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Old 04-05-2010, 03:03 PM   #61
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LOL!!! There's always more to the story! It’s nice to see that the leaders of the movement try to separate themselves from guys like this. I still find it interesting that this guy is the founder of the website TeaParty.org. The three points that you listed are exactly what I am referring to when I mention that the Tea Party make some good points. But unfortunately, even when I see articles or clips from Right leaning sources, I can’t help but notice things like the Confederate Flag, Firearms being displayed, not to mention Pirates . . . what the hell is up with guys showing up dressed like Pirates, anyway? Perhaps you can tell me if the Tea Party leadership/organizers asked for this behavior to cease or made attempts to separate from those individuals as well? I can’t speak for others, but it’s enough to keep me away, even though I would probably agree with many of their points, I don’t care to associate or be identified along with some of these types. Not only are things like these (not to mention the more offensive examples that the leadership might actually address and admonish) a turn off to potential participants that might identify with the message, but they also tend to encourage the masses to write off the message based on the delivery, and give ammunition to the opposition. That’s the only point I’ve been trying to make this whole time . . . I just stumbled onto the other information and figured I’d post it up seeing that you were asking the questions.

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Old 04-05-2010, 03:49 PM   #62
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I still can’t come up with any free markets. It is all subsidies and tax breaks.

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Old 04-05-2010, 05:45 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmo View Post
LOL!!! There's always more to the story! It’s nice to see that the leaders of the movement try to separate themselves from guys like this. I still find it interesting that this guy is the founder of the website TeaParty.org. The three points that you listed are exactly what I am referring to when I mention that the Tea Party make some good points. But unfortunately, even when I see articles or clips from Right leaning sources, I can’t help but notice things like the Confederate Flag, Firearms being displayed, not to mention Pirates . . . what the hell is up with guys showing up dressed like Pirates, anyway? Perhaps you can tell me if the Tea Party leadership/organizers asked for this behavior to cease or made attempts to separate from those individuals as well? I can’t speak for others, but it’s enough to keep me away, even though I would probably agree with many of their points, I don’t care to associate or be identified along with some of these types. Not only are things like these (not to mention the more offensive examples that the leadership might actually address and admonish) a turn off to potential participants that might identify with the message, but they also tend to encourage the masses to write off the message based on the delivery, and give ammunition to the opposition. That’s the only point I’ve been trying to make this whole time . . . I just stumbled onto the other information and figured I’d post it up seeing that you were asking the questions.
I've never seen any pirates. There are a very few people who dress up in early American style costumes, and since the stereotypical image of a pirate comes from that era perhaps that's what you're seeing?
As for the rest, it's the nature of the beast. Any open event, especially a political event will draw people from the fringes. That has always been the case and I don't see any way to stop it unless you hold invitation only events and dictate what people can and can't say. Think of a political rally like a pep rally before a football game, they're much the same. Your ordinarily calm and professional coach gets up foaming at the mouth screaming about going out and destroying the other team. He does this to build enthusiasm in the team.
I'm not sure you would want to stop it really. Those people are useful in a way and the left has proven it works. Read rules for radicals by Saul Alinsky.
As for ammunition for the enemy, meh, they've proven over and over again that if they can't find it they'll make it up. And it can be very effective when you point out the raging Hypocrisy from the left and their media lapdogs.
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Old 04-05-2010, 05:49 PM   #64
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I still can’t come up with any free markets. It is all subsidies and tax breaks.
And you want to keep it that way why?
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:14 PM   #65
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And you want to keep it that way why?
I won’t address that because I never said or implied it. That tactic is so off the wall. Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

All I note is that you neglected to offer a single example of a free market.

Explain how farming in the US would work as a free market. Or pick any industry.
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:56 AM   #66
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I won’t address that because I never said or implied it. That tactic is so off the wall. Have you stopped beating your wife yet?
Hmm, you've been advocating for Obama in your own special way since you got here. The Obama administration is quite comfortable with government manipulation of private industry, in fact he's increased it dramatically since he took office. Since you continue support for him I assume you support his policies. I've also seen variations of your comment used many times in arguing against free markets. Since you continue to fail to make your position clear, you leave yourself open to interpretation. Don't get your panties in a knot if you don't like the interpretation.

