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Old 12-24-2012, 01:52 PM   #241
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I feel the same way. shall not be infringed = no compromise.
They can have my guns when they pry them from my dead cold hands.

I do feel it is the responsibility of every gun owner to keep them secure be it on their person and in their control at all times or locked in a gun safe.I would not oppose a law requiring you to own a gun safe before you can purchase AR style guns .like it or not they are the most desirable gun for thieves now.

Both my ARs ar in a hefty gun safe as well as all the guns that I am not carrying.I keep my M&P FS 40 on me or next to me at all times as does my wife with her Keltec 380. My son keeps a shot gun next to his bed as does my daughter.We shoot and shoot often and train home defense and gun safety. Things were not this way years ago. Our rural area has changed drastically in the past 10 years. We used to leave keys in the cars and not lock the doors to the house. Now we lock up tight and are armed to the hilt. Break ins are an everyday occurrence.This area has become consumed with drug attics and they will stop at nothing to get their fix.

The awakening for us was 2 years ago everyone on our road was burglarized. They took everything from my storage shed .They also walked into my brother in-laws house in the middle of the night while they were home in bed. Thank God nobody was hurt as they were high on meth and it was scary. My niece walked into the kitchen to find 2 guys cracked out rummaging through the cookie jars.She froze and could not scream or move. They ran out the door and ran on foot .
Brother inlaw called me and we cought them and held them at gun point.Guess what one of them was already out on bail from another arrest for breaking and entering. She picked him out of lineup.And they filled charges on him. Let him out on bail and 3 days later he was shot dead by a home owner about 4 miles from here .After dam near beating this old man to death he was carrying the mans stuff to his car and the old man pulled out his shotgun and gave him the justice our legal system should have.

So yea 2A is just as important to me today as it was for our founding fathers.Maybe even more so today.My daughter and son-inlaw and my wonderful grand baby live with us. Anyone of us in this house will proudly protect and defend our family and home with lethal force and nobody is taking that ability away from me.

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Old 12-24-2012, 02:06 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drossman
Gun owners being treated like sex offenders. Wow, just wow. Welcome to the 4th Reich.

Map: Where are the gun permits in your neighborhood?
http://www.lohud.com/interactive/art...nclick_check=1
Worse than sex offenders. Sex offenders did something wrong. Gun owners haven't. And by putting them on a map now guess where the bad guys are gonna break into when no one is home to still guns.

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Old 12-24-2012, 02:18 PM   #243
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Hey: compromise doesn't mean giving up guns. In fact I didn't even mention guns. I referred to our culture.
I'm not sure you understand my post and that it is about some of you.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:24 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Jackalope

All that's probably true, but there's a reason for it. When people take advantage of your willingness to compromise, you quickly learn not to compromise.

For example, let's say you wanted to sell a Jeep. You think a fair price for the Jeep is $10,000. So you price it at $10,999 figuring that the buyer will want to haggle a bit and you have a bit in there to "give" him. So I come along and want to buy your Jeep. I see that you've priced it at $10,999 and that tells me that you're willing to "compromise"....so I offer you $3,000 for your Jeep.

You quickly tell me, there's no way in hell I'm selling that Jeep for $3,000 so I tell you, "Well, I'm willing to compromise. How about we meet in the middle?"

Would you consider your refusal to meet me in the middle to be "extreme"? That's the sort of world we live in today. The "extremists" are those who are unwilling to go to absurd lengths to "meet in the middle".
Well it goes for both sides of the party line.

And jeep analogy flawed.
If I sold for fair price instead of jacking up in beginning. Distrust from start.
Is $10K fair? If so that's the compromise. However if worth $8K but I want $10K bc off add ons or bc I just think special then holding at that price is no worse than person offering $3K.
Your example exactly what the problem is in our culture now.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:25 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by drossman

Nice concept, but the info would be buried and ignored if it doesn't jive with MSM and the government's agenda.

I'm not a gun owner, but now I may have to rethink that just because of stuff like this.
Agreed. Our media is as much to blame as politicians.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:25 PM   #246
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Worse than sex offenders. Sex offenders did something wrong. Gun owners haven't. And by putting them on a map now guess where the bad guys are gonna break into when no one is home to still guns.
YouTube a video " innocence betrayed" the truth behind gun control.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:26 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by teknoid

They've outlawed releasing this information in some states. It's considered an invasion of privacy. I recall one place (Arkansas, I believe) where they published CC holders in the paper. The reporter was a bit peeved when all of his "personal" information was put all over the internet. Name, phone number, address, street view of his home, etc. After all, it was public information, right?

Revealing holder's info is bad news. Some of these folks are women with orders of protection on abusers, and they want to let that abuser know where the victim lives? Do we really want to let thieves know which home to burglarize when no one is there because it is more likely to have a gun to steal?
I mentioned I disagreed.
And the example you gave is great. Should not be released
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:35 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by fan of fanboys

I mentioned I disagreed.
And the example you gave is great. Should not be released
Nothing to do with the post above.

