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Old 05-19-2011, 02:20 PM   #1
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not an obama supporter

i disagree with many of obama's policies, but i must support his new middle east policy. way back in the seventies, college profs. were saying israel's borders must be pushed back to pre 1967 borders and establish a palistinian state or there will never be peace in the middle east. guess he had a few of the same profs. finally some one is using common sense.

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Old 05-19-2011, 03:05 PM   #2
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Does that help our unemployment rate or debt?

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Old 05-19-2011, 03:19 PM   #3
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When war began in the middle east, rocks were state of the art weapons. War will continue in that region until rocks are again in vogue. Personally, I think we should just keep our noses out of it. We don't care for it much when other countries attempt to tell us what to do. Why would any sovereign nation think it's fine for us to dictate their policies? While I would continue to loan Israel funds (oddly enough, they actually pay us back), I'd prefer we just left the rest alone. After all the attempts, it's pretty clear we have no effect anyway.

Should we give the southwest back to Mexico? After all, it would make Mexicans happy...
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:42 PM   #4
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screw obama. worst president I've ever seen. I've got no clue what that guy is thinking. it was strongly advised by this country's founding fathers to not get mixed up in entangling alliances. if we simply followed this advice we would not be in a lot of the trouble we're in.

israel isn't really my concern at the moment. this nonsense involving pakistan really has me worried
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Old 05-19-2011, 04:04 PM   #5
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IMO we need to stop being the world police and see how long it takes before people start begging for our help again.
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Old 05-19-2011, 04:30 PM   #6
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Directly in opposition to Bush's promise in 2004 to never go back to those borders. Israel's response is that those borders are indefensible.
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Old 05-19-2011, 05:05 PM   #7
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IMO we need to stop being the world police and see how long it takes before people start begging for our help again.
Exactly.
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:41 PM   #8
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I think we should make the middle east the world's landfill.
Just fly over and dump trash on 'em.
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:53 PM   #9
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Exactly.
The scary thing is, we can't afford to be the World's police anymore. And the situation is getting worse.

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Old 05-19-2011, 10:30 PM   #10
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IMO we need to stop being the world police and see how long it takes before people start begging for our help again.
we have been the world police since t.roosevelt sent our first modern navy around the world when he coined the phrase, "speak softly and carry a big stick". if we hadn't, been involved in over seas affairs, what would the outcome of ww1 have been. joe kennedy wanted us to stay out of ww2. if we had, we would all be speaking german. the list goes on. it is easier and more cost effective to be involved as the world police before trouble starts than wait to be asked.
groundhawg: our founding fathers lived in a different world, a time when i doubt anyone could conceive of a world war or the devastation of nukes. in there world we were self sustaining, that is no longer true. therefore we must be involved overseas.
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Old 05-19-2011, 11:24 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by navret

we have been the world police since t.roosevelt sent our first modern navy around the world when he coined the phrase, "speak softly and carry a big stick". if we hadn't, been involved in over seas affairs, what would the outcome of ww1 have been. joe kennedy wanted us to stay out of ww2. if we had, we would all be speaking german. the list goes on. it is easier and more cost effective to be involved as the world police before trouble starts than wait to be asked.
groundhawg: our founding fathers lived in a different world, a time when i doubt anyone could conceive of a world war or the devastation of nukes. in there world we were self sustaining, that is no longer true. therefore we must be involved overseas.
No, we live in the exact same world as our founders. Its not like wars and poor alliance choices are a new thing.

Switzerland is an excellent example of what our foreign policy is supposed to look like. No standing military, friend of many, enemy of none, citizen armed militia. It's not like that's a poor country either.

it's not just foreign affairs either. This government has deviated so far from what was intended it's sickening. Militarily, we weren't ment to be the policemen of the world. We were given the right to bear arms not only to protect us from a potentially out of control govt, but as a very convincing national defense strategy. I think it was the Japanese prime minister during WWII that once said something to the effect of "it's impossible to invade the mainland United States...theres a gun behind every door." and it's no secret why Hitler didn't invade Switzerland.

This world is no different than the one the founders were in, its just got a different cover.

There's one reason and one reason only we are the world police and it's not to spread democracy, peace, and good will. We make A LOT of money during war and after. Not to mention us securing oil interests overseas. If you actually buy that crap our govt and media feeds us daily about terrorists, crazy dictators, nukes, or whatever else to scare the daylights out of everybody here...you're sadly mistaken.

