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Old 12-27-2012, 07:37 AM   #331
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I was shooting the FN SCAR the other day, it was awesome.

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Old 12-27-2012, 09:40 AM   #332
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Let's take a look at what's happening in the UK. They have banned and confiscated firearms. This is what they've got now:

BBC NEWS | Health | Doctors' kitchen knives ban call


Open you eyes and open your mind. It's amazing what you may learn. Growing up I always thought that it was the conservatives who were closed minded and unwillingly to learn. That may have been true at one time, but now it seems that the left is actually believing their own BS.
Thanks for the suggestion of opening my eyes. I did and learned that in your eagerness to label someone a liberal, you apparently did not read the article you referenced. So, this interest group has been trying since 2005 to ban/restrict kitchen knives in the UK and... nothing has happened. The "Government Response" paragraph in that article strongly implies that there's enough restrictions on knives presently and further restrictions would be impractical. There's a big difference between an interest group pushing an agenda and a government actually acting on that agenda. The same will be true with the gun control debate here in the US.

When you find an article stating "UK Parliment Bans Kitchen Knives", post it.

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Old 12-27-2012, 10:00 AM   #333
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When you find an article stating "UK Parliment Bans Kitchen Knives", post it.
I think you miss the point. There will always be someone who thinks their idea is better that everybody elses.

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Old 12-27-2012, 10:04 AM   #334
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I think you miss the point. There will always be someone who thinks their idea is better that everybody elses.

He who farts loudest, makes the biggest stink.
Not always true. Some of the worst are the silent killers.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:23 AM   #335
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If they did take away assault rifles its not gonna change anything. People will still get them and will continue to do shootings. If not they will just use a shot gun like they have done in the past. Me personaly I think a shot gun is worse then a assault rifle. People hear the word "assault rifle" and automatically think its some big hard core super deadly kill everything and everyone machine gun but all it is is a gun that holds more then 10 rounds of ammo. Take em away and all you gotta do is reload more! I got 12gags. That would do more damage then someones "assault rifle" and I got just regular rifles that would do more damage. Like I said all you gotta do is reload....
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:29 AM   #336
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Part of my conspiracy theory is that these mental people were in a reclusive atmosphere and glued to smart tvs. Having subliminal messages sent to them through high definition. Causing them to easily be influenced to do the deeds of the establishment that wants total control of the masses.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:31 AM   #337
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If they did take away assault rifles its not gonna change anything. People will still get them and will continue to do shootings. If not they will just use a shot gun like they have done in the past. Me personaly I think a shot gun is worse then a assault rifle. People hear the word "assault rifle" and automatically think its some big hard core super deadly kill everything and everyone machine gun but all it is is a gun that holds more then 10 rounds of ammo. Take em away and all you gotta do is reload more! I got 12gags. That would do more damage then someones "assault rifle" and I got just regular rifles that would do more damage. Like I said all you gotta do is reload....
Virginia Tech is still the deadliest shooting in the US by a single person and he didn't use any assault rifles with high capacity clips or barrel shrouds...you know...the things on the shoulder that go up. He only used two handguns (15 and 10 capacities) and 19 magazines in his backpack.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:38 AM   #338
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Virginia Tech is still the deadliest shooting in the US by a single person and he didn't use any assault rifles with high capacity clips or barrel shrouds...you know...the things on the shoulder that go up. He only used two handguns (15 and 10 capacities) and 19 magazines in his backpack.
You don't even need guns to do a mass killing. All anyone needs to do is mix up a bunch of fertilizer and other chemicals and you could make a bomb like that guy did a long time ago with that truck under that building or something like that. So they could even take guns away completely and It wont stop mass killings. You could do a mass killing with something simple as a gallon of gas and a match.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:41 AM   #339
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:44 AM   #340
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I don't get it. Explane that to me!
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:45 AM   #341
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Just the super smart intelligent people that represent us in their infinite wisdom. Whats sad is that there are actually people just as "smart" that vote for these people.

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Old 12-27-2012, 10:51 AM   #342
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When does our rights kick in. You can say all damn day that the second amendment was written many moons ago. Well all of them were written many moons ago. So do we start taking first ameendt rights away. Oh, too late for that. That's already happening. What about fourth amendment? Look at what is happening in Paragould, Arkansas. Illegal search and seizure? Where does it start and stop?
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:55 AM   #343
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When does our rights kick in. You can say all damn day that the second amendment was written many moons ago. Well all of them were written many moons ago. So do we start taking first ameendt rights away. Oh, too late for that. That's already happening. What about fourth amendment? Look at what is happening in Paragould, Arkansas. Illegal search and seizure? Where does it start and stop?
The problem with the amendments is they can be changed
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:20 AM   #344
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Two Cautionary tales of gun control:

Joyce Lee Malcolm: Two Cautionary Tales of Gun Control - WSJ.com


Gun violence has doubled in Britian since the Firearms Act of 1998, and then there are incidents like this very recent one:

SAS hero Sgt Danny Nightingale could be released today - Telegraph
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:44 AM   #345
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:45 AM   #346
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The problem with the amendments is they can be changed
The first ten, the Bill of Rights, should NOT be changed since they are considered natural rights. They are not unalienable since they can be qualified. For example the 2a wouldnt apply to a felon.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:45 AM   #347
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Long but excellent article about why we don't need more laws.

