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Old 12-23-2012, 11:43 PM   #211
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Is anyone here familiar with Operation Fast and Furious? The U.S. government was supplying Mexican drug cartels with arms in the hopes that those firearms would be used in crimes in Mexico and the government could point to the fact it was easy for them to fall into the wrong hands and the American People would be begging for more gun control. The operation killed approximately 300 Mexican civilians and Border Agent Brian Terry.

Dont misunderstand me I'm not trying to say that our administration is happy about what happened at Sandy Hook however IMO I think they are trying to use the tragedy to pick up where Fast and Furious failed.
LOL! Ya think?

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Old 12-24-2012, 02:29 AM   #212
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No, I used the quote "only a few causalties", with absolutley no statistical data of the situations, as a basis for my response. The notion that a populace voluntarily carrying is a defense mechanism is a very faith based statement. It is not ignorant to think teachers, general liberal leaning individuals, in CT, where they have voted to enact some of the strictist gun laws, do not have an interest in carrying guns. Outside TX and TN, I have seen nor heard of one teacher who feels restricted of freedom in reference to carrying on campus, though I am sure an excrushiatingly small minority exists. Further, were you to be intimately familiar wih their protocols, it would not equate to armed teachers. It would be arms in lockboxes and vehicles.

Through the acknowledgement of "classified areas" you are agreeing to the premise guns don't belong everywhere. You think a govt institution has the right to ban them in one place, where adults capable of free choice go, yet a govt institution mandating attendence of children should not be equally secure?
The Populace Carrying has nothing to do with a defense mechanism those places are where people have chosen to be pro-active for their defense. My acknowledgment of the the classified areas is with understanding that if you are there there is already a level of security greater then what you can probably provide yourself. As I stated before you enter they normally have places you can lock up your weapon. It is one of many reason I choose not to go to these places. For some it might be a defense mechanism but many carry because they forethought if they might be in a situation and needed to protect themselves. I decided to get mine when my command basically condemned the Marines who raised their hands and said they had a concealed carry.

Schools are local not federal entities. Though they do receive federal assistance they are still local and no way does the federal government provide for their security. if the federal government did we would not be discussing this today.

Since there is no level of security provided by the Government of then attempting to write some letter on a piece of paper and make a law that will do nothing to provide any security. It is the the local governments who should be deciding what needs to be done. They should not be waiting for the government to ban these scary assault weapons. they should be taking proactive steps to provide a solution.

I don't have a problem with teachers carrying, They need to be trained however. I personally would rather see more security for schools. If a teacher wants to carry so be it. But Teachers should be focused on teaching not weapons safety. and to be clear any state that does not ban conceal carry on schools teachers can carry. I know Utah is one of these states.

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Old 12-24-2012, 02:33 AM   #213
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On a side note.... Cheaper than dirt, and all the other sites are out of stock on everything related to the AR15.

I'm just glad I got all my goodies years ago. It's turning into an "order from superior" type of environment. Waiting for who knows when.

Never been a fan of the AR platform, I thought the M-16 was gonna be the coolest thing in the world when I joined the Corps... It was a let down. I guess I over Hyped it in my mind before I joined

Gonna have to get My Thompson if they start pushing this issue any more however.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:38 AM   #214
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Studies have shown that having guns in the home do not make it a safer place.
Studies are mostly BS. You put in foo foo numbers and you can make it what you want.
Tell you what post a sign in your yard and on your door that you dont have guns and see if you feel safer .It wont take long to show that you are in fact not safer without a gun.

Some people fail to realize that gun owners and non gun owners are afforded some security that criminals do not know who is armed and who is not.If that changes we are all in trouble.

My 2 cents . Most schools have several bs positions that could be replaced with actual police or sheriff officers.In addition allow any properly trained and willing teachers to conceal carry and do away with all gun free zones as they are total bs and does not work it only disarms law abiding people.

One large issue I have not seen posted here yet that I think needs brought up.The media is to blame for some of this. They sensationalize the shootings and give the shooters the attention and fame they seek. So then you have more wack jobs out there taking this all in thinking they want to be famous too. Pass a law to silence the media and prevent anyone from releasing the name of the shooter. Let them rot in prison or die unknown. This may not stop the next nut from doing this stuff but it would dang sure help.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:00 AM   #215
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...
Since there is no level of security provided by the Government of then attempting to write some letter on a piece of paper and make a law that will do nothing to provide any security. It is the the local governments who should be deciding what needs to be done. They should not be waiting for the government to ban these scary assault weapons. they should be taking proactive steps to provide a solution.

