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Old 11-24-2008, 02:32 AM   #1
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OK, now I'm not one to delve in this stuff...

But I've been thinking...

Does anyone else find it odd now that GW is leaving office, gas prices are falling to pre-GW levels? I mean we all know his family was in the oil business and his career after the military is public knowledge.

Famous Texans / GW Bush Read the "profession" part... Interesting.

Historically fuel prices were higher this summer than ever before. the only time it ever came close was during the oil embargo of 1981.

I would be interested in the whole story. I'm not buying the "Debt of war" or the "Shortage of crude" or the "Threats made against oil refineries overseas" BS!

I know it costs a fair amount to refine crude into other products, and I've done the math before. When crude oil was going for high dollar, they were still only making 18% profit from gas manufacture, but if OPEC sets the prices you can bet that there are a few influential individuals poking Achmed in the back and telling him what figure to announce. And you can also bet that there are accounts that these funds trickle into.

I'm not one to preach conspiracy, but it sure does seem like he milked us dry over the last few years to ensure himself a nice fat retirement check. Either that or it's one hell of a coincidence.

The republican in me prays it's not true. Hell, I voted for him twice and I actually met the man and shook his hand back when I was in the Air Force. (he went to basic training with a friend in my unit, MSG Eshbaugh back in '68 and I was invited attend a presidential appearance in Charleston WV)

I think the saddest thing to come out of the high gas prices is the fact that all those people had to sell their Jeeps because they just couldn't afford the gas.


Discuss...

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Old 11-24-2008, 02:39 AM   #2
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:09 AM   #3
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1.) I think it was probably understood that there was a certain safety zone that was pro-oil interests, but I don't see a conspiracy.

2.) Peak oil info was coming out in the late 90s and starting to hit the public during his run. The basis is that the Saudi's have been fudging their in the ground numbers for a long time. This, I beleive, scared the bejesus out of Chaney.

3.) This peak oil buzz got investors and hedge funds interested and started a stampede to get there first.

4.) Now that the CDO market is imploding, all these hedge funds and futures fuel traders and packing up and generating cash in an attempt to survive. That is taking the fluff out of the price.

3.) Numbers I've read suggest we have seen more than a 30% demand destruction in the US alone. That makes me proud, and sad that we have not been doing this all along. Seeing someone with an 8mpg SUV with it left running to keep the AC pumped is just retarded.

Now, all that said, the Bushs have been very intertwined in managing our relationship with the Saudis. Has there been some level of collusion in setting the price per barrel on top of everything else? IDK. I think you could have this scenario without it. I also think this dip in prices is only temporary.
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:01 AM   #4
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But I've been thinking...


I think the saddest thing to come out of the high gas prices is the fact that all those people had to sell their Jeeps because they just couldn't afford the gas.

i think the people that "had" to sell their jeeps didn't think it through. i'll bet most people went and financed newer hondas and such. lost money on the trade in, cuz they didn't get crap for their jeeps, plus the money on mods they spent that gets no return. plus the money they spent on payments, and the crazy juice they're paying on financing right now.

i don't remember the numbers but it was somewhere around 10 yrs before you'd even break even on the savings of the cost of a hybrid suv.

so those who traded in their jeep probably didn't help themselves. even if prices go up again, i doubt its that big of a help in the big picture. i'd rather not buy mcdonalds, and set that money aside for the extra gas, than trade in my jeeps. and now gas is $1.79 in my area, and going down daily.

even if it goes back up, selling your jeep right away isn't the answer. it felt like prices were crazy and over $4 for a long time, but in reality it was right around or under 1 yr. so i spent probably $20 more dollars a week on gas, while cutting back on driving when i could. thats only $1,000 in that year. not worth selling your jeep.
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Old 11-24-2008, 11:01 AM   #5
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Cain, the American peoples pain tolerance was just checked. I think the the people behind it are bigger than OPEC, US, George Bush and oil companies. I keep hearing it was speculators that caused it, but I think these guys are just parasites on the industry.
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Old 11-24-2008, 11:17 AM   #6
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I think the hedge fund and private capital world of leverage is a much larger part of the economy than you might expect. Real numbers are almost impossible to come by because it isn't regulated.

These are fairly healthy parasites.

Tax breaks for billionaires: Loophole for hedge fund managers costs billions in tax revenue
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Old 11-24-2008, 11:26 AM   #7
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I miss $ 4.00 gas.
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Old 11-24-2008, 11:34 AM   #8
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I miss $ 4.00 gas.

I still have a tank full of it if you want to buy some!
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Old 11-24-2008, 11:50 AM   #9
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I miss $ 4.00 gas.
Awww.................... don't worry it'll be back.
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Old 11-24-2008, 12:09 PM   #10
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I think the hedge fund and private capital world of leverage is a much larger part of the economy than you might expect. Real numbers are almost impossible to come by because it isn't regulated.

These are fairly healthy parasites.

