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Old 08-10-2010, 10:10 PM   #91
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There must be an official language. What about all of our street signs? I was looking at a blowup raft and it had warnings in ten languages.
now i can answer that one. it's just cheaper to print on a gazillion languages and put the same document in every box when you ship a product internationally.

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Old 08-10-2010, 10:12 PM   #92
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I don't think the foreign media is reporting because they figure are hanging ourselves.
I don't believe that, they are always there to tie the knot when we hang ourselves. Everything GWB did was reported on a global scale.

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Old 08-10-2010, 10:16 PM   #93
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That seems to be one of the problems that we are having here in my little haven. With the influx of Korean businesses and the signage in Korean, our emergency responders, (police and fire departments) are having a difficult time locating them. The city tried to post an ordinance asking the names also be in english. Unforturnately that violates their freedom of speech.
that's the positive incentive i'm talking about. i can't wait for the lawsuits when someone who doesn't speak english dies because they couldn't communicate with rescue worker. that's the biggest problem with our system. it's easier to sue and have us foot the bill than to create valid reasons why we need at least some universal communication here.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:19 PM   #94
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i appreciate the friendly, intelligent discussion so far, i enjoy learning other people's opinions and viewpoints, even if i don't always agree.
but it's off to bed. to be continued!!
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:25 PM   #95
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What I'm saying is there is an blatant and obvious political bent in their reporting to the outside observer. Same with CNN, MSNBC, all of them. Not saying there is not truth in their reporting, what I am saying is there is not always the whole picture. Where are these videos? Who is the original source? I wont deny they are out there, but if what these news outlets "exposes" are such revelations, how is it nothing has been done? Why is this stuff not ALL OVER every media outlet? Why aren't foreign media outlets all over this, especially how they love to critique the U.S. so much? Fox is the only one telling the "truth"? NONE of them tell you everything.
Fox news is the only news network with a conservative bent, the others are decidedly liberal and actively support Obama and his march to socialism.

Here's a couple real quick.






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I agree that the Tea Party has preached fiscal responsibility and I'm in total support of that. But, you cannot deny that the Tea Party attracts a quite radical fringe element itself.
Nope, every movement will attract a fringe. Do you dwell on a small fraction and try to use it to smear the group as a whole as the liberal media has been doing? or do you look at the group and their message as a whole?

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Then there's Mark Williams and the Tea Party Express. One bad apple does not spoil the bunch, but that works both ways.
The Tea Party express is not the Tea Party, they are a separate group that formed to take advantage of the movement and from what I understand, Mark Williams was removed was he not?

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You can't deny that the vast majority of tea party members are middle aged white males. Why is that? Why is it that minorities traditionally always vote democrat?
The democrats are very good at playing identity politics, playing one group off another and buying votes by promising extras for minorities.
Conservatives expect everyone to be treated equally. Everyone should have the same exact chance at success from a government standpoint. No one should be more equal than another.
If you have 2 men, one offers to pay people to be his friend while the other says everyone is welcome to be his friend but the obligations of friendship go both ways and his friends will be held to the same standard. Which one do you suppose is going to have more friends?



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I respect the tea party's rights to assemble and have peaceful protests. They deserve to have their voices heard. BUT, they must also respect the fact that many people have questions about their interests. I'm calling it the way I see it. Do they want what's right for all of us, or just for them? I can't say.
Fiscal responsibility in government and the rule of law applied equally is right for all Americans.

I didn't join the Tea Party till I checked it out for myself. I read their blogs, got their newsletters and attended their events to see for myself. I can tell you for a fact, it is not as it is being portrayed by the liberals.
I've stood next to Hispanics, Asians and Black Americans at Tea Party rallies.
You can believe what the left wants you to believe, or you're welcome to come to an event and see for yourself.
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:33 PM   #96
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I don't believe that, they are always there to tie the knot when we hang ourselves. Everything GWB did was reported on a global scale.
Which foreign media do you monitor? Most of western Europe is heavily socialist and despised Bush as a conservative. Most of them agree with socialism/marxism.
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:17 AM   #97
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Nope, every movement will attract a fringe. Do you dwell on a small fraction and try to use it to smear the group as a whole as the liberal media has been doing? or do you look at the group and their message as a whole?


