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Old 06-02-2010, 07:18 PM   #1
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Thoughts on Racism - was Jeep Sticker Thread

I didn't think this would be appropriate to post in the other thread since it would take that thread off topic, but I wanted to post a separate thread and make some observations and ask a couple of questions.

In the "Post your favorite JEEP STICKER" thread, one of the users posted a photo of the rear of his Jeep, sporting two confederate flag bumper stickers. That post can be found here.

There were a number of responses to that picture, including someone asking if his "white pointed hat flies off when the top is down", and someone else commented, "it's not everyday that you can learn enough about a person to know not to waste any time on them by simply reading their bumper sticker. What a time saver."

It strikes me as interesting that people always automatically assume that a confederate flag means the person is a racist, white supremacist, or white separatist.

I looked up the site the stickers came from - it's an online store called Rowdy Rebel (the link to it is on the larger of the bumper stickers) and they deal primarily in confederate flag stuff and "redneck" stuff. I don't see any white supremacist, racist or separatist things on the website, just a lot of "redneck" and "rebel" type stuff.

I guess I really don't get why people figure confederate flag = racist.

I know a lot of people from the South who have confederate flag stickers, and I am not aware of any of them being racist. Not all of them are white, either. As a matter of fact, the one member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans I know is black - it came up in conversation when I asked why there was a confederate flag on his license plate (Sons of Confederate Veterans plates are available in several states).

So I don't really see how people always immediately go from confederate flag to racist white people.

And, for that matter, what is the big deal with being proud of your heritage? Nobody ever seems to complain when people are proud of their Samoan heritage, or their Mexican heritage, or their African heritage, or their Irish heritage, but if someone says they are proud to be white, it's somehow a big deal and somehow racist. Why?

If Bob gets to be "Columbian and Proud" why doesn't Joe get to be "White and Proud"?

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Old 06-02-2010, 07:24 PM   #2
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I agree with you 100 % Stars and bars

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Old 06-02-2010, 07:37 PM   #3
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People are too politically correct these days...if you're white and proud, you're a racist. If you're from the south and you're proud of your Confederate heritage, you're a racist. If you're a member of the NAACP, you're a non-discriminatory African American. If you're white and you feel that the NAACP is racist, you're a racist. If your favorite channel is BET (Black Entertainment Television) and you have BET stickers/clothing that you proudly sport, you're a non-discriminatory African American. If you're white and you think BET is racist, you're a racist. If you offer scholarships for African American students, you're helping African Americans get ahead in life. If you offer a scholarship for whites only, not only are you a racist, but all hell is going to break loose.

FYI folks...there is no such thing as "reverse racism"...it's all racism. What bothers me is that black folks want to be treated equally...and I think that's a great idea. I agree there are still a lot of places where they are treated as inferior to whites and that bothers me, but if they want to be treated equally, they need to stop being racist as well.
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:38 PM   #4
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yea totally true. my high school has a flag of every state in this great nation. exempt? you guessed it...Mississippi. thats why i dont want to risk getting a safari top version. its bull crap that people jump to conclusions.
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:41 PM   #5
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i absolutely positivity will every cell of my being HATE racism. i do not however see the confederate flag as being racist(people just need to learn their history). but i do find the words "white pride" very close to "white power" as some of you may know is the call sign used by aryan neo-nazi white supremacist's. i take that as racism and hope you fall into a ditch and die. is it so ****ing hard to just live your life as a human being were all people dammit! if i see your sticker anywhere near my house. i will gladly spend the time in jail.

sorry for being so blunt..
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:47 PM   #6
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Outside the EEO office where I work there are plaques for every month of the year with who gets honored that month. Women's accomplishments in history month, Native American month, Asian Pacific month, Black history month, you name it month. But no Old White Guy Who Worked Hard All His life and doesn't live off the government month. WTF
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:49 PM   #7
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but i do find the words "white pride" very close to "white power" as some of you may know is the call sign used by aryan neo-nazi white supremacist's. i take that as racism and hope you fall into a ditch and die.
So it's okay if someone says "Black Pride" or "Asian Pride" or "Hispanic Pride" but not "White Pride" because it's *similar* to "White Power"? I don't know, but to me that sounds a lot like jumping to conclusions. It may be "very close to", but "very close" is not "the same as".

What about the "Black Power" movement or "Black is Beautiful"? What if I substituted "White" for "Black" in those? Which is racist? Is only one racist or are they both?
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:52 PM   #8
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It strikes me as interesting that people always automatically assume that a confederate flag means the person is a racist, white supremacist, or white separatist.

I guess I really don't get why people figure confederate flag = racist.

So I don't really see how people always immediately go from confederate flag to racist white people.

