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Old 02-13-2014, 08:11 PM   #1
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Proof of God/Jesus

So Ill start by saying I do believe in God/Jesus.Not because i have any real proof of it,although me being here right now is proof I suppose.Anyhoo,a kid at work who doesent necessarily believe or disbelieves God wonders where the proof is.There was a show a bit back with a guy who doesent believe in God & a guy who does(A Christian).The thing that my friend kept mentioning is the Ark.The thing that was brought up is its not possible to build a ship big enough,especially in those times that could float in the ocean and carry 2 of every animal.Besides reading the Bible what proof is there that the Ark existed? I dont know what to tell him except that faith is what keeps me going.
When you die are you reunited with loved ones,who can even prove that?? I dont want this to turn into an argument but hopefully something I can take back to him,and in the process learn myself.Thanks everyone.

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Old 02-13-2014, 08:23 PM   #2
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I'm agnostic in the sense I don't think it will be proven one way or the other. But basically a non-believer. Rather than the ark i'd point out dinosaurs. And how old is Earth according to the bible? Less than 10,000? I find that hard to believe.

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Old 02-13-2014, 08:31 PM   #3
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Non believer here. Too many bad things happen to the good people for me to believe that there is a higher power.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:45 PM   #4
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i in the same boat as your friend, I am not a believer, but I like to think there is something better after we pass. But as Jeeper said, there is way too much bad things happening, especially to children, ie born with cancer or a disease, and such.
I am generally happy to be alive, I live my life to the fullest of my ability. And like everyone else, we will see what is on the other side someday.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:51 PM   #5
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Read "The Case For Christ." A journalist set out to look at the evidence in a non-biased manner, and ended up with so much proof that he really had no choice left but to believe by the time his investigation was completed.
If your friend has trouble believing that a boat could be made to the dimensions laid out in Genesis, then there's no way he could ever believe that the great pyramid could ever exist. Yet, there it is...
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:53 PM   #6
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Non believer here. Too many bad things happen to the good people for me to believe that there is a higher power.
I wonder about that too but the bad things that happen to people arent something God made happen.We,as in the world do it to ourselves,I think.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:59 PM   #7
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I cant believe that, what about childres born with crippling diseases, they sure as heck didnt ask for that, and I am quit sure neither did there parents.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:02 PM   #8
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As far as noah's arc, If there was something that big, surely there would be some evidence of it. i watched a special about it once, they thought it was on Mt Ararrat. But couldnt find it.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:05 PM   #9
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So Ill start by saying I do believe in God/Jesus.Not because i have any real proof of it,although me being here right now is proof I suppose.Anyhoo,a kid at work who doesent necessarily believe or disbelieves God wonders where the proof is.There was a show a bit back with a guy who doesent believe in God & a guy who does(A Christian).The thing that my friend kept mentioning is the Ark.The thing that was brought up is its not possible to build a ship big enough,especially in those times that could float in the ocean and carry 2 of every animal.Besides reading the Bible what proof is there that the Ark existed? I dont know what to tell him except that faith is what keeps me going.
When you die are you reunited with loved ones,who can even prove that?? I dont want this to turn into an argument but hopefully something I can take back to him,and in the process learn myself.Thanks everyone.
Show him Pascal's Wager; it isn't proof, but it is A proof (lol oh math humor).

Or you could undermine his belief in the scientific method by expounding upon Hume's argument against induction.

IMO belief in a higher power is not something that can be intellectualized, it can only be, for lack of a better word, felt, and as soon as you start trying to intellectualize it you are making it something it's not.

I for one don't KNOW one way or the other, nor could I prove it to you.

I tend to think there's a higher power of some kind out there larger than us and what we know and can conceive of, but whether it knows about us or bothers with us at all, I can't say.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:15 PM   #10
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Dogs are mans best friend. Dog is god backwards. Boom!













I am an atheist so I'm no help. But like poster above me said I think it is something felt and can't really be intellectualized. And I think Pascal's wager is a good way to get into Hell, assuming it exist.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:28 PM   #11
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Full blown atheist here, I do respect everyone's belief no matter what religion. The bible is so full of nonsense i don't see how anyone can believe any of it. And I don't think you'll ever find the proof you're looking for. Best of luck to ya though.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:30 PM   #12
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. The bible is so full of nonsense...
Like what?
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:31 PM   #13
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I'm with most others. I'd like to think there is something better for the people that don't fall to corruption and greed, and do their best to help fellow people without expecting any form "repayment". I don't need "proof" of an Ark or anything like that. I'd rather all the hideous shit just stop happening to the truly good people. The truly good people know who they are.