The Tea Party express is not the Tea Party, they are a separate group that formed to take advantage of the movement and from what I understand, Mark Williams was removed was he not?


The democrats are very good at playing identity politics, playing one group off another and buying votes by promising extras for minorities.
Conservatives expect everyone to be treated equally. Everyone should have the same exact chance at success from a government standpoint. No one should be more equal than another.
If you have 2 men, one offers to pay people to be his friend while the other says everyone is welcome to be his friend but the obligations of friendship go both ways and his friends will be held to the same standard. Which one do you suppose is going to have more friends?

Fiscal responsibility in government and the rule of law applied equally is right for all Americans.

I didn't join the Tea Party till I checked it out for myself. I read their blogs, got their newsletters and attended their events to see for myself. I can tell you for a fact, it is not as it is being portrayed by the liberals.
I've stood next to Hispanics, Asians and Black Americans at Tea Party rallies.
You can believe what the left wants you to believe, or you're welcome to come to an event and see for yourself.
I haven't said any thing disparaging about the Tea Party, have I? So obviously I see what their message is, but I also WANTED to see what their message is. You can't deny they have a bad reputation to a lot to people, and it's irresponsible to just say "Well who cares about them". If they want to be taken seriously, they need to reach out to everyone.

Mark Williams was removed and he should have been. But an affiliate group gone rouge still casts a bad shadow on the group as a whole in the eyes of the people who are already questioning the Tea Party's motifs. It might be a bad comparison, but if an apple has a rotten piece, most people throw the apple away, not cut out the bad bit and still eat it.

I don't think EITHER party has the whole of the American people's best interests at heart.

Again, agreed on fiscal responsibility.

Now, please do not make the mistake of painting me as a liberal or that I'm more influenced by liberal media, I have just as many questions for liberals as I do conservatives. But since this is a conservative discussion, you do the math. I consider myself as middle of the road as you can get. I agree with some liberal and some conservative policy, but I refuse to follow either. The moment you stop questioning your leaders is the moment you lose your rights. I ask because I want to know, not to challenge. Too many of these discussions degrade into pointless name-calling because people have to lump us into one group or another. I believe only what I see for myself. That's why we're having this discussion.
I did attend a Tea Party rally in my town (Elkton, Maryland) last May to see for myself and I will say it was a very welcoming group. But the first thing I noticed was there was not one minority there out of several hundred people. At least I didn't see them. I also noticed many people carrying guns in plain sight. While I support the right to bear arms and I own several guns myself, you have to understand how off-putting that is to everyone who isn't a white male. A bunch of white guys with guns from a (just being honest) redneck town in a redneck county is not going to attract many people outside the box. I also did not feel like my curiosity would have been welcomed had I asked the same questions there as I have here. This is the image problem that faces your group. It's easy to see from the outside and I can understand how it must make you feel, but I'm being honest here.
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:21 AM   #98
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Which foreign media do you monitor? Most of western Europe is heavily socialist and despised Bush as a conservative. Most of them agree with socialism/marxism.
The BBC. They are the largest broadcasting group in the world and have affiliates all over the world.
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Old 08-11-2010, 04:49 PM   #99
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I haven't said any thing disparaging about the Tea Party, have I? So obviously I see what their message is, but I also WANTED to see what their message is. You can't deny they have a bad reputation to a lot to people, and it's irresponsible to just say "Well who cares about them". If they want to be taken seriously, they need to reach out to everyone.
And how do you suggest they do that? I see this complaint from you folks quite a bit but strangely I never see you guys post suggestions on how to fix the problem...
When somebody shows up with offensive signs they get asked to leave or heckled until they do. Holding a public event on public property means the public, no matter who they are, can't be excluded unless they break the law.
When somebody makes inappropriate statements and either is or claims to be a member of the organizing group they are kicked out and statements made clarifying that that's not what we are about.
Our leaders hold news conference after news conference condemning racism but that gets ignored by the media.
Our prominent black members hold a press conference to point out that there are indeed minorities in the Tea Party and that gets ignored.
We tell everybody with any interest to come on down and see the truth for themselves.
What more do you want?
How do we get the major media who hold a diametrically opposed political philosophy to give us fair coverage?



