (Hamilton, Jay and Madison) wrote to colonial newspapers to debate why this is in the Constitution and why this isn't. They explained every single part of the Constitution in a very reasonable manner. The essays were used to convince the colonists that we needed this document and it needed to be ratified. So if one were truly looking for the truth (in regards to the Constitution) it is available.

Of course, you don't need to use "The Federalist Papers" to explain the Constitution... all you have to do is to look at the words used throughout the document and see how they were interpreted by the colonists WHO LIVED BY THEM AND DIED BY THEM.

So there is a biblical reference to the Sacrament of Confession (Officially it is called "Reconciliation"), there are historic reasons to believe the early Church used this sacrament to heal many people of their sins and the use of reason alone would show us confession was there at the beginning of Christ's ministry to mankind. There is also proof that at no time in the Church's history did anyone want to give up confession until after Martin Luther broke away from the Church and began his version of the Faith, which was never present in all the years preceding his departure. I am looking at 2,000 years of Church history and teachings while many only look at the past 100 years and pretend that is when Christ started His Church.

One more final point, I only want to help those who have questions. Your questions aren't going to offend me. Attacks will, of course, but if any of you have a question or problem with the Catholic Faith or the Church, just ask. I will do my best to answer them, just please don't be afraid to ask. The Church has done some pretty whacko things over the past 2,000 years, but it has also done pretty amazing things... The House of God, with goats and sheep in it until Christ Himself comes and sorts them out.

Take care,
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:44 PM   #30
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1SAS

Thanks for the clearification.Where i can def see the points & the proof of what is said in the bible I have talked to my Mom about this(born again) and she has valid points also.Where as she sates that as a person,human we should be talking to God directly and when we are born again that gives us a stronger relationship with God,to do this.Im sure Ill get some quotes from the bible from her on that shortly.I think this where a lot of confusion comes from,different religious beliefs.Just trying to learn here.Thanks

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