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Old 12-21-2012, 02:26 PM   #31
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An AR15 is not an assault rifle. So tired of explaining that to people.
As long as the Department of Justice defines it as an assault rifle you will never change John-Q public's mind......

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Old 12-21-2012, 02:31 PM   #32
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An AR15 is not an assault rifle. So tired of explaining that to people.
Unfortunately, you are wasting your breath... As with many words/terms throughout history, definitions change and "common use" becomes the new definition.
In our current society, AR-15's ARE assault rifles. As someone who owns a few of them, and have 3 more in the build process I dont agree BUT they are rifles that are difficult to put in most other categories. They are not hunting rifles, SURE they are great for shooting paper, but I dont see that as their purpose.
I like to consider mine "Anti-Assault Rifles" or "Personal Defence Weapons".
In any event, things are going to change. But I wouldnt be too worried, there are way to many of US.

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Old 12-21-2012, 02:33 PM   #33
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I do have a problem with the law allowing folks to bypass the backgroud check when purchasing guns at a gun show. That could catch some folks, obviously not all of the criminals, but some of the folks who purchase them who would otherwise fail a background check.
You really need to look into what you are saying instead of just repeating what the media tells you. If you buy from a gun dealer at a gun show you still have to fill out all the paperwork and registration required by the state in which you live. What they are referring to are private sales that take place at gun shows. This is no different than me coming to your house and buying a gun. It would be extremely foolish for you to do so because if I committed a crime with that gun, it would be traced back to you. The proper way is to complete the transaction at the local state police baracks.

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As for the mandatory registration to own a gun, I personally have no problem with that. The paranoid types who say that the first step to genocide is dearming the population (usually accompanied by pictures of Stalin and Hitler) will be the same ones who say those lists will be used by those who invade or take over our country to find and kill all gun owners.
I say this is unlikely given our system of government and the rapid means of digital communication/dispersal of information we have at our disposal...interwebz, social media, etc.
Again, at least in the state of MD, there are background checks and registration papers on all guns sold.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:35 PM   #34
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Without realizing it you just gave the perfect example of why an AWB would be pointless. A 12 gauge is the perfect choice for causing the most damage in a confined space. If a crazy lunatic didn't have access to an "assault weapon", a shotgun could do far more damage.
It's time to look at why these things happen where they do. Have you ever heard of someone shooting up a gun shop or a gun show?

Furthermore what happened to the initial reports of 2 handguns and an AR in the trunk of the car? Then it became 4 handguns and the AR in the trunk. Suddenly it was all caused by an AR 15 and no mention of hand guns. Very convenient for the politicians.

Not to mention, CT already had an assualt weapons ban.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:36 PM   #35
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Agree, and steep criminal liability if a crime is comitted with yours. I'm not sure how well they were secured in CT, but this perp's mother paid for that mistake with her life.

Agree, but how could you legally mandate this?

Outside of NICS, what would you suggest? Here are the categories banned from gun ownership with NICS:


Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year
18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (2)
Is a fugitive from justice
18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (3)
Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance
18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (4)
Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution
18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (5)
Is an alien illegally or unlaw-fully in the United States or who has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa.
18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (6)
Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions
18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (7)
Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced U.S. citizenship
18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (8)
Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner
18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (9)
Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence
18, U.S.C. §922 (n)
Is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year

In addition to local, state, tribal, and federal agencies voluntarily contributing information to the NICS Index, the NICS Section receives telephone calls from mental health institutions, psychiatrists, police departments, and family members requesting placement of individuals into the NICS Index. Frequently, these are emergency situations and require immediate attention. Any documentation justifying a valid entry into the NICS Index must be available to the originating agencies
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nic...ion/nics-index

I'm not sure if someone "under the radar" (never treated for a mental illness, etc) would be caught in those cases.[/QUOTE]



You don't legally mandate it. It's just something we all need to do. Don't you think that guys mother had an idea her son had issues? We may never know.

And your right. But we need to enforce the laws more strictly. We're never gona catch all the bad guys. But we can improve. That's where government should be focusing. Not banning guns. Improving what we have now.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:38 PM   #36
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:44 PM   #37
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I do have a problem with the law allowing folks to bypass the backgroud check when purchasing guns at a gun show. .
The "gun show loophole" is just plain false. You still have to do the FBI background check even it you are at a gunshow. IMHO It's one of those catch phrases that the anti gun people throw around. I have bought several guns at shows and every time I was still required to pass the FBI check.

As an LEO I do not want to have to live in a country that the only people that have guns are the cops and criminals.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:59 PM   #38
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The "gun show loophole" is just plain false. You still have to do the FBI background check even it you are at a gunshow. IMHO It's one of those catch phrases that the anti gun people throw around. I have bought several guns at shows and every time I was still required to pass the FBI check.