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Mark Williams was removed and he should have been. But an affiliate group gone rouge still casts a bad shadow on the group as a whole in the eyes of the people who are already questioning the Tea Party's motifs. It might be a bad comparison, but if an apple has a rotten piece, most people throw the apple away, not cut out the bad bit and still eat it.
Sorry but, are you serious? One member of the group makes inappropriate comments and gets kicked out and suddenly it's a group gone rogue?
What more do you want?

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I don't think EITHER party has the whole of the American people's best interests at heart.
Neither do we, that would be why we have opposed and defeated the republican establishment candidates in several races already.
The Tea Party has made it very clear, even if you guys want to ignore it, that we disagree with the republican establishment nearly as much as we despise the democrats.

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Again, agreed on fiscal responsibility.
That's nice. what have you done to work toward it?

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Now, please do not make the mistake of painting me as a liberal or that I'm more influenced by liberal media, I have just as many questions for liberals as I do conservatives.
I don't need to paint you as a liberal, you do that quite well on your own. Just read your next statement...
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But since this is a conservative discussion, you do the math. I consider myself as middle of the road as you can get. I agree with some liberal and some conservative policy, but I refuse to follow either. The moment you stop questioning your leaders is the moment you lose your rights. I ask because I want to know, not to challenge. Too many of these discussions degrade into pointless name-calling because people have to lump us into one group or another. I believe only what I see for myself. That's why we're having this discussion.
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I did attend a Tea Party rally in my town (Elkton, Maryland) last May to see for myself and I will say it was a very welcoming group. But the first thing I noticed was there was not one minority there out of several hundred people. At least I didn't see them.
You went to one event in what you describe as "a redneck town in a redneck county" you didn't see one minority so the media smear must be right...
Did you watch the video I posted?
Try reading this from Gallop.
Tea Partiers Are Fairly Mainstream in Their Demographics
Looks to me like Tea Party supporters are fairly representative of the population as a whole. Still want to argue that we're just a bunch of white rednecks?


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I also noticed many people carrying guns in plain sight. While I support the right to bear arms and I own several guns myself, you have to understand how off-putting that is to everyone who isn't a white male. A bunch of white guys with guns from a (just being honest) redneck town in a redneck county is not going to attract many people outside the box. I also did not feel like my curiosity would have been welcomed had I asked the same questions there as I have here. This is the image problem that faces your group. It's easy to see from the outside and I can understand how it must make you feel, but I'm being honest here.
As I've stated in a previous discussion on the Tea Party, I'm not member of the Tea Party for gun rights, I don't carry my gun openly to events although I do carry my gun so this really isn't my issue but, This is America and these are public events, if open carry is legal then those that open carry cannot be excluded unless they commit a crime. Americans have the right to keep and Bear arms, you claim to support that as long as people can't see it...
Do you see a problem with your stance?
We have been threatened, our members have been assaulted by leftists. I don't see a problem with people being ready to defend themselves and making sure others know it.

Perhaps your area is different than where I live because when I went to my first event I found the people eager to answer any question I had. Perhaps if you had actually tried you would have been surprised.
I do give you credit though. You're the first person I've had this debate with that actually claimed to have taken the time to see for themselves.

So, if you have any suggestions on how to correct these problems you claim we have, or to get the liberal media to give us a fair shake then I'm all ears.
If you have any legitimate questions about the Tea Party I'll be happy to answer them or direct you to somebody that can.
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:00 PM   #100
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And out come the labels, rational discussion over. "Liberal" is a derogatory term when it's used by Conservatives. So I am a liberal for not thinking the same way you do?
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:39 PM   #101
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And out come the labels, rational discussion over. "Liberal" is a derogatory term when it's used by Conservatives. So I am a liberal for not thinking the same way you do?
Hmm, just from this thread,
You've spent a good part of this thread regurgitating the same baseless smears used by the left to attack the Tea Party.
You support socialized health care.
You're against border enforcement.
You stated very clearly that you support liberal policies...
Sounds pretty liberal to me but I'm pretty hardcore conservative.
You want a rational discussion then address my points. Continuing to push the liberal smear that the Tea Party is a bunch of racist rednecks ceased being rational long ago. I think I've shown that it's a lie. A particularly offensive lie.
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Old 08-11-2010, 06:04 PM   #102
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I spoke from my experience and what I have seen first hand. That's all. I asked questions because I wanted a deeper understanding. What have I done to this point to "smear" your group? Asking questions? Providing an outside point of view? I didn't ask for the same links and youtube videos that I've seen a thousand times, I asked for YOUR thoughts. You don't know my politics, yet you claim I'm a liberal when I actually said "I agree with some liberal and some conservative policy". Ignoring part of a statement is a typical tactic that I've faced time and time again trying to have a rational discussion with people of the far right or left. Now you claim to assume you know my politics? Nonsense!! I will not continue this discussion with someone who pigeon holes anyone they think they can lump into a group. In the eyes of the far right and left, anyone who disagrees is the enemy. You call me a liberal, next I'll be a progressive, then a socialist, then a communist. THIS is where you group will fail. It's the "Us vs. Them" mentality. More Division is NOT what we need.