I was involve in a shootout in the desert with what I think might be drug runners. Only thing I can say is thank you glock and thank you savage or me and my friend would be dead. Even that his jeep Cherokee got shot up it still got us out of there.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:37 PM   #249
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Sparky, you make a valid point. Many 15-18yo "kids" in Chi-town are certainly adults, and bring firearm violence into their own lives through gang participation and drug envolvement seemingly voluntarily. Statistics prove this, yet gun violence stats are never adapted for it. Likewise, as I believe you also pointed out, the same tactic is employed by the other camp.

One thing to consider, and it's a bit of a rant:

It you feel you, or your decendants, want or need to EVER excercise self protection, consider suring up your stock. It is almost certain that Biden will come back saying we need stricter gun laws. 1st step is rewritting the 94 ban to include more firearms and accys. This will handily pass the House and Senate, because it is motion that looks like action. It is also likely this version will not sunset, meaning now may very well be the last time your family crest may purchase these items. Ever.

Think I am crazy? My Granfathers Grandfather, at 18, enlisted to defend his home against a mounting invasionary force of Americans. Would he have thought owning proper weaponry was foolish? Absolutely not, he took his rifle to VA with him. His grandfather fought an invasion, as well as his grandfathers father. If we accept 6 generations as the potential for trouble, we are a short 70 years or so from our next. I hope I am wrong, but history sure does ryhme with itself. With this in mind, could your family be responsible for its own defense, or that of your community?
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Old 12-25-2012, 01:19 AM   #250
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Sparky, you make a valid point. Many 15-18yo "kids" in Chi-town are certainly adults, and bring firearm violence into their own lives through gang participation and drug envolvement seemingly voluntarily. Statistics prove this, yet gun violence stats are never adapted for it. Likewise, as I believe you also pointed out, the same tactic is employed by the other camp.

One thing to consider, and it's a bit of a rant:

It you feel you, or your decendants, want or need to EVER excercise self protection, consider suring up your stock. It is almost certain that Biden will come back saying we need stricter gun laws. 1st step is rewritting the 94 ban to include more firearms and accys. This will handily pass the House and Senate, because it is motion that looks like action. It is also likely this version will not sunset, meaning now may very well be the last time your family crest may purchase these items. Ever.

Think I am crazy? My Granfathers Grandfather, at 18, enlisted to defend his home against a mounting invasionary force of Americans. Would he have thought owning proper weaponry was foolish? Absolutely not, he took his rifle to VA with him. His grandfather fought an invasion, as well as his grandfathers father. If we accept 6 generations as the potential for trouble, we are a short 70 years or so from our next. I hope I am wrong, but history sure does ryhme with itself. With this in mind, could your family be responsible for its own defense, or that of your community?
Defense against who? The US Armed Forces with a AR15?
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Old 12-25-2012, 01:58 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by fan of fanboys View Post
Well it goes for both sides of the party line.

And jeep analogy flawed.
If I sold for fair price instead of jacking up in beginning. Distrust from start.
Is $10K fair? If so that's the compromise. However if worth $8K but I want $10K bc off add ons or bc I just think special then holding at that price is no worse than person offering $3K.
Your example exactly what the problem is in our culture now.
Well if you think my analogy is what the problem with our culture is now, then it can hardly be flawed. That was exactly what it was intended to show.

But you misread it. It's not "distrust". If someone wanted to pay $10,999, then the seller would certainly take it. Nothing fraudulent there at all. But, on the other hand, since the buyer knows that the seller wants, then chops that by 70%, the offers to meet halfway, then the buyer clearly has no desire to compromise, but rather to make the seller out to be uncompromising.
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Old 12-25-2012, 07:34 AM   #252
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Defense against who? The US Armed Forces with a AR15?
It isn't out of the question. The FBI considered assassination of Occupy Movement demonstrators. I'm not siding with the Occupy Movement, but they have the right to demonstrate without being murdered by the government.

Proof:

Partnership for Civil Justice Fund - FBI Documents Reveal Secret Nationwide Occupy Monitoring

There are unclassified documents at the bottom of that page. Go to page 69 of the documents. It reads "interested in developing a long-term plan to kill Occupy leaders via sniper fire.
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Old 12-25-2012, 09:36 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by drossman

It isn't out of the question. The FBI considered assassination of Occupy Movement demonstrators. I'm not siding with the Occupy Movement, but they have the right to demonstrate without being murdered by the government.