As an LEO I do not want to have to live in a country that the only people that have guns are the cops and criminals.
It actually refers to private sales at gun shpws, which are illegal in MD unless done through the State Police or a FFL dealer.
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:01 PM   #39
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Not to mention, CT already had an assualt weapons ban.
It also worked because he tried to purchase a gun and was denied. His mother was at fault for not having a gun safe.
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:12 PM   #40
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It also worked because he tried to purchase a gun and was denied. His mother was at fault for not having a gun safe.
A cable lock comes with most handguns (I know Sig does, not sure about Glock). Yet another way this all could have been prevented.
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:18 PM   #41
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Cable locks can be cut. No it's not easy but can be done. Point is any safety precaution can and will be circumvented by a determined criminal. The guy in CT broke 41 laws that day and at the end he was dead, unfortunatley so were many others. How do you legislate against something like that? Simple answer is there is no way you can.
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:19 PM   #42
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sorry MTH I typed 20 (I use chapt. 20 alot, so its habbit) It is Chapt 14. This one (315.1) deals specifically with minors, but there are at least 2 more that deal with "adults"

misdemeanor if it was used in a crime, felony if it was used in a capitol offense.

We do not need more laws, we just need to ENFORCE the ones already on the books.

I am LEO and carry a gun to protect myself. I carry on and off duty, I tell everyone that is of legal age, and mentally stable that I come into contact with that they need to carry as well. We live in perilous times, and criminals will carry and crazies will kill regardless of the law, Hell, they are already criminals, breaking the law, what makes folks think that just because there is a new law they will leave the gun at home and pick up a pipe?

If I was a thug, where would I rather break in at, or commit a crime, a house that is armed, or a house that is a "gun free zone"?
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:22 PM   #43
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As mentioned the gun show loophole is a trumped up term to define a private sale - no different than VAguntrader.com in legality. All arms bought from FFL dealers must be purchased through state pd BGC methods.

Assault rifles stem from the Sturmgewehr 44, a Nazi built gun which was equipped with a 30rnd mag and fired 500rnds a min. German is a funny language - the direct translation is Storm Rifle, but the context is "to storm a position", one of aggression or assault. So, every rifle the West made to mimic it (starting only 20 years after it, lol) is, at least at heart, an assault rifle. This bothers folks on both sides, because one fails to acknowledge the contextual usage of the term, while the other denies the contextual usage of the term.


Attachment 189544


A national registration program leaves a problem. Are all 280,000,000 - 300,000,000 assumed guns in private hands going to turn themselves in? What if they don't? I would support a registration program, essentially making all firearms class III, if the Reagan Hughes Machine Gun Ban of 1986 is lifted. As long as it stays, I oppose any and every limitation of gun rights or ownership on the federal level. Want to change it? Vote local, and bring 3/4 deciding states with ya to DC.

VA also has laws putting your hind in the hot seat if your firearm is at a crimescene. Consignment sales are an easy way to avoid this, and in private sales many people require a voter ID card or CCW permit, both of which exhibit the legal allowance to own a firearm as a VA resident (long rifle, at least - technicalities on pistols/AFs).

The Brady Campaign alledges you are 22 times more likely to shoot a friend, family member, yourself, or have a loved one shot by your gun simply by keeping it in the home. If true, who in their right mind would vote to arm teachers? Further, teachers have no sovereign immunity, or the doctrine the state cannot infringe rights or commit torts while protecting & serving (basically). Would you see a 65yo teacher loose her lifes savings b/c she missed? How about jail time for her? And as pointed out earlier, teachers - particularly elementary teachers - do not want to carry guns.

VP Biden has been charged with leading the Administrations effort into curbing gun violence nationally. He is likely to make reccomendations next month, and the White House has recieved thousands and thousands of contacts asking for a federal weapons ban.

And fyi, no embassy was attacked in Benghazi. It was a CIA mission house.

Facts can be fun =)
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:30 PM   #44
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Ted Kennedy's car killed more people than my gun. Facts really are fun
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:35 PM   #45
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Ted Kennedy's car killed more people than my gun. Facts really are fun
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:00 PM   #46
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A cable lock comes with most handguns (I know Sig does, not sure about Glock). Yet another way this all could have been prevented.
Glocks come with a cable lock. My Springfield EMP has a lock built into the gun. You put the key into the back of the main spring housing and turn it and the gun no longer functions. The slide is locked closed, the trigger is locked as well as the hammer. The problem with either of these is that regardless of whether or not they are being utilized they both can easily be defeated by a thief. The cable can be cut with bolt cutters and a couple of tools from the local autoparts store can defeat the integrated gun locks. The primary purpose of these is to prevent children from accidentally firing the weapon. In order to secure a weapon and prevent theft the guns would need to be kept in a safe.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:11 PM   #47
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In order to secure a weapon and prevent theft the guns would need to be kept in a safe.
Glad I read the whole post before I said that.

Had she bought 1 less pistol she couldve bought one helluva firesafe. No excuse for why she didn't, particularly when you factor in that she allegedly knew her son was mentally ill. It is the only resonable security measure for gun safety/storage.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:20 PM   #48
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Gun bans are just plain stupid.
Baseball bats kill more people each year than guns, are we going to ban those and shut down the MLB?
Networks are pulling TV shows that are circled around guns now; talk about knee-jerk.
Cars kill more people each year than guns, are we going to ban those and shut down the auto makers, I don't think so.
If someone wants to harm others, they will find a way; either with a gun, bomb, water or rocks...it will get done.
This was a horrible, but them jake-legs in DC and the talking heads on TV are just morrons. In my opinion.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:21 PM   #49
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If locks prevented theifs there would be no such thing as a stolen vehicle.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:25 PM   #50
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This about sums it up.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:26 PM   #51
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Some fuel for the fire. A representative in my home state is proposing to have a few staff members in each school trained and armed.