I read a story a while back about a woman who lived her life to help troubled youth. This was her devotion. She gave a lot of things up to live this selfless life. After about 50 years of this, she developed a brain tumor, and eventually died from it. Can you imagine the pain and agony she went through to fight this thing? And in the end, it took her anyway.

There are a million other stories like this. They happen everyday. These stories are the reason I don't have a whole lot to say to "the man upstairs".
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:36 PM   #14
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I'll second the book "Case for Christ". Openly give it a read. If nothing else it will make you think.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:45 PM   #15
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:16 PM   #16
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:18 PM   #17
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Like what?
Haha! Good joke. "Like what?" he said! Haha.

Though same could be applied to most religious text of stature and nature.
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:20 AM   #18
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It's all in the heart. There has been a post floating around the Internet for some time about an Atheist college professor and a Christian student.

(paraphrasing)

The professor goes on mocking God saying to smite him if he exists. The professor says since I have not been smitten there is no God. Eventually the student makes a case for the existence of God using the professors own logic. He asks the professor if he had a brain. The professor answers yes. The student then asks can we see it. The professor says no it's inside my head. The student then asks then how do we know you have a brain? By the professor's logic what we cannot see does not exist but as we know that is not the case. We cannot see the air but we know it is there. We believe it is there. Proof is in the believers heart. Without faith we are nothing but people aimlessly walking this planet.
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Old 02-14-2014, 06:24 AM   #19
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I love the fact that everyone can have their own belief. I would love to think there is someone watching over my daughter but I find some of the Bible stories hard to believe.
I read her catholic stories often since she belongs to a catholic school and the one that gets me every time is how Moses parted the sea.
Sorry but that's a tough one to believe.

And thankfully everyone so far in this thread has been mature and respectful.
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Old 02-14-2014, 06:50 AM   #20
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Instead of seeking proof of all the impossible to prove predications of religion, ask yourself what kind of system is intentionally and rigorously build specifically around claims that are inherently impossible to confirm. Ask yourself why the system's social structure is built so that those in power at the top have indisputable dictation rights/power over those below them, and there is no established framework for challenge, review, or judgement of those in power. Ask yourself why those holding the reins of that social structure have spent thousands of years fervently opposing any individual or group attempting to better humanity's understanding of the universe and world around us through intellectual, scientific, or technological progress.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:10 AM   #21
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God is one letter away from Good.
Devil is one letter away from Evil.
If you believe in God. You believe in Good.
If you believe in the Devil. You believe in Evil.
Do these entities exist? I do not know.
If peoples belief in God/Good is expunged from society, all hell is going to break loose. What would keep people from embracing Devil/Evil if they knew there was not a price to pay in their afterlife?
Is the Bible just stories that have been used to keep people from turning Evil? Is organized religion a way to keep the masses in line?
Are our waking moments the dreams of others while they sleep? While our dreams are the waking moments of others in another dimension?
Are UFOs, bigfoot, ghosts the interaction of dimensions intruding into each other for brief moments?
Can a person who is good but not believe in God be regulated to Hell in the afterlife?
When an Evil person is found out but cannot be brought to justice for one reason or another, they say he will pay in Hell? Will he? Or is that just the way we have been trained to think? Do no evil or you will burn in Hell. Keep the people in line like that.
All of this can be argued with no definitive answer or proof.
There will be people on both sides arguing their points with no actual proof. So what do you believe?
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:16 AM   #22
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Haha! Good joke. "Like what?" he said! Haha.

Though same could be applied to most religious text of stature and nature.
I thought it was a pretty simple question. When someone makes a broad claim like that the implication is that they have specific knowledge of the subject. Asking for specific points to discuss is the next logical step. Otherwise, the conclusion can be drawn that the one making the claim does not, in fact, have specific knowledge of the subject and any further discussion is not warranted.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:28 AM   #23
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I used to be a full blown, hard core athiest because of many of the reasons posted on this thread however; I am now a pretty hard core Christian because of some things I learned.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:39 AM   #24
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The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14 KJV
If you believe in the dinosaur theory, how do you explain the cave paintings found in France depicting Dinosaurs along side man? Or how about the stegosaurus carved on the temple at Angor Wat ? And more recently, the Uncovering America episode on the History Channel where they discovered a cross with a depiction of a dinosaur with a forked tongue which he classified as a lizard. Surprise, Saur means lizard. And how do we know dino's did not have forked tongues. I believe in God and Jesus and the only to get to God is through Jesus
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:43 AM   #25
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I thought it was a pretty simple question. When someone makes a broad claim like that the implication is that they have specific knowledge of the subject. Asking for specific points to discuss is the next logical step. Otherwise, the conclusion can be drawn that the one making the claim does not, in fact, have specific knowledge of the subject and any further discussion is not warranted.
...guess the joke font was not selected for that post of mine.

