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Old 12-26-2012, 05:08 PM   #301
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Sometimes arsonists use matches and gasoline to intentionally set fires to kill people. So maybe we need to ban the sale of matches, lighters, and gas or at least limit how much can be sold or register the users into a data base. Wait, would that be another false equilivilecy?
Yes, another false equivalency. How many mass murders have been carried out by arsonists in the last couple years? Read my original post... when the predominant method of commiting mass murder in the United States is something other than a firearm, bring it up in this discussion as something to consider imposing commonsense controls over or banning. Until then, bringing up hot dogs as something to ban because 15 people per year choke to death on them is just muddying the water.

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Old 12-26-2012, 05:09 PM   #302
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We have been killing eachother since time began. You cant outlaw any perticular item and expect it to change how we act as human beings. Even if you were to somehow magicly remove all guns from the world, we would just find something else to do the job. Mankind has been perfecting ways to kill since Cane to out Able. And as far as AK's and AR's go...removing them wouldnt make that big of an impact on the number of people killed each year. Accroding to the FBI more people are beaten to death (by hands and feet) than by people using rifles. See link below. Is the mass murder of 20+ people a tragedy? Yes it is, but banning the tool used to do it is not going to prevent it from happing again.

FBI — Table 20

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Old 12-26-2012, 05:49 PM   #303
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Yes, another false equivalency. How many mass murders have been carried out by arsonists in the last couple years? Read my original post... when the predominant method of commiting mass murder in the United States is something other than a firearm, bring it up in this discussion as something to consider imposing commonsense controls over or banning. Until then, bringing up hot dogs as something to ban because 15 people per year choke to death on them is just muddying the water.
Not sure why your stuck on the mass murder thing. The gun grabbers aren't since they've been after them for a long time for reasons totally unrelated to mass murder. Its just the newest convienience to reach the agenda goal. The point I'm trying to make which seems to be eluding you is, they dont give a flip if more children die from drowning or in car accidents than die from bullets. They know that guns are we the peoples best line of defense against a government that is hell bent on taking away our God given rights. Thats why they dont want us to have them. And this has been said over and over in this thread. That is what the 2A is about, and if you dont get that then go ahead and live as a sheep waiting to be sheared. I'll post this one more time and please tell me which part of it is unclear to you.



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Old 12-26-2012, 06:09 PM   #304
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FYI- All of these countries have strict gun control. See how well it works?

June, 2011: Derrick Bird shot twelve people to death and wounded eleven others in the northwestern county of Cumbria (England).

April 26, 2002: Gutenberg school, Erfurt, Germany. Fourteen teachers, two students and a policeman were killed

March 13 1996: Dunblane, Scotland. 16 kindergartners and their teacher were killed.

Mar 11, 2009: 15 dead, Albertville school in Winnenden, Germany.

November 20, 2006: Geschwister Scholl-Schule, Emsdetten, Germany. 11 dead.

Sept. 23, 2008, Finland: Student Matti Saari opened fire in a vocational school in Kauhajoki in northwestern Finland, killing nine other students and one male staff member before killing himself.

Sept. 27, 2001:: Zug, Switzerland, A man whose lawsuits had been denied murdered 14 members of a cantonal parliament.

Oct. 29, 2001: Tours, France, Four people were killed and ten wounded when a French railway worker started shooting at a busy intersection.

November 7, 2007: Pekka-Eric Auvinen, 18, shoots and kills eight people and himself at a high school in Tuusula, Finland.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:59 PM   #305
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FYI- All of these countries have strict gun control. See how well it works?

June, 2011: Derrick Bird shot twelve people to death and wounded eleven others in the northwestern county of Cumbria (England).

April 26, 2002: Gutenberg school, Erfurt, Germany. Fourteen teachers, two students and a policeman were killed

March 13 1996: Dunblane, Scotland. 16 kindergartners and their teacher were killed.

Mar 11, 2009: 15 dead, Albertville school in Winnenden, Germany.

November 20, 2006: Geschwister Scholl-Schule, Emsdetten, Germany. 11 dead.

Sept. 23, 2008, Finland: Student Matti Saari opened fire in a vocational school in Kauhajoki in northwestern Finland, killing nine other students and one male staff member before killing himself.

Sept. 27, 2001:: Zug, Switzerland, A man whose lawsuits had been denied murdered 14 members of a cantonal parliament.

