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Old 08-10-2010, 08:18 AM   #61
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:10 AM   #62
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As much as I tried to stay out of this discussion, I wanted to add a few points:

Do you REALLY think the news being reported on a corporate owned media outlet is anything but corporate agenda promotion? I constantly see people say "I researched this and it's true!!" Well, pay attention to where you're researching. Half the news outlets in this country get their info and stories from THE SAME PLACE. Conservatives and Liberals only see what they want to see. Half the stories you see in your "research" are coming from the same source that the corporate news outlets use, if not straight from the corporate news source itself!! Did you REALLY think you were going to learn some earth shattering revelation about our current administration? It's all rhetoric designed to stir like-minded people into a frenzy, and it worked, again.

While I don't point the racism finger at the Tea Party or the NAACP, what I am curious about is if these entities are claiming to be about defending the rights of Americans, are they looking out for ALL Americans, like muslims, gays, liberals and all the other people who don't follow their line of thinking? Our country was built as a melting pot of all the different cultures of the world. It seems like everyone forgets this when they talk about the principals this country was founded on and defending them. It's very funny to me how the NAACP was founded by whites and blacks (The Niagara Movement) The Niagara Movement
It's also kind of odd to see the demographics of the Tea Party: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us...1&ref=politics
Seems to me both groups are only concerned about a certain TYPE of American.

Conservatives seem to busy trying to promote a return to Republican government, Liberals seem too apathetic to notice what's happening. BOTH groups need to wake up. A return to Republican government is STILL not in the people's best interests, our government hasn't been "By the People, For the People" in decades, Republicans included. The Bill of Rights and the Constitution are mere tourist attractions and have been violated by BOTH parties for a LONG TIME. Do you really think a Republican majority will "fix" things? Supporting either party is supporting the status-quo. I'm not saying this country doesn't need a government, many Americans are far too wrapped up in their own little worlds to live for themselves and need someone to tell them what to do. What we need is a fundamental change in the way we look at ourselves and our country. No government can do this, we need to start thinking about what benefits ALL Americans, even those who think differently than us, and drop this "me first" attitude that has developed over the past couple of decades. It's not "Us vs. Them" it's Us vs. Us. We're ALL Americans and one of the best freedoms we have is the freedom to disagree. What happened to respecting that? America will never be perfect. There will always be the haves and the have nots. There will always be the selfish and there will always be the selfless. Politics are an evil, evil thing and have divided this country time and time again. United we stand, divided we fall. Until we can learn to put petty differences aside and work together, what do you think is going to happen?

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Old 08-10-2010, 09:15 AM   #63
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In response to the question, what has he done?


The Health Care Bill for one. Which has cost me my benefits already.
Bailing out private companies while cutting defense and aerospace funding.
Accepting shares of stock as payoff for said bailouts.

While I agree that neither party is even close to perfect, I believe that the electoral college is one of the biggest problems with our election process today and even if my vote doesn't count at least I am making a statement by voting and I will be there any time the polls are open to do so. I wouldn't let someone come into my home and harm my family without putting up a fight and I am sure as hell not going to sit quietly by and watch someone destroy my country.

Which reminds me, it's election day here in Georgia. Gotta go do my part.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:54 AM   #64
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In response to the question, what has he done?


The Health Care Bill for one. Which has cost me my benefits already.
Bailing out private companies while cutting defense and aerospace funding.
Accepting shares of stock as payoff for said bailouts.

While I agree that neither party is even close to perfect, I believe that the electoral college is one of the biggest problems with our election process today and even if my vote doesn't count at least I am making a statement by voting and I will be there any time the polls are open to do so. I wouldn't let someone come into my home and harm my family without putting up a fight and I am sure as hell not going to sit quietly by and watch someone destroy my country.

Which reminds me, it's election day here in Georgia. Gotta go do my part.
Sorry to butt in, but since we're having a civil discussion:

The Health Care Bill brought benefits to my sister in law, who is a stay at home mom with a (almost) 2 year old. Her husband works full time hours, but gets no benefits. These are people that deserve affordable health care. EVERYONE deserves affordable health care, and I'm sorry to hear you lost yours. It did just as much harm as it did good.

Defense? Aerospace? How about Education? Without education, we as people are defenseless.