Tax breaks for billionaires: Loophole for hedge fund managers costs billions in tax revenue
Yes, your right. They actually 200lb tumors.
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Old 11-24-2008, 12:14 PM   #11
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I still have a tank full of it if you want to buy some!
No thanks. I'm more interested in the selling of the $ 4 gas than buying it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4point View Post
Awww.................... don't worry it'll be back.
Man, I hope so!!!
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Old 11-25-2008, 01:16 AM   #12
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You all are more right than wrong by alluding to the hedge fund money infiltrating the futures market. They blew it up huge racking up monster "paper" profits during the last several months. Another piece of that pie was the fuel contract running out for the majority of the air lines. The hedge fund managers know and find all of this information and are very good at leveraging it. Then the rest of the public starts to get involved. Hell I ain't gonna lie I even made some money on sweet light crude. I also made some coin on currency around the world also. I am now out of all of that because it's just too friggin volatile. I'm now into longterm shopping for seriously discounted blue chips.

OPEC's major disaster they can wreak on the world is by controlling of supply. Not even they could've forseen the major oil and gasoline surpluses that were going to come about in most of their major markets around the world. Plus I think they also tried to play China, US, and India off on each other and it back fired.
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Old 11-25-2008, 11:02 PM   #13
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OPEC's major disaster they can wreak on the world is by controlling of supply. Not even they could've forseen the major oil and gasoline surpluses that were going to come about in most of their major markets around the world. Plus I think they also tried to play China, US, and India off on each other and it back fired.
For sure. OPEC was playing with firecrackers when they should have been keeping track of how many they had.
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Old 11-26-2008, 12:06 AM   #14
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I'm going to just start printing more money.

The government does it to get out of a jam, why can't I ?
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:19 AM   #15
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i think the people that "had" to sell their jeeps didn't think it through. i'll bet most people went and financed newer hondas and such. lost money on the trade in, cuz they didn't get crap for their jeeps, plus the money on mods they spent that gets no return. plus the money they spent on payments, and the crazy juice they're paying on financing right now.

i don't remember the numbers but it was somewhere around 10 yrs before you'd even break even on the savings of the cost of a hybrid suv.

so those who traded in their jeep probably didn't help themselves. even if prices go up again, i doubt its that big of a help in the big picture. i'd rather not buy mcdonalds, and set that money aside for the extra gas, than trade in my jeeps. and now gas is $1.79 in my area, and going down daily.

even if it goes back up, selling your jeep right away isn't the answer. it felt like prices were crazy and over $4 for a long time, but in reality it was right around or under 1 yr. so i spent probably $20 more dollars a week on gas, while cutting back on driving when i could. thats only $1,000 in that year. not worth selling your jeep.
well for those of us who drive about 40 to 60% of the day it affected us a little more, my jeep was my dd and i probobly put about 40 dollars in it a day. your 20 dollar a week hit was my 200 dollar a week hit, a little diff!
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:27 AM   #16
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well for those of us who drive about 40 to 60% of the day it affected us a little more, my jeep was my dd and i probobly put about 40 dollars in it a day. your 20 dollar a week hit was my 200 dollar a week hit, a little diff!
Your mistake is having a jeep as a dd when you are driving majority of the day.
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:32 AM   #17
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Your mistake is having a jeep as a dd when you are driving majority of the day.
ahah your telling me, not only was gas an issue but i wheeled the snot out of it on the weekend so i had to leave sunday open to fix whatever i had to in order to drive it to work the next week! i sold it and i still have a cj5 for my thrills and woodsy get aways.
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Old 11-26-2008, 11:38 AM   #18
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Your mistake is having a jeep as a dd when you are driving majority of the day.
Our dd is a corolla (have you seen the price of those cars used now?)
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:09 PM   #19
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Our dd is a corolla (have you seen the price of those cars used now?)
Yes, I'm a car dealer.
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Old 11-26-2008, 02:42 PM   #20
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1.)

3.) Numbers I've read suggest we have seen more than a 30% demand destruction in the US alone. That makes me proud, and sad that we have not been doing this all along. Seeing someone with an 8mpg SUV with it left running to keep the AC pumped is just retarded.


Now, all that said, the Bushs have been very intertwined in managing our relationship with the Saudis. Has there been some level of collusion in setting the price per barrel on top of everything else? IDK. I think you could have this scenario without it. I also think this dip in prices is only temporary.
I guess I'm one of those ppl mentioned in #3. I keep a seperate key fob so I can leave it running with one set, lock it, and carry the other set in with me, obviously I don't do this if I'm going to be gone for and hour, but just to run in the store.

And I agree the Bush's have indeed been very interwined in the oil trade and middle east affairs, even I can admit that.

I don't think we can hold Bush responsible though. Too many other parties are involved, contrary to some peoples beliefs, the Bush's don't control all the oil, have they probably profited from it yes, but they don't control it. And I think it is true for most politicians, (especially those who would be considered for President) that they are all very wealthy, very well connected individuals, I mean the men who find themselves in the position to run for president didn't get there by being an average joe.

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