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Old 06-28-2011, 06:50 PM   #1
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Mma/ufc

Anyone here a fan?

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Old 06-29-2011, 09:55 AM   #2
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Here!

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Old 06-29-2011, 11:04 AM   #3
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Do you watch all the ppv? Just ufc or watch strikeforce and such as well? What upcoming fight most interested in?
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:41 AM   #4
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I havent watched a ppv in awhile but im interested in the faber fight coming up.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:01 PM   #5
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PPV gets a little expensive, I need to save money for my Jeep .
I would like to see Dominic Cruz defend his title, Wanderlei Silva knock Chris Leben out and Tito Ortiz take Ryan Bader (which I doubt it). Laters,
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:02 PM   #6
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Here!! We use to get all the PPV but now there are so many that it get to be to much. So not looking forward to seeing Tito. Never been a fan.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:10 PM   #7
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I go in with couple guys. We are each out about $25 (ppv is 45, rest on beer). Pretty cheap night out all in all. So I never miss. Plus the fights on spike, hdnet, Showtime, and versus.

Y'all should go to buffalo wild wing. No cover for ppv.

Tito will lose. So will silva. Chris will beat him. Odds are Cruz will win as well tho I give faber about 30%. I bet on most fights so follow lines close.

This fall lining up to be huge fights. Really looking forward to it.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:12 PM   #8
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Big fan. It's the only sport I follow.

Sucks for Marquardt.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:16 PM   #9
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I enjoy the light weights, but the heavy weights don't catch my attention. I find striking to be much more entertaining than grappling.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:22 PM   #10
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I enjoy the light weights, but the heavy weights don't catch my attention. I find striking to be much more entertaining than grappling.
Lot more depth at lighter weights.

I wrestled college and do jiu Jitsu now so I love ground game. But I like a technical exciting fight regardless where it takes place. Don't want brawls or stalling.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:24 PM   #11
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Big fan. It's the only sport I follow.

Sucks for Marquardt.
He is bit of a scapegoat but also own fault. Not first time busted. Good fighter. Will do well in bellator. Askren already called him out.

I watched Ben and his little brother win national title in college. Fans of both. Funk wrestling is great.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:37 PM   #12
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Lot more depth at lighter weights.

I wrestled college and do jiu Jitsu now so I love ground game. But I like a technical exciting fight regardless where it takes place. Don't want brawls or stalling.
Kinda reminds me of this...

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Old 06-29-2011, 12:43 PM   #13
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Kinda reminds me of this...

Stupid iPhone. Couldn't get it to play. Android was much better for that. But from comments seems like Mma guy won?

Makes sense. Guy with more options usually does. No better sport on planet right now.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:47 PM   #14
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But from comments seems like Mma guy won?

Makes sense. Guy with more options usually does. No better sport on planet right now.
MMA fighter won in 44 seconds. TKD fighter couldn't fight from the ground and got body slammed on his neck.

Try this one.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:58 PM   #15
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MMA fighter won in 44 seconds. TKD fighter couldn't fight from the ground and got body slammed on his neck.

Try this one.
In a controlled environment ground fighting is superior to stand up, all other things being equal. An elite wrestler will always have control and will pound out a win with enough time. Elite jiu Jitsu will always get a form of submission with enough time.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:26 PM   #16
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That's a pretty generalized statement..... So many of the current rated guys are experts in several disciplines that will dominate matched up against a hi caliber wrestler or stand & strike guy. In today's arena, you've got to be diversified in your training.....all the heart in the world won't make up it.....look at JSP... He dominates everyone that challenges him.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:45 PM   #17
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He is bit of a scapegoat but also own fault. Not first time busted. Good fighter. Will do well in bellator. Askren already called him out.
The problem though is that Marquardt fully disclosed his treatment to both the UFC and the athletic commissions.