I agree with you as stock for payment. Stock in a company the Government, or more accurately, the U.S. Taxpayer effectively owns. What good does that do all of us who were forced to pay into this debacle?

The electoral College is a farce, the Bush/Gore election proves this. Bush lost the popular vote, yet won the election. The whole election process is a joke. Look at the Florida "hanging chad" fiasco.
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:17 PM   #65
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honestly, this is what you went off of? A passed around urban legend and you posted it here. Great reliable source

Look, honestly again here is what is wrong with the Republican Party. They're attacking the President for wearing fancy pants. They're attacking the President for not being a US citizen. It's the same rhetoric over and over again.

Barack Obama is just as much as a natural born citizen as John McCain was. Even if he was born outside the US (as John McCain was) under Section 301(c) of the Immigration Act, ""And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens." Obama is just as much a citizen of the United States as John McCain is.

What's wrong with this country is all the party politics. The Dems do this. The Republicans do this. Honestly, if you think they're any different you're wrong. Corzine used NJ state funding to help fund three North Jersey Arenas and Horse Racing Parks. Gov Christie is eliminating that funding.... and giving it to Atlantic City instead! Under what President were the bailouts started? Republicans. Sure Dems love to lambast Republicans for the war, but Reps and Dems alike voted FOR and AGAINST the war. STOP PLAYING PARTY POLITICS, AND PLAY TO THE CANDIDATE! It's not an US v Them mentality we need - it's a what is best for the country.

Now that stated, without using these ridiculous preacher-style rhetoric (Chucky Cheese I'm looking at you) answer my question, what has Barack Obama done as a President that has absolutely destroyed our country and worse then other past Presidents have done?
I'm just a dumba$$ southern electrician. I cannot debate you on Obama minutia. Groundhawd pretty much sums up my political standings, except I vote at all elections. Obama has not destroyed this country yet as per your question. But he is a spoke in the wheel that is. He got voted in by a majority of people who want change. But change in the wrong direction. 40% of our population receives some sort of govt. financial help. This is what his admin. is based on. simply put socialism. The percentage is growing and is not sustainable. Healthcare reform is the first step. I pay 2400.00 a month for my wife and me with a 7000.00 deductible. Do I bitch,YEAH I do. But I do not have to sit in a stinking rathole doctors office with the masses and receive the same healthcare as them. This is capitalism! I work my a$$ off to afford this. And I resent a govt. that wants to give what I work hard for to everybody else. If I want to go to a fancy restaurant I work to make that money to go. I do not want to sit with the masses that get in because I do. I do not want a surcharge on my bill to pay for the masses to enjoy the luxeries that I work to enjoy! I could go on but time is limited. Obama is not a likable person. As a head of state he is arrogant and does not project what this country stands for. Does he make you proud? Not me he has a strange demeanor and really does not appear to love this country. Why is his past so secretive? He claims to be from middle class yet gets a Harvard education. Financing he explained by student loans being paid off by his writing publications. But why will he not produce his act sat scores? Just a few observations. As for the us verses them mentality he has brought that upon us. How? By hope and change. I do not want to work and be taxed so that the 40% and growing do not have enough ambition to go out and improve their lives because they get govt. help. Now don't jump on me because part of that 40% is social security And medicare. It is not all Lazy a$$ people. I KNOW that! The most lucrative job in this country is sales . And to back up what you sell. How do I know. I have to sell my business everyday. I had this one electrician that did good work but just rubbed the majority of my customers the wrong way. Could not sustain profit and headway with the community with this guy. Same thing with Obama. Not likable, no persona, seems to attract radicals, gets no respect from the wprld unless he cowtows to their whimsys. Hey I just gave you more info about me than that guy in the White House! Let me ask you this. Are you proud of him? Does he project true americanism? Does he really seem to love his country? Does he seem like true patriot. If no to any of theses questions that is the problem. In these tough times we need a true American leader that we know where he comes from, where he's been and is a good salesman of the american way. The man has not destroyed us but is working on it by dividing us by making us what we are not. A country dependent on Govt. aid which is socialism.
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:48 PM   #66
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I must disagree with the statements regarding the electoral college. The fact is, the electoral college does work and has worked for the entire history of our republic, and if abandoned would leave the decision of the presidency in the hands of the major cities and population areas. Overly simplified, New York, Chicago and Los Angeles would elect the president. Rural areas and smaller states would be left out completely. Look back to why it was instituted and those concerns/issues are still valid.