Oct. 29, 2001: Tours, France, Four people were killed and ten wounded when a French railway worker started shooting at a busy intersection.

November 7, 2007: Pekka-Eric Auvinen, 18, shoots and kills eight people and himself at a high school in Tuusula, Finland.
Guns are 100% illegal in the Philippines yet my cousin that lives there has a m16 a2 service rifle with a grenade launcher that's his baby he also has a few ak47 and those over there are considered rebel weapons. Nothing can stop weapons just like drugs.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:25 PM   #306
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FYI- All of these countries have strict gun control. See how well it works?

June, 2011: Derrick Bird shot twelve people to death and wounded eleven others in the northwestern county of Cumbria (England).

April 26, 2002: Gutenberg school, Erfurt, Germany. Fourteen teachers, two students and a policeman were killed

March 13 1996: Dunblane, Scotland. 16 kindergartners and their teacher were killed.

Mar 11, 2009: 15 dead, Albertville school in Winnenden, Germany.

November 20, 2006: Geschwister Scholl-Schule, Emsdetten, Germany. 11 dead.

Sept. 23, 2008, Finland: Student Matti Saari opened fire in a vocational school in Kauhajoki in northwestern Finland, killing nine other students and one male staff member before killing himself.

Sept. 27, 2001:: Zug, Switzerland, A man whose lawsuits had been denied murdered 14 members of a cantonal parliament.

Oct. 29, 2001: Tours, France, Four people were killed and ten wounded when a French railway worker started shooting at a busy intersection.

November 7, 2007: Pekka-Eric Auvinen, 18, shoots and kills eight people and himself at a high school in Tuusula, Finland.
Nine mass shootings since 2001? Amateurs. We have that many every year. We're Number 1! <makes woofing sound and pumps fist>

But of course looser gun control laws have nothing to do with that.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:35 PM   #307
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Guns are 100% illegal in the Philippines yet my cousin that lives there has a m16 a2 service rifle with a grenade launcher that's his baby he also has a few ak47 and those over there are considered rebel weapons. Nothing can stop weapons just like drugs.
Yea man. Lets all jump on the plane to the Philippines. So nothing can stop guns? What a sad place we are becoming.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:45 PM   #308
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To use your line of non-logic, why don't we ban the influenza virus, too?

Try getting box cutters and other edge weapons on planes.
Of course we've never seen any stories of people getting past security with weapons up to and including firearms. Seriously?
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:48 PM   #309
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Nine mass shootings since 2001? Amateurs. We have that many every year. We're Number 1! <makes woofing sound and pumps fist>

But of course looser gun control laws have nothing to do with that.
Here are some murder that has to do with gun control.

Attachment 190918

Page 1 there's more
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:49 PM   #310
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Not sure why your stuck on the mass murder thing. The gun grabbers aren't since they've been after them for a long time for reasons totally unrelated to mass murder. Its just the newest convienience to reach the agenda goal. The point I'm trying to make which seems to be eluding you is, they dont give a flip if more children die from drowning or in car accidents than die from bullets. They know that guns are we the peoples best line of defense against a government that is hell bent on taking away our God given rights. Thats why they dont want us to have them. And this has been said over and over in this thread. That is what the 2A is about, and if you dont get that then go ahead and live as a sheep waiting to be sheared. I'll post this one more time and please tell me which part of it is unclear to you.
God given right? Who's taken what away? Sheep being sheared? It's these beliefs that are the core to the problem.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:51 PM   #311
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Nine mass shootings since 2001? Amateurs. We have that many every year. We're Number 1! <makes woofing sound and pumps fist>

But of course looser gun control laws have nothing to do with that.


Attachment 190919

Pretty sure there are more but was under a million dead so want them in the million killer club
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:24 PM   #312
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God given right? Who's taken what away? Sheep being sheared? It's these beliefs that are the core to the problem.
The belief in the FACT that the Founders understood the Bill of Rights were God given and not government granted ... is the core of the problem?? Really?? Oh man, we ARE in deep doodoo.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:28 PM   #313
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It's these beliefs that are the core to the problem.
Believe what you want, but if and when the time comes, we'll use you as a sand bag.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:28 PM   #314
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Nine mass shootings since 2001? Amateurs. We have that many every year. We're Number 1! <makes woofing sound and pumps fist>

But of course looser gun control laws have nothing to do with that.
I didn't list them all. I tried to keep it to only school shootings. We appear to be slackers there.