Because he had fully disclosed, he was subject to pre-fight blood screens to insure his testosterone levels weren't too high. When, after he discontinued his prescribed testosterone use at the request of the NJ Comm'n and then restarted after the Comm'n was satisfied, he ended up with too much in his system when he followed his doctor's advice regarding dosage. Subsequent pre-fight screens found him still too high, he couldn't be cleared to fight, the main event was scuttled, and the UFC fired him for it.

By contrast, if Marquardt had instead hid his testosterone supplementation like Chael Sonnen did prior to his fight with Silva, Marquardt wouldn't have been subject to any pre-fight blood screens. The fight would've gone on and Marquardt only would've been "caught" afterwards. But at least the main event of a televised card wouldn't have imploded the day before it was supposed to be held. And, like Sonnen, I suspect he would've been put on suspension by an athletic commission but at least gotten to keep his job.

I'm fine with him not being able to fight with too much testosterone in his system, but I think it sucks that he effectively got fired as a consequence of full disclosure. That's not a good anti-doping precedent. The incentive created is, obviously, not to disclose.

Personally, I think TRT shouldn't be allowed at all. But right now, it is so long as it's doctor prescribed and accepted by the athletic commission. This was the case with Marquardt, who even took it a step further and disclosed it to the UFC long before any issue came up with last weekend's main event.

So, absent banning TRT altogether, my solution for Marquardt would've been no fight, no show money, but keep job. Had he not fully disclosed and the fight went on, I would've liked to see the UFC force him to forfeit his purse and fire him. That keeps the incentives correct and discourages TRT unless you really, truly need it. In the event the athletic commissions start banning TRT altogether, then I would gladly make it a fireable offense at all times regardless of doctor prescriptions or disclosures.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:54 PM   #18
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That's a pretty generalized statement..... So many of the current rated guys are experts in several disciplines that will dominate matched up against a hi caliber wrestler or stand & strike guy. In today's arena, you've got to be diversified in your training.....all the heart in the world won't make up it.....look at JSP... He dominates everyone that challenges him.
Was meant to be generalized. No one in top 20 in any weight class is one dimensional anymore. And the most elite guys are high level in multiple facets. But even they have one skill since childhood they fall back on when everything else fails. And in my statement I mentioned in a long enough time, which isn't applicable under the unified rules.

But if you look at current champs in ufc there are 7 weight classes. 4 of those champs primary strength is wrestling. Wrestling controls fights. There is no better base. Some use the wrestling to keep standing like Liddell or rashad. Some use it to keep on ground. Many great disciplines.

I am sure you meant gsp. He is currently exception to rule as well bc no one else as well rounded. One day will see more guys like him.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:59 PM   #19
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The problem though is that Marquardt fully disclosed his treatment to both the UFC and the athletic commissions.

Because he had fully disclosed, he was subject to pre-fight blood screens to insure his testosterone levels weren't too high. When, after he discontinued his prescribed testosterone use at the request of the NJ Comm'n and then restarted after the Comm'n was satisfied, he ended up with too much in his system when he followed his doctor's advice regarding dosage. Subsequent pre-fight screens found him still too high, he couldn't be cleared to fight, the main event was scuttled, and the UFC fired him for it.

By contrast, if Marquardt had instead hid his testosterone supplementation like Chael Sonnen did prior to his fight with Silva, Marquardt wouldn't have been subject to any pre-fight blood screens. The fight would've gone on and Marquardt only would've been "caught" afterwards. But at least the main event of a televised card wouldn't have imploded the day before it was supposed to be held. And, like Sonnen, I suspect he would've been put on suspension by an athletic commission but at least gotten to keep his job.

I'm fine with him not being able to fight with too much testosterone in his system, but I think it sucks that he effectively got fired as a consequence of full disclosure. That's not a good anti-doping precedent. The incentive created is, obviously, not to disclose.

Personally, I think TRT shouldn't be allowed at all. But right now, it is so long as it's doctor prescribed and accepted by the athletic commission. This was the case with Marquardt, who even took it a step further and disclosed it to the UFC long before any issue came up with last weekend's main event.