I do agree that if either party becomes too powerful they become corrupt. This is why I vote for the person, not the party. It just so happens that being a conservative, most of the people running who most closely hold to my views are Republican. Also, given the current political environment, I cannot depend on any conservative Democrats to vote in a way that I would agree with on major issues. I think Ben Nelson is sick and tired of hearing from me, and I also think that this will be his last term based on the current sentiment of the voters in this state. I believe that Obama is unqualified, too immature and too naive to serve as President and honestly is lack of economic and international experience are dangerous. In order to place a check on his recklessness we need the opposition party to control at the minimum the House of Representatives.

As far as the healthcare debate goes, I am thoroughly against any government mandates and requirements for the citizens to be forced to purchase anything, healthcare especially. There is no way that the government (we) will be able to afford this. I also disagree that anybody is being denied care in the United States for any type of emergency...that is currently against the law.

I am also sick and tired of made to feel like I have to apologize to my liberal friends for being patriotic and loving this country! Since when is it a bad thing to be proud to be an American and proud of all the great and good things this country has accomplished and stands for? Why does this President feel he must apologize to everybody for who we are and what we have done to help people around the world?

OK, back to Jeeps.
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Old 08-10-2010, 05:16 PM   #67
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^ What they said!

Simply put, hoorah and GOD BLESS AMERICA. GOD. If you dont like me saying GOD then GTFO and go back to whatever country you came from, you came here for a reason prolly for a better future. How about you not complain and appreciate what you have. People make me sick.

One more thing, i dont like my government in any form. But I love my country. Where's honest abe when you need him?
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:19 PM   #68
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Ha!! If I want to say Merry Christmas, it's because that's the holiday I'm celebrating. If someone replies Happy Hanukkah, I'm not going to get all bent out of shape about it. When did we get so damn sensitive about everything?
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:33 PM   #69
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Ha!! If I want to say Merry Christmas, it's because that's the holiday I'm celebrating. If someone replies Happy Hanukkah, I'm not going to get all bent out of shape about it. When did we get so damn sensitive about everything?
Because it is not a melting pot any more . We are becoming tribal like the middle east. Countries within a country.
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:10 PM   #70
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Because it is not a melting pot any more . We are becoming tribal like the middle east. Countries within a country.
That's very true. I'm now living in Korea. Every new shopping center and church is Korean. I'm either going to have to learn to speak it or move cause I can't read the signage.
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:13 PM   #71
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So I missed it. Did we find out the truth or what?
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:37 PM   #72
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That's my point. This admin. does not make you feel like you are a proud american. Whatever your ethnic heritage is, don't change this country to be your homeland. Embrace this country as your adopted homeland and homogenize with the american way. If you want your country of origins way, why are you here? Don't get me wrong as a white guy hollering for the old ways. I'm hollering for the AMERICAN WAY. I can see I can argue this point forever and detractors will gather and attack. But that is the freedom we have and I applaud it!
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:39 PM   #73
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No AS we did not find out the truth. it is as elusive as a winning lottery ticket.
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:59 PM   #74
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Look, honestly again here is what is wrong with the Republican Party. They're attacking the President for wearing fancy pants.
Who are they?
A small snippet of a commentator on a morning fluff program saying that critics are criticizing his attire and you claim she's the republican party? or perhaps the critics are the republican party? What critics were they? The header on screen said "film critic blasts Obama" how many republican film critics do you know?
Obama has received a great deal of criticism from the left over his bungling of the oil spill.

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They're attacking the President for not being a US citizen. It's the same rhetoric over and over again.
Again, who are "they"
Are you aware that the birther crap was started by a Hillary Clinton supporter during the primaries?

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Barack Obama is just as much as a natural born citizen as John McCain was. Even if he was born outside the US (as John McCain was) under Section 301(c) of the Immigration Act, ""And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens." Obama is just as much a citizen of the United States as John McCain is.
McCain was born on a U.S. military installation (U.S. soil), both his parents were American citizens and his eligibility was also questioned by fringe elements that opposed him.