Proof:

Partnership for Civil Justice Fund - FBI Documents Reveal Secret Nationwide Occupy Monitoring

There are unclassified documents at the bottom of that page. Go to page 69 of the documents. It reads "interested in developing a long-term plan to kill Occupy leaders via sniper fire.
Conspiracy theory BS.
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Old 12-25-2012, 09:48 AM   #254
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Conspiracy theory BS.
A credible source pointing to the same documents- FBI Investigated 'Occupy' As Possible 'Terrorism' Threat, Internal Documents Show

Kent State was not a conspiracy theory - Kent State shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The point is that our founding fathers created the 2nd amendment for good reasons. One of them being that citizens may some day need to defend themselves aganst tyranny. Its naive to think that tyranny isn't possible. A government's #1 priority is to stay in power. Citizens should be able to protect themselves if it happens.
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Old 12-25-2012, 09:49 AM   #255
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Yeah, you guys are right. Our govt is, and always has been, on the up & up. No civilians have ever been engaged by them. Except that thousands were.



Wake up. Take a history class. Or believe the shepards will always keep the wolves at bay for ya, I really do not care. I, however, will rely on no govt or man to defend myself, the same as my Fathers did before me. I will also pass this doctrination to my kinsmen, with a rifle, for as many years as we walk the Earth.

Now if your presmise is these weapons are inadequate to defend against an Army with, well you do not know much about insurgencies. Many insurgencies throughout history have made large, well equiped armies look downright foolish, and beat them.
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Old 12-25-2012, 09:58 AM   #256
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:00 AM   #257
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The federal government doesn't assassinate its citizens because it finds them inconvenient.

Those that are killed as a result of law enforcement's efforts to protect others from imminent harm are not "assassinated."

You sound like 9/11 "truthers" and moon landing doubters.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:03 AM   #258
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The federal government doesn't assassinate it's citizens because it finds them inconvenient.

Those that are killed as a result of law enforcement's efforts to protect others from imminent harm are not "assassinated."

You sound like 9/11 "truthers" and moon landing doubters.
Yet the White House has admitted putting Americans on Hit Lists and fatally engaging them with drone strikes, without trial or conviction. Because that would have been inconvinient, and they posed imminent harm, from 5000 miles away in a desert. And that is TRUTH.
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:25 AM   #259
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The federal government doesn't assassinate its citizens because it finds them inconvenient.

Those that are killed as a result of law enforcement's efforts to protect others from imminent harm are not "assassinated."

You sound like 9/11 "truthers" and moon landing doubters.
9/11 "truthers" and moon landing doubters ? That's a pretty weak argument and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Did you read the unclassified documents? Its all there in black and white - the fact that the FBI contemplated deadly force against inconvenient protestors. I'm sure that doesn't actually surprise many people.

The potential for tyranny exists even if you don't believe it. That's why we need the 2nd amendment intact.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:12 AM   #260
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Ruby Ridge
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:01 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by drossman

9/11 "truthers" and moon landing doubters ? That's a pretty weak argument and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Did you read the unclassified documents? Its all there in black and white - the fact that the FBI contemplated deadly force against inconvenient protestors. I'm sure that doesn't actually surprise many people.

The potential for tyranny exists even if you don't believe it. That's why we need the 2nd amendment intact.
Might as well quit using facts. It's not helping.
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:24 PM   #262
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So, small arms can't compete with the military? Ask the Soviets and our forces about that. They had no trouble at all In Afghanistan and Viet Nam, right?

Not to mention the fact that a large chunk of that military would likely be on our side.
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Old 12-25-2012, 01:39 PM   #263
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Ruby Ridge

The Branch Davidians, Timothy McVeigh


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Yeah, you guys are right. Our govt is, and always has been, on the up & up. No civilians have ever been engaged by them. Except that thousands were.



Wake up. Take a history class. Or believe the shepards will always keep the wolves at bay for ya, I really do not care. I, however, will rely on no govt or man to defend myself, the same as my Fathers did before me. I will also pass this doctrination to my kinsmen, with a rifle, for as many years as we walk the Earth.

Now if your presmise is these weapons are inadequate to defend against an Army with, well you do not know much about insurgencies. Many insurgencies throughout history have made large, well equiped armies look downright foolish, and beat them.
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So, small arms can't compete with the military? Ask the Soviets and our forces about that. They had no trouble at all In Afghanistan and Viet Nam, right?

Not to mention the fact that a large chunk of that military would likely be on our side.
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Might as well quit using facts. It's not helping.
Now you guys sound nucking futs. I can somewhat understand the hobby in AR's or 2A rights but the chicken little conspiracy theories are crazy not to mention thinking you can take on the US military.

Anyway, good luck with that fellows.
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:11 PM   #264
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Reading interpretation skills are not strengths for everyone.
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:35 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by hwy1rubi

The Branch Davidians, Timothy McVeigh

Now you guys sound nucking futs. I can somewhat understand the hobby in AR's or 2A rights but the chicken little conspiracy theories are crazy not to mention thinking you can take on the US military.

