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Old 05-06-2009, 11:13 AM   #31
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Did the girl show poor judgement, sure. She was a 17 year old KID, not generally speaking the best and brightest segment of society. A police officer on the other hand is a person who must be able to be held up to the highest standards because of the position of authority they are in. How will anything this cop ever has to say in court again look after that 911 tape is played? Be it in front of a traffic court judge or a criminal jury, this officers word will no longer be automaticlly assumed to be better than a defendants, so how can he still be effective in his job?

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Old 05-06-2009, 07:18 PM   #32
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I think its just amazing that the general public think that just because of their position, police officers should be exempt from reaction when people are being retarded.

You need to remember that they are, get this, human. Let me ask you guys a question. Ever get fed up with people? Ever get edgy in the car on the trip to and from work? Ever display any behavior that would come off aggressive (i.e. flipping the bird, yelling at others in traffic)? Ever had a bad day at work and took it out on someone who didn't deserve it?
Like a few others said, yes police officers should be expected to have appropriate actions when people are being retarded. If you work in the service industry, and yes I would consider law enforcement a service industry, you have to deal with crap.

If a woman walks into a store complaining, and at first I ignore her complaints for a while (like when the girl had been trying to call dispatch but received no answer), then under her breath the woman calls me a bad name, but doesn't cuss me to my face, so I respond with, "well you are a *****", and guess what, I get fired, becuase I was not doing my job. Why should police not suffer the same consequences just because they are police?

Absolutely, I get fed up and loose my temper all the time, however most of the time I don't have nearly as good of reason as witnessing my father in a life or death situation. In my opinion this girl had all the reason in the world to loose her temper, yet she did not cuss at the cop, but to herself when she couldn't get through to dispatch, the cop then cussed at her...

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Old 05-07-2009, 12:31 AM   #33
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In police work there is always a back story the public doesn't know about. Here's an example. I took a ride-along. I stop a black guy, tell him to put his hands on his head, search him, find dope and arrest him. My ride-along says, you can't do that. It violated his rights and that's racism too. At first appearance it looks like he's right. The difference is that I work those streets everyday and he doesn't. What I knew that he didn't is that it was a high drug area, the guy was a drug dealer on parole and as such has no 4th ammendment rights against search and seizure. I know who the bad guys are...he didn't. It's common for people to think they know the situation when they really don't. 95% of the people are good citizens, but the police only deal with the 5% who are idiots. After a while you get to know the idiots and how they behave. We'll never get the whole story.

Just a little more. Law enforcement is NOT a service industry. By the very nature of the job 50% of your "customers" will be dissatisfied 100% of the time because cops have to choose sides. Who is right or wrong, who is the suspect or victim, who is lying, who is attempting skirt the system, who's a false witness. It looks a heck of a lot easier on TV. A good cop will make people angry and catch crooks. A bad cop makes everyone happy and like him, but the crooks get away. Which cop do you want when someone just tried to rape and kill you wife or mom. I'll take the cranky getto cop who curses, yells, fights and catches the bad guys. You can have the one who writes a report about how the bad guy got away, smiles a lot and is friendly to you.
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:05 AM   #34
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Just a little more. Law enforcement is NOT a service industry.
service industry and public service are two different things. i'll agree everybody you arrest probably hates you, but the nature of police work is to serve/protect the public. if you cant set your ego aside to call someone an ambulance, theres a problem
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Old 05-07-2009, 01:08 PM   #35
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In police work there is always a back story the public doesn't know about. Here's an example. I took a ride-along. I stop a black guy, tell him to put his hands on his head, search him, find dope and arrest him. My ride-along says, you can't do that. It violated his rights and that's racism too. At first appearance it looks like he's right. The difference is that I work those streets everyday and he doesn't. What I knew that he didn't is that it was a high drug area, the guy was a drug dealer on parole and as such has no 4th ammendment rights against search and seizure. I know who the bad guys are...he didn't. It's common for people to think they know the situation when they really don't. 95% of the people are good citizens, but the police only deal with the 5% who are idiots. After a while you get to know the idiots and how they behave. We'll never get the whole story.