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What's wrong with this country is all the party politics. The Dems do this. The Republicans do this. Honestly, if you think they're any different you're wrong. Corzine used NJ state funding to help fund three North Jersey Arenas and Horse Racing Parks. Gov Christie is eliminating that funding.... and giving it to Atlantic City instead! Under what President were the bailouts started? Republicans. Sure Dems love to lambast Republicans for the war, but Reps and Dems alike voted FOR and AGAINST the war. STOP PLAYING PARTY POLITICS, AND PLAY TO THE CANDIDATE! It's not an US v Them mentality we need - it's a what is best for the country.
And yet you play the same game when you attack the republicans by trying to associate the entire party with comments from fringe elements...

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Now that stated, without using these ridiculous preacher-style rhetoric (Chucky Cheese I'm looking at you) answer my question, what has Barack Obama done as a President that has absolutely destroyed our country and worse then other past Presidents have done?
I'm not Chucky Cheese but this is just too tempting to resist...

Quadrupling the debt in less than a year and trying to go even further.
Massive expanse of federal control over education, health care and the economy.
World apology tour.
Claiming he won't rest till the economy and oil spill are fixed but taking vacation after vacation.
Claims to be a constitutional scholar but obviously doesn't understand it or has never read it.
Plans to cause energy costs to, in his own words, "skyrocket" during a recession.
Plans to dramatically raise taxes during a recession.
Politicization of the war effort and then trying to take credit for Bush administration efforts while constantly blaming bush for everything that goes wrong.
Surrounding himself with self proclaimed Marxists and radicals
All these things hurt the country, opposing them is the right thing to do.
I could go on but that should be a good start.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:06 PM   #75
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Because it is not a melting pot any more . We are becoming tribal like the middle east. Countries within a country.

So what do you suggest? I'm not going to play the sympathy for the Native Americans card, but our ancestors were invaders in this land as well. What culture should be dominant? What religion? What language? Is the same negative stigma attached to Irish neighborhoods? Polish? Italian?
What is the definition of an American?
I don't ask to confront, I ask because I don't understand. We are a country that has no real culture of it's own, we are a mash-up of all cultures. How can we say it was right back then but not right now?
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:18 PM   #76
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As much as I tried to stay out of this discussion, I wanted to add a few points:

Do you REALLY think the news being reported on a corporate owned media outlet is anything but corporate agenda promotion? I constantly see people say "I researched this and it's true!!" Well, pay attention to where you're researching. Half the news outlets in this country get their info and stories from THE SAME PLACE. Conservatives and Liberals only see what they want to see. Half the stories you see in your "research" are coming from the same source that the corporate news outlets use, if not straight from the corporate news source itself!! Did you REALLY think you were going to learn some earth shattering revelation about our current administration? It's all rhetoric designed to stir like-minded people into a frenzy, and it worked, again.
So when fox news reports that member after member of the administration are self proclaimed communists and I go watch the video of them saying they are communists, or read papers written by them where they espouse their Marxist leanings, or watch video of them saying one of their favorite philosophers is Chairman Moa, that all just fabricated by the corporation right?
The best way to research something is to check the original source, it's usually not difficult if the report is based on facts.

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While I don't point the racism finger at the Tea Party or the NAACP, what I am curious about is if these entities are claiming to be about defending the rights of Americans, are they looking out for ALL Americans, like muslims, gays, liberals and all the other people who don't follow their line of thinking? Our country was built as a melting pot of all the different cultures of the world. It seems like everyone forgets this when they talk about the principals this country was founded on and defending them. It's very funny to me how the NAACP was founded by whites and blacks (The Niagara Movement) The Niagara Movement
It's also kind of odd to see the demographics of the Tea Party: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us...1&ref=politics
Seems to me both groups are only concerned about a certain TYPE of American.
Nonsense. The Tea Party has always been about fiscal responsibility. Fiscal responsibility has nothing to do with race or religion.

