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Old 07-16-2013, 12:50 PM   #1
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Things you KNEW were illegal, but they're not.

What are some of those things you knew (or assumed LOL) were illegal only to find out they are not? I'll give 2 examples from my own experience, and I'm curious what yours are...

(At least in the state of Nevada) Going to the DMV while open carrying is not illegal. There is a sign on the door of most DMV's (red circle with a red slash through a gun) but they reference NRS 202.3673. Section 3673 prohibits the CONCEALED carry of firearms in among others, the DMV, but Nevada law is completely silent on OC. There are no laws pertaining to OC, therefore no restrictions. Schools, secure section of airports, and the like fall under federal law. I personally know of a few people who have carried in the DMV and were not hassled. Caveat being if you're being argumentative or displaying other inappropriate behavior, you can be cited with "disturbing the peace" or other "non-firearm related" charge.

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-2...#NRS202Sec3673

Another one...

Going barefoot. We've all heard it is against health department regulations to enter a place of business barefoot. And/or it is illegal to drive barefoot. Just being a little rebellious, I've been going barefoot lately (I do respect a business owners right to refuse service to anyone, so if they ask me to wear shoes, I will, or I'll simply leave). I have heard them say it is against health codes, but...

http://www.barefooters.org/health-dept/NV2009.pdf

I also emailed the Southern Nevada Health District, and asked it there were any local rules/ordinances and was told that the SNHD does not have any rules or regulations pertaining to a PATRON entering any establishment while barefoot. She did reiterate it's the business owners prerogative though.

I've also heard it is against OSHA regulations. This is untrue simply because OSHA's scope is employee vrs employer. It has nothing to do with patrons. Now a business can restrict you from entering certain areas without hard hat, etc. for your own safety (liability related), but that has to do with their risk management, not OSHA.

As far as driving barefoot, again, it is not illegal to merely drive barefoot (how would a Cop know anyway?). The caveat may be if you get in an accident where the cause can directly be attributed to you being barefoot (soft, lotion'ey foot slipped off brake pedal or some such thing) you can be charged with careless/reckless driving, but not "barefoot driving".

http://www.barefooters.org/driving/NV1994.txt

Some states do restrict motorcyclists though...

So what are some of yours?

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Old 07-16-2013, 01:51 PM   #2
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Drunk posting?

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Old 07-17-2013, 01:56 AM   #3
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Drunk posting?
Drunk posting's not illegal, is it?
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:08 AM   #4
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Drunk posting's not illegal, is it?
only if you are driving at the same time.
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:03 AM   #5
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Or while barefoot carrying a gun...
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:07 AM   #6
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Bestiality in Texas. You'd think it's illegal, but apparently there's no state law prohibiting it.
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:12 AM   #7
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Bestiality in Texas. You'd think it's illegal, but apparently there's no state law prohibiting it.
Woof.
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:14 AM   #8
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Bestiality in Texas. You'd think it's illegal, but apparently there's no state law prohibiting it.
1st question - why would you know this
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:25 AM   #9
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1st question - why would you know this
LOL....yeah I knew that posting that would get some responses. Anyway it was mentioned on the morning radio "weird news" segment. Someone's been molesting horses and they could only prosecute him for trespassing.
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:35 AM   #10
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Okay, so, it's not illegal to post while drunk driving barefoot and open carrying a gun in Texas as long as your heading over to bang your neighbors horse?





