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Old 11-09-2012, 09:59 AM   #61
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People are going to smoke weed weather its legal or not. Decriminalizing it would avoid a lot of good folks who just happen to like to smoke to be thrown in a cage like some kind of violent criminal. Making marijuana easy to acquire also takes all the power out of the drug dealers and the cartels because there will be no demand for their products.

It's funny to me when I hear conservatives talking about wanting small government, yet they want gov't to control what we as humans can consume. What's next? Controlling how much calories we can consume? Bring back the anger, I wanna live free, Don't tread on me!
I have no problem with making it legal. Once again sitting in a discussion group, with like responsible adults, that won't go driving around after partaking Is a different perspective than reality. I personally know a fellow jogger whose life was taken because of an individual who was not responsible enough to not get behind the wheel.

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Old 11-09-2012, 10:04 AM   #62
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I have no problem with making it legal. Once again sitting in a discussion group, with like responsible adults, that won't go driving around after partaking Is a different perspective than reality. I personally know a fellow jogger whose life was taken because of an individual who was not responsible enough to not get behind the wheel.
I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Was the driver drunk?

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Old 11-09-2012, 10:13 AM   #63
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for some reason people think only drunk drivers kill peope but so do stoned drivers. alcohol in the system is pretty easy to quantify ie breath test or blood test for BAC. One reason is years of studies have shown that say a bac of .08 (just a number because some are impaired at a much lower BAC) Those same studies have not been done on MJ for one thing there is no breath test to test for active nanograms of thc in ones system. There are have not been the studies to determine what amount of nanograms of thc is going to cause someone to be impaired. I personally don't care to be around drunks or stoners but to say stoners are always mellow when stoned is not true. I have seen plenty of stoners who are total assholes.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:21 AM   #64
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for some reason people think only drunk drivers kill peope but so do stoned drivers. alcohol in the system is pretty easy to quantify ie breath test or blood test for BAC. One reason is years of studies have shown that say a bac of .08 (just a number because some are impaired at a much lower BAC) Those same studies have not been done on MJ for one thing there is no breath test to test for active nanograms of thc in ones system. There are have not been the studies to determine what amount of nanograms of thc is going to cause someone to be impaired. I personally don't care to be around drunks or stoners but to say stoners are always mellow when stoned is not true. I have seen plenty of stoners who are total assholes.
A police officer can determine through a field sobriety check if the driver is under the influence of anything, be it alcohol, marijuana or other narcotics. The difference is that there is no way of measuring the drivers level of high, but it does give the police officer probable cause and allows the officer to search the vehicle and the drivers person. You can still be charged for DUI and not have had a drink, in Virginia atleast.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:49 AM   #65
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A police officer can determine through a field sobriety check if the driver is under the influence of anything, be it alcohol, marijuana or other narcotics. The difference is that there is no way of measuring the drivers level of high, but it does give the police officer probable cause and allows the officer to search the vehicle and the drivers person. You can still be charged for DUI and not have had a drink, in Virginia atleast.
In Montana too (charging is not as big of a problem as getting a conviction), but it is just harder to quantify, alchol is much easier and standard field sobriety maneuvers are readily accepted in most courts as are pbt results. Many officers are currently trained as DRE's but many are not. Many are also trained in A.R.I.D.E (advanced roadside impaired driving enforcement) but again many are not. In Montana we can not search without a warrant or consent, we can request sfst's if a person has shown signs of impairment but mj is just harder because there are no simple breath tests to take it to the next step. I have been doing this for 25 years and I don't want to be on the roadway with either drunks or stoners or texter for that matter.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:17 AM   #66
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People are going to smoke weed weather its legal or not. Decriminalizing it would avoid a lot of good folks who just happen to like to smoke to be thrown in a cage like some kind of violent criminal. Making marijuana easy to acquire also takes all the power out of the drug dealers and the cartels because there will be no demand for their products.