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Conservatives seem to busy trying to promote a return to Republican government, Liberals seem too apathetic to notice what's happening. BOTH groups need to wake up. A return to Republican government is STILL not in the people's best interests, our government hasn't been "By the People, For the People" in decades, Republicans included. The Bill of Rights and the Constitution are mere tourist attractions and have been violated by BOTH parties for a LONG TIME. Do you really think a Republican majority will "fix" things? Supporting either party is supporting the status-quo. I'm not saying this country doesn't need a government, many Americans are far too wrapped up in their own little worlds to live for themselves and need someone to tell them what to do. What we need is a fundamental change in the way we look at ourselves and our country. No government can do this, we need to start thinking about what benefits ALL Americans, even those who think differently than us, and drop this "me first" attitude that has developed over the past couple of decades. It's not "Us vs. Them" it's Us vs. Us. We're ALL Americans and one of the best freedoms we have is the freedom to disagree. What happened to respecting that? America will never be perfect. There will always be the haves and the have nots. There will always be the selfish and there will always be the selfless. Politics are an evil, evil thing and have divided this country time and time again. United we stand, divided we fall. Until we can learn to put petty differences aside and work together, what do you think is going to happen?
The Tea Party has been nearly as disgusted with the RINO's as they have been with the democrats.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:25 PM   #77
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I want what we all seem to want: To put the people in control of our country again. But, we need to realize who the people are. There will come a time when the current minorities become the majority and I think that scares a lot of people. I mean, what is the actual percentage of native spanish speakers who are legal citizens in this country? That number is growing every day. What happens when they are the majority? Is it right to stop that? If they become the majority in a democracy, they have the loudest voice. Then maybe they'll be telling us to speak spanish or get out. Does that make it right for us to be doing it now?
It's 2010, the world is changing and we must change with it. That's a simple fact. Things are not as black and white as they used to be. By our Constitution, these Koreans, Mexicans, Middle Easterners, they all have the exact same rights once they choose to become American Citizens that those of us who were born here have. Is it right to change this? Should we close our borders? Again, I ask not to confront, but because I want a better understanding of why so many people feel the way they do, especially lately.
I'm not saying I support the current administration and the work they have done to this point, the fact is I don't support any of the politicians in our current system because they do not represent the people. When our entire political class is made up of rich old men and women, how can the vast majority of honest, hard working folks ever expect a fair shake?
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:32 PM   #78
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First make english he official language. I know what you will reply. Why english. Thats what the the majority spoke as of a couple years ago. Take it from there. No multiple language aps. ect.ect.ect. This can boil down to the chicken and the egg thing. And if I remember the Irish, Italians, Spanish, French, Germans, Polish melted in pretty good and assimilated into the AMERICAN society. Sure they keep their traditions but I don't see any little flags on their mirrors. Is that because they are more civilized than current immigrants? Or is it that this country was so goo d they wanted to be AMERICAN. As Bill Murray said in stripes. We are a bunch of mutts! But I believe our beginning starts in 1776 and the language our constitution was drafted in.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:33 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister View Post
Sorry to butt in, but since we're having a civil discussion:

The Health Care Bill brought benefits to my sister in law, who is a stay at home mom with a (almost) 2 year old. Her husband works full time hours, but gets no benefits. These are people that deserve affordable health care. EVERYONE deserves affordable health care, and I'm sorry to hear you lost yours. It did just as much harm as it did good.
So your sister now has affordable health care? Under what part of the health care bill?
Why does her husband work full time and not receive benefits? Why should I be forced to pay for their health care? I've worked all my life to support my family and when I didn't get the pay or benefits I felt I needed I took personal responsibility and asked for an increase or changed jobs to correct the situation.

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Defense? Aerospace? How about Education? Without education, we as people are defenseless.
Liberals have been in control of education for decades and it done nothing but get worse.

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I agree with you as stock for payment. Stock in a company the Government, or more accurately, the U.S. Taxpayer effectively owns. What good does that do all of us who were forced to pay into this debacle?

The electoral College is a farce, the Bush/Gore election proves this. Bush lost the popular vote, yet won the election. The whole election process is a joke. Look at the Florida "hanging chad" fiasco.
Without the electoral college California New York and a few other large metro areas would control federal politics. Flyover country as it's referred to by the elitists would be completely ignored. Do you really think California is a good model for responsible government?
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Ha!! If I want to say Merry Christmas, it's because that's the holiday I'm celebrating. If someone replies Happy Hanukkah, I'm not going to get all bent out of shape about it. When did we get so damn sensitive about everything?
When the touchy feely bleeding heart liberals started shoving political correctness down our throats.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:41 PM   #80
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Mr Sinister, we cannot survive as separate ethnic tribes. We must have a common goal. There must be a common denominator and that is the melting pot. I see what you are saying if the majority are spanish why not the spanish language. Thats rolling over and giving things away. Make rules and stick by them and only the true seekers will prevail.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:45 PM   #81
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So when fox news reports that member after member of the administration are self proclaimed communists and I go watch the video of them saying they are communists, or read papers written by them where they espouse their Marxist leanings, or watch video of them saying one of their favorite philosophers is Chairman Moa, that all just fabricated by the corporation right?
The best way to research something is to check the original source, it's usually not difficult if the report is based on facts.


