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Old 12-28-2012, 01:14 AM   #361
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:27 AM   #362
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I read DiFi's "proposal" yesterday, and was pretty horrified. "Assualt Weapons" (with new, broader definition) banned, registration of all grandfathered weapons.

Assault Weapons - Issues - United States Senator Dianne Feinstein

Did I mention it pretty much bans every semi auto handgun I can think of?

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Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.
Not "that have more than 10 rounds", CAN accept. If someone makes an aftermarket mag for your handgun > 10 rounds, you just made the list, pal.

Called and wrote to both my Senators and US Rep yesterday. I pray this madness never makes it out of committee.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:35 AM   #363
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Don't you find it kind of amusing. Every mass shooting is where guns are illegal. Government buildings and schools. But than places that have a lot of guns there are never mass shootings. NRA meetings and guns shows. Food for thought
amusing? no, I don't ever find mass shootings amusing, no matter where they take place.

Do you find this amusing??--just happened today--police officers shot at police station

Three New Jersey police officers shot; gunman reported dead - Yahoo! News
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:01 PM   #364
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amusing? no, I don't ever find mass shootings amusing, no matter where they take place.

Do you find this amusing??--just happened today--police officers shot at police station

Three New Jersey police officers shot; gunman reported dead - Yahoo! News
Thank God the police officers were only wounded. A rare occasion, but what could have happened if the police officers weren't armed?

There are many incidents of mass shootings being stopped by a gun owner.

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon | kgw.com Portland

Two wounded in theater shooting - San Antonio Express-News
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:54 PM   #365
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I lifted this from another forum:

Newtown a Microcosm of Government Failure


By Doug Patton, 12/27/12 GOPUSA
It has become axiomatic that when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. In the case of the first responders to the horrific school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, it was 20 minutes, to be exact.

That’s the picture that is emerging from the 911 calls from that terrible day. Twenty minutes. I have tried in vain to imagine my 7-year-old grandson, his defenseless classmates and their equally defenseless teacher being shot to death one by one while waiting 20 minutes for police to arrive. It is a scenario too terrible to conjure in my mind.

To imagine local law enforcement personnel taking a full one-third of an hour to respond to such a monstrous event is infuriating. And yet, there it is. Those who wish to protect themselves and their loved ones in almost any situation should not depend on government. How many times have we seen it before?

On September 11, 2001, government failed to protect the unsuspecting victims on those four airplanes, as well as those on the ground. On Flight 93, it was courageous passengers, taking matters into their own hands, who stopped those Islamist monsters from making that day even more infamous.

In September 2005, government — federal, state and local — completely failed the people of New Orleans when Hurricane Katrina flooded the city’s poorest section. Those who were willing and able to take care of themselves and their families were spared. Many of those who counted on government simply perished.

Even the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, last September, was a case study in brave volunteers, not government — especially not this government — making a difference.

And in every mass shooting, in every school or other public place, in every corner of this country, government has betrayed the very people it is sworn to protect, usually by declaring a “gun-free zone” or some other absurd control on the right of private citizens to render protection for themselves, their families and their neighbors.

On October 16, 1991, in Killeen, Texas, an assailant drove his pickup truck through the front window of the Luby’s Cafeteria. He then shot 50 people, killing 23 of them, before turning the gun on himself. Two of those victims were the elderly parents of Suzanna Hupp, whose revolver was useless to her because it was 100 feet away in the glove compartment of her car.

Hupp later was elected to the Texas Legislature on a platform of allowing Texans to carry concealed handguns, legislation she successfully pushed through and which then-Governor George W. Bush signed into law.

On April 20, 1999, in Littleton, Colorado, two misfit high school students decided to murder as many of their teachers and classmates as possible. Their subsequent rampage — again carried out in gun-free zone — left 13 innocent victims dead.

On April 16, 2007, at Virginia Polytechnic Institute (Virginia Tech), a lone gunman shot and killed 32 people, wounding 17 others. Another school, another gun-free zone.

A few months later, just before Christmas, on December 5, 2007, in Omaha, Nebraska, a 19-year-old loner walked into the Von Maur department store at the Westroads Shopping Center and murdered eight innocent shoppers.

As I wrote in a column at the time, “This individual looked at the ‘no concealed weapons’ sign and read, ‘Murderers welcome here. Please come in and shoot as many people as you like. No one here is capable of stopping you. Even our mall security officers are not armed.’”

January 8, 2011, at a Tucson, Arizona, supermarket, 6 people were murdered and 13 others wounded, including Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, who miraculously survived a bullet through her brain.

July 20, 2012, Aurora, Colorado, in a movie theater that does not allow law-abiding citizens to carry their licensed, concealed firearms, 70 people were shot, 12 of them fatally, by a single shooter.

And now, most recently, we have Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, with its horrendous toll of 26 dead — 20 of them 6 and 7-year-old children. As usual, no one there was allowed the tools to protect them.