It's not YOUR country, it's OUR country.
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Old 08-11-2010, 06:19 PM   #103
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I spoke from my experience and what I have seen first hand. That's all. I asked questions because I wanted a deeper understanding. What have I done to this point to "smear" your group? Asking questions? Providing an outside point of view? I didn't ask for the same links and youtube videos that I've seen a thousand times, I asked for YOUR thoughts. You don't know my politics, yet you claim I'm a liberal when I actually said "I agree with some liberal and some conservative policy". Ignoring part of a statement is a typical tactic that I've faced time and time again trying to have a rational discussion with people of the far right or left. Now you claim to assume you know my politics? Nonsense!! I will not continue this discussion with someone who pigeon holes anyone they think they can lump into a group. In the eyes of the far right and left, anyone who disagrees is the enemy. You call me a liberal, next I'll be a progressive, then a socialist, then a communist. THIS is where you group will fail. It's the "Us vs. Them" mentality. More Division is NOT what we need.

It's not YOUR country, it's OUR country.
I didn't call you a liberal, I didn't claim to know your politics, I simply pointed out that the views you yourself have posted in this thread are liberal.
I've given you my views point by point, I've posted links to videos and polls which back my views and yet you keep coming back with the same tired old insinuation that the Tea Party is racist.
If you want to ignore the evidence, if you want to resort to this school yard name calling nonsense, that's your choice.
My group isn't failing, my group continues to grow and win. More and more people are seeing through the lefts lies.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:19 PM   #104
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"I don't need to paint you as a liberal, you do that quite well on your own"
Sounds like you labeling me a liberal to me......

Where did I call your group racist? I simply put that you can't deny that the membership of your group is largely one type of person, and then asked as to why that is. Furthermore, where did I even mention border enforcement? How are you coming up with this? Your entire previous post is claiming to know my politics when I have not said ONCE what I believe or don't believe here. Everything you said in that post is based on NOTHING but your own preconceived notions of what people who aren't of your mindset must think.

I want to resort to name calling? WHO have I called anything? I believe you chose to label me a liberal, did you not?

You clearly do not want to continue a civil discussion and you are now resorting to not only twisting what I have said, but downright making things up. You've done nothing but further reinforce the perceived close-mindedness of your tea party. If you want to continue putting your politics in our faces with your signature links, fine, it's your right to, but know that you're opinion isn't any more correct or valid than anyone else.

But know this: Outside of this discussion, we are both still Americans. We both know some bad stuff is going down and we both want it fixed. I love our country, I love our freedoms. We need to find a way to work together on this thing. I already know the first steps (voting), but where will we go from there? We need a plan for our future, ALL of our futures. Our inability to see eye to eye is not uncommon, and that's fine. So long as you have the best interests of our fellow countrymen in mind, you're still a brother to me.
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Old 08-12-2010, 03:07 PM   #105
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"I don't need to paint you as a liberal, you do that quite well on your own"
Sounds like you labeling me a liberal to me......
You warned me not to try and paint you as a liberal as if you feared I would, I simply tried to ease your fear by pointing out that your own words speak for themselves...