Nonsense. The Tea Party has always been about fiscal responsibility. Fiscal responsibility has nothing to do with race or religion.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

!


The Tea Party has been nearly as disgusted with the RINO's as they have been with the democrats.
What I'm saying is there is an blatant and obvious political bent in their reporting to the outside observer. Same with CNN, MSNBC, all of them. Not saying there is not truth in their reporting, what I am saying is there is not always the whole picture. Where are these videos? Who is the original source? I wont deny they are out there, but if what these news outlets "exposes" are such revelations, how is it nothing has been done? Why is this stuff not ALL OVER every media outlet? Why aren't foreign media outlets all over this, especially how they love to critique the U.S. so much? Fox is the only one telling the "truth"? NONE of them tell you everything.

I agree that the Tea Party has preached fiscal responsibility and I'm in total support of that. But, you cannot deny that the Tea Party attracts a quite radical fringe element itself. Then there's Mark Williams and the Tea Party Express. One bad apple does not spoil the bunch, but that works both ways. You can't deny that the vast majority of tea party members are middle aged white males. Why is that? Why is it that minorities traditionally always vote democrat? I respect the tea party's rights to assemble and have peaceful protests. They deserve to have their voices heard. BUT, they must also respect the fact that many people have questions about their interests. I'm calling it the way I see it. Do they want what's right for all of us, or just for them? I can't say.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:51 PM   #82
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I don't think the foreign media is reporting because they figure are hanging ourselves.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:51 PM   #83
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First make english he official language. I know what you will reply. Why english. Thats what the the majority spoke as of a couple years ago. Take it from there. No multiple language aps. ect.ect.ect. This can boil down to the chicken and the egg thing. And if I remember the Irish, Italians, Spanish, French, Germans, Polish melted in pretty good and assimilated into the AMERICAN society. Sure they keep their traditions but I don't see any little flags on their mirrors. Is that because they are more civilized than current immigrants? Or is it that this country was so goo d they wanted to be AMERICAN. As Bill Murray said in stripes. We are a bunch of mutts! But I believe our beginning starts in 1776 and the language our constitution was drafted in.
Ok, but nowhere in the Constitution does it say that english is the official language of America. Many of the people who settled our 13 colonies were not english speakers, but were german and dutch. I do agree that it makes things much easier for us all to learn one language, but again, what happens when majority rule changes demographics?
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:52 PM   #84
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I can not speak to the depth that many of you have on this subject. I have never been very political. The reason for that is from my experience, the more you look into the more it comes down to one fundamental issue. Our entire government is corrupt. Every single part of it. I don't point fingers at one side or another because in my eyes they are all far beyond what the intended purpose of our government was.

There is no longer a voice for the average American, over the years it has become the upper 5% of our society and Big Business that have a voice.
I don't agree with everything Obama has done but then again I don't feel that he is destroying our country. We needed a change, the old system was all ready destroying our country and had been for years. Our country was slowly coming down around our ears. Obama may not be perfect, he is after all human, but I am happy to see some one stand up and try to do things differently.

Keep in mind that when you have to make plans for a country, hardly anything is short term. Things may seem like a bad idea now, but when my children or even grand children are adults things could be much different for them. The way we were going, the working person in America could not afford basic health care for their family, how much would it have cost in 15-20 years. For example, I live in a very rural state, and work at one of the best paying places in my town. I have co workers that have a family plan through our employer, that bring home $200 every pay period (Bi weekly) after the insurance comes out (close to $600). I don't know about you but I couldn't raise a family on that take home.