Just a little more. Law enforcement is NOT a service industry. By the very nature of the job 50% of your "customers" will be dissatisfied 100% of the time because cops have to choose sides. Who is right or wrong, who is the suspect or victim, who is lying, who is attempting skirt the system, who's a false witness. It looks a heck of a lot easier on TV. A good cop will make people angry and catch crooks. A bad cop makes everyone happy and like him, but the crooks get away. Which cop do you want when someone just tried to rape and kill you wife or mom. I'll take the cranky getto cop who curses, yells, fights and catches the bad guys. You can have the one who writes a report about how the bad guy got away, smiles a lot and is friendly to you.
first off, thanks for your service. I completely understand what you are saying about having to deal with the scumb of the earth, and most of the time the guys get exactly what they deserve.

Police are payed by tax dollars, their purpose is to serve and protect, while agreed police dont have to be nice to everyone they encounter (although through my experience %95 of the time they are), they must be professional.

we probably aren't going to see eye to eye on this, but I would think most people would agree the officers actions were certainly un professional, if not unethical as well.
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Old 05-07-2009, 04:06 PM   #36
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It's all about judgment. I have worked a couple of shifts on the phone before, and I guess considering the number of breaks I've given, the cumulative total would probably add up to a lot of shifts worth of being behind the phone answering 911 calls. Some people cuss, and you have to use your judgment. I always told people that I needed them to speak clearly and concisely, and cussing at me was not going to help me get anyone there any faster (when I was relieving for breaks, it was oftentimes me that was going to respond). If I responded to the call I answered, I would have a chat with said individual about their language.

You just don't want to turn anything into an argument over the phone when there is a potential problem going on. In other words, don't create any more problems than there already are. If a dispatcher took flak from someone on the phone, they simply sent a message over the MDC, or made a quick phone call to one of us, and we got our point across to the caller when we arrived.

A friend of mine, who is a dispatcher, had a lady call once about her "out of control" daughter. He asked her if she wanted officers to come over and shoot her. The lady didn't think it was funny. It made for good headlines though.
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Old 05-07-2009, 04:29 PM   #37
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A friend of mine, who is a dispatcher, had a lady call once about her "out of control" daughter. He asked her if she wanted officers to come over and shoot her. The lady didn't think it was funny. It made for good headlines though.
Now to me thats funny! Not very professional, but funny.
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Old 05-08-2009, 01:48 AM   #38
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I'm not defending being unprofessional. I'm saying there is usually a back story you don't know about. Just because you and I don't know the caller and therefore give her the benifit of the doubt, doesn't mean she deserves it. I know a lady that calls 911 a few times a week saying she's being beaten up. New dispatchers believe her and send help immediately. Veteran dispatchers know she calls in BS all the time, waisting valuable time and making real victims wait longer. If she really was being beaten, she wouldn't get much of a response because she is like the boy who cried wolf. All I'm saying is the public (that's you) doesn't usually get the whole story and the tape doesn't tell the back story. The cop will NEVER get to tell his side.
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Old 05-08-2009, 06:50 AM   #39
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I'm not defending being unprofessional. I'm saying there is usually a back story you don't know about. Just because you and I don't know the caller and therefore give her the benifit of the doubt, doesn't mean she deserves it. I know a lady that calls 911 a few times a week saying she's being beaten up. New dispatchers believe her and send help immediately. Veteran dispatchers know she calls in BS all the time, waisting valuable time and making real victims wait longer. If she really was being beaten, she wouldn't get much of a response because she is like the boy who cried wolf. All I'm saying is the public (that's you) doesn't usually get the whole story and the tape doesn't tell the back story. The cop will NEVER get to tell his side.
Given there was a legitimate medical emergency, what possible back-story would change this situation? In theory, we could make the back-story claim for almost any situation and never form a critical opinion about anything. I have a hard time, in this particular situation, imagining what a scenario might be that would change the responsibility of the police/dispatch.

