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Old 10-30-2012, 05:44 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Big Lew View Post
EVERY ONE ELSE WAS DOPING???? are you sure that every person that raced in those races was doping? I could not agree with you at all on what you stated here.
Twenty of the twenty-one Tour de France podium finishers from Armstrong's era have been credibly linked to doping allegations. And that's just the guys on the podium.

Testimony is now coming out regarding a standing omerta among all riders.

So many were doping that cycling's governing bodies are going to make no effort to reallocate the titles or places from those years, as there are so many riders who have been linked to doping that it would be a hopeless endeavor to even try to find any "clean" riders to give the titles to.

Was literally everyone doping? Maybe not. But it was damn close, and it might have been everyone. So yes, I'm pretty sure.

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BTW......you do realize that people with tons of money HAVE TO look for something to write their money off with (donations)? Armstrong is the worst of the worst in my book . . . .
I do realize that qualified charitable contributions result in tax deductions. Beyond that, I'm not sure I see the point. Are you suggesting Armstrong started a charity from a grassroots base and brought it to international acclaim to achieve tax deductions? Were there not existing 501(c)(3) organizations he could have donated to without having to do all that work?

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and yes, I am a cancer survivor.
Hats off to you sir, and I hope you stay cancer free. I watched my dad fight it and lose. It's a terrible thing.

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Old 10-30-2012, 05:45 PM   #92
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interesting reading.....

Lance Armstrong has been stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and banned from cycling. Pat McQuaid, president of the International Cycling Union, the sport’s governing body, said Armstrong, “deserves to be forgotten.”
It may be that Mr. McQuaid’s words were exactly wrong and also a key to understanding the weakness in a man named Lance Armstrong.
Armstrong’s life story is, from a psychological perspective, less noteworthy for its triumphs than its tragedies, and his racing away from them seems to have failed, as it always does. In life, the truth always wins, no matter how cagey a person might think he is in outsmarting it.
Armstrong’s truth—and likely the driving force in his winning seven Tour de France titles while allegedly injecting himself with steroids and mainlining his own blood—is that his father abandoned him at age 2. To this day, Armstrong has refused to meet him. His mother then married another man with whom Armstrong did not get along, and with whom he has had no contact for years.
An abandoned and forgotten boy is—absent extraordinary healing—forever an abandoned and forgotten boy. Two years old is plenty old enough to be torn apart at the level of the soul by the abrupt severing, without explanation, of a father-son bond. It is plenty old enough to be shredded by the haunting suspicion that one is unworthy and unlovable. It is plenty old enough to set the stage for a decades-long race for enough fame and adulation to fill the emotional black hole inside you that keeps threatening to make you disappear into it.
Armstrong’s truth—and likely the driving force in his winning seven Tour de France titles while allegedly injecting himself with steroids and mainlining his own blood—is that his father abandoned him at age 2.
-


And, so, Armstrong seems to have pedaled faster and faster. And if his teammates and adversaries wondered how a man could be so driven as to declare himself a winner when he was not, again and again and again, to have seemingly no compunction about celebrating hollow victories, and to maintain a synthetic fiction in the face of seemingly incontrovertible fact, they need only remember the hollowness inside that man, born of being a forgotten boy—that black hole and the threat of complete psychological disintegration it represented to him, if only unconsciously.
If the contentions of the officials who banned Armstrong are correct, the vacuum of real self-esteem that could reside within him predicts that he will continue—probably forever—to deny that he ever used performance enhancing substances and keep fleeing his core feelings, until he can’t come up with any other way to dodge them.
So, he is likely now to try to reinvent himself—perhaps by starting his own cycling league, perhaps by starring in a reality show. Anything, but anything to avoid the reality that he was unloved by the first man in his life.
I hope my readers will not mind terribly much if I burden them with some of the finer psychological poetry of this forgotten, weak , boy-man named Armstrong. Because it is not lost on this psychiatrist that Lance Armstrong, in a game of tragic of one-upmanship spent his life racing away from other men, when his father raced away from him.
It is not lost on this psychiatrist that he allegedly spent decades injecting himself with male hormones, as if to be male enough to be a worthy son, rather than forgotten one.
It is not lost on this psychiatrist that the very attempt to cheat the truth—to bury grief and rage, rather than facing them—could turn one’s very manhood into a cancer and make malignant the most graphic anatomic symbol of masculinity and fatherhood.
And it is not lost on this psychiatrist that Pat McQuaid, president (father, if you will) of the International Cycling Union, would stumble into repeating the biggest psychological trauma in Armstrong’s life, by calling him “forgettable.”
Everything in the world and every person in it and every act is explainable. And, very often, the explanations are very sad, indeed.
You see, to truly Livestrong after being injured catastrophically as a boy by abandonment requires looking at your pain, sitting with it, really feeling it, not trying to outdistance it—which is impossible and a race to oblivion. It requires realizing that you were always loveable, even if you were unloved, and that false fame and a Superman-lean frame will only separate you from that healing reality, which many people correctly call God.
And, so, it is with that knowledge that I wish Lance Armstrong Godspeed on his continuing journey toward the certain knowledge that he was always a worthy person, even if his father was too broken to love him. That is the only race worth winning in Lance Armstrong’s life, and it is the beauty of this miraculous existence of ours, that it can still be won.