An opinion on gun control « Monster Hunter Nation

Ignore Obama. He thinks his kids are more important than yours.

Sasha and Malia Obama have 11 armed guards at their school
Sidwell Friends, a Washington, D.C. area private school, has 11 armed security guards and is apparently hiring an additional police officer. The reason that the not-at-all biased staff at Breitbart is bringing this to everyone's attention is because Sasha and Malia Obama attend Sidwell Friends, as did other First Kids like Chelsea Clinton, Tricia Nixon, and Archibald Roosevelt (where, presumably, he wasn't tormented for being named Archibald). "Shame on President Obama … for trying to prevent the parents of other school children from doing what he has clearly done for his own," Awr Hawkins wrote.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where was the liberal “outrage” over Clinton’s “COPS in School” federal grant program?
Another day, another sad yet infuriating adventure into “that was then, this is now” Democrat hypocrisy – via Bryan Preston:

The NRA came out with a proposal to post armed police officers at schools to prevent or at least minimize the next school shooting. The left promptly called the idea nuts.

Turns out, it wasn’t a new idea. President Bill Clinton proposed the same idea in April 2000.
Clinton Pledges Funds to Add Police to Schools - Los Angeles Times

He implemented it, too, only to see Barack Obama cut the funding for it.
The PJ Tatler » Report: Obama Cut School Security Funding
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
But by the end of their father's second term as President, Sasha will be 15, and Malia will be 18, and they'll have moved from sleepovers to college applications. At that point, they'll have lived much of their lives in Washington.

"They're smart, they're funny," President Obama told "Good Morning America's" Robin Roberts. "But most importantly, they're kind, they're respectful, they're responsible, they're well behaved. I could not ask for better kids."

Now there will be more milestones in that big White House, including homecomings, proms, learning to drive and first dates.

"I have men with guns that surround them -- often," Obama said, laughing.
Living in the White House: The Obama Family and the Next Four Years as First Daughters Sasha and Malia Grow - ABC News
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:51 AM   #348
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:13 PM   #349
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I have two problems with the current debate prompted by the terrible murders in Connecticut: one is the timing of the debate and the other is about perceptions.

It is difficult to sit quietly until the investigations are completed but that is exactly what we need to do. Information is vital to making informed, intelligent decisions and if this last act of violence was the impetus for some legislative action, we should at least allow the investigation to finish so that much more is known about the circumstances that were involved in this act of deranged brutality.

If our goal is to prevent a re-occurrence, how can we possibly achieve this without knowing what actually happened and why it happened?

We all realize that we have become used to instantaneous gratification but in this case, we will be much better off to just wait. This debate is being carried out right now with pre-existing opinions and examples but we should all ask ourselves: why are we so concerned now as opposed to six months ago? If action was not necessary then and this latest violent act has somehow dictated that some action needs to be taken, we need to wait.

The second point about perceptions is closely related to the first. We need to recognize that hasty legislation many times is faulty legislation. I have two examples: the Fuel Policy Act of 1978 and the establishment of the TSA post 9-11.

Let me begin with the creation of the TSA immediately after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. We suffered a terrible attack that caused a great loss of human life, property, and national security. Even before the collapsed tower's debris was cleared and the Pentagon's gaping hole was sealed off, we were bombarded by pundits and leaders crying for a change in passenger screening administration.

We were told that instead of looking at the eduction and techniques of the current screeners, we needed to federalize all screeners and bring them under the control of the United States Government. That idea resonated with the public and the legislation was passed and enacted. Why did the idea resonate so much with the public, however? When the debate was occurring, I and many others were led to believe that we would have intelligent trained federal employees at every gate - an pseudo FBI agent at each gate, if you will, keeping us safe while we traveled.

The reality, as it is in so many cases, is a little different: Long lines, enormous sums spent on invasive backscatter machines that the TSA has now admitted are not as effective as hoped and are being redeployed to smaller airports, limits on personal items, and removal of shoes. It is interesting to note that the last two are reactionary requirements - they were only put into effect after an attacker tried to use them.