If you read my previous post in this thread, you would notice I mention throw-down weapons. Each cop I spoke with defended this practice. Their back story was that they knew the bad guys and if they happened to shoot and kill one they thought was armed who wasn’t this allowed them to protect the good guys from prosecution. Although I am empathic to their feelings I strongly disagree with their stance, because it is a fundamental breaking of the law to avoid a risk that is part of the job.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:20 AM   #40
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This is one reason street officers should not dispatch at all...
the officers actions if it went in any way like the story was way out of line ,And the 17 y/o with no regard for authority should not have been cursing the officer ect.... I say both were at fault and a suspension and retraining was a good call for the chief. And just a quick question for the nay Sayers, Why is it when a story like this comes out all we hear is "OH I knew a cop who Bla, Bla, Bla on the wrong sideof the law"?. Why is everybody so quick to attack LEO's? why not Oh I knew a cop who did something good story?. Not bitching because I've been cursed so many times I don't even hear them anymore. And believe it or not, Here it goes "NOT ALL COPS ARE BIG BAD EGO TOTING AUTHORITY ABUSING CRIME COMMITTING ASSHOLES" some do their jobs because it is what they want to do. So in closing my soap box allotted time I'll say bash away at the Po-PO but we'll see you when you have an emergency and we are once again called to duty..... Peace out.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:27 AM   #41
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Read the post. Their are probably more pro-cop comments than con. Even my stories are clear that I’m talking about a minority. How many posts have you made highlighting cops performing feats of wonder? Society is set up so that we defer to anyone in a uniform—doctor, priest, judge, cop, soldier. The fact that stories where the trust is broken make the news should not be a surprise.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:43 AM   #42
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Oh I post numerous pro-cop post as well as negative ones but in a secured forum. And my post were specifically for the nay Sayers (welcome to go back and read it if ya want). Thing is most people only see LEO under two circumstances (1) when they break the law (2) when they need some sort of help or for reporting. Like I have said I know there are bad apples in the profession no doubt there...But there are far more good ones. Just to let everybody know that probably 99% of police officers know that they are the unloved and most like myself have accepted it. But when you make a traffic stop and arrest a kidnapper who was on their way out of town and return the child, Or when you go on a well fair check of a 80 something y/o man and find him on the floor and have the EMT's respond in time to save the mans life. And the list goes on it's then you realize the hateful things said about you don't matter for $h!t.. I'm cool your cool now lets get beer already.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:19 AM   #43
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it's then you realize the hateful things said about you don't matter for $h!t..
Don't forget the FBI's 'one free kick' rule.
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Old 05-08-2009, 11:19 AM   #44
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The cop will NEVER get to tell his side.
Why? it's a free country. The tapes are a matter of public record. The trial will be a matter of public record. The arrest report may be a matter of public record(not sure on this since she's a minor)
If there's a back story, if there's is any possible, reasonable excuse for the officers behavior, it would be in both his and his communities best interest to tell that story, otherwise the community that employs him will lose faith in their police department and he will always be seen as an inconsiderate piece of crap.

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This is one reason street officers should not dispatch at all...
the officers actions if it went in any way like the story was way out of line ,And the 17 y/o with no regard for authority should not have been cursing the officer ect.... I say both were at fault and a suspension and retraining was a good call for the chief. And just a quick question for the nay Sayers, Why is it when a story like this comes out all we hear is "OH I knew a cop who Bla, Bla, Bla on the wrong sideof the law"?. Why is everybody so quick to attack LEO's? why not Oh I knew a cop who did something good story?. Not bitching because I've been cursed so many times I don't even hear them anymore. And believe it or not, Here it goes "NOT ALL COPS ARE BIG BAD EGO TOTING AUTHORITY ABUSING CRIME COMMITTING ASSHOLES" some do their jobs because it is what they want to do. So in closing my soap box allotted time I'll say bash away at the Po-PO but we'll see you when you have an emergency and we are once again called to duty..... Peace out.
Because many of us know a cop or 20 who bla bla bla on the wrong side of right.
I deal with cops on a disturbingly regular basis in my profession, I've run into enough ego tripping ass wipes behind badges to fill a thread, and certainly enough to leave me with a bad impression of the profession as a whole... if it weren't for the fact that the vast majority of the cops I've had to deal with were courteous and professional in doing their jobs.
There are bad cops and it shouldn't offend other cops when one is pointed out, it doesn't mean you are a bad cop and it doesn't mean all cops are bad, only a moron would condemn an entire community based on the actions of one individual and I don't see where anyone in this thread has done so.

