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Old 11-18-2008, 08:21 PM   #31
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So to put a finer point on it, should there be concern that the best soldiers are being drawn into private service? Is there a danger that the actual military, over time, could become a second class option with older technology, less armor, fewer benefits, etc. where the expendable poor go?

Also, not defending any of the respondents, but that is not a statistically valid survey is it?
Is this a shocker? Of course there should be some concern, but what's to be done about it? Many of the men who take the private sector work have already given many years of dedicated service to our country. Who is to say they HAVE to stay in the military and continue their job when they can get LITERALLY 4-5X their military pay from a company such as Triple Canopy, et al.?

Just the fact that we've given you and the rest of my country's citizens the right to the freedoms you all enjoy should be enough. What we choose to do POST MILITARY is really up to us. It's our freedom and our right.

Oh, most of the security firms like Blackwater and Triple Canopy, among others, almost always hire ONLY former military. So they're not really taking away the best soldiers, they're just giving us a home when we've done our part for our flag. Like I said, the end result is the same. Bad guys get to meet Allah......everyone wins.

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Old 11-18-2008, 08:23 PM   #32
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Oh scout, you got him all worked up again. It was just getting back to normal around here.
I'm just here to help.

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Old 11-18-2008, 08:24 PM   #33
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Is this a shocker? Of course there should be some concern, but what's to be done about it? Many of the men who take the private sector work have already given many years of dedicated service to our country. Who is to say they HAVE to stay in the military and continue their job when they can get LITERALLY 4-5X their military pay from a company such as Triple Canopy, et al.?

Just the fact that we've given you and the rest of my country's citizen's the right to the freedoms you all enjoy should be enough. What we choose to do POST MILITARY is really up to us. It's our freedom and our right.

Oh, most of the security firms like Blackwater and Triple Canopy, among others, almost always hire ONLY former military. So they're not really taking away the best soldiers, they're just giving us a home when we've done our part for our flag. Like I said, the end result is the same. Bad guys get to meet Allah......everyone wins.
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:24 PM   #34
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Normal isn't much fun though, I like it when folks stir the pot!
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:25 PM   #35
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I'm just here to help.
You're awesome.
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:39 PM   #36
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You're awesome.
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:43 PM   #37
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What is sad is that we have to have Private Military firms...
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:50 PM   #38
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What is sad is that we have to have Private Military firms...
Hey, the US Gov't can't get in trouble for something they didn't do.
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:52 PM   #39
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Also, not defending any of the respondents, but that is not a statistically valid survey is it?
Yes it is.
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:52 PM   #40
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From the website:
What does this prove? It isn't even much of a survey. You would have to survey thousands. What kind of results would have been shown if someone did the same thing with the McCain camp? There are two sides...
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:54 PM   #41
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Yes it is.
"Because obviously interviewing a relative handful of Obama voters, while interesting, is hardly scientific proof of anything"

No it's not and he even admits it...
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:58 PM   #42
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Yep, there are two sides. find evidence for your side or we win.

Seriously. The point is people generally don't put much effort into educating themselves. They rely on the media to feed them information and when that media is so thoroughly biased we get morons spouting nonsense about hope and change without understanding what they're hoping to change.
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:01 PM   #43
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"Because obviously interviewing a relative handful of Obama voters, while interesting, is hardly scientific proof of anything"

No it's not and he even admits it...
Cute edit.

Quote:
Because obviously interviewing a relative handful of Obama voters, while interesting, is hardly scientific proof of anything, we also commissioned a Zogby telephone poll which asked the very same questions (as well as a few others) with similarly amazing results.
Zogby Poll
Try harder.
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:03 PM   #44
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Yep, there are two sides. find evidence for your side or we win.

Seriously. The point is people generally don't put much effort into educating themselves. They rely on the media to feed them information and when that media is so thoroughly biased we get morons spouting nonsense about hope and change without understanding what they're hoping to change.
1st off this "interesting" website is 100% biased and shows no concrete evidence of anything. 2nd off, I agree, people need to get informed and vote based on their personal preferences and beliefs...not the media's.
Check out this "interesting" similar site that is "of the other side of the coin"..

John Mccain: Unfit to serve as Commander-In-Chief
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:07 PM   #45
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Cute edit.



Try harder.
The point is he didn't say what age groups, what ethnicities, what religions, etc...These are very important categories that need to be addressed to make any of his findings valid. And only like 512 people were interviewed...this is not even a reliable survey to the overall populous.
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:08 PM   #46
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Debating is fun isn't it?
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:28 PM   #47
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Debating is fun isn't it?
I don't see much of a "debate" going on here.

I just don't understand why anyone wastes their time rolling around in the mud w/ya (especially since you ain't jeep'n)!
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:30 PM   #48
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Good Job Scout.

Isn't your job as a Moderator to control these kind of threads?