It's funny to me when I hear conservatives talking about wanting small government, yet they want gov't to control what we as humans can consume. What's next? Controlling how much calories we can consume? Bring back the anger, I wanna live free, Don't tread on me!
This is almost being done in NYC...
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:33 AM   #67
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Where did you hear this? Washington and Jefferson grew hemp, but it was as a cash crop, not for recreational use.

I've never heard that any "used" it. Do you have a reliable source?
Pot has been used for centuries for various purposes do you not think that these men did not know of the effects of this plant. they were the most educated informed men of their time. Times were much differant then. Their would have been no preformed opinions on smoking some weed. Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:37 AM   #68
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:41 AM   #69
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I'm willing to bet money those in here against legalization are the same folks who voted Romney so we don't "end up like Soviet Russia".
For someone who seems to be very well educated on the whole system of politics, this is the dumbest thing I've heard you say. Your previous arguments sounded intelligent and well researched, and then you drop a bomb like this. I respected your point of view (we share the same enthusiasm for Gary Johnson) until now.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:19 PM   #70
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For someone who seems to be very well educated on the whole system of politics, this is the dumbest thing I've heard you say. Your previous arguments sounded intelligent and well researched, and then you drop a bomb like this. I respected your point of view (we share the same enthusiasm for Gary Johnson) until now.
I second this

I voted for both mary Jane and Romney.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:25 PM   #71
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Pot has been used for centuries for various purposes do you not think that these men did not know of the effects of this plant. they were the most educated informed men of their time. Times were much differant then. Their would have been no preformed opinions on smoking some weed. Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
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NORML an unbiases source? Ummm....okay...

Amazingly enough, a search for the no-first-name-given "Dr. Burke, president of the American Historical Reference Society" a bunch of similar sites (and nothing for just "American Historical Reference Society").

I'm meant some type of peer-reviewed historical journal, etc...
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:26 PM   #72
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From a strictly logical point of view, if alcohol is legal, then Marijuana should be too. If you dont think weed should be legal, then you would have to also think alcohol should be criminalized as well. Further, have you ever heard of a guy getting stoned out of his mind and then beating the shit out of his wife/kids? Yeah, me neither... Realistically, alcohol and marijuana should be reversed. Alcohol is the dangerous one. It addicts and it kills. Weed doesn't addict, and I challenge you to point out someone overdosing on pot.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:11 PM   #73
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I don't think NORMAL is biased at all, what would ever give you the idea that they are nothing but honest upstanding journalist's. If it's on the internet it's got to be true, cause they can't put anything on the net that isn't true.

You just know George was sittin on his back poarch tokin on a fatty, suckin down some shine and letting his mind run wild.
And Ben, well hell you know he was gettin ripped and banging the slave girls.

Just my .02

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Old 11-09-2012, 02:18 PM   #74
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i second this

i voted for both mary jane and romney.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:25 PM   #75
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Facts about : Weed

Its not addicting! coffee is more addicting than it

No one in the entire history of the world has overdosed from it but people die everyday day from alcohol and cigarettes

Its a plant and naturally grown unlike other chemically made drugs

The smoke is heated plant matter and has no long term affects on your lungs or body but nicotine causes cancer
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:28 PM   #76
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From a strictly logical point of view, if alcohol is legal, then Marijuana should be too. If you dont think weed should be legal, then you would have to also think alcohol should be criminalized as well. Further, have you ever heard of a guy getting stoned out of his mind and then beating the shit out of his wife/kids? Yeah, me neither... Realistically, alcohol and marijuana should be reversed. Alcohol is the dangerous one. It addicts and it kills. Weed doesn't addict, and I challenge you to point out someone overdosing on pot.
X1,000,000!!!!!! I think it takes 900 full sized joints to OD. I can only get to #15 b4 i pass out with cupcakes and Cheetos all over me.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:32 PM   #77
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You may not die, but there are health affects.