Dr. Keith Ablow is a psychiatrist.



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Old 10-30-2012, 05:47 PM   #93
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Lastly......

Be a follower of NO man.

Have a great day everyone!
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:48 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Big Lew View Post
Lance Armstrong has been stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and banned from cycling. Pat McQuaid, president of the International Cycling Union, the sport’s governing body, said Armstrong, “deserves to be forgotten.”





It may be that Mr. McQuaid’s words were exactly wrong and also a key to understanding the weakness in a man named Lance Armstrong.
Armstrong’s life story is, from a psychological perspective, less noteworthy for its triumphs than its tragedies, and his racing away from them seems to have failed, as it always does. In life, the truth always wins, no matter how cagey a person might think he is in outsmarting it.
Armstrong’s truth—and likely the driving force in his winning seven Tour de France titles while allegedly injecting himself with steroids and mainlining his own blood—is that his father abandoned him at age 2. To this day, Armstrong has refused to meet him. His mother then married another man with whom Armstrong did not get along, and with whom he has had no contact for years.
An abandoned and forgotten boy is—absent extraordinary healing—forever an abandoned and forgotten boy. Two years old is plenty old enough to be torn apart at the level of the soul by the abrupt severing, without explanation, of a father-son bond. It is plenty old enough to be shredded by the haunting suspicion that one is unworthy and unlovable. It is plenty old enough to set the stage for a decades-long race for enough fame and adulation to fill the emotional black hole inside you that keeps threatening to make you disappear into it.
Armstrong’s truth—and likely the driving force in his winning seven Tour de France titles while allegedly injecting himself with steroids and mainlining his own blood—is that his father abandoned him at age 2.

-


And, so, Armstrong seems to have pedaled faster and faster. And if his teammates and adversaries wondered how a man could be so driven as to declare himself a winner when he was not, again and again and again, to have seemingly no compunction about celebrating hollow victories, and to maintain a synthetic fiction in the face of seemingly incontrovertible fact, they need only remember the hollowness inside that man, born of being a forgotten boy—that black hole and the threat of complete psychological disintegration it represented to him, if only unconsciously.
If the contentions of the officials who banned Armstrong are correct, the vacuum of real self-esteem that could reside within him predicts that he will continue—probably forever—to deny that he ever used performance enhancing substances and keep fleeing his core feelings, until he can’t come up with any other way to dodge them.
So, he is likely now to try to reinvent himself—perhaps by starting his own cycling league, perhaps by starring in a reality show. Anything, but anything to avoid the reality that he was unloved by the first man in his life.
I hope my readers will not mind terribly much if I burden them with some of the finer psychological poetry of this forgotten, weak , boy-man named Armstrong. Because it is not lost on this psychiatrist that Lance Armstrong, in a game of tragic of one-upmanship spent his life racing away from other men, when his father raced away from him.
It is not lost on this psychiatrist that he allegedly spent decades injecting himself with male hormones, as if to be male enough to be a worthy son, rather than forgotten one.
It is not lost on this psychiatrist that the very attempt to cheat the truth—to bury grief and rage, rather than facing them—could turn one’s very manhood into a cancer and make malignant the most graphic anatomic symbol of masculinity and fatherhood.
And it is not lost on this psychiatrist that Pat McQuaid, president (father, if you will) of the International Cycling Union, would stumble into repeating the biggest psychological trauma in Armstrong’s life, by calling him “forgettable.”
Everything in the world and every person in it and every act is explainable. And, very often, the explanations are very sad, indeed.
You see, to truly Livestrong after being injured catastrophically as a boy by abandonment requires looking at your pain, sitting with it, really feeling it, not trying to outdistance it—which is impossible and a race to oblivion. It requires realizing that you were always loveable, even if you were unloved, and that false fame and a Superman-lean frame will only separate you from that healing reality, which many people correctly call God.
And, so, it is with that knowledge that I wish Lance Armstrong Godspeed on his continuing journey toward the certain knowledge that he was always a worthy person, even if his father was too broken to love him. That is the only race worth winning in Lance Armstrong’s life, and it is the beauty of this miraculous existence of ours, that it can still be won.