Now this is how a professional deals with foul language on a 911 call.(NSFW, foul language)
Deer and an Ambulance 911 call Audio Clip
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Old 05-08-2009, 11:26 AM   #45
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See, the deer should not be penalized and denied medical attention because the caller is an inbred half-wit.
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Old 05-08-2009, 11:49 AM   #46
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For all you LEO's here. I really don't think this is a Blanket Bashing of cops. We are just discussing this one incident. With present technologies this type of behavior is easier to spot than just a few short years ago. The press and private citizens have access to it and I think its a good thing. There really are a very few bad law enforcement officers out there and they need to be removed from the system. There is no room for that type of individual in law enforcement. You guys have a tough job and the bad apples are making it harder for you. In the Fresno area in the last couple of months there have been a couple of incidents that have removed several officers from duty.
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Old 05-08-2009, 12:25 PM   #47
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4Point, Jupiterboy it's all good no prob we know everybody has had a bad run in of sorts with LEO and may have a gripe or two. But we are here as a Jeep brotherhood (and sisterhood for the ladies) . So how bout that Beer?
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Old 05-08-2009, 12:33 PM   #48
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It is past noon.
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Old 05-08-2009, 01:25 PM   #49
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You guys have a tough job and the bad apples are making it harder for you. In the Fresno area in the last couple of months there have been a couple of incidents that have removed several officers from duty.
What you consider a "bad apple" is generally a little ole reprimand at most companies, they just don't air their dirty laundry on the 5 o'clock news so people who aren't "in the know" can demand a public hanging of those involved.
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Old 05-08-2009, 01:33 PM   #50
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People get away with everything all the time, cop or not, public servant, private sector, parent, preacher, whatever.
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Old 05-08-2009, 02:11 PM   #51
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People get away with everything all the time, cop or not, public servant, private sector, parent, preacher, whatever.
yup.

hey, we actually agree on that.
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Old 05-08-2009, 02:15 PM   #52
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and skeet, that link, while a tremendous abuse of the public safety system, and a stupid waste of valuable time that could have taken away from a true emergency... was fricken hilarious.
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Old 05-08-2009, 05:47 PM   #53
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The cop doesn't get to tell his side of the story and your comment proves you don't get it. Cops give up their rights to protect yours. Officers are barred from making comments without the consent of there bosses about anything on duty. That includes off duty too, if the comment is about your employer or you say, I'm employed by.....before you make the comment. We also give up 5th Amendment rights, or risk termination. The courts also have said we have to help people off duty too. That's right...you get to run away....we don't. We know the deal when we sign up, but it's hard to get bad mouthed and not defend yourself. I know Jupiter Boy has been repressed by cops his whole life, while they deal in coruption and plant drugs and guns on poor innocent victims. Maybe he's from Chicago. I admitt places back east and in the south often hire cops with the same qualifications as trash men. In my department all my friends and I are military veterans with BA or Masters degrees and undergo a solid year of Academy and FTO training before they can do anything alone. We are PROFESSIONALS. Did you get that much training before you got hired at your job? I bet not. Being a cop is a lot like being a pro athelete. Everyone demands perfection and can do your job better than you from the comfort of their couch.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:15 PM   #54
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The cop doesn't get to tell his side of the story and your comment proves you don't get it. Cops give up their rights to protect yours. Officers are barred from making comments without the consent of there bosses about anything on duty. That includes off duty too, if the comment is about your employer or you say, I'm employed by.....before you make the comment. We also give up 5th Amendment rights, or risk termination. The courts also have said we have to help people off duty too. That's right...you get to run away....we don't. We know the deal when we sign up, but it's hard to get bad mouthed and not defend yourself. I know Jupiter Boy has been repressed by cops his whole life, while they deal in coruption and plant drugs and guns on poor innocent victims. Maybe he's from Chicago. I admitt places back east and in the south often hire cops with the same qualifications as trash men. In my department all my friends and I are military veterans with BA or Masters degrees and undergo a solid year of Academy and FTO training before they can do anything alone. We are PROFESSIONALS. Did you get that much training before you got hired at your job? I bet not. Being a cop is a lot like being a pro athelete. Everyone demands perfection and can do your job better than you from the comfort of their couch.
I don't think that has been the theme of this thread.
I would argue that the public has everyright to second guess the actions of police. Policmen, no matter how honest or noble, must be held accountable for their actions. I think this is simply a case of holding someone accountable for their actions.