Anyway, good luck with that fellows.
Well it goes beyond the second amendment. If We The People continue to let the government molest the constitution American's will lose it's way of life. Our four fathers were born by revolution and know a thing or two how governments can be oppressive. The United States constitution has been a role model of nearly every democracy on the planet. So when my constitution is molested and interpreted for personal gain or votes. They are no longer doing what our fathers intended us to be. It has become a near crime to worship in public the very reason the mayflower made its way to the new world. This is just one sample.
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:44 PM   #266
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Reading interpretation skills are not strengths for everyone.
I know you were trying an insult but let me correct your terminology.

What's the difference between comprehension and interpretation?

"Comprehension is to understand or grasp something mentally interpret is to change from one form of language/communication to another."

Whats the difference between comprehension and interpretation? - Yahoo! Answers
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:16 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by hwy1rubi

I know you were trying an insult but let me correct your terminology.

What's the difference between comprehension and interpretation?

"Comprehension is to understand or grasp something mentally interpret is to change from one form of language/communication to another."

Whats the difference between comprehension and interpretation? - Yahoo! Answers
Awesome. Thanks. English is an intricate language and many words commonly use in wrong context. Was taught incorrectly. Won't make that mistake again.
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:19 PM   #268
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Awesome. Thanks. English is an intricate language and many words commonly use in wrong context. Was taught incorrectly. Won't make that mistake again.
No worries, interpret can be used during verbal conversations. As in, during the conversation he was trying to interpret what she meant by that statement.

Merry Christmas
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Old 12-25-2012, 08:47 PM   #269
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The Branch Davidians, Timothy McVeigh








Now you guys sound nucking futs. I can somewhat understand the hobby in AR's or 2A rights but the chicken little conspiracy theories are crazy not to mention thinking you can take on the US military.

Anyway, good luck with that fellows.
Not even close. You need to read up on the history of Ruby Ridge.
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Old 12-25-2012, 08:58 PM   #270
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Let me start with Merry Christmas, y'all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwy1rubi

The Branch Davidians, Timothy McVeigh

Now you guys sound nucking futs. I can somewhat understand the hobby in AR's or 2A rights but the chicken little conspiracy theories are crazy not to mention thinking you can take on the US military.

Anyway, good luck with that fellows.
Seriously? Camparing a family that was attacked by the FBI in broad daylight without the agents identifying who they were and an encampment possessing firearms in violation of US laws that allegedly sexually assaulted children and a man known by the FBI to be an active white supremacy fringe nut who had tried to illegally obtain explosives and nearly been kicked out of the klan for being too "extreme"?

Not a valid comparrison; yet if you read about the attack on the Branch Dividians you would know that the Nat Gaurd used tanks to run people over, inject toxic gases into a concrete bunker full of only unarmed women and children, and openly engage unarmed citizens and armed citizens trying to establish a cease fire from the beggining. They used their helicopters to fire down on them while on the phone with them saying the hilos had no weapons. Everyone involved in that raid should have been tried in court for attempted murder and violation of civil rights (though some were tried, and iirc, convicted for their crimes against the populace).

Wanna talk conspiricies? Read up on OK City, and the multiple news agencies citing 2nd and even 3rd bombs, plus eyewitnesses hearing multiple explosions, plus the asymmetrical destruction of the blast. Interesting facts. You know the FBI still refuses to release any security footage of the Murrah Federal Building, which was covered in cameras (particularly the open South streetside face, where the truck was parked)? Why? You see where the bangs happen, and who put them there. It couldn't have been one man given the evidence. But why is that a secret???

But not believing govt reports, apparently, makes me "nucking futs". If that be the determinate, I am guilty as charged. I don't like story time - I like to find facts.

Additionally, are you familiar with the fall of the Romans (or any great civ)? A well armed community will be essential to an American peace one day, on the local level. There will not be an Army to come protect you. To not believe this simplest of concepts is to ignore over 10k years of historical evidence, or probabilities presented through the repetition of similar cultural and societal follies. People do what people do, as a history prof put it to me once. My comments were not geared solely at defense from a national force, but any such aggresor you may find yourself entangled with.

And to all a Good Night. =)

Oh, and John Josling and his son Gabriel Joslin would beg to differ with your concept. See, they fought in the militias of VA and GA, respectively, and were itsrementally(?) important in defeating the worlds largest and best equiped army, the Red Coats and Dragoons of England. They did it with squrril hunting rifles, and were my Fore Fathers.

__________________
“Coming of age in a fascist police state will not be a barrel of fun for anybody, much less for people like me, who are not inclined to suffer Nazis gladly and feel only contempt for the cowardly flag-suckers who would gladly give up their outdated freedom to live for the mess of pottage they have been conned into believing will be freedom from fear.”
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