Care to list more than nine that have happened here in a year, as you say have happened?

Then again, we're pikers when it come to mass shootings when it comes to Norway.

The 2011 Norway attacks were two sequential lone wolf terrorist attacks against the government, the civilian population and a Workers' Youth League (AUF)-run summer camp in Norway on 22 July 2011, claiming a total of 92 lives

I've got others, from Russia, Slovakia, Croatia, Italy, and many more. Like this one from last year. Good thing grenades are also illegal!

13 December 2011: 33-year-old Nordine Amrani, threw hand grenades and opened fire on a square bustling with Christmas shoppers in the centre of the Belgian city of Liège, killing five people, including himself, and wounding at least 122, some critically.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:35 PM   #315
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Attachment 190919

Pretty sure there are more but was under a million dead so want them in the million killer club
Ditchdoc, your facts are sobering to say the least. In my opinion, that reason is exactly why the founders wrote the 2nd amendment.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:36 PM   #316
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March 11, 2005.
A man named Brian Nichols (200lb 6'2", mid 30s) is on the court docket for rape in the big Atlanta Courthouse. He is accused of breaking into his exgfs house, holding her at gunpoint, duct taping her, beating her, then raping her. It is a retrial, and if convicted he will serve life. 2 days before, returning to jail from the courthouse, he is found to have shanks hidden in his shoes - prompting Judge Rowland Barnes to request increased security. Shortly before his trial begins, Nichols overpowers a 16 year veteran deputy, Cynthia Hall, whom he hospitalized with severe head trauma. He then took her sidearm and proceeded (after holding several others at gunpoint and overpowering another deputy trying to stop him, then handcuffing them) into the courtroom, where he fired upon and killed Judge Barnes (a sitting judge from 98 who was generally liked by all, and whose most notable sitting was the Danny Heatley case) and court stenographer Julie Brandau (who Judge Barnes had written a local paper to brag about, particularly the peach bread she made and brought for Atlantas jurors). He then fled the courthouse and was pursued by 19 year sherrifs deputy Hoyt Teasley, whom Nichols also shot and killed, this time in the street in front of the courthouse. He then pistol whipped AJC feature writer Don O'Briant and stole his Honda, drove it to the bottom of the parking deck and somehow left the scene. He then went to an Atlanta area (Duluth) apartment complex, where he shot and killed a federal agent. Next he forced himself into the apartment of Ashley Smith, a meth-head who was held hostage for aprox 7 hrs (in her defense, her husband had been stabbed to death and she prayed with Nichols, did drugs with him, then convinced him to surrender to PD). After she called the police the next day, Nichols surrendered and was charged with 54 crimes, including 4 murders.

Fast forward a bit - Jan 2007, despite delaying pleas from the defense his trial will be held at the Atlanta Courthouse. Judge Hillton Fuller is set to preside. Juror selection begins.

Feb 2007 - juror selection is halted. The GA public defender fund has been emptied, so he is not able to have a defense attorney.

Nov 2007 - Atlantas DA files an injunction with the State Supreme Court to resume jury selection. It does - and 14 days later is halted, from lack of funds, for the 5th time. Judge Fuller decrees no further action will be taken until his defense fund is established.

Jan 15 2008 - the Fulton County Commission sets aside 125,000$, specifically for mental evaluation of Nichols, who has pled Not Guilty to all counts by terms of insanity.

Jan 30 2008 - Judge Fuller is excused after a local paper quotes him saying "Everyone in the world knows he did it". Which is a very, very true statement.

April 2008 - Superior Court Judge Jim Bodiford is now set to preside, and decrees the juror selection will resume in July where it left off before funding issues. The defense responds with a motion to recuse, as Judge Bodiford was friends with one of the many year courthouse assigned deputies killed, as well as Judge Barnes. The motion is denied.

June 2008 - the prosecution begins their own evaluation of Nichols physcological state. This is the 2nd time GA taxpayers evaluated this, once for his defense, again for prosecution.

July 10 2008 - Juror selection resumes.