So, absent banning TRT altogether, my solution for Marquardt would've been no fight, no show money, but keep job. Had he not fully disclosed and the fight went on, I would've liked to see the UFC force him to forfeit his purse and fire him. That keeps the incentives correct and discourages TRT unless you really, truly need it. In the event the athletic commissions start banning TRT altogether, then I would gladly make it a fireable offense at all times regardless of doctor prescriptions or disclosures.
I agree with banning trt. Should not be allowed in Mma.

He did disclose but his doctor is who really messed him up. He knew he had another test. He advised him to take the extra large dose. There is a little more to story but has been covered pretty well by bloody elbow and other sites.
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:33 PM   #20
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I miss the old discipline vs. discipline fights.
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:35 PM   #21
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I agree with banning trt. Should not be allowed in Mma.

He did disclose but his doctor is who really messed him up. He knew he had another test. He advised him to take the extra large dose. There is a little more to story but has been covered pretty well by bloody elbow and other sites.
Yeah, they're crucifying the guy on the Underground.

Given the rarity of naturally abnormally low testosterone in an adult male, my expectation is that he probably screwed up his system years ago with steriod abuse. As a consequence, he now needs TRT to maintain "normal" levels.

If that's true, he did ultimately "bring this on himself." My biggest problem though is simply the way the UFC handled this and other guys who get popped for PEDs sends the wrong message.

In effect, he wasn't fired for PEDs, he was fired for crashing the main event of a live card 24 hours before it was supposed to go on. Meanwhile, guys who get busted after the card just get a reprimand from the UFC and placed on suspension by the athletic commission.

So the message is "Our business is more important than our fighters' health and keeping a clean sporting environment. You compromise your (and potentially your opponent's) health and cheat, you're reprimanded. You fu*k with our business, you're fired."

While I realize business is business and the UFC undoubtedly lost money due to Marquardt's issues, I think it's ultimately in the UFC's business interest to think more broadly about the credibility of their product and so on.

The best avenue for the UFC is to announce a zero tolerance policy, and make sure you give "second chances" once you fire guys after they have a few clean fights in other promotions just to ensure your elite (but fired) fighters don't too heavily stack the decks of potential rival promotions.
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:36 PM   #22
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I miss the old discipline vs. discipline fights.
TKD guy was lucky he survived that.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:34 PM   #23
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Yeah, they're crucifying the guy on the Underground.

Given the rarity of naturally abnormally low testosterone in an adult male, my expectation is that he probably screwed up his system years ago with steriod abuse. As a consequence, he now needs TRT to maintain "normal" levels.

If that's true, he did ultimately "bring this on himself." My biggest problem though is simply the way the UFC handled this and other guys who get popped for PEDs sends the wrong message.

In effect, he wasn't fired for PEDs, he was fired for crashing the main event of a live card 24 hours before it was supposed to go on. Meanwhile, guys who get busted after the card just get a reprimand from the UFC and placed on suspension by the athletic commission.

So the message is "Our business is more important than our fighters' health and keeping a clean sporting environment. You compromise your (and potentially your opponent's) health and cheat, you're reprimanded. You fu*k with our business, you're fired."

While I realize business is business and the UFC undoubtedly lost money due to Marquardt's issues, I think it's ultimately in the UFC's business interest to think more broadly about the credibility of their product and so on.

The best avenue for the UFC is to announce a zero tolerance policy, and make sure you give "second chances" once you fire guys after they have a few clean fights in other promotions just to ensure your elite (but fired) fighters don't too heavily stack the decks of potential rival promotions.
I agree with almost everything there. Very well put. I have barely been on UG or sherdog since I started on here ha.

One think I only partially agree on is the timing issue. I def think the whole day before major event hurt. Kinda ironic if you factor in the fights shown on spike at same time were mostly bad fights for Nate to draw people away from versus. I digress. With Nate I think it was combination of 1) before major event 2) failed prior 3) fact was 2nd time with high testosterone in 2 fights and this one was warned to be normal levels. Guy showing a pattern.