Oregon State Rep. Proposes Arming Teachers To Prevent Shootings | RealClearPolitics


And as far as the cost of up-armored schools goes vs the cost of training 2-3 people on how to safely and accurately handle and fire a weapon?!?!? Come on. Seriously?!?! The locking system cost plus installation as well as the cost of bullet proofing all the doors and windows would FAR exceed the cost of training a couple school staff members. Schools are hurting for money as it is.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:26 PM   #52
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One of my favorite signs:
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:31 PM   #53
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One of my favorite signs:
Yup. I agree.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:34 PM   #54
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In order to secure a weapon and prevent theft the guns would need to be kept in a safe.
Glad I read the whole post before I said that.
You thought I was going somewhere else with that post?
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:38 PM   #55
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Some folks here have mentioned that the only weapons mentioned that should be banned are high power weapons. A 22 Caliber can kill people as could the larger, more powerful caliber weapons. As to the scary looking ARs, they are made in a variety of calibers, from a 22 caliber up to a 308 (to the best of my knowledge). The people that are against guns won’t stop at high powered, scary looking weapons. At what point is enough, enough with these never ending, seemingly overlapping, overreaching laws. Next thing you know some of us won’t be allowed to say Merry Christmas to a coworker—oh, wait we’re already there!

Bottom line for me is, I think that banning weapons (of any caliber) is not only a misguided effort to stop criminals, or mentally ill folks from doing what they do but it also goes against our fundamental right under the constitution. And it should not matter if anyone thinks large caliber weapons are only made for (in their minds) mass murders or criminals. It’s a right, given to us by the founding fathers of this great nation.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:20 PM   #56
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VP Biden has been charged with leading the Administrations effort into curbing gun violence nationally. He is likely to make reccomendations next month, and the White House has recieved thousands and thousands of contacts asking for a federal weapons ban.
Well, if Big Joe is on the job it makes me feel safer already.


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And fyi, no embassy was attacked in Benghazi. It was a CIA mission house. Facts can be fun =)
Glad to know that "fun" fact, then that makes it less important? Perhaps the folks that were killed in this "CIA house" weren't even real Americans?!?!

God bless this country and the brave soldiers that have given their lives to protect the freedoms we have today including the right to speak our minds.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:25 PM   #57
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Baseball bats kill more people each year than guns, are we going to ban those and shut down the MLB?
Citation please?

I'm against bans, because as has bee pointed out many times, they are rooted in ignorance and mired in political bull. I did think the NRA's "press conference" (no questions please) was horrible, and they missed an opportunity to make it look as if they are actually engaged in trying to discuss the issue. All they are doing is advocating creation of another government entity. Homeland Security or TSA, anyone?
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:26 PM   #58
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Some folks have to be able show their manhood some how, and guns provide one way at least.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:37 PM   #59
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Naa, coyote, more of an introspective about my tendency to skim things in long threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by werubiblue06
Some folks here have mentioned that the only weapons mentioned that should be banned are high power weapons. A 22 Caliber can kill people as could the larger, more powerful caliber weapons. As to the scary looking ARs, they are made in a variety of calibers, from a 22 caliber up to a 308 (to the best of my knowledge). The people that are against guns won’t stop at high powered, scary looking weapons. At what point is enough, enough with these never ending, seemingly overlapping, overreaching laws. Next thing you know some of us won’t be allowed to say Merry Christmas to a coworker—oh, wait we’re already there!

Bottom line for me is, I think that banning weapons (of any caliber) is not only a misguided effort to stop criminals, or mentally ill folks from doing what they do but it also goes against our fundamental right under the constitution. And it should not matter if anyone thinks large caliber weapons are only made for (in their minds) mass murders or criminals. It’s a right, given to us by the founding fathers of this great nation.
I get your point here, but it is even more obsurd because I do not think anyone is saying caliber. They are saying accessories. Mags, grips, stocks, and stabbers. These somehow make them inherently dangerous. Somehow.

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Glad to know that "fun" fact, then that makes it less important? Perhaps the folks that were killed in this "CIA house" weren't even real Americans?!?!
Not sure how I implied that. If we want the truth to be told about the attack, why aren't we telling the truth about the attack? But now we digress...

Big Joe 'il set em straight.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:49 PM   #60
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Influenza kills between 3,000 and 49,000 people per season, according to CDC estimates, depending on particular strain and population infection rates. In 2009, some 33,000 people were killed by guns in America and that is pretty steady, meaning at times the Flu kills about 80% more people than the gun. On average it is just as ferocious. Who wants mandatory flu shots? Millions, if not billions, are lost every year from flu stricken employees. So let's line up, yeah?

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