Sep 22 2008 - Three and a half years after shooting 3 people on camera in front of dozens of witnesses, many of whom are sworn peace officers and officers of the court, the trial of Brian Nichols starts. He is charged with 54 counts. There are over 600 witnesses set to testify against Nichols.

Nov 7 2008 - Nichols is found guilty on all 54 counts. They deliberated aprox 12 hrs.

Dec 12 2008 - Nichols is sentenced to life in prison, failing a capital punishment vote by a vote of 9 to execute, 3 not.

What is the moral of the story? His Constitutional Right of a "speedy" trial and jury of his peers. It cost GA hundreds of thousands of dollars to prove what we already knew. Because he had a Right for us to.

Stupid? Yes. Constitutional? Yes.

P.s. - the courthouse was a gun free zone, where good guys who trained with them carried them, and bad guys from jail did not do either. It did not make any difference to Judge Rowland Barnes, Julie Brandau, and Hoyt Teasley that we had gun laws there. Criminals commit criminal acts, but the Constitution is much more important than that. It transcends generations.

Those that think the Bill of Rights is not guranteed protection of individuals from government control, or that the 2nd does not mean I can own an M4, let alone an AR, should reread this thread, or US History. You have the best of intentions, and the worst of impressions and interpritation.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:41 PM   #317
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All I got to say about this bull shit is. We don't blame cars for drunk drivers, why do we blame guns for crazy people?
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:44 PM   #318
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You guys who are screaming for more gun control are cracking me up. You want more gun control for one simple reason (hint...it has NOTHING to do with lives lost)...YOU DON'T HAVE ANY COOL WEAPONS!

You say "There's no reason why you should have a military-type rifle, a simple hunting rifle should suffice."
I say "There's no reason why you should have a cool, lifted Jeep, a simple Honda Civic should suffice."

You say "Why do you need a hi-cap magazine? Those are stupid, you don't need that."
I say "Why do you need a 50" LED television? Those are stupid, you don't need that."

You say "Semi-auto weapons are unnecessary, bolt action or pump action rifles are fine"
I say "Why do you have a smartphone? Sending messages by carrier pigeons is fine."

You guys are so Hell-bent on taking our luxuries away from us BECAUSE YOU DON'T SHARE THE SAME FIREARM ENTHUSIASMS WITH US.


I've always found it mildly amusing that Democrats will fight and fight to retain their right to kill a fetus, but condemn those of us who enjoy shooting weapons. Twisted world, this is.

For the record, AR and AK sales have hit an all-time high since the Conn. shooting. I get a kick out of that little tidbit of information. According to my local gunshop owner, Democrats have been the best thing to happen to weapons-sales since 2008. With all their pomp and circumstance about how they're going to jump-start their "War on Guns", they've effectively put more weapons in civilians' hands than EVER before. That makes me warm and fuzzy on the inside.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:48 PM   #319
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You guys who are screaming for more gun control are cracking me up. You want more gun control for one simple reason (hint...it has NOTHING to do with lives lost)...YOU DON'T HAVE ANY COOL WEAPONS!

You say "There's no reason why you should have a military-type rifle, a simple hunting rifle should suffice."
I say "There's no reason why you should have a cool, lifted Jeep, a simple Honda Civic should suffice."

You say "Why do you need a hi-cap magazine? Those are stupid, you don't need that."
I say "Why do you need a 50" LED television? Those are stupid, you don't need that."

You say "Semi-auto weapons are unnecessary, bolt action or pump action rifles are fine"
I say "Why do you have a smartphone? Sending messages by carrier pigeons is fine."

You guys are so Hell-bent on taking our luxuries away from us BECAUSE YOU DON'T SHARE THE SAME FIREARM ENTHUSIASMS WITH US.


I've always found it mildly amusing that Democrats will fight and fight to retain their right to kill a fetus, but condemn those of us who enjoy shooting weapons. Twisted world, this is.

For the record, AR and AK sales have hit an all-time high since the Conn. shooting. I get a kick out of that little tidbit of information. According to my local gunshop owner, Democrats have been the best thing to happen to weapons-sales since 2008. With all their pomp and circumstance about how they're going to jump-start their "War on Guns", they've effectively put more weapons in civilians' hands than EVER before. That makes me warm and fuzzy on the inside.

