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Old 05-18-2009, 11:23 AM   #1
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File under too strange to be true but it is…


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Old 05-18-2009, 11:29 AM   #2
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holy crap, oh my gosh, oh no!!!!!!


what the hell is the big deal? my biggest problem is God is the only thing this country is trying to make not allowed! anything else on there, no one would've cared. if it was naked women, everyone would just giggle.

has anyone paid any attention to the current administration?????

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Old 05-18-2009, 11:42 AM   #3
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Not really, but I now know where the uber-secret VP bunker is - straight from Biden.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:22 PM   #4
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I must have missed something...
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:29 PM   #5
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I must have missed something...
possibly so
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:43 PM   #6
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Where's Janine Gerafolo? She can tell us the meaning behind this.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:52 PM   #7
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I can tell you the meaning behind this. The general explanation can be found under the term Christian Identity Movement. The goal is to abuse a classic religious text and undermine the principles this country is founded on. The goal is to replace the concepts of republic and democracy with theocracy. It is anti-American. It is anti-Christian.

It would seem any serious Christian would find these documents a complete mockery of their religion.
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Old 05-18-2009, 02:52 PM   #8
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I fail to see the problem.
I do think the hardcore bible thumpers make it difficult to solidify the conservative movement but the constant attack on Christianity by the leftists and their media allies is far more disturbing than the inclusion of bible quotes in briefings meant to be seen only by a small group.



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Benjamin Franklin: “In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:19 PM   #9
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When leaders who are making decisions like this are actively engaged in this sort of magical thinking it bothers me because it gives them a deluded sense that they are less likely to fail. It becomes much easier to believe your success is secured if you believe there is a deity on you side. If I remember right Rumsfeld started this out with some peculiar ideas about how long and how many troops would be required.
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:24 PM   #10
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Rumsfeld should be water-boarded!
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:49 PM   #11
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Rumsfeld should be water-boarded!
He probably pays for the service.

Still, the idea that we (America) are God’s chosen as the Jewish tribes is just whacko. It is pervasive with the protestants, but separation of church and state, hello.
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:58 PM   #12
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I'm sure it was for inspiration only. Something to lift spirits to those it was given to.
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:27 PM   #13
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If one were at work passing around memos, they would be spoken to about the appropriateness of adding bible verses to them. It would not be allowed and could be offensive to some.

I find it laughable these verses would added to military documents just like I found it laughable when the football team would pray to God to allow them a victory. I very much doubt he's on either side. War fought in His name is a fool's war without a cause.
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:35 PM   #14
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I don't think it was fought in "His" name.............. and I believe Alla's name came up a few time though.
He (god) is used for internal strength not to decide a victor.
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:55 PM   #15
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Still, the idea that we (America) are God’s chosen as the Jewish tribes is just whacko. It is pervasive with the protestants, but separation of church and state, hello.
where the heck did you come up with that??? was there another page or something?
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Old 05-18-2009, 05:23 PM   #16
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I guess ol George and Donnie should have checked with you on what their briefings should look like...
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:18 PM   #17
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I guess they should have checked a map and then the constitution to see what country they were in.
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:43 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by 4point View Post
I don't think it was fought in "His" name.............. and I believe Alla's name came up a few time though.
He (god) is used for internal strength not to decide a victor.
Tit for tat is a dangerous game to play. And I was witness to many a coach's speech at the beginning of a game, God's name was invoked for victory on more than one occasion, especially against Marquette.
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:49 PM   #19
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I guess they should have checked a map and then the constitution to see what country they were in.
Maybe they did, and figured they had the freedom to communicate with each other as they saw fit.
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiterboy View Post
I guess they should have checked a map and then the constitution to see what country they were in.
Belief in a god is nothing new in this country. Ridiculing those that have such a belief is the new(and in my opinion, repulsive) thing.
Separation of church and state is not in the Constitution and never meant what you insinuate.
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:43 PM   #21
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our country was founded by men and women that fled england to worship their God how their ancestors did. they fled england becuase england decided to come up with their own variation of Christianity to fit their idea of happiness. the puritans founded this country to worship God the way their religion taught for hundreds of years, bottom line.

and yes i said puritans, although pilgrims is the politically correct term.

and now our country has swung in the total opposite direction, where everything is ok, accept God. bad idea.

and dare, i like your comment.
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:06 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by jpdocdave View Post
and now our country has swung in the total opposite direction, where everything is ok, accept God. bad idea.
You have a relatively small percentage of the population that are not believers.

The separation of church and state is in the first amendment.
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:07 PM   #23
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Quote it.
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:15 PM   #24
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I think he meant it's in GQ. THE most trusted source for political debate.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Rumsfeld fan, but publishing something like that is just stupid.
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:27 PM   #25
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I can never join Calvin in addressing his god. He was indeed an Atheist, which I can never be; or rather his religion was Dæmonism. If ever man worshipped a false god, he did. The being described in his 5. points is not the God whom you and I acknolege and adore, the Creator and benevolent governor of the world; but a dæmon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in no god at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious attributes of Calvin. Indeed I think that every Christian sect gives a great handle to Atheism by their general dogma that, without a revelation, there would not be sufficient proof of the being of a god.
I wonder why Jefferson was so against Calvin?
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The core of Calvinism is the Zwinglian insistence on the literal reading of Christian scriptures. Anything not contained explicitly and literally in these scriptures was to be rejected; on the other hand, anything that was contained explicitly and literally in these scriptures was to be followed unwaveringly. It is the latter point that Calvin developed beyond Zwingli's model; not only should all religious belief be founded on the literal reading of Scriptures, but church organization, political organization, and society itself should be founded on this literal reading.
I think that if you read you will find that the great minds that founded our country were rightly afraid of the abuse of religion that you find rampant within protestantism today and within the previous administration.

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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Now as you literally parse this language, consider the body or precedent that also informs the interpretation and consider how a literal reading would find the current practice of tax exempt status for organized religion, much less directing tax money into religious organizations.
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:31 PM   #26
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So, you can't quote it?
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:36 PM   #27
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I quoted the first amendment, which I assume is what you asked for. Can you define the role of Calvin in the history of your own religion? Or explain why Jefferson spoke out against his teachings?
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:38 PM   #28
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You assumed incorrectly. I will clarify. Quote your original point which was to say that the first amendment separated church and state in some way.
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:40 PM   #29
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i like the 9th amendment also

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The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
so freedom of religion=seperation of church and state?
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:47 PM   #30
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You assumed incorrectly. I will clarify. Quote your original point which was to say that the first amendment separated church and state in some way.
It is not “my” assumption. That rhetoric has been a part of the discourse for a very long time. You may take issue with it, but the meaning is clear, and a semantic digression does little to address the precedent I mention. Your desire to reject the popular language used to frame the debate has no relation to the the various Supreme Court rulings that have defined what was meant in the first amendment language. If a person only protests to the weakening of constitutional law when offends their own narrow beliefs they are not truly concerned with the law but with an activist agenda. That is obvious.

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