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Old 08-15-2014, 01:34 AM   #1
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Open carry in Texas

I've been open carrying for 18 months now. I've had many encounters with police both good and bad. I've also had my share of encounters with civilians; some are curious, some tell me i'm breaking the law. It usually ends with me explaining and teaching them the law.

Today at Bass Pro Shop- San Antonio, I had a rather interesting encounter with a civilian. He spoke only Spanish and kind of understood English. He confronted me and demanded I give him my gun, because it was illegal to have it. After arguing quietly for a moment, he reached for my gun and attempted to take it.

I was in shock, couldn't believe what had happened. I pulled back and got into a draw position. I sternly told him not to touch me and began backing up quickly. A bunch of people were staring. He shuffled away and I was still in shock.

WHO IN THE HELL CONFRONTS AN ARMED PERSON?!? And then makes a threatening gesture like that? I'm no SASS champion, but I can draw and shoot in .8 seconds in competition. The situation could have went south very quickly.




I'm just venting and looking for how other people would react to this. That was a crazy moment and I can't wrap my head around it.
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:19 AM   #2
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Did not think OC of a pistol was legal in Texas. Lot of discussions going on about that.

What the other did was moronic and also illegal. That's potential theft, and you could have him arrested. You also let him know that.

I feel if you OC, you should also CC a BUG.
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Old 08-15-2014, 12:30 PM   #3
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The open carry of a modern handgun in Texas is illegal. The handgun I carry is an 1858 model, and Texas doesn't recognize curios as firearms.

Going for a weapon on another person is more than just "potential theft". It's an escalation to lethal force, and I would have been justified in drawing and defending my self. That's why I can't believe how stupid that guy was, he could have been dead faster than he could blink.
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Old 08-15-2014, 12:32 PM   #4
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I can't CC a firearm because I'm 17, but maybe another curio black powder would be good.
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Old 08-15-2014, 07:36 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by alaska1996 View Post
I've been open carrying for 18 months now. I've had many encounters with police both good and bad. I've also had my share of encounters with civilians; some are curious, some tell me i'm breaking the law. It usually ends with me explaining and teaching them the law.

Today at Bass Pro Shop- San Antonio, I had a rather interesting encounter with a civilian. He spoke only Spanish and kind of understood English. He confronted me and demanded I give him my gun, because it was illegal to have it. After arguing quietly for a moment, he reached for my gun and attempted to take it.

I was in shock, couldn't believe what had happened. I pulled back and got into a draw position. I sternly told him not to touch me and began backing up quickly. A bunch of people were staring. He shuffled away and I was still in shock.

WHO IN THE HELL CONFRONTS AN ARMED PERSON?!? And then makes a threatening gesture like that? I'm no SASS champion, but I can draw and shoot in .8 seconds in competition. The situation could have went south very quickly.

I'm just venting and looking for how other people would react to this. That was a crazy moment and I can't wrap my head around it.
Unbelievable. Look, there's a lot of things that can be said about "open carry" in Texas. Fact of the matter is, its legal to open carry shotguns and rifles. End of story.

Now, if someone would like to be ignorant of the law and attempt to harass or assault someone who is not in violation of the law, well, it's going to be a bad day for them, especially when it comes to open carry.

My friend, I commend you for not shooting him. You certainly had every right to shoot someone attempting to steal your own firearm away from you.

Be safe out there.

As for reacting, I don't think you could have handled it any better. Wish everyone knew the law in and out, but they don't. You're going to run into people like that guy on occasion. Sorry to say.
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:48 PM   #6
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Open carry is legal in Alabama, but doofuses like the guy who attempted to lift your weapon is why I favor concealed carry.
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Old 08-17-2014, 04:46 PM   #7
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Open carry of curios or long guns
may be within the letter of the law,
but people who do so
are not doing the rest of us any favors.

I thought this thread was going to be about
the whack jobs in Texas
carrying AR15s slung across their chests.
Nothing good can come of this.

Eventually, there will be a tragedy, like the OP almost had.
When, not if but when, that happens,
the gun control crowd will will use it
as an excuse to further erode the 2nd Amendment
and clamp down harder on firearms enthusiasts.

I'm a gun owner and hunter.
I have a Texas concealed handgun license
and I want to keep it.
So, with all due respect and as restrained and polite as I can be,
please, please put your curio away.