In closing, Obama may not be perfect but I guarantee there are worse in our government, they just are not in the spotlight. And as it was said before, we did elect him...and we all know he won simply because he pushed CHANGE.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:52 PM   #85
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we are hanging ourselves.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:53 PM   #86
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I want what we all seem to want: To put the people in control of our country again. But, we need to realize who the people are. There will come a time when the current minorities become the majority and I think that scares a lot of people. I mean, what is the actual percentage of native spanish speakers who are legal citizens in this country? That number is growing every day. What happens when they are the majority? Is it right to stop that? If they become the majority in a democracy, they have the loudest voice. Then maybe they'll be telling us to speak spanish or get out. Does that make it right for us to be doing it now?
It's 2010, the world is changing and we must change with it. That's a simple fact. Things are not as black and white as they used to be. By our Constitution, these Koreans, Mexicans, Middle Easterners, they all have the exact same rights once they choose to become American Citizens that those of us who were born here have. Is it right to change this? Should we close our borders? Again, I ask not to confront, but because I want a better understanding of why so many people feel the way they do, especially lately.
I'm not saying I support the current administration and the work they have done to this point, the fact is I don't support any of the politicians in our current system because they do not represent the people. When our entire political class is made up of rich old men and women, how can the vast majority of honest, hard working folks ever expect a fair shake?
By banding together as the Tea Party is doing and demanding it.

Making English the official language and requiring emigrants to learn it would save American tax payers a tremendous amount of money, would make the emigrants lives much easier. Most business is conducted in English, most road signs are in English. Most people, including Emigrants already speak English. Not learning the language severely limits a persons ability to succeed.
Only a very small fringe element want to close the borders to all emigration. The vast majority of us like and want emigrants, people willing to go through the effort to legally emigrate here tend to be very industrious and an overall benefit to the country. Those willing to break the law and take the easy wat hurt the country.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:55 PM   #87
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Mr Sinister, we cannot survive as separate ethnic tribes. We must have a common goal. There must be a common denominator and that is the melting pot.
I could not agree more with that. Well said.
Now we just need to figure out how to make that work.

I think it begins with people believing there is positive incentive toward working and communicating as one. With so much negative out there, it's tough to see the positives.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:58 PM   #88
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Ok, but nowhere in the Constitution does it say that english is the official language of America. Many of the people who settled our 13 colonies were not english speakers, but were german and dutch. I do agree that it makes things much easier for us all to learn one language, but again, what happens when majority rule changes demographics?
There must be an official language. What about all of our street signs? I was looking at a blowup raft and it had warnings in ten languages.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:06 PM   #89
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That seems to be one of the problems that we are having here in my little haven. With the influx of Korean businesses and the signage in Korean, our emergency responders, (police and fire departments) are having a difficult time locating them. The city tried to post an ordinance asking the names also be in english. Unforturnately that violates their freedom of speech.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:07 PM   #90
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So your sister now has affordable health care? Under what part of the health care bill?
Why does her husband work full time and not receive benefits? Why should I be forced to pay for their health care? I've worked all my life to support my family and when I didn't get the pay or benefits I felt I needed I took personal responsibility and asked for an increase or changed jobs to correct the situation.

Liberals have been in control of education for decades and it done nothing but get worse.

Without the electoral college California New York and a few other large metro areas would control federal politics. Flyover country as it's referred to by the elitists would be completely ignored. Do you really think California is a good model for responsible government?
By the simple fact that we are now all responsible for looking out for those less fortunate. I don't support helping those who won't help themselves, but I'd gladly help out honest folks who fall on hard times. Looking out for our fellow Americans used to be what we were all about.
He works full time hours, but is employed as part time so his company doesn't have to pay for his benefits. That's a whole different problem. I don't agree with the heavy handed way this was put into action, it only puts a band-aid of taxpayer dollars on a much larger problem. The entire health care industry needs some serious work, but the easy way out was to just throw more money, OUR money, at the problem. I've paid into Social Security my whole working life, just to see it dipped into and ravaged for this and that. There will be nothing left for me when I am of the age to retire, which oddly enough, keeps getting pushed back for full benefits. How is that fair?
Social Security is as Socialist as you can get. Remember that.

Whatever you want to call those in charge of education, it damn sure does keep getting worse.

But it's proven that inner city voters, those that make up the majority of city population, don't vote.

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