Dont believe the hype man. Too many folks are. This country better wake up soon. Almost everything is a mess and since 9/11, we are losing rights daily thanks to this sociopathic federal government. The very few rights we have left are restricted, and mark my words right they're going to take them all sooner or later and this war on terror Hollywood production is the perfect vehicle to do so.
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Old 05-20-2011, 12:18 AM   #12
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A lot of folks talk about losing rights since 9/11 but I can't think of any or at least my life has not changed much. I guess the biggest thing is getting patted down before boardng a plane which honestly I'm cool with. It's much to do about nothing imo.
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Old 05-20-2011, 12:36 AM   #13
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a lot of folks talk about losing rights since 9/11 but i can't think of any or at least my life has not changed much. I guess the biggest thing is getting patted down before boardng a plane which honestly i'm cool with. It's much to do about nothing imo.
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Old 05-20-2011, 01:53 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by sonofabeach
A lot of folks talk about losing rights since 9/11 but I can't think of any or at least my life has not changed much. I guess the biggest thing is getting patted down before boardng a plane which honestly I'm cool with. It's much to do about nothing imo.
lol the TSA is actually molesting people at the airport. It's crap like this that makes me cringe when we just give power away. Besides, it's not the government's job to feel everyone up at the airport. Why dont the airlines do it? Instead we'll just waste tax money and grow govt even bigger.

As for the Patriot Act, same deal. It's a major violation of privacy. That law was passed to combat terrorism, not bust people smoking pot. What's next? Cops kicking your door down if they think they smell weed, or busting into your house because a neighbor saw your firearm and the police think you're up to something? I'm not talking sh*t on cops, but corruption is there. It's NEVER a good idea to give power to the State. They have, and always will take it too far.

Police can tap your phone, search your house, pat u down, all without a warrant now. This is America, not Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany. I'm just saying, the 4th Amendment is basically gone, and the Constitution raped by every administration. The Patriot Act is one of the worst violations of the Constitution I've seen with the exception of the income tax, and the way I see it, it's only getting worse.

Just be careful. Be vigilent. Speak out. Once you lose a right, you'll never get it back. So be VERY careful what you ask the government to do.
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Old 05-20-2011, 02:03 AM   #15
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This is the kind of bullsh*t I'm talking about.

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/publ...stitution.html
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Old 05-20-2011, 07:31 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by sonofabeach View Post
A lot of folks talk about losing rights since 9/11 but I can't think of any or at least my life has not changed much. I guess the biggest thing is getting patted down before boardng a plane which honestly I'm cool with. It's much to do about nothing imo.
Okay with your daughter getting patted down?
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Old 05-20-2011, 09:35 AM   #17
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I don't agree with most of what Obama says and does.

No need to give the southwest back to Mexico. I live in the southwest and they are going to take it back by stealth.
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Old 05-20-2011, 12:26 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by SilentKoala

Okay with your daughter getting patted down?
That too. Good point.

If we did just half the stuff our government does, we'd be arrested! Why do we let the government do it?
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Old 05-20-2011, 03:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundHawg

No, we live in the exact same world as our founders. Its not like wars and poor alliance choices are a new thing.

Switzerland is an excellent example of what our foreign policy is supposed to look like. No standing military, friend of many, enemy of none, citizen armed militia. It's not like that's a poor country either.

it's not just foreign affairs either. This government has deviated so far from what was intended it's sickening. Militarily, we weren't ment to be the policemen of the world. We were given the right to bear arms not only to protect us from a potentially out of control govt, but as a very convincing national defense strategy. I think it was the Japanese prime minister during WWII that once said something to the effect of "it's impossible to invade the mainland United States...theres a gun behind every door." and it's no secret why Hitler didn't invade Switzerland.

This world is no different than the one the founders were in, its just got a different cover.

There's one reason and one reason only we are the world police and it's not to spread democracy, peace, and good will. We make A LOT of money during war and after. Not to mention us securing oil interests overseas. If you actually buy that crap our govt and media feeds us daily about terrorists, crazy dictators, nukes, or whatever else to scare the daylights out of everybody here...you're sadly mistaken.