Dr. Keith Ablow is a psychiatrist.

Very interesting, yes. I saw that too back when it was first published. It's just a theory of course, but it is interesting. Like I mentioned in a prior post, it might not have been "all about the Benjamins."

And again, whether it's spot on correct or not is really not the issue. I'm not saying Armstrong's behavior was good and ethical. I'm objecting to the handling of the matter by the media and cycling's governing bodies, which want to make this all about Armstrong and are doing so by publicly excoriating him, when the reality Armstrong was in all likelihood merely a symptom of cycling's tremendously widespread doping problem.

I'm also lamenting the fact--well, I believe it to be fact--that had all of cycling been a clean sport, Armstrong would have competed clean and would have won just the same. But we as a sporting public have effectively been cheated out of that incredible performance.

Who shares the blame for that? No doubt part of it rests on Armstrong. But a lot of it rests on cycling as well--the powers that be just don't want to say that or have any of that attention directed their way. And so they beat the drum about Armstrong while they quietly clean house.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:12 PM   #95
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...That's tragic. What an awful choice to give a bunch of twenty-somethings who had spent their entire young lives trying to become pro...
The choice in SEC football locker rooms, ACC basketball locker rooms, and Ivy league rowing (no I'm kidding here) - It is an indoctrination of culture, unfortunately. Like the baseball analogy so many try to make: Nearly every record setting baseball allstar dopes. Period. It started long ago, and got big with Sosa, Clemens, Conseco, & Bonds. Worse, MLB knows it. BUT, you will not watch a 1-0 baseball game. 99% of Americans call that boring, 2 people playing catch, etc, etc. so they turn a blind eye to get 6-14 final scores, and a dramatic increase in sales. We all want to be there when that record was set, when Don Larson (right?) threw that final pitch, when Gale Sayers caught that record kickoff, when Phelps hit that wall, when Schumacher won the 8th circuit, etc. Owners are happy to oblige, at 55$ a seat and 10$ a dawg or beer.

That is the greatest shame. But no, our media must find a bad guy, so we can be good guys. There must always be a villan. Lance got the call, and no, it is not fair.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:21 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Big Lew
...
BTW......you do realize that people with tons of money HAVE TO look for something to write their money off with (donations)? ...
I presume you mean else the Big Bad Guberment come take it all? Shame it has to be that way to get those with the ability to to actually do it.

I agree there are much easier (and more lucrative) ways of obtaining writeoffs than starting any 501.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:53 PM   #97
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That is the greatest shame. But no, our media must find a bad guy, so we can be good guys. There must always be a villan. Lance got the call, and no, it is not fair.
Yup, agreed.
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:37 PM   #98
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Wow, you guys really have alot of time on your hands to discuss this in such depth...
Kudos to you for having such strong opinions and the time to express them!
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:07 AM   #99
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Wow, you guys really have alot of time on your hands to discuss this in such depth...
Kudos to you for having such strong opinions and the time to express them!


In fairness, I'm a lawyer who spends a LOT of time writing briefs, motions, etc. in complex civil litigation matters. I can write a lot, in a reasonably organized way, very fast. Probably a lot faster than most folks.

And yesterday was one of those writing days, meaning I could have WF running in the background pretty much all day.

But . . . I don't think there's any dispute that many of us waste . . . err, excuse me, "spend" . . . WAAAAAY too much time here.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:48 AM   #100
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In fairness, I'm a lawyer who spends a LOT of time writing briefs, motions, etc. in complex civil litigation matters. I can write a lot, in a reasonably organized way, very fast. Probably a lot faster than most folks.

And yesterday was one of those writing days, meaning I could have WF running in the background pretty much all day.

But . . . I don't think there's any dispute that many of us waste . . . err, excuse me, "spend" . . . WAAAAAY too much time here.
I hope you did not find my post offensive, but after reading it again I could see how that could happen. I had guessed that you were either an attorney or college level professor by your writing style.
In any event, there have been good points made on both sides of the discussion!
Carry on...
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:35 PM   #101
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I hope you did not find my post offensive, but after reading it again I could see how that could happen. I had guessed that you were either an attorney or college level professor by your writing style.
In any event, there have been good points made on both sides of the discussion!
Carry on...
Offensive? Nonsense--I saw truth!

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