I don't have a problem with teachers carrying, They need to be trained however. I personally would rather see more security for schools. If a teacher wants to carry so be it. But Teachers should be focused on teaching not weapons safety. and to be clear any state that does not ban conceal carry on schools teachers can carry. I know Utah is one of these states.
I agree, 100%. I just do not feel a teacher carrying equates to security, though it may increase safety. There must be other measures, like lockdowns and resource officers, to provide the expectation of security. We are actually very close, I believe, in our opinions here.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:09 AM   #216
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I don't have a problem with teachers carrying, They need to be trained however. I personally would rather see more security for schools. If a teacher wants to carry so be it. But Teachers should be focused on teaching not weapons safety. and to be clear any state that does not ban conceal carry on schools teachers can carry. I know Utah is one of these states.
So here's a question for everyone....let's say that YOU are a teacher in a public school.

In light of the shooting in Columbine and Newtown, you want to carry a firearm. You're trained, you have a carry license but oops! Government liberals won't let you carry the means to defend yourself and the children you have responsibility for.

How do you feel about that?
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:14 AM   #217
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Pass a law to silence the media and prevent anyone from releasing the name of the shooter. Let them rot in prison or die unknown. This may not stop the next nut from doing this stuff but it would dang sure help.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:16 AM   #218
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Same govt says I can't videotape police for later distribution to the public...

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Old 12-24-2012, 07:53 AM   #219
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I think when we're discussing these things, we probably need to draw a distinction between the Bill of Rights and local laws, particularly if those local laws haven't been vetted for Constitutionality.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:11 AM   #220
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While I think something needs to be done maybe more of a bkgrd check I do not have the answer as far as a gun ban I do see it as my right to defend myself and my family but IF WE LET THE GOVERNMENT CHANGE THE 2ND then what is next your right to FREEDOM OF SPEECH to say what you please when and where you please for this simple reason we can not let them change the 2ND do not be blind sheep led by uncle sam .
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:17 AM   #221
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[QUOTE=Jackalope;3136055]
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Sooooo, it's okay to shoot 17-18 year olds? Is that the point here?
Of course not. The point was the bending of statistics.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:13 AM   #222
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
But when the press manipulates, or distorts facts for a biased motive. there is the possibility they are liable for inciting violence or causing libel. They should be subject to regulation just as any individulal should be when it comes to speech.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:16 AM   #223
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Regulation? More like prosecution...
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:28 AM   #224
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:43 AM   #225
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Damn I love this site.... I'm a Life member of NRA and sometimes I have a hard time explaining the way I feel.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:54 AM   #226
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Damn I love this site.... I'm a Life member of NRA and sometimes I have a hard time explaining the way I feel.
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I'm a supporter and member of NRA but I do feel sometimes they are too extreme as well. I'm sure to some extent has always been this way but in our country it seems impossible to be a moderate on any topic. It's either far left or far right. No compromise, no logical middle ground. I think if we met in middle on more topics could get more accomplished while retaining, and maybe getting back, more freedoms.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:55 AM   #227
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Of course not. The point was the bending of statistics.
I don't see where the statistics were "bent". You have to draw a line somewhere. IMO, drawing it between adults and juveniles seems logical.

Of course most will show up at 17-18. If you did it for drunk driving, drugs, shoplifting, speeding or breaking curfew, you'd get the same break. The older kids get, the more freedom to travel, be independent and get into trouble they have.

On the other hand draw it between newborns and three year olds and you probably won't have any at all. Would you consider that "bending statistics" as well? At what point do you have statistics that you'd consider to be "unbent"?
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:56 AM   #228
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But when the press manipulates, or distorts facts for a biased motive. there is the possibility they are liable for inciting violence or causing libel. They should be subject to regulation just as any individulal should be when it comes to speech.
And they are. If you can prove they incited violence or were guilty of libel, then sue them or swear out a warrent. But you can't just wave unfounded accusations around.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:57 AM   #229
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I'm a supporter and member of NRA but I do feel sometimes they are too extreme as well. I'm sure to some extent has always been this way but in our country it seems impossible to be a moderate on any topic. It's either far left or far right. No compromise, no logical middle ground. I think if we met in middle on more topics could get more accomplished while retaining, and maybe getting back, more freedoms.
This is America there is no middle ground its all extreme and no common sense.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:01 AM   #230
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This is America there is no middle ground its all extreme and no common sense.
Unfortunately that's true more often than not. I think if you talked with most people face to face on individual level and actually presented facts, eliminated misconceptions and outright lies, we would be a lot closer as a country. But in mass, online, in crowds we absorb into stereotypes and mob mentality. And our "news" in this country is at best a joke, at worst lies. So much information withheld, incorrectly reported, to fit a narrative each side feels they must fall on to keep their viewers happy. We look for affirmation when watching news, not actual information.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:34 AM   #231
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Gun owners being treated like sex offenders. Wow, just wow. Welcome to the 4th Reich.