I would rather you carry illegally concealed
than do what you are doing.
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Old 08-17-2014, 05:04 PM   #8
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In NJ, acquiring a license to carry is nearly impossible. How easy is it to acquire a gun carry permit in Texas? What are the specific requirements for a license to carry a concealed handgun in Texas?
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Old 08-17-2014, 05:20 PM   #9
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I can't speak to Texas' guidelines, but in Alabama cc permits are handled by the county sheriff's offices.

Personal info for a criminal background check
References
Photo ID
Fees vary

The sheriff has a "may issue" option (as opposed to must issue) meaning they are not required by law to issue in the event the individual is legally "clean" but may otherwise have some reputation issue that makes cc unwise.
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Old 08-17-2014, 05:32 PM   #10
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In NJ, acquiring a license to carry is nearly impossible. How easy is it to acquire a gun carry permit in Texas? What are the specific requirements for a license to carry a concealed handgun in Texas?
Texas is a "shall issue" state. You don't have to kiss the sheriff's ring, just pass the background check, take the class and shoot with proficiency. 50 rounds at a silhouette from 3, 7 and 15 yards, slow timed and rapid fire, five rounds at a time. Kind of fun. Must be .38 caliber or above.

No one else should move to Texas, however.
You will not like it. Just stay where you are.
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Old 08-18-2014, 09:03 PM   #11
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I believe in concealed carry.It prevents situations like this.If 2 or 3 thugs tried to take a weapon from someone carrying,I bet in most situations they would win.
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Old 08-18-2014, 09:08 PM   #12
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I believe in concealed carry.It prevents situations like this.If 2 or 3 thugs tried to take a weapon from someone carrying,I bet in most situations they would win.
+1

Not everyone is intimidated by the sight or possibility of a firearm.

Unfortunately, even in cc situations there are instances when an individual is killed with their own weapon.

Having not been in the situation I recognize I might not respond as I have rehearsed in my mind, but I've nonetheless mentally conditioned myself to pull a weapon only if I have every intent to shoot.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:50 AM   #13
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In NJ, acquiring a license to carry is nearly impossible. How easy is it to acquire a gun carry permit in Texas? What are the specific requirements for a license to carry a concealed handgun in Texas?
Pretty easy for CHL. You can't if you are a felon, are declared mentally unfit, and several other reasons. You have to read the law for that, however, it will ask you all the pertinent questions when you apply online, and will disqualify you based on your answers.

Apply online (typically $140 but it is cheaper for some).
Get fingerprints done at a local location (Identogo) (~$9.95).
Attend 4-6 hour new CHL class (varies, but usually $75+), including written exam and proficiency test on the range.

Then your CHL license will come in the mail.

We shouldn't HAVE to do this to carry concealed. It's our right to do so. But, it is what it is.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:01 AM   #14
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I can't speak to Texas' guidelines, but in Alabama cc permits are handled by the county sheriff's offices.

Personal info for a criminal background check
References
Photo ID
Fees vary

The sheriff has a "may issue" option (as opposed to must issue) meaning they are not required by law to issue in the event the individual is legally "clean" but may otherwise have some reputation issue that makes cc unwise.

That "may issue" changed last year with the new law. It's now "shall issue".
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:13 AM   #15
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ALASKA 1996 :: I'm not sure you can or can not open carry at 17 in Texas,
But if you can not get a Concealed Handgun License at 17 why would it be legal to carry open in Texas ?

I'm not trying to tell you what to do, But I have had to use my gun three times in the past 20 years on my own property and each time I went to jail and was out in about an hour, and had to go to court and get a lawyer
and each time found not guilty of breaking any laws, and was given my Concealed Handgun License back,
But it has cost me about TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS

Please check this out before you get in bad trouble.

https://www.texaslawshield.com/portal/texas-gun-law/

Texas Gun Law

  • Texas Weapons Laws
    The General Firearms Laws of The State of Texas:

    In Texas, it is generally illegal to carry a handgun outside of a person’s own premises. However, a person may carry, either open or concealed, in a non-threatening or alarming manner, a shotgun or rifle.
    However even with a handgun, in Texas, there are several places where a person may possess a handgun legally without the benefit of a Texas Concealed Handgun License (CHL). These places include:
    • A person’s residence or other real property under their control.
    • A person’s private motor vehicle or watercraft if the handgun is concealed, and the person is legal to possess a firearm, is not a member of a street gang, and is not engaged in the commission of a crime greater than a Class C misdemeanor traffic or boating violation.
    • A person engaged in lawful fishing, hunting, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the persons’ residence or motor vehicle, if the firearm is a type commonly used in the activity.
    • While storing a loaded firearm, it must be in a place which cannot be accessed by a child under the age of 17, or secured with a trigger lock if there is reason to know that a child under 17 may gain access to the firearm.
    The Concealed Handgun Laws of The State of Texas:

    Texas allows concealed handguns to be legally carried with a CHL issued by Texas or by a state which Texas recognizes. If a license holder is in possession of a concealed handgun, they must produce their concealed weapons license along with another valid identification upon the demand of a police officer.
    Private property owners are allowed to prohibit the carrying of concealed handguns on their property if they provide proper legal notice of trespassing by a CHL holder with a concealed handgun given in compliance with Texas Penal Code §30.06. Notice may be given verbally or in writing with a statutory warning or by signage with the statutory warning in English and Spanish, in one inch high block letters posted in a conspicuous place.
    Further, even with a CHL, these weapons may not be carried concealed under the following circumstances pursuant to Texas Penal Code §46.03 & §46.035:
    • A concealed handgun cannot be carried while the person is intoxicated.
    • At an amusement park if a proper TPC §30.06 warning is given.
    • In a place of religious worship if a proper TPC §30.06 warning is given.
    • In a hospital or nursing home if a proper TPC §30.06 warning is given.
    • At any correctional facility or within 1000 feet of a correctional facility designated as a place of execution on a day of execution if proper notice is posted.
    • In any court or offices used by a court unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization from the court.
    • At any polling place on Election Day.
    • At any meeting of any governmental body if proper notice is posted pursuant to Texas Penal Code §30.06.
    • At any high school, collegiate, professional sporting event or interscholastic event, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event.
    • At any racetrack.
    • Inside any building or passenger transportation vehicle of a public or private school or educational institution.
    • In the premises of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which derives 51% or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages and has a conspicuous warning prohibiting firearms, if posted.
    • Inside the secured area of any airport, however a person may carry any legal firearm into the terminal that is encased for shipment purposes and checked as baggage to be lawfully transported on an aircraft pursuant to airline and TSA regulations.
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:19 AM   #16
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That "may issue" changed last year with the new law. It's now "shall issue".
Roger that. I stand corrected.
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:24 AM   #17
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Roger that. I stand corrected.

I personally don't care much for having to pay(I wish we were a constitutional carry state), but at least we can get a permit fairly easily I'm also glad that they can now be kept in the employer's parking lot without getting fired.
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Old 08-19-2014, 07:44 AM   #18
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A change in Texas law some years ago allows a person
to carry a handgun in their vehicle.
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:22 AM   #19
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That "may issue" changed last year with the new law. It's now "shall issue".
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I personally don't care much for having to pay(I wish we were a constitutional carry state), but at least we can get a permit fairly easily I'm also glad that they can now be kept in the employer's parking lot without getting fired.
You know -- now that you say that I do recall when it was all coming to a head. Am I correct that that was on the November 2013 ballots?

Unfortunately, last year between July 1 and November 13 both my step-father and my mother died, so other than what I saw of work, medical offices, and hospital rooms I missed most of what went on in the larger world.

The Bama Carry group is strong here (T-town) and while I agree in principle with the right to carry, I know from being around some of them that their subtle "in your face" position is creating a paradox effect. What I mean by that their impact is having the opposite effect as more and more restaurants and businesses are posting "no weapons allowed" signs.

And on one memorable occasion I was accidentally privy to an aside conversation between two convenience store employees.

As an open carry guy left the store -

Cashier #1: "I see dat man in here a lot. Is he a po-leece?"
Cashier #2: "No - he's one of dem open carry people."
Cashier #1: "Oh - dem peoples is weird. Dey makes me nervous."

So at the bottom line, the open carry people are creating a negative backlash in the public eye -- which plays right into the hands of the gun-control nazis.

I have found reasoning with the open carry devotees next to impossible. First, they have staked out a position that implies they are the only people who truly believe in 2A rights, and then they protest they "have the law on their side."

So anyone who disagrees with them is labeled a 2A heretic and a non-supporter of constitutional law.

I would argue that somewhere between the absurd positions of open carry, quick draw, settle everything with a duel gun play on one hand and European style, disarm everyone but the military neurosis on the other hand, that concealed carry with weapons training is the reasonable middle ground.

But then, the day of balance and civic moderation seems dead in America. So who am I to question the experts...?
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:42 AM   #20
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I've been open carrying for 18 months now. I've had many encounters with police both good and bad. I've also had my share of encounters with civilians; some are curious, some tell me i'm breaking the law. It usually ends with me explaining and teaching them the law.