Dont believe the hype man. Too many folks are. This country better wake up soon. Almost everything is a mess and since 9/11, we are losing rights daily thanks to this sociopathic federal government. The very few rights we have left are restricted, and mark my words right they're going to take them all sooner or later and this war on terror Hollywood production is the perfect vehicle to do so.
Yes, yes, and yes!
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:25 PM   #20
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Tired of people complaining about losing rights. Its stupid to complain about something you have 0 control over. Don't like it? Move to a different continent. USA is ftw and always will be.
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:43 PM   #21
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Tired of people complaining about losing rights. Its stupid to complain about something you have 0 control over. Don't like it? Move to a different continent. USA is ftw and always will be.
And if everyone thought that way back in the mid to late 1700's, tea would be the national beverage today. The rights you don't fight for are the rights you lose. The problem is, we have far too few fighters and way too many followers.
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Old 05-20-2011, 05:19 PM   #22
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Okay with your daughter getting patted down?
I can see why they do it. I heard a cop on the radio saying that there are many times he has found a crook has hid things in their kids diaper.
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Old 05-20-2011, 09:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by teknoid

And if everyone thought that way back in the mid to late 1700's, tea would be the national beverage today. The rights you don't fight for are the rights you lose. The problem is, we have far too few fighters and way too many followers.
Eh, idk. All I know, is I'm very happy in America, and wouldn't want to be anywhere else. It has it ups and downs. But what country doesn't?
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Old 05-20-2011, 10:53 PM   #24
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Tired of people complaining about losing rights. Its stupid to complain about something you have 0 control over. Don't like it? Move to a different continent. USA is ftw and always will be.
USA for the win? How? Explain what this country offers others don't.

And how could you criticize people for complaining about losing rights? I'm just curious. Are u saying we haven't lost any? That's absurd to think. Next year we won't even be allowed to buy regular lightbulbs for crying out loud lol! I could fill up a book with all the rights we have lost and freedom of choice situations taken away.
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Old 05-20-2011, 11:36 PM   #25
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And if everyone thought that way back in the mid to late 1700's, tea would be the national beverage today. The rights you don't fight for are the rights you lose. The problem is, we have far too few fighters and way too many followers.

amen. the thing is, we do have control over it, its called voting. and if enough people are angry enough, stuff will change
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Old 05-21-2011, 07:47 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundHawg

USA for the win? How? Explain what this country offers others don't.

And how could you criticize people for complaining about losing rights? I'm just curious. Are u saying we haven't lost any? That's absurd to think. Next year we won't even be allowed to buy regular lightbulbs for crying out loud lol! I could fill up a book with all the rights we have lost and freedom of choice situations taken away.
My life has had 0 changes in the past 23 years. Any right I had before that I demonstrate, I still have. I don't get in trouble with the law so idc about the warrant/searching crap, and at air ports...I'm punctual, so getting there an hour earlier than normal to be patted down doesn't bother me. More time to watch movies on my iPhone. And realistically I'm willing to bet the majority of the people who live in American don't even know all their rights. That being said, it's hard to get people to fight for something they don't even know belongs to them.
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:24 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Laudthelau
Tired of people complaining about losing rights. Its stupid to complain about something you have 0 control over. Don't like it? Move to a different continent. USA is ftw and always will be.
Ignorance, ignorance everywhere.
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Old 05-21-2011, 11:23 PM   #28
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Anyone that claims pushing Israel back to pre 67 borders will bring peace in the middle east is incredibly naive, ignorant of history and current events, or a liar.
The only thing it will accomplish is to make it much much harder for Israel to defend herself.
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Old 05-22-2011, 02:34 AM   #29
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If Israel laid down there arms tomorrow, everyone in that country would be slaughtered. If the other middle east countries laid down theirs, peace would prevail. How hard is that to understand. l
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Old 05-22-2011, 02:52 AM   #30
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I can see why they do it. I heard a cop on the radio saying that there are many times he has found a crook has hid things in their kids diaper.
Solution = let them profile, all stereotypes have a basis in reality, it's a fact that we would be much safer if they had two lines at the airport one for muslims and one for everyone else, make the people with the rags on their heads go through extra security but leave us normal-looking patriotic Americans alone.

Also, only allow women and children to be patted down by female guards. It's just less creepy...

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