And, for that matter, what is the big deal with being proud of your heritage? Nobody ever seems to complain when people are proud of their Samoan heritage, or their Mexican heritage, or their African heritage, or their Irish heritage, but if someone says they are proud to be white, it's somehow a big deal and somehow racist. Why?

If Bob gets to be "Columbian and Proud" why doesn't Joe get to be "White and Proud"?
I want to just hug you! I couldn't agree more.
Until I moved to the south, I never even heard about the stars & bars being associated with racism.

Great post, I'm proud of you, even if you ARE purple!
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:55 PM   #9
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I sincerely hope that the thread will stay civil. I guess I just don't get why one thing is racist and another aren't, even if they're essentially the same just being spoken or shown by a different ethnic group. If we're talking about equality, everyone should be equal - both in how they are treated and how they can express themselves.

Which brings up another question - where does Freedom of Speech begin and end?

Let's say Bob has a sticker on his car that says "White Power" and next to that, Bob has a swastika. Alright - pretty clear message there. But regardless of how we feel about Bob's opinion, does that give us the right to vandalize his car or assault him? Is Bob doing anything that is, under the law, illegal?

I see a lot of bumper stickers that I find offensive, but I figure people have a right to their own opinions and the right to display their opinions on their own property. If Joe wants to have a confederate flag hanging in front of his house, that's his business. If Jose wants to put Columbian stickers all over his car, that's his business. And if Jack wants to have a Sinn Fein tattoo, that's his business. As long as none of them push their opinions onto me or goes from displaying an opinion to being violent against other people.
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:55 PM   #10
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People are too politically correct these days...if you're white and proud, you're a racist. If you're from the south and you're proud of your Confederate heritage, you're a racist. If you're a member of the NAACP, you're a non-discriminatory African American. If you're white and you feel that the NAACP is racist, you're a racist. If your favorite channel is BET (Black Entertainment Television) and you have BET stickers/clothing that you proudly sport, you're a non-discriminatory African American. If you're white and you think BET is racist, you're a racist. If you offer scholarships for African American students, you're helping African Americans get ahead in life. If you offer a scholarship for whites only, not only are you a racist, but all hell is going to break loose.
You forgot the Miss Black America pageant.

Yea, I agree with you too. It's ALL racism and it's just wrong.
People are people. Good, bad and ugly, it's the individual. Not the color of their hide.

Heck, I'm pokadotted! (freckles)
Hmmm... Wonder if I could get a special parking spot for that.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:00 PM   #11
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Am I a racist if I hate everyone?
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:00 PM   #12
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Heck, I'm pokadotted! (freckles)
Hmmm... Wonder if I could get a special parking spot for that.
Well you can forget about having your own month. They're all taken.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:01 PM   #13
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:03 PM   #14
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Well you can forget about having your own month. They're all taken.
That's discrimination!
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:03 PM   #15
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Am I a racist if I hate everyone?
Nope, you're an equal opportunity hater.....
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:04 PM   #16
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Oh man, Illinois Nazi's!! I HATE Illinois Nazi's!!!!!!
Anyone? Anyone?
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:07 PM   #17
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Anyone? Anyone?
Blues Brothers.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:08 PM   #18
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Blues Brothers.
Classic. Didn't want this thread to be doom and gloom.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:09 PM   #19
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:11 PM   #20
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Classic. Didn't want this thread to be doom and gloom.
I don't want it to be doom and gloom either, but I'm just baffled by how quickly people point to racism when they see certain things, even if they have no trouble with the same type of racism (slogans, stickers, etc.) coming from a different group of people.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:16 PM   #21
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id like to redefine my thoughts. any proclamation in race is racism. and as i said. were all people. race is only skin deep. deep down we are all the same, so get over it.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:19 PM   #22
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Does that make St. Patrick's Day racist since it's all about the Irish?
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:21 PM   #23
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I’ll take a stab at explaining my position . . . of course this is just my opinion. First of all, my comment was directed at the White Pride aspect of the sticker more so than at the image of the Confederate Flag. Personally, I don’t feel that being White is anything to be proud of for one strikingly simple reason . . . I had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with it. My mother and father, who happen to be white, did the horizontal mambo and I am the result . . . I didn’t do a damn thing and have nothing to be proud of. Get an education and be proud of that. Work hard and be proud of what you have accomplished. Raise your kids well and be proud of them. Do something, anything, and take pride in what you have achieved. Personally, I find it to be rather pathetic for someone to take pride in the color of their skin when they did absolutely nothing to achieve it . . . White, Black, Brown, Yellow, Red . . . it doesn't make a difference. Maybe I just don’t get it.