One of the teachers reportedly huddled with her students in hiding and assured them, “The bad guys are here now. We just have to wait for the good guys to get here.”

Sadly, the good guys didn’t arrive for 20 minutes.

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Old 12-28-2012, 01:48 PM   #366
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:53 PM   #367
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An open letter to any anti-gunner from me.
You know, my mother and her husband was the most anti gun people that I knew (and gave me a hard time even being a Trooper and carrying a gun while on duty and really giving me hell when I carried off duty) until thier house was broken into (while they were asleep in the house) and her husband was shot by the intruders/burglers.

Now, she and her husband are licensed concealed carry holders. And carry everywhere and often compete in 3 gun matches.

YMMV!

as for me, I am law enforcement and encourage every law abiding citizen to carry a weapon.

and as a last point every felon I have encountered that had a gun, knew they were a felon and it was illegal for them to have a gun, but they carried them anyways...

We don't need gun control we need crazy people control! If you have any doubts take any weapon you wish and lay it on the ground and wait for it to shoot all by itelf, while you at it, hold your breath until it does...(and we'll see what happens first, gun firing or you blue in the face lol)

Respectfully submitted;
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:06 PM   #368
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Good post Bear. And glad your Mom's husband is okay and they saw the light so to speak.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:31 PM   #369
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Good post Bear. And glad your Mom's husband is okay and they saw the light so to speak.
Nothing to do with above.



Its weird that there has been a mass of empty prisons popping up. Rex84 program. Some prisons can hold 2 million in Alaska
And extra large mansion being built in the ozarks for a CIA agent.
Springfield reports Feds ordering extra .40 pistol rounds and .223 rounds. Some thing is just not right. Glutton spending as if the Feds never have to pay it back. Maybe it's just me or is anyone else here connecting the dots.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:44 PM   #370
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Nothing to do with above.

Its weird that there has been a mass of empty prisons popping up. Rex84 program. Some prisons can hold 2 million in Alaska
And extra large mansion being built in the ozarks for a CIA agent.
Springfield reports Feds ordering extra .40 pistol rounds and .223 rounds. Some thing is just not right. Glutton spending as if the Feds never have to pay it back. Maybe it's just me or is anyone else here connecting the dots.
What do you mean? Explane that a little better. Do u think the feds are planning something?
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:52 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by cakes567

What do you mean? Explane that a little better. Do u think the feds are planning something?
It's not up to me to say it seems odd the timing of all these events. Just don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist. But do the research your self.
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:41 AM   #372
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"Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another. Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.

Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful.? For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.

"Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

"Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf."

On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:52 AM   #373
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Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's books On Combat and On Killing are must reads. He really knows his stuff.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:39 AM   #374
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"Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident......
Nonsense from a govt paid warmonger.

Amazing how those that literaly profit from continued violence always talk about how they protect everyone else from violence. The relavence to this thread is more bearing that his ideals are THE CAUSE of mass shootings, not some bullshit solution to them.

All those Swiss sheep need sheepdogs, too, eh?

Rambo gonna save the day? Lmao, sure he will, as long as he brings some rope.

Further, our recent actions globally brought the most violent act Americans citizens have ever seen right into our home. Who protected us then? Certainly not the warmongers who caused it.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:31 AM   #375
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you have to ask yourself "why do they want our guns?" Government Benevolence? Votes? another unconstitutional power grab?

A Government only works when its afraid of the Governed.
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:10 PM   #376
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He actually introduced that bill (HR 2424, 110th Congress) in May 2007. He reintroduced it (HR 3021, 111th Congress) in June of 2009. Both of these died in committee, where most legislation dies. He introduced this version not in reaction to Sandy Hook, but rather in July of 2011. It nor its cousin 3021 have any cosponsers. The original, 2424, was cosponsered by Virgil Goode (Va), but he is no longer a sitting congressman.

Ron Paul, the only one of 537 idiots that actually gives a damn about you, the founding documents, or your inalienable rights. His son doesn't even get it, or at least pretends not to, so the John Boner circle of all powerful McConnell-ites will include him - none of whom support freedom or individual rights.
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:17 PM   #377
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Following is an excerpt from the latest Chuck Baldwin newsletter. (Baldwin ran for President in 2008 as the Constitution Party candidate)

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...Gun Control

This is the big issue! Barack Obama and his gun-control fanatics in the Democrat Party have already declared war on the Second Amendment. They are going to attempt to outlaw semi-automatic rifles, high capacity magazines in both rifles and handguns, and make the private sale of firearms illegal. It will be the biggest assault on the Second Amendment since 1968–and maybe in US history!