Today at Bass Pro Shop- San Antonio, I had a rather interesting encounter with a civilian. He spoke only Spanish and kind of understood English. He confronted me and demanded I give him my gun, because it was illegal to have it. After arguing quietly for a moment, he reached for my gun and attempted to take it.

I was in shock, couldn't believe what had happened. I pulled back and got into a draw position. I sternly told him not to touch me and began backing up quickly. A bunch of people were staring. He shuffled away and I was still in shock.

WHO IN THE HELL CONFRONTS AN ARMED PERSON?!? And then makes a threatening gesture like that? I'm no SASS champion, but I can draw and shoot in .8 seconds in competition. The situation could have went south very quickly.




I'm just venting and looking for how other people would react to this. That was a crazy moment and I can't wrap my head around it.
And this is why Texas has not made open carry of handguns legal. I have a Texas CHL and I would never open carry even if it was legal for the reason that I believe I can take the perp down by surprise. That has to be the worst feeling to experience when someone tries to go for your gun.

I live in the Rio Grande Valley which is 4 hours down south of San Antonio and about 15 minutes from the Mexican border. Open carrying around here is not an option for me.
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:29 AM   #21
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I truly hope im wrong but I honestly believe that sometime in my childrens lifetime handguns will be banned. After that it will be hard to even get a hunting license to use firearms without going thru the local sheriff. Kind of like applying for a concealed weapon permit today is. They will pass one little small for the greater good law after another until gun ownership is so hemmed in by regulations that you cant own one if you showed violent tendencies in kindergarten 30 years ago. Then you will have to have a psychological evaluation to see if your fit to be a gun owner. The people who will be able to pass those tests aren't interested in guns anyhow. So one day private gun ownership by citizens and the 2nd amendment will be minor curiosities in history books.
Damn im glad I wont be alive then. I hope.
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:18 PM   #22
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In Texas, it is generally illegal to carry a handgun outside of a person’s own premises. However, a person may carry, either open or concealed, in a non-threatening or alarming manner, a shotgun or rifle.

So the op was breaking the law in Texas by carrying non concealed,correct?
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:40 PM   #23
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In Texas, it is generally illegal to carry a handgun outside of a person’s own premises. However, a person may carry, either open or concealed, in a non-threatening or alarming manner, a shotgun or rifle.

So the op was breaking the law in Texas by carrying non concealed,correct?
No sir, because he was open carrying a curio, which is legal.
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:09 PM   #24
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No sir, because he was open carrying a curio, which is legal.
Was that a joke? Im assuming the op wouldent just open carry before he knew the laws concerning his permit..
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Old 08-19-2014, 07:34 PM   #25
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Was that a joke? Im assuming the op wouldent just open carry before he knew the laws concerning his permit..
*scratches head*

I think we're misunderstanding one another, or something.

You asked,

Quote:
So the op was breaking the law in Texas by carrying non concealed,correct?
The OP was not breaking the law in Texas by carring non-concealed.

Texas law states that you may open carry (i.e., carry non-concealed) a rifle, a shotgun, as well as a curio. The OP was open carrying a curio. Just a refresher, the OP stated,

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The open carry of a modern handgun in Texas is illegal. The handgun I carry is an 1858 model, and Texas doesn't recognize curios as firearms.
P.S. You don't need a CHL to open carry, including a curio.
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Old 08-19-2014, 07:43 PM   #26
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FYI - Black powder guns to not even qualify as firearms and can be owned by anyone, including those who may not possess a real firearm.
http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/in...top-10-qas.pdf

Since Federal laws dont consider these firearms, they MAY also be allowed for carry - not that I am going to try it

That should REALLY scare the antis
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Old 08-20-2014, 04:52 AM   #27
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Q: What is a firearm curio or relic?
Firearm curios or relics include firearms which have special value to collectors because they possess some qualities
not ordinarily associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:
1. Have been manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof; or
It is still a Firearm.
2. Be certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; or
It is still a Firearm.
3. Derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or from the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.
It is still a firearm.

The 17 Year Old was using it as a
Defensive Weapon

so I think he was breaking the Law ??
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:15 AM   #28
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Q: What is a firearm curio or relic?
Firearm curios or relics include firearms which have special value to collectors because they possess some qualities
not ordinarily associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:
1. Have been manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof; or
It is still a Firearm.
2. Be certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; or
It is still a Firearm.
3. Derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or from the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.
It is still a firearm.