Map: Where are the gun permits in your neighborhood?
http://www.lohud.com/interactive/art...nclick_check=1
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:46 AM   #232
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Gun owners being treated like sex offenders. Wow, just wow. Welcome to the 4th Reich.

Map: Where are the gun permits in your neighborhood?
http://www.lohud.com/interactive/art...nclick_check=1
I haven't clicked on the link, and I disagree with the concept, but there could be a positive outcome. If criminals research before attempting to rob they'll skip your house.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:49 AM   #233
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I haven't clicked on the link, and I disagree with the concept, but there could be a positive outcome. If criminals research before attempting to rob they'll skip your house.
Right, it increases a criminal's odds of committing a crime with little or no resistance.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:49 AM   #234
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Gun owners being treated like sex offenders. Wow, just wow. Welcome to the 4th Reich.

Map: Where are the gun permits in your neighborhood?
http://www.lohud.com/interactive/art...nclick_check=1
I haven't read the article, and I disagree with the concept, but there could be a bright side. If criminals research before breaking and entering they'll skip your house.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:52 AM   #235
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Right, it increases a criminal's odds of committing a crime with little or no resistance.
Exactly. (Sorry for double post. App said it didn't post)
So if those who are armed do not get robbed, and those who aren't are robbed then maybe people will start to notice. Especially if publicly available information.
I'm all for criminals knowing I have multiple weapons in my house and that I carry when possible in public and my vehicle.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:56 AM   #236
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I'm a supporter and member of NRA but I do feel sometimes they are too extreme as well. I'm sure to some extent has always been this way but in our country it seems impossible to be a moderate on any topic. It's either far left or far right. No compromise, no logical middle ground. I think if we met in middle on more topics could get more accomplished while retaining, and maybe getting back, more freedoms.
All that's probably true, but there's a reason for it. When people take advantage of your willingness to compromise, you quickly learn not to compromise.

For example, let's say you wanted to sell a Jeep. You think a fair price for the Jeep is $10,000. So you price it at $10,999 figuring that the buyer will want to haggle a bit and you have a bit in there to "give" him. So I come along and want to buy your Jeep. I see that you've priced it at $10,999 and that tells me that you're willing to "compromise"....so I offer you $3,000 for your Jeep.

You quickly tell me, there's no way in hell I'm selling that Jeep for $3,000 so I tell you, "Well, I'm willing to compromise. How about we meet in the middle?"

Would you consider your refusal to meet me in the middle to be "extreme"? That's the sort of world we live in today. The "extremists" are those who are unwilling to go to absurd lengths to "meet in the middle".
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:57 AM   #237
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Exactly. (Sorry for double post. App said it didn't post)
So if those who are armed do not get robbed, and those who aren't are robbed then maybe people will start to notice. Especially if publicly available information.
I'm all for criminals knowing I have multiple weapons in my house and that I carry when possible in public and my vehicle.

Nice concept, but the info would be buried and ignored if it doesn't jive with MSM and the government's agenda.

I'm not a gun owner, but now I may have to rethink that just because of stuff like this.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:57 AM   #238
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What are all of these "registered" guns you speak of? Registered by whom? Where is this registration kept? The background check they do is a simple phone call that asks if Mr Whetstone is eligible to purchase a firearm....
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:15 PM   #239
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I haven't clicked on the link, and I disagree with the concept, but there could be a positive outcome. If criminals research before attempting to rob they'll skip your house.
They've outlawed releasing this information in some states. It's considered an invasion of privacy. I recall one place (Arkansas, I believe) where they published CC holders in the paper. The reporter was a bit peeved when all of his "personal" information was put all over the internet. Name, phone number, address, street view of his home, etc. After all, it was public information, right?

Revealing holder's info is bad news. Some of these folks are women with orders of protection on abusers, and they want to let that abuser know where the victim lives? Do we really want to let thieves know which home to burglarize when no one is there because it is more likely to have a gun to steal?
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:31 PM   #240
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All that's probably true, but there's a reason for it. When people take advantage of your willingness to compromise, you quickly learn not to compromise.

For example, let's say you wanted to sell a Jeep. You think a fair price for the Jeep is $10,000. So you price it at $10,999 figuring that the buyer will want to haggle a bit and you have a bit in there to "give" him. So I come along and want to buy your Jeep. I see that you've priced it at $10,999 and that tells me that you're willing to "compromise"....so I offer you $3,000 for your Jeep.

You quickly tell me, there's no way in hell I'm selling that Jeep for $3,000 so I tell you, "Well, I'm willing to compromise. How about we meet in the middle?"

Would you consider your refusal to meet me in the middle to be "extreme"? That's the sort of world we live in today. The "extremists" are those who are unwilling to go to absurd lengths to "meet in the middle".
exactly, shall not be infringed pretty much tells me that there is no compromise.

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