If gun owners, and freedom lovers of all types, expect to pass any freedom on to their posterity, they are going to have to fight, AND FIGHT HARD, to preserve their liberties. The same GOP-led House that is going to cave-in on taxes will also have a propensity to cave-in on more gun control. Only the biggest outcry of opposition that they have ever seen from their constituents will come close to helping them stay the line. Freedomists all over America had better take the gloves off come January and rally support against these assaults against the Second Amendment or our liberties will be gone FOREVER!

In addition, State legislators, governors, etc., must also rise up in massive opposition to this tyrannical assault against the Second Amendment by Washington, D.C. In short, states need to tell Washington to go to hell! That they are not going to comply with Washington’s attempt to outlaw the most fundamental right in American history: the right to keep and bear arms.

Thomas Jefferson correctly stated, “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”

George Washington said, “Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence… From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to ensure peace, security, and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable… The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference. When firearms go, all goes.”

Remember, too, semi-automatic rifles are not “assault rifles,” no matter what media propagandists say. Assault rifles are capable of fully automatic fire. These guns are already illegal without jumping through a myriad bureaucratic hoops in order to obtain a special permit to possess them. That assault rifles are illegal is bad enough. To take away the citizen’s right to bear a semi-automatic rifle is to, in effect, completely disarm him. Such an act must be regarded as an act of war against the life and liberties of the American people!

The semi-automatic rifle is the backbone of freedom; it is the single most significant protection against tyranny and oppression in modern times. Is it mere coincidence that the Bloody Butchers of Beijing are calling for the American citizenry to surrender their semi-automatic rifles? US troops won World War II because of the semi-automatic rifle. Switzerland maintained its peaceful neutrality even when the entire continent was soaked in war because of the semi-automatic rifle. The only reason that would-be tyrants in the US government have been kept at bay is because of an American citizenry fully armed with semi-automatic rifles. Foreign enemy-states such as Communist China are more intimidated by an American nation filled with citizens who bear semi-automatic rifles than they are our nuclear arsenal–and that is a fact!

Furthermore, semi-automatic rifles have been around since before World War II, and they are used by millions of hunters every year. Predator hunters, especially, need a semi-automatic rifle. In 1990, one hundred thousand police officers delivered a report to Congress that only 2-3% of crimes were committed using semi-automatic rifles. In 1993, a Bureau of Justice report noted that, nationwide, “military-type” guns are only used in about 1% of crimes. These statistics would not vary much today.

In fact, a person is much more likely to be killed with a knife than with a gun. According to FBI reports, a person in Chicago (for example) is 67 times more likely to be knifed or beaten to death than killed with a so called “assault weapon,” meaning a military-looking semi-automatic rifle.

To view a fully-documented gun control fact sheet containing these facts and much more, go to:

GUN CONTROL FACT-SHEET (2004) - Gun Owners of America

Beyond that, high capacity magazines are essential to self-defense. Bad guys who commit violent crimes are normally “high” on chemicals, drugs, alcohol, etc. Such people are often impervious to pain. Throw in a high level of adrenaline, and many violent attackers cannot be stopped with one or two bullets. Plus, such miscreants often attack like wolves: in packs.

Police Captain Massad Ayoob: “The likelihood of multiple opponents who move fast, often wear body armor, know how to take cover, and tend to ingest chemicals that make them resistant to pain and shock, are all good reasons for carrying guns that throw a whole lot more bullets than six-shooters do.”

Ladies and gentlemen, the semi-automatic rifle is the vanguard of our liberty; it is the surest and most trustworthy means of our self-defense; and it is the primary companion of any man who would both protect and feed his family.

Make no mistake about it: to take away an American’s right to a semi-automatic rifle is to FULLY DISARM HIM. There is no Second Amendment; there is no right to keep and bear arms; there is no citizen militia; there is no liberty without the semi-automatic rifle! This is a line in the sand that is so important that no man or woman who believes in liberty should be willing to comply with any attempt by government to take away his or her semi-automatic rifle. There are some 50-75 million (a very conservative number) owners of semi-automatic rifles all across America. Each of us needs to make up our minds about this RIGHT NOW! What say you?
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:30 PM   #378
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I think Wayne LaPierre and Ted Nugent speak well as to the problem and what needs to be done.

Personally I own firearms and love hunting and shooting sports and have a Concealed Weapons Permit. If "assault weapons" were banned from sale in the US I wouldnt shed a tear. I do believe that any semi automatic firearm that is specifically designed to kill people should not be available to the general public. I do like the style and would own such if they werent so expensive. I can buy a nice bolt gun and a revolver for what I would pay for an AR15 or similar.
Semi autos are only designed to kill huh? I guess someone should tell the millions of people that use them for target shooting and competition that they're no good for that.

Oh and your revolver which i assume you carry for self defense with your carry permit is gonna be pretty damn ineffective if god forbid you ever have to use it...makes me wonder why you carry a revolver seeing as, according to your statement, it isnt designed to stop an attack?? All guns can kill!! The key is responsible ownership, good training, and safe operation.

