Though this could be put in the land use section, I hope more folks will read this here. It is a back and forth between a motorized recreationist and Patagonia, the outdoor clothing company.
If you want access to public lands, you might be interested in how several companies apparantly view us...
From Glenn Lasater 9:45am Dec 2
In response to a letter to the president signed by dozens of companies in support of closing Canyonlands to motorized recreationists, I posted a notice on each company’s Facebook page that I would not purchase their products or use their services. My posting to the Patafonia page resulted in the following thread. I believe Mr. Hulbert is representative of many of the radical environmentalists trying to close public lands to everyone but themselves. One of the first rules of warfare is to “know your enemy.”
Glenn Lasater Patagonia
Due to your support for illegally closing public lands in Utah to motorized recreationists, I will no longer be doing business with your company. I will also urge the 100,000 motorized recreationists in Colorado to do the same.
Robert Hulbert Sounds like your people's business isn't needed, if you fail to understand the destructive implications behind your little hobby, your ingnorance supersedes your ability for sound judgement and I hope all your like-minded friends join your "boycott" as well
Mike Bellew We will. Alienating customers & potential customers isn't the wisest decision.
Glenn Lasater You can count on it!
Chris Schoolcraft Robert, why are you so mad? You speak as if you have personally seen me, all OHV users, being destructive. Why are you so prejudiced?
Robert Hulbert Do all of us who actually enjoy the outdoors a real favor and stop purchasing Patagonia clothing/equipment, they dont need the business of people, like yourselves, who puts thier personal interests of childish crap like ORVs as more important than the conservation and sustainable use of an area. Obviously I have not seen the impact ALL orv users, only that anytime any are allowed access to an area: the level of erosion cannot be overstated, the spilled engine oil, transmission and hydraulic fluid, fuels, ect., I've seen climbing areas close to everyone alltogether because the owners couldn't stop orv users from destroying common trails, I have never seen an orv trail that wasn't literaly a muddy trench, puddles iridescent with fluid leaks...really why am I so prejudiced; really why can't you find a hobby that doesn't destroy what I'm trying to enjoy, believe it or not mankind has constructed this elaborate network of places to use vehicles-their called roads
Al Whetstine I make it a point to NEVER force my money on people who don't want it.
Glenn Lasater Well, it should be clear that Robert is one of the environazi liberal elite that believe that they know best and that all the rest of us should just shut up and let them run things. Not gonna happen, kid.
In decades of off roading in modified and unmodified Jeeps, I've certainly seen motorized users fail to obey the rules and violate the principles that define responsible motorized use. I've never witnessed such disregard for public lands without taking direct action to stop the activity and prevent such activity in the future. I belong to many organizations that advocate for responsible use and support Stay the Trail and Tread Lightly principles.
I've witnessed just as irresponsible use by non-motorized users. The notion that bikers, hikers, and other non-motorized users are 100% responsible users and stewards of the public lands is simply not true. I've seen them stomp across delicate tundra, destroying everything they set foot on for decades. I've seen them set up illegal campsites in restricted areas. I've seen them set illegal campfires and illegally take down branches and trees to feed them. I've picked up their litter and trash from trails and campsites and repaired and replaced fire pits, tables, latrines and other damage caused by Robert's buddies and pals. I’ve seen non-motorized users trample private property, remove signage, steal public and private property as souvenirs, and treat other users with insults and disrespect (similar to Robert’s rants above).
As a disabled veteran, I don’t have the luxury of walking, hiking, or biking through the wonders of our public lands. I depend on my Jeep to provide me the same freedom you seem to enjoy unhindered by any physical challenges. I know many motorized users suffering the same limitations. I’ve helped paralyzed brothers into and out of ATVs, Jeeps, and other motorized vehicles for years. If you believe that we’ll let anyone deny us freedom of access to public lands that we’ve fought and bled for – better think again!
The operative word here is PUBLIC. What about the word public don't you understand, Robert? WE are just as much the public as you and your "holier than thou" radical environmentalists. WE spend millions of dollars a year to maintain and improve public lands. WE encourage and welcome ALL responsible users of public land. WE protect and defend the freedom and rights of ALL Americans to enjoy the fruits of their labor. WE would even fight to protect YOUR access to public lands. Know that WE will not be deterred by your elitist insults, taunts, ignorant generalizations, or misguided ranting. YOU will not deny US our rights and freedom.
Amy Shelly Well said Glenn. I don't see a 'paid pass' on Roberts backside like I do on my Jeeps backside... OUR money each year goes to maintain the trails, advocacy and many other things that your feet do not do. Without our annual fee, there will not be programs to help support trails.... I too will not support this company or any other companies or people who support closing our lands..... Glenn thank you for YOUR service to defend MY freedoms. Jeep Jeep...
Glenn Lasater Okay. A little checking often helps in understanding. Robert lives in New York! Nuff said...
John Wells If anyone would like to sign a petition opposing the Great Canyonlands Land Grab there is one available. Petition Against the Greater Canyonlands Monument - The Petition Site
Chris Schoolcraft ROBERT!!!!! Roads, made of oil, have been paved through some of the most pristine areas in this country. You are a moron in saying the oil/damage from OHV's is worse than what damage has been done by paving one mile of road. I want to traverse obstacles with my OHV. You want to smooth and pave them for use with your Prius.
Robert Hulbert Boo hoo playing the injured vet card huh...funny is the black card next? Well with all your introspection of your little hobby you would think( if thinking ever really is on your agenda) that the conservation mission of the "environazis" such as myself and certainly the will of Yvonne Chounaird, Patagonia's founder, is and ALWAYS has been to the contrary of what you feel conservation is; then WHY would you think Patagonia would give two shits about you not purchasing their products? Can you and your little buddies cannot fathom that a company might have principals it stands behind? For every one off roadie that boycotts I'm certain Patagonia sheds a tear.
Robert Hulbert Really Glen? Just like you playin the hurt vet card... Shows you don't know shit about me boy.
Robert Hulbert Oh and thank you Glen and also while I'm at it a special thanks also to Phillip Morris another equally concietious group "fighting for our freedoms" with everyone's interest in mind no doubt!
Glenn Lasater What a bitter, angry, hateful, and pitiful little man. I don’t know who pissed in your Wheaties, Robert, or what has happened in your life to make you such a mean-spirited person. Did someone steal your milk money, too many swirlies, too many wedgies? It must be a sad burden to carry around that much hate and bile. Perhaps your narrow-minded hatred is simply because you have to live your life in the shadow of better men than you. It’s clear that a reasonable, intelligent conversation with someone like you is impossible. You’re too busy spewing your prejudice and hatred in personal attacks against anyone and everyone who doesn’t buy into your PC bullshit. Rest assured that those of us who have chosen to serve our country and protect your right to be an asshole have not, do not, and never will need your approval, respect, or gratitude. Adios, amigo – happy trails!
Petition Against the Greater Canyonlands Monument - The Petition Site Petition Site - Canyonlands