And addiction is based mostly on someone personality, not the object. I know a few people that smoke all the time and everyday, I call that addiction. Also these two guys never move up in their workforce and I dont hang out with them (aquantences)
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:34 PM   #78
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Ask any pot head if they have ever smoked themselves sober. The answer will be Yes I have or I know someone who has. Now ask if any alcoholic has drank themselves sober. is death a form of sobriety?
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:41 PM   #79
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Facts about : Weed

Its not addicting! coffee is more addicting than it

No one in the entire history of the world has overdosed from it but people die everyday day from alcohol and cigarettes

Its a plant and naturally grown unlike other chemically made drugs

The smoke is heated plant matter and has no long term affects on your lungs or body but nicotine causes cancer
It has negative health effects it affects psycomotor reflexes and could just well be the same as driving drunk. Hallucinating and driving is just as bad. And again Opium is a plant why isn't there a push to legalize that? Cocaine comes from a plant, lets tax coke and heroine it will help us out and south america and afganistan!!
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:57 PM   #80
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It has negative health effects it affects psycomotor reflexes and could just well be the same as driving drunk. Hallucinating and driving is just as bad. And again Opium is a plant why isn't there a push to legalize that? Cocaine comes from a plant, lets tax coke and heroine it will help us out and south america and afganistan!!
x2 I love the old argument, its from the earth brooooo, its ok!

Bull crap, arsenic is natural and so is cyanide. That doesn't mean you smoke it.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:58 PM   #81
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X1,000,000!!!!!! I think it takes 900 full sized joints to OD. I can only get to #15 b4 i pass out with cupcakes and Cheetos all over me.





...Sorry, it had to be done.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:10 PM   #82
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Looks like the Govt needs to update its view on MJ: taken from the DEA website DEA Diversion Control - Controlled Substance Schedules

NOTE: Drugs listed in schedule I have no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States and, therefore, may not be prescribed, administered, or dispensed for medical use. In contrast, drugs listed in schedules II-V have some accepted medical use and may be prescribed, administered, or dispensed for medical use.

Schedule I Controlled Substances

Substances in this schedule have a high potential for abuse, have no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States, and there is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.
Some examples of substances listed in schedule I are: heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis), peyote, methaqualone, and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (“ecstasy”).
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:12 PM   #83
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Looks like the Govt needs to update its view on MJ: taken from the DEA website DEA Diversion Control - Controlled Substance Schedules

NOTE: Drugs listed in schedule I have no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States and, therefore, may not be prescribed, administered, or dispensed for medical use. In contrast, drugs listed in schedules II-V have some accepted medical use and may be prescribed, administered, or dispensed for medical use.
Schedule I Controlled Substances

Substances in this schedule have a high potential for abuse, have no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States, and there is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.
Some examples of substances listed in schedule I are: heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis), peyote, methaqualone, and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (“ecstasy&rdquo.
But why? Its natural. I would like to see what the goverment will say when they see me making ricin from castor beans i mean its natural you know.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:13 PM   #84
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...Sorry, it had to be done.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:22 PM   #85
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But why? Its natural. I would like to see what the goverment will say when they see me making ricin from castor beans i mean its natural you know.
Geez Louise, you are relentless. These are just OPINIONS - you have yours, I have mine. I think that marijuana is no worse than alcohol, and should be treated in a similar manner. I don't think taxpayer dollars should be spent on three hots and a cot for recreational pot smokers. I think it will provide much needed revenue as well as free up law enforcement, the courts and the overcrowded jails and prisons to do a better job preventing and punishing criminals who have actual victims.

I respect your right to an opinion, please respect mine.

p.s. I guess we cancelled out each other's votes anyway.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:23 PM   #86
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But why? Its natural. I would like to see what the goverment will say when they see me making ricin from castor beans i mean its natural you know.
Someone has been watching too much Breaking Bad lol. The point of quoting that is to show that they have it listed as a C1 substance. Which, by their own description, means theres no medical purpose. Well then how come there are medical dispenseries for it? On another note, I agree that the "its natural" comment should be removed from the arguments list.You should instead say "its not processed like the other drugs on that list"
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:50 PM   #87
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Geez Louise, you are relentless. These are just OPINIONS - you have yours, I have mine. I think that marijuana is no worse than alcohol, and should be treated in a similar manner. I don't think taxpayer dollars should be spent on three hots and a cot for recreational pot smokers. I think it will provide much needed revenue as well as free up law enforcement, the courts and the overcrowded jails and prisons to do a better job preventing and punishing criminals who have actual victims.