Oh, and no wife beating here, Unlike some, I was raised to respect women. Even if that weren't the case , Amy owns more guns, knives and swords than I do and since I work nights. she's awake while I sleep and I'm not stupid enough to put myself up for the Bobbit award.

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All I note is that you neglected to offer a single example of a free market.
Umm, no, all you noted was that you were incapable of finding one. I wasn't aware that it was my job to provide you with one, especially since I wasn't discussing free markets with you.
Since you asked so nicely though, Hong Kong would be fairly close.

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Explain how farming in the US would work as a free market. Or pick any industry.
I would imagine somewhat like it did for hundreds of years before the fed started manipulating the market.
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Old 04-07-2010, 11:47 AM   #67
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So you have to go to China to find a free market. I just don’t get using free market as an ideal when it doesn’t exist in our country.

I have been an advocate for Obama’s policy to the extent you are an advocate for corporate welfare. I hear lots of talk about how we need free markets from people that have never seen one in action.

Read my posts, and I think you will find I have been a critic of Obama more than an advocate, but then putting words in my mouth gives you something to do. I see corporations offloading costs—health, environment, etc.—onto taxpayers (who are already saddled with regressive taxation and corporate welfare) as a primary issue rather than big government, which now only functions as a circus distraction while allowing corporate interests to craft the legislation they want. Why work so hard to keep the focus off the real problem?

How’s the gun law in Hong Kong anyway? I’m sure you would love the fresh clean air.
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Old 04-07-2010, 02:04 PM   #68
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So you have to go to China to find a free market. I just don’t get using free market as an ideal when it doesn’t exist in our country.
If it existed in our country then the protesters wouldn't need to list it as a point in their grievance with government.

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I have been an advocate for Obama’s policy to the extent you are an advocate for corporate welfare. I hear lots of talk about how we need free markets from people that have never seen one in action.
I have never advocated corporate welfare to the best of my memory, perhaps you can point to this?
If you remember correctly, I was against the bail outs. I'm against tax breaks that favor anyone. I'm against subsidies. Government has no business in business.

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Read my posts, and I think you will find I have been a critic of Obama more than an advocate, but then putting words in my mouth gives you something to do. I see corporations offloading costs—health, environment, etc.—onto taxpayers (who are already saddled with regressive taxation and corporate welfare) as a primary issue rather than big government, which now only functions as a circus distraction while allowing corporate interests to craft the legislation they want. Why work so hard to keep the focus off the real problem?
I have read your posts and I certainly didn't find anywhere near as much criticism as advocacy for Obama.
I'm not working to keep the focus off the real problem. I simply see the problem from a different perspective. I believe that if you limit the government's ability to do favors for business then you dramatically reduce business interest in meddling in government.
Advocating for a free market means ending corporate welfare as well. Corporate welfare in the form of tax breaks, subsidies and bailouts are as detrimental to capitalism as direct meddling.

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How’s the gun law in Hong Kong anyway? I’m sure you would love the fresh clean air.
Gun laws in Hong Kong are irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
I'm sure the air in Hong Kong is rather thick considering such a small area with such a large and robust economy but this is where most people misunderstand a free market. Free market does not mean a lack of reasonable environmental regulation. Complete lack of government regulation is a libertarian fantasy, no reasonable person would advocate for, or expect to get it.
Free market simply means a lack of government manipulation of the market. Reasonable environmental and legal protections against fraud, theft and monopolies would still be required as long as those laws applied to everyone equally.
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:16 AM   #69
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Complete lack of government regulation is a libertarian fantasy, no reasonable person would advocate for, or expect to get it.
Free market simply means a lack of government manipulation of the market. Reasonable environmental and legal protections against fraud, theft and monopolies would still be required as long as those laws applied to everyone equally.
Glad to hear you make this point.

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