Personally, I hope the girl hires a good lawyer and takes the guy to the bank in civil court, she certainly has a winnable case, all she must prove is that he violated a duty of care, which he owed to her. I think the tape makes that pretty obvious.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:08 PM   #55
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Im not saying police shouldn't be accountable. I'm saying the video or audio usually doesn't tell the whole story and civilians who don't understand the way things really work, often feel they do. Just because you watch cops, saw a video or love CSI doesn't make you understand the whole story from a small audio clip. There is always more to it. In the real world nothing is that simple. What do you think of the Rodney King video? Corrupt cops beating a poor innocent black man right? Try Felon with well over 3 strikes, on PCP, feels no pain, super human strength and lasts a hell of a lot longer than the 10 seconds the public saw. That is why when a jury saw the whole thing, no charges were brought against the cops....things are not always as they appear or as the media portrays them. That is the only point I'm trying to make. I'm not defending the cops, I'm saying that you should stop passing judgement based on a narrow slice of the whole picture. You would demand no less for yourself, but want the cops head on a stick without letting him have his day to defend his actions.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:27 PM   #56
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Im not saying police shouldn't be accountable. I'm saying the video or audio usually doesn't tell the whole story and civilians who don't understand the way things really work, often feel they do. Just because you watch cops, saw a video or love CSI doesn't make you understand the whole story from a small audio clip. There is always more to it. In the real world nothing is that simple. What do you think of the Rodney King video? Corrupt cops beating a poor innocent black man right? Try Felon with well over 3 strikes, on PCP, feels no pain, super human strength and lasts a hell of a lot longer than the 10 seconds the public saw. That is why when a jury saw the whole thing, no charges were brought against the cops....things are not always as they appear or as the media portrays them. That is the only point I'm trying to make. I'm not defending the cops, I'm saying that you should stop passing judgement based on a narrow slice of the whole picture. You would demand no less for yourself, but want the cops head on a stick without letting him have his day to defend his actions.
We could argue that point all day long. Anything anybody opines on or criticizes, a party could easily say, well they don't understand. That is a never ending argument.

I really do respect LEO's service, but I have to be honest man, this attitude of "all civilians are ignorant and they don't understand anything like us LEO's do" is not doing anything to help the way the public percieves law enforcement.
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:28 PM   #57
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what do you think we might be missing that would make it ok to deny medical assitance to someone who needed it? theres very few excuses i can even think of.....
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Old 05-08-2009, 11:50 PM   #58
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She could be a nut who calls in fake crap every night and wastes valuable resources. That type of stuff happens all the time. I'm not saying it isn't unfortunate, but I've seen too much to blindly condem the officer without hearing his side. I know many think I'm defending the thin blue line, I'm not. My opinion is based on a lot of experience with situations few people have to deal with. I could give you crazy stories of stuff all night that you wouldn't believe. More often the story is... crazy person calls in stuff like this and while emergency services are responding to her crap, someone else in the city who needs real help gets to wait. The point is that police make life and death decissions every day in that same way many of you make dicissions of what to buy at the store. Sometimes your wrong. Sometimes your not and sometimes you're in a catch 22. When cops screw up and get fired, unlike most jobs, you don't get a second chance at the job somewhere else very often. When cops sue to get there jobs back, over 90% are rehired when a jury hears what really happened. There is a reason for that. The whole story is important. Real oversite does not come from the press and an edited sound bite.
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Old 05-09-2009, 11:13 AM   #59
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She could be a nut who calls in fake crap every night and wastes valuable resources. That type of stuff happens all the time.
An honest question here. because I really do not know the policy about it. Even if a person is known to make phony calls all the time, what are the rules to deal with it?
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Old 05-09-2009, 01:37 PM   #60
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It's a good question and you already know the answer. The problem is do you do what is right, or do what is right. By policy you send paramedics. Here's the issue. Things in the real world aren't always that cut and dry. Spend a night holding a young mother in your arms after a terrible car wreck as her child looks on and she bleeds out while you wait for the paramedics to get there. They take too long because some idiot is using paramedics for a free ride to the hospital because she's drunk, cold and transient. The next time some idiot makes a call like that you would have to be inhuman not to think about what happened to that young mother last time. These types of things happen for real in law enforcement. That is why I'm so defensive. While we disagree on some things, you seem like a good person. I honestly do believe that if you experienced the same things I have, you might start to see things in a way that is not so black and white. If not, I still respect your opinion.

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