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Where did I call your group racist? I simply put that you can't deny that the membership of your group is largely one type of person, and then asked as to why that is.
I didn't say you called them racists, I said you implied it.
You did so from your first post on the subject.
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While I don't point the racism finger at the Tea Party or the NAACP, what I am curious about is if these entities are claiming to be about defending the rights of Americans, are they looking out for ALL Americans, like muslims, gays, liberals and all the other people who don't follow their line of thinking? Our country was built as a melting pot of all the different cultures of the world. It seems like everyone forgets this when they talk about the principals this country was founded on and defending them. It's very funny to me how the NAACP was founded by whites and blacks (The Niagara Movement) The Niagara Movement
It's also kind of odd to see the demographics of the Tea Party: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/...p;ref=politics
Seems to me both groups are only concerned about a certain TYPE of American.
At this point I gave you the benefit of the doubt and tried to answer your question. but you came back telling me I can't deny this and can't deny that and still I tried to answer your questions but even now you still try telling me I can't deny that the Tea Party is "one type of person" even after I posted the link to the Gallop poll sponsored by USA Today, which shows that the demographics of the Tea Party supporters matches the demographics of the country as a whole pretty well.
In fact, the majority of Tea Party supporters are not white men. There's 45% women, 6% black and 15% other. That's 66% that are not white men.
I posted a video of prominent black Tea Party supporters giving a press conference to dispel the myth of racism in the Tea Party but you choose to ignore this evidence and continue to make comments like "A bunch of white guys with guns" and "the first thing I noticed was there was not one minority there out of several hundred people. At least I didn't see them." and "one type of person" apparently insinuating that there's some nefarious reason for these things. No, you don't come out and say they're racist but your comments leave that little lingering doubt in peoples minds that works so well.


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Furthermore, where did I even mention border enforcement? How are you coming up with this? Your entire previous post is claiming to know my politics when I have not said ONCE what I believe or don't believe here. Everything you said in that post is based on NOTHING but your own preconceived notions of what people who aren't of your mindset must think.
Oh how horrible of me, I took little snippets of your comments and exaggerated it into a horrible accusation that you're a liberal!!!
That's simply awful. That's almost as bad as saying all NFL fans are religious fanatics because some goofball shows up at a football game wearing a clown wig and carrying a John 3:16 sign, or...wait for it...Implying that Tea Party supporters are racists because a few people out of the tens, if not hundreds of thousands who have attended Tea Party events have made inappropriate comments or carried questionable signs even though they were run off when they did it. Funny how that works isn't it...
Now, maybe I'm reading you wrong, only you know for sure but I've had and seen this same debate play out time after time over the last two years and it always goes the same way so when you keep ignoring my answers and keep making the same insinuation I have to start to wonder.

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I want to resort to name calling? WHO have I called anything? I believe you chose to label me a liberal, did you not?
In point of fact, by your own words, you are considerably more liberal than I but I wouldn't have said anything had you not chosen to give me your little warning.
What I meant by resorting to name calling is your focusing on the perceived insult of implying you are liberal rather than addressing any of the other points I made.

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You clearly do not want to continue a civil discussion and you are now resorting to not only twisting what I have said, but downright making things up. You've done nothing but further reinforce the perceived close-mindedness of your tea party. If you want to continue putting your politics in our faces with your signature links, fine, it's your right to, but know that you're opinion isn't any more correct or valid than anyone else.
I would love to have a civil discussion but after 2 years of constant attacks from the leftist smear machine I've grown a little tired of the baseless racist accusations.


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But know this: Outside of this discussion, we are both still Americans. We both know some bad stuff is going down and we both want it fixed. I love our country, I love our freedoms. We need to find a way to work together on this thing. I already know the first steps (voting), but where will we go from there? We need a plan for our future, ALL of our futures. Our inability to see eye to eye is not uncommon, and that's fine. So long as you have the best interests of our fellow countrymen in mind, you're still a brother to me.
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Old 08-12-2010, 03:48 PM   #106
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Old 08-12-2010, 05:04 PM   #107
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Old 08-12-2010, 06:26 PM   #108
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God bless you, buddy.
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:22 PM   #109
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I don't see the big deal with the Tea Party. They just seem like republicans to me.
I'm not one to get naked and lubed up while watching Fox News or CNN so don't expect me to be up on everything going on but I do know that the older I get the more I realize that we are just a bunch of tools with all this political bickering.
We talk of how corrupt government is and how we need new blood but then when they get there it's the same old thing. George Carlin once said something along the lines of "The reason the elected officials are messed up is because we're messed up. They are us".
Furthermore, everybody sees it fine to rip the federal government when it's usually your local government sticking it to you...imo of course.
Carry on......
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:09 PM   #110
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Agreed.
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Old 08-13-2010, 09:21 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by sonofabeach View Post
I don't see the big deal with the Tea Party. They just seem like republicans to me.
We're mostly the fiscal conservative wing of the republican party. The big deal is never before have fiscal conservatives been willing to organize and get out and protest. That has always been the specialty of the left and to some small degree, the religious folks. The idea that we're adopting the tactics of the left scares the crap out of them because they know it works.