The 17 Year Old was using it as a
Defensive Weapon

so I think he was breaking the Law ??
It's not based on how it's used. The verbiage you quoted applies to purchasing antique weapons and curios with a special license as a collector, which bypasses the need for an ffl transfer. The background check for this permit is more extensive than what a regular purchase would be.

Btw my mosin, a real weapon of war that fought in ww2, can be bought this way. So can semi auto sks. The current president made rules to exempt aks from this very law.
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Old 08-20-2014, 10:53 AM   #29
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Most state laws defining firearms say that a black powder pistol is not a firearm. No state or federal law includes usage or intent in its definition.

It’s not a firearm, and he was not breaking the law.

Now, carrying a black powder pistol for defensive is not the smartest thing to do, but it is legal.
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:11 AM   #30
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FYI - TX code on weapons:
(3) "Firearm" means any device designed, made, or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use. Firearm does not include a firearm that may have, as an integral part, a folding knife blade or other characteristics of weapons made illegal by this chapter and that is:
(A) an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899; or
(B) a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899, but only if the replica does not use rim fire or center fire ammunition.

(4) "Firearm silencer" means any device designed, made, or adapted to muffle the report of a firearm.
(5) "Handgun" means any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand.
(6) "Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.
(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument.
(8) "Knuckles" means any instrument that consists of finger rings or guards made of a hard substance and that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with a fist enclosed in the knuckles.
(9) "Machine gun" means any firearm that is capable of shooting more than two shots automatically, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
(10) "Short-barrel firearm" means a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches or a shotgun with a barrel length of less than 18 inches, or any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle if, as altered, it has an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(11) "Switchblade knife" means any knife that has a blade that folds, closes, or retracts into the handle or sheath and that opens automatically by pressure applied to a button or other device located on the handle or opens or releases a blade from the handle or sheath by the force of gravity or by the application of centrifugal force. The term does not include a knife that has a spring, detent, or other mechanism designed to create a bias toward closure and that requires exertion applied to the blade by hand, wrist, or arm to overcome the bias toward closure and open the knife.
(12) "Armor-piercing ammunition" means handgun ammunition that is designed primarily for the purpose of penetrating metal or body armor and to be used principally in pistols and revolvers.
(13) "Hoax bomb" means a device that:
(A) reasonably appears to be an explosive or incendiary device; or
(B) by its design causes alarm or reaction of any type by an official of a public safety agency or a volunteer agency organized to deal with emergencies.
(14) "Chemical dispensing device" means a device, other than a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being.
(15) "Racetrack" has the meaning assigned that term by the Texas Racing Act (Article 179e, Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes).
(16) "Zip gun" means a device or combination of devices that was not originally a firearm and is adapted to expel a projectile through a smooth-bore or rifled-bore barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance.
(17) "Tire deflation device" means a device, including a caltrop or spike strip, that, when driven over, impedes or stops the movement of a wheeled vehicle by puncturing one or more of the vehicle's tires. The term does not include a traffic control device that:
(A) is designed to puncture one or more of a vehicle's tires when driven over in a specific direction; and
(B) has a clearly visible sign posted in close proximity to the traffic control device that prohibits entry or warns motor vehicle operators of the traffic control device.

So anything made before 1899 does not count as a firearm, nor does any black powder gun. The year exemption is defined by state, the black powder is a federal law.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) prohibits felons and certain other persons from possessing or
receiving firearms and ammunition (“prohibited persons”). These categories can be found at 18
U.S.C. § 922(g) and (n) in http://atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf.
However, Federal law does not prohibit these persons from possessing or receiving an antique
firearm. The term “antique firearm” means any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock,
flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898. The
definition includes any replica of an antique firearm if it is not designed or redesigned for using
rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or uses rimfire or conventional centerfire
ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States, and which is not readily available
in ordinary channels of commercial trade. Further, any muzzle loading rifle, shotgun, or pistol which
is designed to use black powder or black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition,
is an “antique firearm” unless it (1) incorporates a firearm frame or receiver; (2) is a firearm which is
converted into a muzzle loading weapon; or (3) is a muzzle loading weapon which can be readily
converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination
thereof. See 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), (a)(16).
Thus, a muzzle loading weapon that meets the definition of an “antique firearm” is not a firearm and
may lawfully be received and possessed by a prohibited person under the GCA.
http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/in...top-10-qas.pdf
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