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Old 12-02-2008, 05:03 PM   #1
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The Big Three

So, the automakers have unveiled a "plan" and now want more than the $25 billion they originally asked for. (duh)

Doesn't really sound like a well thought out plan to me.

If you were to suggest things to help them not only survive, but thrive, what would your ideas be?






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Old 12-02-2008, 05:29 PM   #2
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Base the amount they receive off of Sales. They get $X.xx for the type of vehicle they sell and do not get it all upfront. We are just handing the money to the financial institutions and they are the crooked bastards who started this mess.

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Old 12-02-2008, 08:25 PM   #3
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None of us here is qualified to make this decision, unless we have a CEO of a fortune 500 company that is actually doing well (Which would be surprise #2) that I don't know about.

With that said, the first thing you have to do is take away the government regulations that are forcing the American companies to spend ridiculous amounts of money on stupid stuff.

Than you have to put restrictions on the money. Not necessarily "You can only build hybrids," but more like "You can't use this money to take all your corporate managers and CEOs to a spa for $300,000... TWICE."

Third, trust the auto companies to build the cars people want.

American cars sell extremely well over seas, and they have concepts that make the American people drool. They have technology to make some awesome cars with good gas mileage (READ: DIESEL RUBICONS) and emissions better than a standard gasoline engine. Part of the problem is government restrictions on what they can and can't make, when the government knows NOTHING about building a car. Part of the problem is the ridiculous fees, taxes etc. that force auto companies to build cars out of the country with cheap third rate materials. Been to ANY American car lot lately? The interiors on any car are ALL cheap plastic... the exterior is ALL cheap plastic... the engine bay is almost ALL cheap plastic... Trust me when I say that Cadillac, Lincoln, etc. do not want the entire interior plastic.

And yes, just like any other large corporate company, part of the problem is management. Wasteful spending, huge bonuses for nothing, poor decisions. GM, do you really need to try out 30 different steering wheels for a car that you really don't want to produce anyway? Or 40 different shift knobs for the same vehicle? They all make a lot of stupid decisions that a small business who is counting pennies would never make.

But, again, none of us REALLY know the ins-and outs of the business, and none of us really know how to fix it, unless Bob Lutz is a secret member at WF. I am only 23, I don't pretend to know how these things work, all I know is that in my 23 years of existence, any time the government steps in to "help" they end up making things exponentially worse. Let the experts in the fields figure it out, and if they can't god help us all. Let Ford figure out how to build cars, let Sears figure out how to sell T-shirts, and let REAL politicians (not fake suits collecting a paycheck) figure out how to run the country. Not the other way around. I don't want Pepboy's making my lobster, I don't want McDonalds building my Motorcycle, I don't want a congressman from Maryland who managed Target before being elected building my truck, and I don't want the old CEO of Chrysler solving the Cuban Missile Crises.

Just my opinion from someone who grow up in, and works in, the Auto field... and you know what they say about opinions..
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Old 12-02-2008, 08:47 PM   #4
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I wouldn't put that much stock in the qualifications of a CEO actually. Not saying it is an easy job, but it is not a science position.

Probably good to remember that GM at least is a financial company, with the majority of its profit centered in credit much like a bank. The big weight around it is pensions, but I don't feel like they should break the law and dump a bunch of retired and about to retire people out of the pension system.

I also don't know what government regulations have forced them into bankruptcy. The majority of their sales are in the SUV area and there is a huge exemption for emissions standards for these vehicles.

I suspect the problem is that A.) they have invested in the credit swaps like every other financial institution and are watching that blow up, and B.) sales are dry because the American consumer has changed their mind about what sort of car they want, and C.) they have a huge pension obligation that the foreign car companies that have not been in business as long don't have.
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Old 12-02-2008, 09:01 PM   #5
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Honestly, it doesn't matter what they do. The government will bail them out this time and next time too.
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Old 12-02-2008, 09:23 PM   #6
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Until China stops buying bonds and believing we will actually make good on the interest. When that day comes the shit will hit the fan and the real game will start.
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Old 12-02-2008, 09:54 PM   #7
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Hey, those private jets aren't cheap to keep in the air you know!
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Old 12-02-2008, 10:57 PM   #8
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You didn't read the plan, did you. They are selling off the jets. Now they have to figure out how to get a Cadillac to fly.
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:26 AM   #9
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You didn't read the plan, did you. They are selling off the jets. Now they have to figure out how to get a Cadillac to fly.
they are not selling all the jets. I believe GM owns 7 and they are selling 3 or 4...can't remember.
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:28 AM   #10
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My opinion on GM's side of the big 3. I think a prepackaged bankruptcy would be best for them. 1st reason, the first $2500 of every car sold goes straight to retirement for employees. Insane! 2nd reason, the Union has outlived its usefullness. They are going against the original reasons it was instituted. No offense to anyone who may work for Gm, but you make too much money! The average GM worker with benefits makes $60/hour! GM needs to get out of these crazy Union contracts and they will survive and eventually thrive.
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:34 AM   #11
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Old 12-03-2008, 12:12 PM   #12
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The labor unions may be seeing the error in their ways...

UAW to renegotiate contract terms, end jobs bank - Yahoo! News
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Old 12-03-2008, 06:18 PM   #13
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CBS did an interesting peice today about the big three problems...
If you trust their numbers (which I don't, but I've seen the numbers elsewhere) the average hourly wage for an employee with GM, Ford, or Chrysler is around $28 an hour.
The average hourly wage for an employee with one of the foriegn jobs is in the low $20's.
After you figure in all the union burdens on the big three the average pay for an active work at one of the big three comes out to over $70 and hour.
The foriegn companies, just over $40 and hour.
Lets no forget the foriegn companies provide American's with jobs as well, especially here in the South.
And on camera, I would have to say the non union workers at the Hyundai plant looked happier than the union workers at the GM plant (probably becuase they know the company they work for can afford to keep them employed).
So bottom line, the foriegn companies make a similiar (in some situations superior) product with far less cost.
Anyone still wondering why the big three are failing...
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2much View Post
CBS did an interesting peice today about the big three problems...
If you trust their numbers (which I don't, but I've seen the numbers elsewhere) the average hourly wage for an employee with GM, Ford, or Chrysler is around $28 an hour.
The average hourly wage for an employee with one of the foriegn jobs is in the low $20's.
After you figure in all the union burdens on the big three the average pay for an active work at one of the big three comes out to over $70 and hour.
The foriegn companies, just over $40 and hour.
Lets no forget the foriegn companies provide American's with jobs as well, especially here in the South.
And on camera, I would have to say the non union workers at the Hyundai plant looked happier than the union workers at the GM plant (probably becuase they know the company they work for can afford to keep them employed).
So bottom line, the foriegn companies make a similiar (in some situations superior) product with far less cost.
Anyone still wondering why the big three are failing...
I thought thats what it is, but didn't want to say that and look dumb. I totally agree with you bud!

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