Pot Stirrer!
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:35 PM   #49
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I don't see much of a "debate" going on here.

I just don't understand why anyone wastes their time rolling around in the mud w/ya (especially since you ain't jeep'n)!
x2
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:43 PM   #50
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The point is he didn't say what age groups, what ethnicities, what religions, etc...These are very important categories that need to be addressed to make any of his findings valid. And only like 512 people were interviewed...this is not even a reliable survey to the overall populous.
He doesn't need to, none of that is relevant to the point he's making.
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:46 PM   #51
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1
Check out this "interesting" similar site that is "of the other side of the coin"..

John Mccain: Unfit to serve as Commander-In-Chief
I don't see where this site is in any way similar and their own forums seem to disagree with the authors dislike for McCain and his willingness to promote rumor as fact.
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:54 PM   #52
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I don't see where this site is in any way similar and their own forums seem to disagree with the authors dislike for McCain and his willingness to promote rumor as fact.
This is where he lost me, it has nothing to do with voter responses and then "isn't debating fun".
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:19 PM   #53
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Good Job Scout.

Isn't your job as a Moderator to control these kind of threads?


Pot Stirrer!
It never hurts to spice up Off Topic.


(notice that I'm staying out of the debate? )
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:23 PM   #54
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Just the fact that we've given you and the rest of my country's citizens the right to the freedoms you all enjoy should be enough. What we choose to do POST MILITARY is really up to us. It's our freedom and our right.
OK, but that wasn't what I had hijacked the thread about.

It isn't about your freedom after your service, it is about whether a privately held company should be given taxpayer money to do a job the military has traditionally done. It seems to me to be an odd precedent and a slippery slope that could cause problems in the future and weaken the military.

Thanks for your response though, clearly you couldn't be more pro privatized military. That is a surprise to me.

http://www.newrules.org/voice2004/pr...itarypriv.html
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:42 PM   #55
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THIS IS BORING

Check this out!






I wrote out a huge post but deleted it and decided to go with the dancing cat because it's so stupid.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:46 PM   #56
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Privatized military is a result of beurocrats running wars. The missions that need to get done aren't politically correct. Lawyers set rules of engagement. The Military is shorthanded. Bad pay gets large numbers of gangsters and loosers recruited. Small increases in pay for highly trained professional soldiers causes low retention. Bad treatment of soldiers and families and lack of respect and pay for anyone who chooses the military as a career causes soldiers to leave after their 1st enlistment.
Private companies sidestep these problems and are attractive to soldiers (and govt). Want an example? Obama wants to release all detainees at Gitmo (sp). In the last group released (by Bush), 50 returned to fight and try to kill our boys. GREAT idea
That kind of BS is why soldiers leave.
I left after 11 yrs and wasn't alone. I got a degree, went into law enforcement and made a much better life for myself. I love our boys (and my son is one of them now), but they ALWAYS seem to get the shaft.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:48 PM   #57
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Privatized military is a result of beurocrats running wars. The missions that need to get done aren't politically correct. Lawyers set rules of engagement. The Military is shorthanded. Bad pay gets large numbers of gangsters and loosers recruited. Small increases in pay for highly trained professional soldiers causes low retention. Bad treatment of soldiers and families and lack of respect and pay for anyone who chooses the military as a career causes soldiers to leave after their 1st enlistment.
Private companies sidestep these problems and are attractive to soldiers (and govt). Want an example? Obama wants to release all detainees at Gitmo (sp). In the last group released (by Bush), 50 returned to fight and try to kill our boys. GREAT idea
That kind of BS is why soldiers leave.
I left after 11 yrs and wasn't alone. I got a degree, went into law enforcement and made a much better life for myself. I love our boys (and my son is one of them now), but they ALWAYS seem to get the shaft.
Exactly it shouldn't have to be that way. It's just so stupid if you think about it.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:49 PM   #58
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OK, but that wasn't what I had hijacked the thread about.

It isn't about your freedom after your service, it is about whether a privately held company should be given taxpayer money to do a job the military has traditionally done. It seems to me to be an odd precedent and a slippery slope that could cause problems in the future and weaken the military.

Thanks for your response though, clearly you couldn't be more pro privatized military. That is a surprise to me.

The American Voice 2004 - Issues and Allegations - Military Privatization
Well, your taxpayer money pays the military, so what is the issue?
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I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you with tears in my eyes, if you f**k with me, I'll kill you all.....
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:54 PM   #59
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Well, your taxpayer money pays the military, so what is the issue?
Well, I hope his point is why should we pay the military if we are going to pay the Mercs to do a job that we are paying someone else to do. At least that is how I feel...
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:16 PM   #60
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Morons can't tell the contractor how to do their job and if they do, the contractors can just cancel the contract. The military on the other hand, is a great place for the social experimentors to play with a captive audiance.

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