Not a Chael defender but don't remember him having prior record of issues. I know several non ufc things came out later which are all well documented.

And we are also not privy to what conversations happen in background as well. So we have to take all these things with grain of salt.

Like you mentioned, it's also a business. So if going to give 2nd chance to someone you give it to a guy fans want to see fight. Chael a draw, Nate isn't.

I agree ufc needs to take a hardline in relation to anything that's related to performance enhancing that's against athletic commission. But really if athletic commission did their job, ufc wouldn't have to. Like asking teacher to teach your kid manners. Yeah they can but wouldn't need to if you were a good parent (not you directly)
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:41 PM   #24
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Went to school with this kid "Tim pinny", not sure where he's at, he kind of sucked at the time when I first learned he was fighting. Funny, I had no idea he was Into any kind of mma, actually now that I think of it he was wrestling for our school. Anyways, a quiet kid, friends with a small bunch. Going to google his name and see what he's up too, if he's still fighting.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:00 PM   #25
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Went to school with this kid "Tim pinny", not sure where he's at, he kind of sucked at the time when I first learned he was fighting. Funny, I had no idea he was Into any kind of mma, actually now that I think of it he was wrestling for our school. Anyways, a quiet kid, friends with a small bunch. Going to google his name and see what he's up too, if he's still fighting.
I have guy I work with who has 5 pro fights. Guy I wrestled in college with fights. My job has gym on site and a trainer there fights. A friend of mine went to The Citadel and was same company as Jon Koppenhaver aka war machine.

My wrestling good enough to fight pro in local orgs and such. Jiu Jitsu might be enough to hold me. But I never could strike and didn't take a punch well. Tried boxing and did that a year. Just never clicked for me. And at 5'6 140lbs (wrestled 133 in college) I wouldn't be powering anyone around, even at my weight.

I'd love to do just one fight ha. But isn't in me. Won't be checking that off my bucket list. But will be checking off marathon and tough mudder soon. Have to be enough haha.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:29 PM   #26
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I was always a better striker than a grappler. Spent years doing the karate thing and then a good amount of boxing. Did manage to get a BJJ blue belt before subordinating all outside activities to a 60 hour per week career.

It takes some nuts to climb in a cage with four ounce gloves, that's for sure. M_McQuade, a member here, had a few pro fights. Even one against Phillipe Nover. You can find his record on Sherdog, though it's not quite complete.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:45 PM   #27
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I'm a p***y lol
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:50 AM   #28
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So what are everyones picks for Saturday? We can keep a running tally, see who is most accurate. Who you think, not want, to win.

Cruz, leban, bader, condit, siver, Melvin, gsot,
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:50 AM   #29
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Faber. I say Cruz is overrated.
Silva. Very interested in seeing this fight as it may tell where these two fighters are in today's MW division. Wandy has seen a lot (maybe too many) wars, but so has Leben. Leben is also predictable without the kind of one punch power Silva brings. I think if you can't beat Stann, you're not likely to beat Wandy.
Bader. Duh.
Condit. This and Siver/Wiman are the two main card fights I'm least sure of. Condit's had tougher competition, so I'll give it to him.
Siver. Again, tough call. I'm liking Wiman lately and Siver's getting a little long in the tooth. But Siver beat GSot and has had tougher competition of late, so I'm not going to pick against him.
Sotiropoulous. Never been blown away by Dos Anjos. It doesn't help that my--and I'm sure many others--strongest memory of him comes courtesy of a Jeremy Stephens uppercut.

Prelims:
Guillard.
Bowles.
Simpson.
Winner.
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Old 06-30-2011, 03:28 PM   #30
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I missed the live event, I have no recolection whatsoever of saying "are you freaking kidding me?" 20 times in a row. I was so happy for Barry until...
Cheick Kongo is the first MMA zombie.


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