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Originally Posted by sonofabeach View Post
I'm not one to get naked and lubed up while watching Fox News or CNN so don't expect me to be up on everything going on but I do know that the older I get the more I realize that we are just a bunch of tools with all this political bickering.
We talk of how corrupt government is and how we need new blood but then when they get there it's the same old thing. George Carlin once said something along the lines of "The reason the elected officials are messed up is because we're messed up. They are us".
Furthermore, everybody sees it fine to rip the federal government when it's usually your local government sticking it to you...imo of course.
Carry on......
The problem is we've severely dumbed down or stopped teaching history and civics in school. It's amazing to me how many people I run into that don't have even the most basic idea of how the government was intended to run. How much it's been changed and what those changes have done to cause many of the problems we have today.
Most people think that they're only responsibility is voting, if they even consider that a responsibility. If you ran a business and hired an employee, you wouldn't just set him to work and forget him. You would monitor what he does and if he starts screwing up you would take increasingly severe corrective action, if he didn't straiten up you would replace him. Politicians are our employees, it's our responsibility to monitor correct and then replace. Voting is only one step in our responsibility.
The Tea Party is the people standing up and demanding our employees start conducting themselves within the bounds of the Constitution that governs them. Anyone that doesn't think we are being heard hasn't been paying attention. Even the democrats running for office are trying to out conservative each other. They aren't doing that because of obama's hopy changy crap, they are doing it because the people are getting increasingly pissed at the out of control spending and growth of government.
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:41 PM   #112
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I was looking at a blowup raft and it had warnings in ten languages.
Was that right after Katrina chucky, or are you preparing for the complete sinking of America ?
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:56 PM   #113
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Was that right after Katrina chucky, or are you preparing for the complete sinking of America ?
HA! thats good pokey. Actually I thought it was a cool design until I got a closer look. The warnings in all languages on earth were on this thing. Allthe way from english to arabic. Do desert people actually know what a flotation device is? Which reminds me we rescued a middle east guy and his eyes were bugged out like a cartoon. What water this is? Why water swallow my car? Why cannot I see ground? I think he is stiil traumitized. Probably craps in his pants when it rains!
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Old 08-13-2010, 11:17 PM   #114
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Skeeter\Sinister

I want to start this off by saying that I intend absolutely no disrespect to either of you, you both appear to be intelligent individuals who are more knowledgeable than me when it comes to politics.

But you two do realize that you both sound like the type of people that would be right at home in our current government. Swinging away and pointing fingers at each other rather than joining forces. I have to say that sounds a lot like what our elected officials do that has put this country in the position it is in. This happens all to often, the issue is buried under the party lines and it turns into a third grade contest involving a ruler.

You both can't tell me that with in the first 10 post's of your conversation that you could not see that your point's of view were different. But you insisted on continuing to go back and forth about who's view was right, rather than conceding that perhaps your view was not the only view and working together to achieve the same over all goal.


There is more than one road to every destination, stop trying to tell each other that your road is better and instead why not just carpool and split the gas money......Even if that means one of you has to back off and be the bigger man, isn't it better to get to the end of the road than it is to park on the shoulder and fight about who is driving?

Feel free to completly ignore everything I have said, just don't argue about the best way to do it

Again no disrespect intended and I sincerly hope none was taken.

Wild
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:07 AM   #115
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that's why i just let it go.
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Old 08-14-2010, 12:04 PM   #116
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I have absolutely no personal animosity toward Mr. Sinister, we may disagree politically but as he said, in the end we're both Americans.
As for compromising. Our disagreement seems to have been whether or not the Tea Party is a racist organization. In what way should we compromise? should I accept that we are a racist organization? even a little bit? Would you accept being called a racist?