In other words, we got a huge new federal program that often reacts rather than pro-acts, that has implemented very expensive invasive screening procedures that are easily tricked, and our FBI agent at each gate is looking more and more like a civil service Post Office employee at each gate (I'm sorry and apologize to all of the hard working, honest, courteous Post Office employees).

Most of our perceptions were a little skewed.

Maybe we should consider this: if we pass restrictive gun controls, will we resemble Western Europe or much closer to home, Mexico which has very restrictive gun controls. In other words, will our cities look like Frankfurt am Main or Ciudad Juarez?

The winters of the mid 1970s were bitterly cold. It was so cold that the natural gas deliveries had to be curtailed to some industrial users in the North East that had opted for interruptible contracts to buy natural gas. These are gas contracts that allowed the buyer to pay a lower price for the contract if they agreed that in event of a shortage, they could be shut - off by the supplier for a small period of time until the demand eased.

The suppliers had to curtail deliveries twice during the this period to only those that were paying the lower price for the interruptible contract. This had a huge effect however, in the media and the government. It helped that it was a slow news period and so every night there were interviews with workers whose employers had been forced to temporarily shut down while their natural gas deliveries were curtailed. And, of course, there were a few dishonest local distributes that had taken interruptible contracts even though they were providing gas to residential consumers. The pipeline operators scrambled and no one lost their gas due to curtailments.

The media coverage reached a crescendo and President Carter proposed the Power Plant and Industrial Fuel Use Act which was passed in 1978. It restricted the Power Companies and other very large users of Natural Gas from building any new gas -fired boilers. Instead, they were forced to build Coal and Nuclear fired plants to generate electricity. Ironically, the EPA was instrumental in gathering data used in the debate on this act. Their report titled Impact of Natural Gas Curtailments on Electric Utility Plants added plenty of support to the call for the 1978 act.

No sooner than the act had been passed than the supply issues eased and by 1987, even the Federal Government acknowledged that the act was counter-productive and repealed the ill-advised, hastily passed solution to the perceived problem.

Now, we have hundreds of years of supply of Natural Gas and the EPA is busy trying to close those same coal-fired electrical utility plants that perceived "solution" mandated.

I am not going to advocate a solution to the issue being discussed here. I am, however, cautioning that much of what I read and see today being said about the problem has a great opportunity to introduce un-intended consequences and that the perceptions of the solutions may be quite different from the reality that they might introduce. As much as we want to "do something", we need to carefully examine the facts.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:00 PM   #350
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Excellent! Sums this whole thing up perfectly. Thanks for that link.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:47 PM   #351
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This just made the news...
Turns out, the AR WAS NEVER USED TO FIRE A SINGLE ROUND AT THE CONNECTICUT SCHOOL. It stayed outside in the trunk of the killer's car. They're saying that 4 handguns were found inside the school.

SO WE CAN ALL SHUT UP NOW ABOUT BANNING AR's!!!!


http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:57 PM   #352
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This just made the news...
Turns out, the AR WAS NEVER USED TO FIRE A SINGLE ROUND AT THE CONNECTICUT SCHOOL. It stayed outside in the trunk of the killer's car. They're saying that 4 handguns were found inside the school.

SO WE CAN ALL SHUT UP NOW ABOUT BANNING AR's!!!!


Investigation is 'very complex' - Video on TODAY.com
Nice find, but we are scared of scary looking weapons so we will try to ban them just like some states are trying or tried to outlaw pitbulls.


I don't know about you guys but I live in a very rural area. The drug war and violence is spewing onto my neck of the woods from mexico. Business owners from the deep south texas have been kidnapped, taken into Mexico (Another country) and held for ransom and killed. Home invasions happen almost every night in my area with 5+ invadors rushing into a home. Yeah, I'll stick with my high capacity magazines because that means I have perfect or near perfect aim while being half asleep with my revolver. It's a shame that mass shootings like these threaten to take ARs and high capacity mags away from us. Especially the ones 15 minutes from the mexican border with the drug violence.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:07 PM   #353
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the AR WAS NEVER USED
That damned media even had a story where the coroner said .223 casings were all over the place. If those bastards had their way, the autopsies would never be released.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:14 PM   #354
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The media is clueless. I work security at a fed facility and a couple years ago we had a report of an active shooter in a building. Long story short after clearing the building, SWAT, and numerous agencies involved over the course of a couple hours it turned out to be a false alarm. No shooter. No injuries. But CNN had already picked up the story and had reported shots fired and possible casualties. I'll never believe the mainstream media. They tend to jump the gun...pun intended.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:11 PM   #355
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This is nice little article about a city very near to me that some may find of interest.