But if you weren't able to infer that, and the comment about it applying to all religions not just yours, here are a few examples

Peter 2:18
1 Timothy 2:12)
1 Samuel 15:3
Psalm 137:9
Judges 19:25-28
Judges 11:30-1, 34-5
Genesis 22:2
Jeremiah 19:9
2 Kings 2:23-24
Matthew 18:9
Matthew 10:34-36

No this really is not relevant to the OP so I don't want to get it off track.

And to the poster who said can't have good without god it think that's a bit silly. Religions all over the world that evolved without Christian influence that harped on good and evil as well. Even religion without a god in the same sense as Christianity, such as Buddhism.

I am not anti-Christian, or any religion. Anything that makes people sleep better at night or helps them not go on a murder and rape rampage is a good thing. I do not need a religion to not be evil. My only issue with religion is when people 1) use it to hurt/degrade others 2) people are condescending to others because of it 3) people use elementary level thinking, kind of stuff would see in email chain or something, to justify it. It's embarrassing. There is some very intelligent arguments for a god existing and things like 'you can't see your brain so then god exist!' is not one of them.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:56 AM   #26
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Recently Bill Ny and Ken Ham had it out about this discussion. See it here.

For the record, I am a believer based on hard core evidence in my own life and am willing to offer that testimony to anyone.
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Old 02-14-2014, 12:23 PM   #27
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When considering the existence of God the subject really boils down to the condition on one's soul based on their decision to allow a God to take up residence in their life or their rejection of that decision.

While I was a lover of Christ for several years, the death of our 12 year old son shook my faith to the core of who I am. I was angry, confused, hurt, and wondered WHY this happened to our family. I eventually had to make a choice. Although I didn't understand, my wife and I experienced so many things after Matthew's death that showed us that God was with us. I didn't understand, but chose to trust Him anyway and now have been able to forgive the man who accidentally hit our son.

During combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan I experienced unbelievable situations where I was protected from a rocket attack, a very close mortar attack, and land mine detonations. I can't explain it other than I had a sense of peace in those hellish situations. And when I had to pick up the body parts of a female solder of mine, some how I Knew God was right there with me.

Finally, This past week I placed my father into hospice and my wife and I have became his care givers. While this season is also tough, we are again experiencing an indescribable peace. The tough times happen whether a person is a Christian or not, but I'm convinced that Christ will not leave us without His mercy & grace. I'll be praying for each of you as you seek the truth and make your choice.
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Old 02-14-2014, 12:28 PM   #28
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Religion in general is just something that is designed to give the masses peace of mind, nothing more. This is just my opinion however.

The only time I have a problem with either side is when the extremists open their mouths. I will never understand how certain religious groups preach that they are peace loving individuals but strike down and condemn homosexuals.

Just recently in Kansas they tried to get a bill passed that would deny benefits and basic rights to homosexuals.

They sure seem peace loving.
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Old 02-14-2014, 12:59 PM   #29
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Religion (most religions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, ect, namely any non-violent religion or belief) is something that is to guide to you living a better life. At the core of most all religions is the Golden Rule: treat others as you would like to be treated. If having faith in a religion makes you feel more complete and at peace then it is good for you. It's not for everyone and that is their choice and life.
Who is to say that Christianity is final answer? I find it hard to believe that ANY God would punish someone who at the end of their life was a good person, no matter what their religious beliefs were.
I am a Christian, I like it, it helps me find inner peace, feel good that there is something larger than me, and reminds me to be a good person to all people. It's my thing, might not be yours.
1jeeplvr, in regards to your friend/associate/conversation person, as long as that person is happy what does it matter what their belief is. It's not a competition where someone has to win or be right. To each their own.

That's just my opinion obviously.
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:31 PM   #30
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I cant believe that, what about childres born with crippling diseases, they sure as heck didnt ask for that, and I am quit sure neither did there parents.
Are you saying that God made that happen? You are forgetting the we were given free choice. God does not choose which couples procreate. When two people with certain genes procreate, less than desireable results can happen. I beleive in God, but I do not believe that he controls each breath we take.

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