I respect your right to an opinion, please respect mine.

p.s. I guess we cancelled out each other's votes anyway.
I have nothing against your opinion again this is a free country and we all can speak our mind. I just believe money can be made/saved elsewhere not on MJ and prison over crowding can be relieved by stricter drug laws. I have nothing against any of you who support this law and im not trying to start a flame war here just stating my opinions.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:32 PM   #88
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I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Was the driver drunk?
No. He was high
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:56 PM   #89
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Hmm, my apologies for the misunderstanding. I did not, by any means, intend to imply all those who voted Romney were antipot, or thought America was becoming Soviet Russia. I meant to highlight that MANY who oppose pot also say we are becoming the USSR. That is doublespeak; they desire to limit the liberty of others while professing we are loosing individual liberty. In other words, of those opposing legalization, the vast majority voted red with the intention of saving freedom. I didnt even mean a Romney comment by it, although I think ya'll know how I feel bout him already. Fwiw, not all those that think bamers is bad are antipot, and not all those who think we are becoming USSR are anti bamers. That cover it all?

For those Highway Trooper and legal armchair folks:
As pointed out, LEOs can identify sobriety (or lack of) through a field test. If you fail, they can arrest you for suspicion of dui/dwi without other evidence of drug use. If a LEO smells weed, that is illegal. If they smell alcohol, it may not be. That is why we have monitors for level of drunkeness; we allow driving a little drunk in all 50 states. Most (if not all) states may issue a blood test mandate for those suspected of dui/dwi, any level of "narcotic" is fail.

Fact:
Weed is addictive, psycologically addictive. It is not physically addictive, like heroin, meth, pharms, coke, etc. - They cause both physical AND phsycological addiction. Not all people are suceptable to physco addiction, but the vast majority of humans are.

Fact:
You cannot OD on weed in the traditional since, it would suffocate you long before hitting that point. So in a sense, you can - by deprivation of oxygen.

Fact:
Burning any substance and inhaling the smoke is hazardous to your health. Some smoke is more hazardous than others. The notion that weed somehow escapes this is silly. There are non harmful ways of consumption, like ingestion (eating) of the fat soluble thc. This is how most cancer patients partake.

Fact:
The notion of high under MJ is different than hardcore, or processed, drugs. You can actually get high on weed. Ever known a heroin addict? I have, quite a few. They merely CHASE a high - never achieving. This is the physical addiction part.

Klkb - folks still make moonshine. It is a crime, but they do it anyway. Try as we may, we cannot stop it. Same with cultivation of weed - except we revenue at least millions from alcohol sales. We could realize similar income from weed, and while criminals would still self-cultivate, most law abiding stoners would be happy to catch a high on the tax system.

Backwards - I do not assume my fellow citizens are logical, informed, responsible, self-sufficient, or educated. I know, however, they are free, so granted by the Creator, as presented in Our Constitution. This gives them the right to decide what they do, so long as it does not infringe the rights of another.

The point is this: The Federal Govt came to America, the continent, a place MJ had been consumed for at least 4k years, and likely where it originated on Earth. Now they want to tell FREE citizens they can't do it. The Constitution does not give that ability to the US govt, it actually prohibits it in the 10th Amendment, the States right to self governence. It is a state issue, same as healthcare, welfare, abortion, civil unions, and frankly most issues you deal with in your life.

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Old 11-09-2012, 07:04 PM   #90
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Yj, moonshine us legal to make here in VA as long as you have a permit and follow FDA guidelines, the permit is $200,000

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