Gun Ownership - It's The Law In Kennesaw
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:55 PM   #356
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:02 PM   #357
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There's a shocker, conflicting media reports. They really do think we're sheep...hahahaha
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:29 PM   #358
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Good, but a bit jaded. Every American should know these principals, but not agreeing with them does not take away your worthyness to posess them. To suggest that shows an inability to understand the notion of endowed rights, which by admisson of that writer makes you undeserving of them. I chuckled there.

To the point, though. It accurately explains the simple truth: to change my right to own arms you must amend the Constitution through 3/4 states ratification. It does not fully explain, however, that the second is actually to prevent a standing army, which is the federal force that would oppress a society, by keeping their actual weaponry amongst the populace, or to be more specific, in their independent militas individuals homes.

So to ban AR 15s (military type rifles), which are less frequently used than handguns for shootings by a massive amount (though after shoveling icesnow for two days I am too tired to research stats), is to oppose the actual intention of the 2nd. Yet we abide a federal law prohibiting the manufacture of automatic weapons for sale to Americans - even though each and every one would be equally regulated to the ones we are allowed to have, which is strenuous in relation to long rifle regulation to say the least. We abide a federal law allowing wire taps, presumptuous searches, strikes on citizens, and general banning of all freedoms. We allow federal agents to literally sexually assault small children and the population in general, with the notion the many like this security against the few. That doesn't matter - I have the Right, endowed from my greater, God Almighty, to not be harassingly searched by any government. I cannot forfeit this right unless I disagree with the legal system it establishes by breaking its 'top tier' laws - the same as I cannot give someone permission to shoot me, unless of course I threaten to violate their rights. Those rights and I are inseperable. And the part that pisses a lot of people off is that the Constitution says everyone has that right. Even N Koreans and Chinease and Palestinians.

So, so silly.

By the by, someone mentioned mass killing with gas. Remember Joe Stack, he crashed his plane loaded with cans of gas into the IRS local HQ (which didn't fall down). So no more planes? After all, he was a licensed pilot from the federal govt. No more clorox or windex or any of dozens of cleaners because they can be manipulated for destruction? No more cars without a federal license, cause the states obviously aren't handling that - more Americans die from auto incidents than all firearm violence anually. We actually tell people it is A-OK to drink a little alcohol and drive, but not too much, yet many want to prohibit SOME guns because they are extra dangerous? Or their dangerous magazines and f/s and hand grips?
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:35 PM   #359
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Good, but a bit jaded. Every American should know these principals, but not agreeing with them does not take away your worthyness to posess them. To suggest that shows an inability to understand the notion of endowed rights, which by admisson of that writer makes you undeserving of them. I chuckled there.

To the point, though. It accurately explains the simple truth: to change my right to own arms you must amend the Constitution through 3/4 states ratification. It does not fully explain, however, that the second is actually to prevent a standing army, which is the federal force that would oppress a society, by keeping their actual weaponry amongst the populace, or to be more specific, in their independent militas individuals homes.

So to ban AR 15s (military type rifles), which are less frequently used than handguns for shootings by a massive amount (though after shoveling icesnow for two days I am too tired to research stats), is to oppose the actual intention of the 2nd. Yet we abide a federal law prohibiting the manufacture of automatic weapons for sale to Americans - even though each and every one would be equally regulated to the ones we are allowed to have, which is strenuous in relation to long rifle regulation to say the least. We abide a federal law allowing wire taps, presumptuous searches, strikes on citizens, and general banning of all freedoms. We allow federal agents to literally sexually assault small children and the population in general, with the notion the many like this security against the few. That doesn't matter - I have the Right, endowed from my greater, God Almighty, to not be harassingly searched by any government. I cannot forfeit this right unless I disagree with the legal system it establishes by breaking its 'top tier' laws - the same as I cannot give someone permission to shoot me, unless of course I threaten to violate their rights. Those rights and I are inseperable. And the part that pisses a lot of people off is that the Constitution says everyone has that right. Even N Koreans and Chinease and Palestinians.

So, so silly.

By the by, someone mentioned mass killing with gas. Remember Joe Stack, he crashed his plane loaded with cans of gas into the IRS local HQ (which didn't fall down). So no more planes? After all, he was a licensed pilot from the federal govt. No more clorox or windex or any of dozens of cleaners because they can be manipulated for destruction? No more cars without a federal license, cause the states obviously aren't handling that - more Americans die from auto incidents than all firearm violence anually. We actually tell people it is A-OK to drink a little alcohol and drive, but not too much, yet many want to prohibit SOME guns because they are extra dangerous? Or their dangerous magazines and f/s and hand grips?
I so agree with u is all I have to say....
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:31 PM   #360
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Maybe if a teacher was carrying, this would have been less devastating. Maybe this guy wouldn't have killed so many. Maybe he would have killed more. I don't know. All I know is that most people like him stop when they reach opposition.

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