Amen.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:50 PM   #320
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Okay...high magazine capacity weapons. Whatever. So what does AR stand for?
AR 15 stands for Arma Lite.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:52 PM   #321
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I haven't verified, but I just read in the other gun thread that CT has some pretty tight restrictions in place now. I'd like to see someone come up with a solution to school shootings that isn't just a knee-jerk "lets ban pistol grips and hi cap magazines" that accomplishes nothing other than to disarm law abiding citizens
How about a resource officer in every school
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:53 PM   #322
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Don't you find it kind of amusing. Every mass shooting is where guns are illegal. Government buildings and schools. But than places that have a lot of guns there are never mass shootings. NRA meetings and guns shows. Food for thought
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:11 PM   #323
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Don't you find it kind of amusing. Every mass shooting is where guns are illegal. Government buildings and schools. But than places that have a lot of guns there are never mass shootings. NRA meetings and guns shows. Food for thought
I would consider the Atlanta Courthouse shooting a mass shooting, and it happened with armed gaurds present. Actually, it was a govt issued Glock that did the shooting.

Food for thought, lol.

But yes, though I kid it is govt buildings that typically get shot. Cart before the horse, imo, b/c the shooters are targeting individuals or particular types of people found in the location of their shootings.

It is my experience that the places that shootings happen, on the larger theatre, are places that are not gun friendly anyway. Littleton CO, Denver, Portland, Newtown... none of these places have "lax" gun laws. Yet individuals in these communities felt a compulsatory need to even the score, with those most vile weapons. As I said in another thread (and TBH I may have said it in here), these are people that feel alienated by society, and when they reach the point at which they can see no further assimilation with this society, they lash out in the only way they see. A mass shooting. It puts the fear into society that you do not know if your normal, ordinary kid or family member will ever come home again after their normal, ordinary day. It is the only vengence they can achieve, as they see it anyway. It is bred not only from a culture of bullying and general violence, but also from our culture of war and our lack of knowledge about our neighbors and kids.

200 years ago or 40 years ago it was the same. You knew your neighbor, his family, his habits, and you knew them well. You grew up with the schoolteacher. The butcher, baker, and the candlestick maker. The police chief. Now, we don't know these people. We don't know the parents of your childrens friends. We move constantly, we are more transient than ever before (which is saying something, fyi). We go go go. We are so self obsorbed with our materials and jobs and desires or retirements that we accept this. It is a foolish thing to do enmass.

Hilarious post cavediver.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:19 PM   #324
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Don't you find it kind of amusing. Every mass shooting is where guns are illegal. Government buildings and schools. But than places that have a lot of guns there are never mass shootings. NRA meetings and guns shows. Food for thought
What's your guys thoughts on the recent shooting of the four firemen where two died?
Me, I believe this is a failure of the state this guy killed his own grandmother with a hammer.
The state failed to keep this guy locked up then blames civil liberties for their failure.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:41 PM   #325
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What's your guys thoughts on the recent shooting of the four firemen where two died?
Sh*t happens

Especially when 300 million people are living on top of each other.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:45 PM   #326
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Sh*t happens

Especially when 300 million people are living on top of each other.
I think that's part of the problem. To many damn people in the world.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:54 PM   #327
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I think that's part of the problem. To many damn people in the world.
I blame ANSI warning labels for that.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:15 AM   #328
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But, of course, the problem is too many guns. Here is proof positive of a gun free Utopia!! We Americans are so barbaric wanting to cling to our bibles and guns.

http://youtu.be/wgvyUOKZ9Bc
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:25 AM   #329
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For the later I think it would be more sporting to hunt with bows or if the animals could shoot back would also make it more of a challenge.
But you see...outside of the woods, the animals DO shoot back.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:28 AM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megafriday View Post
Yes, another false equivalency. How many mass murders have been carried out by arsonists in the last couple years? Read my original post... when the predominant method of commiting mass murder in the United States is something other than a firearm, bring it up in this discussion as something to consider imposing commonsense controls over or banning. Until then, bringing up hot dogs as something to ban because 15 people per year choke to death on them is just muddying the water.
Let's take a look at what's happening in the UK. They have banned and confiscated firearms. This is what they've got now:

BBC NEWS | Health | Doctors' kitchen knives ban call


Open you eyes and open your mind. It's amazing what you may learn. Growing up I always thought that it was the conservatives who were closed minded and unwillingly to learn. That may have been true at one time, but now it seems that the left is actually believing their own BS.

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