Compromising in politics. If you truly believe that a policy proposed by the other side would do harm to the country should you let them do it just a little bit just to keep the peace? And if you do and the next time it comes up, do you let them do it a little more? just to keep the peace? At what point does it end?

Our federal government is vastly larger, more powerful, more intrusive and more expensive than it was ever intended to be because we have compromised over and over again. at some point we have to say enough. Many of us feel that that point is now. It's gone too far and must be stopped.
Compromising further means letting the government get larger, more powerful, more intrusive and more expensive. Are these things beneficial or harmful to the country?

As for the animosity in politics. People keep making it sound like this is something new. Study history, it's been much more heated in the past and will likely be much more heated in the future. It's the nature of politics and it has been throughout history.

This in my opinion is the problem with America today. We've allowed our educational system to be dumbed down to such a degree that our kids can graduate without the most basic understanding of our own history and how our government was supposed to run. America is a constitutional republic not a democracy. Why? because throughout history democracies have failed and failed miserably. People just don't have the time to run their lives and study the nuances of government so we hire professionals to do it for us. Just like if your Jeep breaks down and you don't have the skill set needed to repair it you would hire a mechanic. You tell him what you want done and he applies his knowledge and ability to do it. It's the same with your representatives in government.

People keep complaining that the constitution has been trampled, that it no longer controls those it was meant to control. Why has that happened? Our system was designed with checks and balances to keep things from getting out of control and over the last hundred years or so we've allowed, through compromise, those checks and balances of power to be eroded. Did you know that senators weren't supposed to be voted in to office? they were supposed to be appointed by the states. Why? Because they were supposed to represent the states and be a check on the house of representatives. They were supposed to protect the states authority from the federal government.
If you get a particularly charismatic leader or a particularly effective campaign you can convince the majority of people that some idea is really good even if they haven't thought through all the details and possible ramifications. Remember what I said about people not being able to live their lives and still have time to study all the nuances of governance? When something like this happens the senate was supposed to be a check on the house. When the senators are answerable to the people directly instead of to the states then they go along with popular opinion rather than do their duty to protect the states.
Have you heard of The switch in time that saved nine? During the great depression Franklin Roosevelt implemented the "New Deal" a series of laws and regulations that vastly expanded federal power under the interstate commerce clause. The Supreme court struck down a bit of the new deal which pissed off Roosevelt so since the constitution doesn't dictate that there only be nine justices on the supreme court he proposed adding six more to bring the total to fifteen. The six new justices would be chosen by him and would override the conservative justices that were blocking his usurpation of power. The court compromised to save itself. The new deal turned a bad recession into the great depression and set the precedent for the massively expanded government we have today.

Some relevant quotes:
George Santayana:"Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It"
Much of what's going on today has gone on in the past. We know that Keynesian economics doesn't work because it's been tried in the past and failed. You can't spend your way out of a recession. We know that direct democracies don't work because it's been tried in the past and failed. We know that communism doesn't work because it's been tried in the past and ended in the deaths of millions.
Abraham Lincoln: "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
We know you can can go to a college campus and convince a majority of those you ask, including women, to vote to end Women's suffrage because it's been done.
A good speaker can convince a majority of people to do just about anything even if it's detrimental to their interests as long as he words it right. This is why it's so asinine to choose a leader simply based on his speaking ability. Obama sure does read a teleprompter well though...
Unknown: "When you compromise with evil the only winner is evil"
When you allow them to do it a little bit to keep the peace, it'll keep being a little bit more and a little bit more and a little bit more until you've completely lost what you originally believed in. Some things can be compromised on. Some things can't.


The Outstanding Public Debt as of 14 Aug 2010 is: $ 1 3 , 3 2 4 , 2 7 6 , 9 0 3 , 9 2 7 . 7 8
The estimated population of the United States is 308,925,938
The debt per citizen is $42,979.
The debt per taxpayer is $120,185.

And they want to keep spending.
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Old 08-14-2010, 01:41 PM   #117
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I have absolutely no personal animosity toward Mr. Sinister, we may disagree politically but as he said, in the end we're both Americans.
x2. i think we both agree on the problems we face, but our experiences and perspectives differ. that's just the way it is. there's over 300 million different opinions in our country, not everyone is going to agree.

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