I think you are interchanging skin color with heritage as if they are the same thing . . . I don’t consider the two to be the same. Mexican, Irish, Columbian, etc have to do with nationality not race. So comparing Bob being “Columbian and Proud” to Joe being “White and Proud” is a flawed comparison as one is a nationality and the other is a race. "American and Proud" would be the proper comparison, but that wouldn’t work to make the point you are trying to make. Now if Bob were to be “Brown and Proud” then you would have a valid argument comparing that comment to Joe being “White and Proud” . . . and to me, both would be rather pathetic.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:23 PM   #24
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Lets keep it civil, folks.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:24 PM   #25
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I was born and raised in the south. I have no problem with the confederate flag or the people who display it unless they truly are racists. The stars and bars were part of our state flag here for as long as I can remember. The flag that flew outside the hospital where I was born, the flag that hung just below the American Flag that I pledged my allegiance to each morning in school, the flag that waved over every goverment buidling and most of the churches in the state. We saw that flag everyday and all it stood for was the State of Georgia. Nothing else! Then someone came along and proclaimed that this historic icon stood for racism. It's strange that I never once looked at that flag and saw racism, it took someone who never lived here, who never was a part of this culture to tell us that preserving out heritage was a bad thing and that we had to change it because they didn't like it. I really don't care what color your skin is or where you come from, if you are a good person then I have no problem with you. If you have a problem with me simply because I was born and raised in the South, it's your problem..
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:28 PM   #26
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It was best explained here:

"WHITE "Pride"

This is great. I have been wondering about why Whites are racists, and no other race is.....

Proud to be White

Michael Richards makes his point....... .......
Michael Richards better known as Kramer from TVs Seinfeld does make a good point.


This was his defense speech in court after making racial comments in his comedy act. He makes some very interesting points...


Someone finally said it. How many are actually paying attention to this? There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc.

And then there are just Americans. You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You call me 'White boy,' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,' 'Whitey,' 'Caveman'... And that's OK.


But when I call you, ******, Kike, Towel head, Sand-******, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink .. You call me a racist.


You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you... So why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?


You have the UnitedNegroCollegeFund.. You have Martin Luther King Day.


You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day.


You have Yom Hashoah. You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.


You have the NAACP. You have BET... If we had WET (White Entertainment Television), we'd be racists. If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.


If we had White History Month, we'd be racists..


If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives, we'd be racists.


We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce. Wonder who pays for that??


A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.


If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships. .. You know we'd be racists.


There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US. Yet if there were 'White colleges', that would be a racist college.


In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.

You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.

You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.

I am proud... But you call me a racist.

Why is it that only whites can be racists??
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:30 PM   #27
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Personally, I find it to be rather pathetic for someone to take pride in the color of their skin when they did absolutely nothing to achieve it . . . White, Black, Brown, Yellow, Red . . . it doesn't make a difference. Maybe I just don’t get it.
I guess my question is, would you be as offended if he had a sticker that says "Black Pride" as you are if he has a sticker that says "White Pride"? And if not, why?

I don't think that being proud of your background - whether it's your race or your heritage - is necessarily wrong, but a lot of people seem to assume that pride means you will be prejudiced (pun intended) against people of other races or different heritage. (That's also the reason I used both race and heritage in my example, as they are often used interchangeably.)
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:34 PM   #28
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It's got a cop motor. A four hundred forty cubic inch plant. It's got cop tires cop suspension cop shocks...

I agree with AbbyK9. and everyone else.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:38 PM   #29
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Sorry to snip the post by Danimal, but this stands out -

Quote:
There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc.
I have lived in Europe for many years and I have never been anywhere in Europe where people add "qualifiers" (for lack of a better term) to their nationality. I don't know of anyone who refers to themselves as Turkish-German or Algerian-British.

I've always had an issue with the "-American" terms because they suggest that you are of two nationalities. In my opinion, if you were born in the United States and you are a US citizen, then you are an "American". If you were born in, for example, Japan and then came to the United States and became an American, then you are a "Japanese-American". If you were born in the United States but your parents were from another country, for example, Mexico, then you would be an American of Mexican descent. Make sense?

Speaking of which, I wanted to also add that I think the term African-American is a very badly chosen term because it refers to a race (black people) and not a heritage (African).

First off, it's a bad term because not all black people in the United States are from Africa - as my friend from the Virgin Islands used to say, "My family have not been "African" for a long time. I was born on the Islands and grew up in America. I'm not an African-American."

Secondly, it's a bad term because not all Americans of African descent or origin are black. My husband was born and raised in Salisbury, Rhodesia - which is now Harare, Zimbabwe. He came to the United States and is now a US citizen. He was African, now he is American, but he is not and will never be African-American because he is white.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:52 PM   #30
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raphie may, who is a great comedian, said it best. If you've never been to Africa how can you be African-American? If you've never been to Mexico how can you be Mexican american? Why aren't white people called European Americans? All I know is that I am an AMERICAN. And I am damn proud of it.

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