And you dont think the general public should own a semi auto but you would own one if they were cheaper? Where is the logic in that statement? Because they're too expensive you dont have one so you dont care if they're banned?

Alright well i dont own a revolver so i dont see the need for those, we should ban those too, i dont care...and you know what i dont see the need for a magazine with more than 10 round capacity because ive never needed one so lets ban those too, i dont care...then another gun owner says well i only own bolt guns so lets just get rid of all guns that arnt bolt actions too, i dont care.

You see my point here? Gun owners like yourself who are so willing to say "well i dont see the point in that type of gun go ahead and ban it" are going to be beside themselves one day when restrictions have gotten so tight "their" guns are no longer legal.

When we give up a right its much more difficult to get it back than it was to lose it. If everyone agrees 30 round mag capacity is too much then whats the right number? The right number for those who want to ban firearms is 0, and they way for them to get to 0 is to start restricting slowly until they get there. Opening the door for bans and restrictions leads to more bans and restrictions. Do i personally need a 30 round mag? No...but you can bet your ass i agree with your right to own one. The second amendment isnt about what different individuals personally feel the need for and all gun owners need to understand that.
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:44 PM   #379
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Semi autos are only designed to kill huh? I guess someone should tell the millions of people that use them for target shooting and competition that they're no good for that.

Oh and your revolver which i assume you carry for self defense with your carry permit is gonna be pretty damn ineffective if god forbid you ever have to use it...makes me wonder why you carry a revolver seeing as, according to your statement, it isnt designed to stop an attack?? All guns can kill!! The key is responsible ownership, good training, and safe operation.

And you dont think the general public should own a semi auto but you would own one if they were cheaper? Where is the logic in that statement? Because they're too expensive you dont have one so you dont care if they're banned?

Alright well i dont own a revolver so i dont see the need for those, we should ban those too, i dont care...and you know what i dont see the need for a magazine with more than 10 round capacity because ive never needed one so lets ban those too, i dont care...then another gun owner says well i only own bolt guns so lets just get rid of all guns that arnt bolt actions too, i dont care.

You see my point here? Gun owners like yourself who are so willing to say "well i dont see the point in that type of gun go ahead and ban it" are going to be beside themselves one day when restrictions have gotten so tight "their" guns are no longer legal.

When we give up a right its much more difficult to get it back than it was to lose it. If everyone agrees 30 round mag capacity is too much then whats the right number? The right number for those who want to ban firearms is 0, and they way for them to get to 0 is to start restricting slowly until they get there. Opening the door for bans and restrictions leads to more bans and restrictions. Do i personally need a 30 round mag? No...but you can bet your ass i agree with your right to own one. The second amendment isnt about what different individuals personally feel the need for and all gun owners need to understand that.
I guess I can't squirrel hunt, fox hunt, coon hunt, crow hunt, and do pest control, teach people how to handle and properly shoot a gun with my semi auto .22 anymore! I agree with u. If someone dosnt see or have the need for something like a semi auto gun then they don't care!
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:39 PM   #380
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I guess I can't squirrel hunt, fox hunt, coon hunt, crow hunt, and do pest control, teach people how to handle and properly shoot a gun with my semi auto .22 anymore! I agree with u. If someone dosnt see or have the need for something like a semi auto gun then they don't care!
I'm tired of this crap I'm making a rapid firing device using a 16" chainsaw as a power source.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:11 PM   #381
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I'm tired of this crap I'm making a rapid firing device using a 16" chainsaw as a power source.
Let me know how that turns out... I wanna see that lol
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:44 PM   #382
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Let me know how that turns out... I wanna see that lol
I would build a prototype in another country
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:51 PM   #383
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I would build a prototype in another country
Have to put that there so ATF doesn't come knocking on my door
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:58 PM   #384
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Have to put that there so ATF doesn't come knocking on my door
There outside your door....lmao
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:07 PM   #385
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Have to put that there so ATF doesn't come knocking on my door
No kidding.... this day and age you would get locked up for life for something like that!
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:09 PM   #386
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There outside your door....lmao
Maybe with Diane freaks stein mandating my head on a stick as if I'm a mass murderer.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:11 PM   #387
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Maybe with Diane freaks stein mandating my head on a stick as if I'm a mass murderer.
She thinks only the rich should have guns. Such as herself.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:12 PM   #388
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No kidding.... this day and age you would get locked up for life for something like that!
Yep, yet someone can bash their own grandmother to death with a hammer and be released into the public.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:12 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Ditchdoc View Post

Yep, yet someone can bash their own grandmother to death with a hammer and be released into the public.
The legal system is so screwed up!!!!
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:16 PM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakes567

The legal system is so screwed up!!!!
And what do these stupid politicians do. Blame our civil rights.
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