Why, oh why, did I just go there?
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:33 PM   #11
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Not much of anything's illegal with a gun here in TX
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:30 AM   #12
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At one time, margarine was illegal in Wisconsin. It is not any longer.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:49 AM   #13
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At one time, margarine was illegal in Wisconsin. It is not any longer.
Margarine is one chemical away from being plastic. I never buy that stuff.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:22 AM   #14
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Margarine is one chemical away from being plastic. I never buy that stuff.
And glycerine suppositories are one chemical step from nitroglycerine. It wouldn't keep me from using it if I was uber constipated.
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:34 PM   #15
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Q: What is the only vehicle that can legally run a red light?
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:38 PM   #16
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At one time, margarine was illegal in Wisconsin. It is not any longer.
Margarine was originally developed to feed and fatten up turkeys. It killed them. So they put it in super markets instead
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:41 PM   #17
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Q: What is the only vehicle that can legally run a red light?
Cop...?
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:45 PM   #18
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Margarine is one chemical away from being plastic. I never buy that stuff.
And humans are less than 1% away from being chimps
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:48 PM   #19
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A big negative there chief the only vehicle that can legally run a red light is a US mail vehicle I was like wtf when I learned this and have lots of fun sharing it lol
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:47 AM   #20
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A big negative there chief the only vehicle that can legally run a red light is a US mail vehicle I was like wtf when I learned this and have lots of fun sharing it lol
while that and a funeral procession. I thought the mail vehicle immunity to traffic laws got myth busted. Emergency vehicles can proceed thru red lights at a safe speed when safe to do so and any person can do the same when directed by a PoPo.
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:17 AM   #21
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Here in Missouri any vehicle can run a red light if the sensor hasn't detected that there's a vehicle waiting and the light hasn't changed to green within a reasonable amount of time. However, you can't just pull up to the light, stop for 2 seconds and go.
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:07 PM   #22
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What is the old saying? It is only illegal if you get caught lol.
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Old 07-20-2013, 02:39 PM   #23
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Drinking alcohol as a passenger. It's legal in Delaware, and I think 1 other southern state. I am not a lawyer.
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Old 07-20-2013, 02:40 PM   #24
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A big negative there chief the only vehicle that can legally run a red light is a US mail vehicle I was like wtf when I learned this and have lots of fun sharing it lol
Here in PA, Fire and Law Enforcement can run red lights. Ambulances are supposed to stop, then proceed through with caution. Again, I'm not a lawyer though lol.
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Old 07-20-2013, 02:49 PM   #25
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You'd think it's illegal, until some one complains about the guy who did it, then the person who complained is the one they fire.
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Old 07-20-2013, 03:07 PM   #26
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Drinking alcohol as a passenger. It's legal in Delaware, and I think 1 other southern state. I am not a lawyer.
up until a few years ago in Montana the driver could have an open beer while driving. Most decent size cities had an ordinance against open containers in vehicles but outside of ordinances it was ok. The state finally changed he law. Lots of DUI caused deaths in Montana. I believe Montana is the 3rd largest consumers of beer per capita behind Wisconsin and North Dakota.
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Old 07-20-2013, 03:30 PM   #27
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The Virginia statute regarding school buses loading and unloading had a flaw: it stated that anyone who failed to stop a bus while it was loading or unloading was guilty of a traffic violation, instead of stop AT a bus while blah blah. A few years ago a lawyer drove around one and was stopped and ticketed for reckless endangerment (a criminal offense). He beat it in court on the technicality. Interestingly, 'spirit of the law' would be rule of thumb here, however in 2005 the VA Supreme Court ruled that all State Assembly ammendments must be taken verbatum and no judge may enforce them in any other context than what, exactly, is written. The next opportunity the law was rewritten and enacted immediately.

(Imo) A better way to tell your red light tale - A firetruck, lights and siren, State PD, lights and siren, the POTUS motorcade, & a USPS carrier arrive at an intersection simultaniously. In what (legal) order do they proceed?
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Old 07-21-2013, 05:56 PM   #28
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(Imo) A better way to tell your red light tale - A firetruck, lights and siren, State PD, lights and siren, the POTUS motorcade, & a USPS carrier arrive at an intersection simultaniously. In what (legal) order do they proceed?
I have a feeling the answer will defy all logic, like:

1. POTUS
2. USPS
3. Fire Truck
4. PD

John
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:03 PM   #29
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I have a feeling the answer will defy all logic, like:

1. POTUS
2. USPS
3. Fire Truck
4. PD

John
Technically:
USPS carrier on duty
POTUS
State PD
Local Firetruck

It is, however, a trick question. First, roadways are governed by state law, even after they are established and designated postal roads, and no state has laws allowing right of way for a postal carrier, but do for emergency services. This argueably conflicts the Constitution, in which case the Constitution wins. There are also no laws granting any other federal authority, like the Army, right of way. The theoretical is that Constitutional Law allows first the USPS carrier, then the POTUS, then State Law, having the next jurisdiction, would go next, followed by local municipality law (firetruck).

Furthering down the rabbits hole, this has been debated for over 100 years. In 1893, a newspaper reader wrote the NYT asking:
Q."In case a Fire engine, a mail wagon, and a hospital ambulance should come together, which would have right of way, and which should pass second?"
A."The impression of the local postal authorities is that the order would be: ambulance, fire engine, mail wagon. The ambulance is on a mission of life and death, the fire engine is concerned with saving property, and the mail wagon is occupied with only routine work. The first two are intended for extraordinary calls, and are drilled to a pace mail wagons are not obliged to take"
(NY Times, March 20, 1893 - pg.3)
As this was before motorized transport, we see an obvious reference, 'drilled to a pace', to using draft animals. This, interestingly enough, essentially remains true about the speed and power of emergency vehicles vs postal 'wagons'.

Some years later, in 1912, the same paper published another Q & A, with the exact same question (engine, ambulance, postal worker) but this time they were motorized.
A."In the police regulations all 3 are given the right of way in street traffic. According to the Bureau of Information at Police HQ, there is no order of precedence specified, but practically the fire engine always takes precedence over ambulance and mail wagon, and the ambulance over the last named. The mail wagons urgency is not supposed to be a matter of seconds."
(NY Times, Nov 17, 1912, pg.x10)

Some years later again, in 1920, a postal carrier was cited for not yielding:
"Filipo Gateo, 36 years old, of 230 Mulberry Street, driver of an automobile mail truck that was in collision with a hose truck of Engine Company #55 at Watts and Varick Streets, on August 27, was fined 35$ by Magistrate Francis X. Mancuso in traffic court yesterday. Gateo, who was charged with reckless driving, contended that the mail truck had the right of way, but the Magistrate held that fire apparatus had right of way over all other vehicles."
(NY Times, Sept 4, 1920, 'Mail Driver Is Fined')

Given these findings from 'Constitutional America', I'd have to say the 'establishment of postal roads', in my surmation, does not supercede the right of way of emergency services, as intended by the Founders. Jefferson was actually opposed to the notion that feds could build roads in states, instead opining that they could merely designate them.

In real life, it would likely go POTUS first (and only) and dispatch would reroute the State PD and Firetruck around his motorcade, and if they were to meet they would likely be commanded by dispatch prior to their convergence in which order they should procede. Meanwhile the postal carrier is still waiting at the motorcade check point for the road to be reopened.
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Old 07-22-2013, 04:05 PM   #30
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Technically:
USPS carrier on duty
POTUS
State PD
Local Firetruck

It is, however, a trick question. First, roadways are governed by state law, even after they are established and designated postal roads, and no state has laws allowing right of way for a postal carrier, but do for emergency services. This argueably conflicts the Constitution, in which case the Constitution wins. There are also no laws granting any other federal authority, like the Army, right of way. The theoretical is that Constitutional Law allows first the USPS carrier, then the POTUS, then State Law, having the next jurisdiction, would go next, followed by local municipality law (firetruck).

...
I don't claim to be a Constitutional scholar, but I feel like I know more about it than most.

With that said, I realize that Article 1, Section 8 says Congress has the power "To establish Post Offices and Post Roads". But, where does it say anything about right-of-way?

I likely have a follow-up question, depending on your answer.

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